Bus Lanes

[fil4362]

Heres a though for everyone to ponder. Bus lanes, illegal for us to drive in them not illegal for busses to not drive in them, why not ?

My obseravtion is based on a particular road near my house.Its a main commute route into Manchester city centre,but its built up area and has houses both sides of the road. The council saw fit to move the pavement back 4 foot and put in a long parking bay for the residents to park in. They then put a bus lane next to it. The problem is that bus drivers and everyone else to think of it was taught to drive with enough distance from a parked car that anyone in said car could open the door so leave enough room incase they do(thats what i was taught anyway). Because of this "room" left by the busses they are no longer in the bus lane but in the lane left for the cars. So what is the point in spending money to move the curb to create this parking bay and bus lane for busses to then not drive in it.As your not entitled to a parking space outside your own house why bother giving the residents a parking bay at all. If you want a bus lane just put in the bus lane. The bus lane is only about 100 yards long so what the point in the bus lane anyway.

[dave1]

Heres a though for everyone to ponder. Bus lanes, illegal for us to drive in them not illegal for busses to not drive in them, why not ?

My obseravtion is based on a particular road near my house.Its a main commute route into Manchester city centre,but its built up area and has houses both sides of the road. The council saw fit to move the pavement back 4 foot and put in a long parking bay for the residents to park in. They then put a bus lane next to it. The problem is that bus drivers and everyone else to think of it was taught to drive with enough distance from a parked car that anyone in said car could open the door so leave enough room incase they do(thats what i was taught anyway). Because of this "room" left by the busses they are no longer in the bus lane but in the lane left for the cars. So what is the point in spending money to move the curb to create this parking bay and bus lane for busses to then not drive in it.As your not entitled to a parking space outside your own house why bother giving the residents a parking bay at all. If you want a bus lane just put in the bus lane. The bus lane is only about 100 yards long so what the point in the bus lane anyway.

fil, come to Coventry and look at our bus lanes. some are literally no longer than 1 bus and positioned that cars turning left at traffic lights have to try to get across the bus lane without getting hit. Coupled with red routes it is a nightmare at times.

The main problem as I see it: 1/ UK pays "X" amount into EC. 2/ UK then gets a tiny % of "X" back when local authorities apply for funding from EC. 3/ Local planners (non-drivers probably) look at how they can (theoretically) speed the passage of buses to certain destinations and cause massive delays and co2 emissions from the people who cannot use the buses because routes/times/reliability are not right.

Aren't we all so lucky that the EC grants us some of our money back to spend as they dictate.

[ROYT]

They should be renamed 'polution causing lanes', many times you can see ahead the left

turn you want to make, but daren't go into a mostly empty bus lane.

You sit there along with hundreds of others wasting fuel and making polution.

Another stupid idea that failed politicians and the like come up to keep

a fat salary and pension.

They rip us off with fuel tax and so called road tax and then take

away a huge chunk of road that we are paying to drive on!

[fil4362]

They should be renamed 'polution causing lanes', many times you can see ahead the left

turn you want to make, but daren't go into a mostly empty bus lane.

You sit there along with hundreds of others wasting fuel and making polution.

Another stupid idea that failed politicians and the like come up to keep

a fat salary and pension.

They rip us off with fuel tax and so called road tax and then take

away a huge chunk of road that we are paying to drive on!

Well said

[steve2006]

Convicted offenders now have to pay an additional amount to the "victims of crime" fund.

It won't be long before anyone convicted of a motoring offence will have to pay into the "victims of potholes"fund

[fil4362]

Convicted offenders now have to pay an additional amount to the "victims of crime" fund.

It won't be long before anyone convicted of a motoring offence will have to pay into the "victims of potholes"fund

i teach potholing and caving, amongst other things is there a fund for victims lol. I know what you mean just more fund raising isnt it.

[JamesCB]

Just be careful if you're driving around Nottingham. The police regularly set up sneaky traps. Always get loads of customers too ;)

[fil4362]

I dont mind bus lanes so much its just when busses are not in them that it really annoys me. The other one is when it a periodical lane and even otu of hours people wont drive in through fear of a ticket.

[dave1]

I dont mind bus lanes so much its just when busses are not in them that it really annoys me. The other one is when it a periodical lane and even otu of hours people wont drive in through fear of a ticket.

I was in Hull a couple of times last year, not sure which road but it was a very long dual carriageway which I was driving into Hull from north. I thought it was really good as no-one was using the bus lane even though it was "out of hours" during a busy morning. I got a few strange looks and just passed everyone for maybe 2 miles or more because no-one was using it.

[fil4362]

I dont mind bus lanes so much its just when busses are not in them that it really annoys me. The other one is when it a periodical lane and even otu of hours people wont drive in through fear of a ticket.

I was in Hull a couple of times last year, not sure which road but it was a very long dual carriageway which I was driving into Hull from north. I thought it was really good as no-one was using the bus lane even though it was "out of hours" during a busy morning. I got a few strange looks and just passed everyone for maybe 2 miles or more because no-one was using it.

Was the bus lane in the outside lane Dave?. If its on the left,then that would be illegal to pass on the left.

[dave1]

I dont mind bus lanes so much its just when busses are not in them that it really annoys me. The other one is when it a periodical lane and even otu of hours people wont drive in through fear of a ticket.

I was in Hull a couple of times last year, not sure which road but it was a very long dual carriageway which I was driving into Hull from north. I thought it was really good as no-one was using the bus lane even though it was "out of hours" during a busy morning. I got a few strange looks and just passed everyone for maybe 2 miles or more because no-one was using it.

Was the bus lane in the outside lane Dave?. If its on the left,then that would be illegal to pass on the left.

No, the bus lane was on the inside. No it isn't illegal to pass on the left. This is where a lot of problems and holdups/delays occur......some folk just DON'T know the law. If you are on a dual carriageway and the inside lane is moving at a faster pace than the outside lane then it is perfectly permissible to pass on the inside lane provided that you are not jumping from lane to lane. If you don't believe this then you should check the law! Also next time you are on the inside lane in a traffic jam on a dual carriageway, are you going to just "keep pace" with cars in the outer lane if that lane is moving at a slower pace than the inside lane?

[fil4362]

I dont mind bus lanes so much its just when busses are not in them that it really annoys me. The other one is when it a periodical lane and even otu of hours people wont drive in through fear of a ticket.

I was in Hull a couple of times last year, not sure which road but it was a very long dual carriageway which I was driving into Hull from north. I thought it was really good as no-one was using the bus lane even though it was "out of hours" during a busy morning. I got a few strange looks and just passed everyone for maybe 2 miles or more because no-one was using it.

Was the bus lane in the outside lane Dave?. If its on the left,then that would be illegal to pass on the left.

No, the bus lane was on the inside. No it isn't illegal to pass on the left. This is where a lot of problems and holdups/delays occur......some folk just DON'T know the law. If you are on a dual carriageway and the inside lane is moving at a faster pace than the outside lane then it is perfectly permissible to pass on the inside lane provided that you are not jumping from lane to lane. If you don't believe this then you should check the law! Also next time you are on the inside lane in a traffic jam on a dual carriageway, are you going to just "keep pace" with cars in the outer lane if that lane is moving at a slower pace than the inside lane?

If its not illegal to pass on the left why did i get stopped for that very thing only 3 weeks ago??. i was on a dual carriageway posted 50 mph,there was a car in the ouside lane doing about 40 i couldnt work out what he was doing. It was only when i moved into the left lane and passed him, that i saw the copper waiting with his speed camera. I wasnt speeding but he stopped me anyway an told me of for passing on the left,If its not illegal to do then there would have been no cause to stop me at all surely. I didnt get a ticket but the copper said he was within his rights ot do so. So if its not illegal what was he giving me a ticket for??

ADDITIONAL EDIT

My link

It would appearthe government web site would state only over take on the lfet if the vehicle infront is indicating to turn right. A dual carraiage way has a central reservation making it pretty hard to turn right on. I wonder why every one was giving you strange looks??

[dave1]

If its not illegal to pass on the left why did i get stopped for that very thing only 3 weeks ago??. i was on a dual carriageway posted 50 mph,there was a car in the ouside lane doing about 40 i couldnt work out what he was doing. It was only when i moved into the left lane and passed him, that i saw the copper waiting with his speed camera. I wasnt speeding but he stopped me anyway an told me of for passing on the left,If its not illegal to do then there would have been no cause to stop me at all surely. I didnt get a ticket but the copper said he was within his rights ot do so. So if its not illegal what was he giving me a ticket for??

It would appear that you are just VERY UNFORTUNATE. I assume of course that you were in traffic, not just inside laning because of a car sitting in the outside lane? I will check the relevant law when I get round to it but for now look at section 139 of Highway Code........even though you have previousy made it clear that you don't accept the Highway Code as having any legal standing. No doubt you will have some acquaintance in whatever profession who can refute this.

[dave1]

ADDITIONAL EDIT

My link

It would appearthe government web site would state only over take on the lfet if the vehicle infront is indicating to turn right. A dual carraiage way has a central reservation making it pretty hard to turn right on. I wonder why every one was giving you strange looks??

So now you quote the Highway code which you have in previous topics discounted being of no legal standing. Maybe you should have read the next sentence in your link....I have cut and pasted for you.

"only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so"

"stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left"

Dual carriageways do, of course, have a central reservation BUT the majority, especially in urban situations, also have these "cutouts" to enable vehicles to turn right and also, believe it or not traffic lights and roundabouts to enable traffic to enter/leave the road. I am beginning to wonder, with the majority of your responses to various topics, whether you are somewhat obtuse or just like to be provocative.

[fil4362]

No dave i am not being provacative. Your post clearly says you passed everyone for 2 miles or more because no one was using the inside lane. So you was using the inside lane because no one else was. As your post also says it was an "out of hours bus lane" then it mearly is the inside lane. You quite rightly drove in it but in doing so over took everyone on the left. I quote the highway code as i know you yourself use it. So unless everyone for "a 2 mile or more" strech of road was either turning right or driving slower than you, you were infact breaking the rules of the highway code which i know you have used to quote rules before. It would seem very unlikley that every one on a dual carraigeway was traveling at less than the speed limit or you was traveling faster than the speed limit.

[dave1]

It would appear fairly obvious that if I overtook these vehicles then they must have been travelling at a slower speed than I was or it would have been somewhat impossible for me to have done so. The volume of traffic was heavy and also stop/start "bumper to bumper" which wasn't helped by all the plebs who sat in the outside lane so causing extra delays at junctions. The road I was on was a dual carriageway on which the inside lane was mainly a bus lane, between I think it was 07.30 to 09.30. Because no-one seemed to want to use the inside lane it I happily availed myself of it and the only vehicles in it were the odd bus, although I did notice a small n umber of vehicles pulled into it after seeing me in it. I would guess the outside lane was doing 10-20 mph when it was moving whilst I was doing variable in a 40mph limit.

You didn't actually answer as to whether you "inside laned" the car which was doing 40mph because he just sat in the outer lane but from your post it would appear that you did, which would explain why you were warned.

[fil4362]

So from what your saying its the definition of "slower" moving traffic. Its ok to pass on the left if a car is doign 10-15 mph but not if the cars doing 40 in a 50. Hes still traveling slower than me as the highway code say ok to pass ont he left if the right is slower then was i doing anything wrong. If i wasnt doing anything wrong why was i stopped. It shouldnt come down to how slower the outside lane is surely.

I dont have a problem using bus lanes when others dont because they think they are bus lanes. if a car was in the outside lane travelling at 25 mph if i rolled up along side him then he changed into the left lane and hit me whos fault would it be. If it right that its not illegal then he would be at fault surley. I wouldnt have been breaking the highway code either as it ok to pass ont he left if the right lane is moving slower. I only ask as this happens alot to me as i do use bus lanes when they are not bus lanes. Just want some clarification as to if it right or wrong not having a go at anyone just want proof not an opinion.

[dave1]

So from what your saying its the definition of "slower" moving traffic. Its ok to pass on the left if a car is doign 10-15 mph but not if the cars doing 40 in a 50. Hes still traveling slower than me as the highway code say ok to pass ont he left if the right is slower then was i doing anything wrong. If i wasnt doing anything wrong why was i stopped. It shouldnt come down to how slower the outside lane is surely.

It isn't a question of the speed it's HOW you pass on the inside. If there is a car just sitting in the outer lane and you pull to the inside just to get past then it is illegal, although the driver sitting in the outer lane needlessly is also committing an offence. You cannot legally pull to the inside just to pass an irresponsible idiot who blatantly sits in the outer lane.

[dave1]

I dont have a problem using bus lanes when others dont because they think they are bus lanes. if a car was in the outside lane travelling at 25 mph if i rolled up along side him then he changed into the left lane and hit me whos fault would it be. If it right that its not illegal then he would be at fault surley. I wouldnt have been breaking the highway code either as it ok to pass ont he left if the right lane is moving slower. I only ask as this happens alot to me as i do use bus lanes when they are not bus lanes. Just want some clarification as to if it right or wrong not having a go at anyone just want proof not an opinion.

If the lane is out of its designated hours of operation then it is clearly not a bus lane at that time. Again though if you are using the inner lane and the outer lane is not congested then you would be in the wrong. If there is congestion the reasoning for allowing passing on the inside is to ease congestion. Imagine the holdups on a Motorway where the lanes move at different speeds, each lane will have times when it is the faster moving lane. If you were in the inside or middle lane and someone pulled into your lane from the outer lane and hit you then you would blame them I would think. Similarly if a car pulled from the outer lane into you whilst you were in the inner lane then it would be his fault. He would not have checked his mirror. Would there be any doubt in your mind if a car pulled left into a bus lane out of its hours of operation and hit a bus? Also, since buses are allegedly subject to the rules of the road would they not also be breaking the law by using it and passing traffic on the inside. You seem to think that I was wrong to do that so a bus or any other vehicle would surely be wrong also. You seem to be confusing congestion and inside laning. I hope this is of some help to you in clarifying matters.

[Swindon Andy]

The M25 is training people to undertake. When the overhead speed limit signs are on, you are told to stay in lane. The traffic can be quite clear before they turn the signs off. I think the main difference in law is if you change lanes to undertake a car that is not turning right. The bus lane scenario seems to be open to interpretation. It is fun though.

[fil4362]

So its a question of numbers then? if theres a big long line of slow moving vehicles in the outside lane all traveling slowly i can pass them but if its just one who cant be bothered to move over i cant pass him. To save all the confusion shouldnt it be ilegal to drive in any other lane than the left one. If your in the ouside lane for no reason should this be wrong. I constantly end up behind clowns riding the middle lane. If the clown in the middle lane on a motor way is doing 70 and the fool infront of me refuses to speed up to over take but pulls out to overtake, what option do i have but to pass on the left!!. If some idiot sits in the middle lane on a motorway and i drive in the left I have to change lane then change lane again over take then change lane and change lane. Doing this doesnt half look like your serving all over the road, when infact your doing exaclty what your ment to do.

[dave1]

I'm sure we have all had the plebs who sit in the middle or outer lane on a motorway or dual carriageway for no apparent reason. They do it on near empty roads, even when the overhead gantries are illuminated saying "dont hog the middle lane".

They are in fact committing an offence but if you pull from maybe the outside lane to the middle lane to overtake someone who is in the outside lane and won't move then YOU are also committing an offence. The fact that the other motorist is driving in the manner that he is would not alter the fact that you too are acting incorrectly and in a potentially lethal manner because of the speeds which could be involved. From your continued avoidance of the issue where you were warned, I assume that you did in fact "inside lane" the idiot hogging the outside.

[fil4362]

mt point is though What offence. ON the night i was stoped the idiot in the outside lane was chatting on his phone the copper saw this because i asked if he saw it and he replied yes he had thought the driver was on his phone. Yet the copper still stopped me. Maybe it was because i got of at the same junction as the copper either way i would have thought the other guy was commiting the worse of the crimes. I didnt get a ticket and when i told the copper what i had done and i knew it was probably wrong he didnt really say very much of anything to me to be honest. In the same situation again i still wouldnt have a clue what to do. if its a crime to undertake then why didnt i get a ticket ?? if its not a crime then i can do it again. Then again i could have just got lucky and maybe will get a ticket next time. I pretty sure if you was on a road and the guy infront was on his phone yu would want to get past him!!

[dave1]

mt point is though What offence. ON the night i was stoped the idiot in the outside lane was chatting on his phone the copper saw this because i asked if he saw it and he replied yes he had thought the driver was on his phone. Yet the copper still stopped me.

Careless Driving. Driving without reasonable consideration for other road users. Driving without due care and attention.

You could get 3-9 points and be fined up to £5k. You were probably an easier target for the officer who I presume was stationary.

[dave1]

if its a crime to undertake then why didnt i get a ticket ?? if its not a crime then i can do it again. Then again i could have just got lucky and maybe will get a ticket next time. I pretty sure if you was on a road and the guy infront was on his phone yu would want to get past him!!

I would say you were just lucky. Undertaking IS a crime but, as with speeding, if it is a copper then he is human and can show discretion and just give you a verbal warning.

If I was in that situation I would certainly be very dubious about inside laning because if, as you say, he was on his phone then he is quite probably not even aware that you were behind him and is obviously paying scant attention to things around him.