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Jamie, you have problem with the engine. In some situations it is possible to have similar consumption as IS250 but no way that where you have 31mpg the IS250 has 45. In fact, 45 in IS250 is possible only on motorway with 60mph max. In these conditions the IS220d should be around 51mpg.

Owning both models I can say that at 75 mph on motorway both 220 & 250 can achieve around 43mpg.

The 250 only really starts to fall short around town where it drops into the 20's.

In my experience driving both cars on the same journey and style each week I find myself using about 15% more fuel in the 250 and this is mainly due to the town driving part of my journey.

It would be interesting to hear other views from people who own both models.

Carl

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Hi Chaps,

I read this thread with interest and I agree that driving style is relevant, but much of it just doesn't add up in a logical way - the variations are too wide in my opinion!!

Firstly, whilst I only collected my first Lexus yesterday I know - as a self confessed car nut - that Lexus don't make obvious mistakes; such as making a car that is at odds with the gear ratios! The engine was surely one of the most powerful(and torquey) in the class so it could easily deal with high gearing, so if it can't (mine can't) there must be a reason why. From reading other threads it is clear that many cars have required serious engine rebuilds, or even complete replacement. It is no coincidence that those saying they are getting better mpg are predominantly in 2008 cars or newer, which I read elsewhere was the build year that Lexus modifed the engine, and those achieving frankly abysmal mpg are in cars in the 2005 - 2007 age range. As far as i can see, those who have had the engine work state that the mpg/driveability is from another planet.

I have driven many cars and weight is not the issue, as I have driven the W211 E220CDI auto and - this engine is a good comparison (same torque, but a bit less bhp) - achieved much better mpg (about 44 combined) despite it being heavier and having a less efficient auto box. My BMW320d (2005 E46 model) is still much better on fuel, despite having a few issues(suspected wastegate actuator problem and worn injectors) that have seen the combined consumption drop by about 6 mpg. The car doesn't boost properly and there is no power after 3000rpm, yet it can still return 45mpg on a run.

I did about 90 miles on the A1/A1M after collecting my IS220d (2007 - 39,000 miles) yesterday and whilst it seemed o.k on the test drive (local roads and a short burst on the A1 at about 65mph) and in town searching for fuel, it was tiring/frustrating on the motorway and produced a feeble 37.4 mpg despite my best efforts. 6th gear was utterly useless below 80 mph and even at that speed the rear view mirror vibrtaed and the engine sounded gruff and laboured, with no real get up and go. I tried 70 -75 in 5th gear, but the average mpg started to fall below 37 mpg, so I stuck with 80mph and changed down for the hills!

I fear that a few of the cars are not suffering from drivers who cannot drive in an economical fashion, many can't in fairness, but rather the cars are just not performing as they should.

What exactly will Lexus accept before testing your car to see if it needs a heart transplant - is poor fuel consumption and poor motorway performance sufficient, as I want my car checking to see if it is one that has worn prematurely?

Sorry for the long post, but frustration is getting the better of me so much so that I want to hand the car back to the dealer!

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Interesting read, but I must say having read this line below;

Firstly, whilst I only collected my first Lexus yesterday I know - as a self confessed car nut - that Lexus don't make obvious mistakes; such as making a car that is at odds with the gear ratios!

Sadly, Lexus did make a huge mistake with this engine/drive train right from the start. I know too well as I had one myself. If only they had sourced a BMW or Audi power pack it could have been so different.

One question. Do you have the Standard SE or the 'Sport'? I know a couple of locals with the Sport variant and they only get 32 around town and 37 on a run.

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Dromara1974, your story matches mine exactly. My car is a late 2009 facelift model but it behaves just as you describe. I can't believe any manufacturer would deliver a car with a 6th gear that cannot legally be used on UK roads. It's bad enough that 1st is so low and 2nd so tall with a huge gap between them.

If we accept that Lexus would not do this then the car must be at fault. Lexus told me that the fuel consumption was normal. The official figures for this car are 35MPG urban, 55 Extra Urban and 45 combined, I have never seen 45 even on a motorway at 65MPH. My last car a C250 CDI Mercedes would deliver 40+ even if you drove like a hooligan, and mid 50's on a motorway run.

I'm writing to Lexus for an explanation......I won't hold my breath though

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I got an 07 just over 10 days ago ... cleaned the egr Valve completely and instantly got 43 mpg with my type of driving .... that ain't perfect for economy lol .... around town I'm getting 35-37 mpg

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@ Normski - my car is an SE car, though I didn't know that Sport models have different gearing; I thought they were only different from a trim/suspension perspective?

I spoke with a friend to establish how he got on with his 2006 IS220d, which he ran from about 15k to over 100k in three years. He had no problems whatsover and achieved a combined figure of over 40 mpg despite driving it without a thought for economy. He had a long commute on mixed roads - including the notorious snake pass (about 120 miles daily) - and this will have allowed the car to run at a temperature suffcient to prevent carbon build up on the bits that affect the performance. His car was a Lexus demo car, so they will have driven it hard! Sheffield Lexus confirmed that the complaints usually come from second owners, and the cars suffering from poor mpg typically haven't covered many miles per annum(mine!) and were probably not driven sufficiently hard (or in a varied fashion)for lengthy periods.

@ DennisJ - The 2009 car has a number of modifications(detailed somwhere on the forum) and these cars - in the main - tend to perform much better, however, I believe your car will have a fault or just needs a measured thrashing.

I was told that my car was probably on the way to suffering more serious faults, but this could potentially be reversed if I drove it hard enough to (naturally) burn-off the suspected carbon build up. I know that Mercedes techinicians did this and other forums also suggest it, so I took the M1 back from Sheffield and didn't go above 4th gear as advised - keeping it at a constant 3000 - 3500 rpm whenever possible. Result - mpg initially fell from the 37. 2 mpg average, achieved on the way there using the 'driving Miss Daisy' style, to about 35.8 mpg and then started to increase (at 3500rpm remember) back up to 37.7mpg before I reached the town traffic. I reset the trip and did six miles through town and around one of the villages nearby (hilly on both counts), which yielded 34.9 mpg - I was actually really pleasd with that, as it did about 24 mpg on a 3 mile town trip on Saturday( not in stop-start traffic)!

Perhaps there is light at the end of the tunnel, despite the speeds in 4th seeming vicious - now for the additives mentioned elsewhere on the forum and an egr check tomorrow! Then a bit more higher rev (cleansing) driving before an economy check on a longer run.

I suspect that the Lexus, like Mercedes, has the ability to adapt to a learned driving style, which is not a good attribute. I did some development/competitor testing for Mercedes and the engine specialist that I spoke with said that it isn't just the gearbox that adapts to driving styles, but the engines do too.

If you choose to thrash your own car, please don't blame me if it goes bang! It was unofficial Lexus advice that I decided to try!

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You are right to say that they need to be doing good sized journeys, especially in the winter. Gotta get that engine hot. Give it a good belt along a m-way and get that 5th injector all working well. If you have small miles from previous owner then I would suspect carbon build up could be an issue waiting to happen.

Read the thread "Problems Headed off at the Pass?" Feel it would be worth investing in a tin or three of BG244 and start using Archoil AR6400 at each fill up. Its only pence with 50 litres of fuel. Mine was a 2007 model with about 116,000 on it at present. Touch wood going well for my son. But I am monitoring the EGR myself for him. Its dead easy to clean yourself...takes about 40 mins. My Head Gasket went at 106,000 or so. Had a full rebuild under extended warranty.

I now put a tin of BG244 in each 8,000 miles and gave him my tub of Archoil to use at each fill up. He's doing 30K miles a year which helps.

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Sadly, Lexus did make a huge mistake with this engine/drive train right from the start. I know too well as I had one myself. If only they had sourced a BMW or Audi power pack it could have been so different.

Now I don't understand. You do not know, that current 2.0tdi is the worst 2 litre diesel engine these days from reliability point of view? And not only from owners complaints, but this is conclusion of many tests, including 100.000km test of ADAC (respected german agency).

So either you are joking, or telling something about you do not have a clue.

However regarding bmw, your dreams will come true, as toyota and bmw have agreed, that toyota will provide hybrid technology to bmw and bmw will provide diesel technology for toyota.

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I have owned both BMW e46 and e90 diesels and like the Lexus diesel they all suffer from the dreaded carbon build up due to the EGR's that are fitted. I think these do more harm than good.

They need to find a better technology that cleans itself better.

Carl

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Sadly, Lexus did make a huge mistake with this engine/drive train right from the start. I know too well as I had one myself. If only they had sourced a BMW or Audi power pack it could have been so different.

Now I don't understand. You do not know, that current 2.0tdi is the worst 2 litre diesel engine these days from reliability point of view? And not only from owners complaints, but this is conclusion of many tests, including 100.000km test of ADAC (respected german agency).

So either you are joking, or telling something about you do not have a clue.

However regarding bmw, your dreams will come true, as toyota and bmw have agreed, that toyota will provide hybrid technology to bmw and bmw will provide diesel technology for toyota.

I think as an owner of a 220d I am perfectly entitled to my opinions based upon my own experiences and what other Lexus Diesel drivers have said to me. The two combined give you an inkling that things are really not quite right with this car as designed by Lexus.

Fact... the incidence of Head Gasket failures is now widely documented.

Fact... i have not found anyone who can honestly say the gearbox is anything else than clunky/notchy and in no way smooth.

Fact... the gear ratios are strange.

Fact.... 6th gear is pretty much unuseable in the UK.

In my opinion Lexus got this car completely wrong from day one. I don't know where you are coming from regarding 'worst ever diesel engine'.

All i said was, Lexus made a huge mistake with this car from the start.

If you have opted to modify/remove certain components from your car then that is your right to do so. If I had done that any warranty would have been voided with immediate effect. I read many accounts on this forum where people are removing this and that to get the car working well. I sincerely hope this gives longevity to the life of car and resolves some issues.

Kind of tells you something ain't right in the first place though does it not?

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I repeat what I wrote: 2.0 tdi is from reliability point of view the worst engine nowadays and the fact, that some DCAT engines have problems with head gasket or egr does not affect this statement. You expressed a hope, that lexus should have used audi engines - so I wanted to wake you up. Thanks god lexus haven't done it.

BTW gearbox has nothing to do with the engine reliability.

If the gearbox does not suit you, you should have not bought this car as I believe buying the car was your own decision. If your decision was wrong, do not blame the car but yourself.

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I did NOT say or imply the gearbox was anything to do with the engine reliability..it is just another compromising factor.

You are quite right to say the purchase is my decision. But there are some very unscrupulous dealers out there who are clever at disguising things. Another notch on the learning curve for me.

Ironically, I was one of the few who got pretty good mpg from my 220 during my ownership.

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Update;

I thought I was on an upward curve and even managed to get an average of 41.8mpg after an 84 mile (mainly) motorway run (I had disconnected my Battery for a few hours), but no the car has actually got much worse - it is so frustrating, as it is costing me money to do business miles!!

After the hight point I then watched my average mpg drop to around 37.8 mpg after a combination of further out-of-town runs, and then a couple of short trundling to work days (only 8 miles).I then added the BG 244 treatment and thought my problem would be solved. Well, the treated tank achieved 36.9 mpg, despite mainly motorway/ A road driving at no more than 75 mph. I added the AR640 and after the first 128 miles (more than half of which was on motorways or A roads once again) my tank average is now running at 32.8MPG, and I only managed 34.1mpg after a steady 65 miles on the motorway. The computer is saying I'l get about 460 from this tank!!

Frankly, this is just complete and utter pants!!

Some observations;

My car either runs o.k and goes quite well if you give it a fair amount of throttle, or you can feel that it is on the throttle and has the torque you would expect. When it has run well and achieved good figures, it will pull 3rd gear around roundabouts and 70mph in 6th gear - it also feels effortless and really goes if you do give it the beans (pulling well from about 1400rpm)! Mostly, however, you can feel that it doesn't run too well on a light throttle and you can make it choke, whereby when you feel the kick is not there you can then push the throttle and it will rev in a linear fashion without any major push - much like a petrol.

I haven't checked my EGR , as I hoped the fuel treatments would clean this (and all the other bits they purport to clean ) gradually. I believe that the problem is elsewhere, as sometimes it seems to clear itself after it has idled in traffic - my BMW disliked this - and other times you can feel it come back on the throttle when you're going at a steady speed of say 40mph in 3rd gear, or 55mph in 4th gear.

I haven't read (thus far) that there are major turbo problems with the IS220d, or many issues relating to the MAF/MAP for that matter, but I wonder whether it is potentially one of these items and the main problem is that the car manages to run well enough for most owners to just carry on regardless - with poor fuel consumption being the main issue! Usually, when these items are faulty in other diesels they tend to run very poorly, so it is very noticeable. My BMW has a sticky actuator for quite a while (happened rarely to begin with over 35k, but steadily got worse) and I wonder if my IS220d has the same fault, as it just doesn't seem to be boosting correctly for the majority of the time. On e46 3 series the actuator is mechnical and is difficult to check, whereas the 2005 onwards(e90) 3 series has an electric system - I understand this can be checked/activated when the engine is off. What system does the IS220d use - does anyone know?

As a side note, we treated my wife's 2007 Golf gti to the AR 6400 (and then the AR6200), and yes you can feel the difference. The fuel consumption has gone up to a 30.4mpg average, but more importantly it has improved in 400 miles of local driving more so than it did in 600 miles of motorway driving before the treatments. My wife has achieved just under 36mpg during her 18 mile commute on B roads/urban roads , even allowing for rush hour traffic. I get less mpg and my car feels fairly gutless, whereas her car is now straining at the leash - the throttle response is incredible now!

Any thoughts would be most welcome!!

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If you have not had the EGR cleaned before I would urge you to check it out for piece of mind. It is quite simple to do. There are many threads on this forum explaining how to do it. I'm not saying this is your problem but it would be wise to clean it anyway to avoid other sooting problems.

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what he said ... defo worth cleaning the egr valve .... I did and got 8 mpg more than I was ... and my egr valve wasn't as bad as others I've seen

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A bit of an update

After following Normski's advice on the BG244 I purchased a can and added it to a tank of fuel. I then drove the car using lower gears than usual changing up between 3 and 4000 revs and giving it a good thrashing (once fully warmed up of course). After that I filed up with Shell V Power Diesel and oh my what a difference.

The car will now hold 70-75MPH in 6th and only slightly grumble on steep inclines. The tank average has gone up from 32-34 MPG to 40 and now today 43MPG. This suggests the car is actually doing somewhat better than that on the motorway.

I will continue to use the BG244 perhaps 2 or 3 times a year and use V Power diesel. It may be more expensive but the difference makes it worthwhile.

Once I've used the next can of BG244 I'll check the EGR valve as it was only cleaned out a few weeks ago.

Big thanks to Normski

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Glad to hear it helped.

Keep an eye on the EGR every 8000 miles or so, It depends on mileage per year.

You could also try AR6200 fuel additive. Can't remember exactly the costing but I think maybe it was 60p per tank full. I found it quite effective.

Personally, unless you are on the autobahn doing 95mph, I found 6th gear a waste of time. 5th gear was just fine. Using cruise control and doing about 72mph in 5th gear, I got 53mpg driving home from Scotland.

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Glad to hear it worked for you Dennis - was the main difference following the cleaning of the EGR and then further improvements after the fuel treatments?

I've just completed my first tank on the AR6200 fuel additive(following the BG244 treatment) and despite some 250 miles of motorway driving, I achieved an average of 32.5 mpg (tank brim calculation). I've just bought some shares in BP!

I'm really struggling to reconcile that my car got better, and then much worse after adding the BG/AR fuel treatments. I will check my EGR when I get chance, but I'm not sure it is the cause as logic tells me that my car wouldn't get better and then deteriorate as the EGR wouldn't have become unblocked and then blocked whilst using tretamentsdesigned to clean it - or am I missing a trick? My car seldom pulls well and really requires a good prod on the throttle to get some urge from it! Sometimes it feels like the turbo is scarcely boosting at all.

I did the check in 5th at about 72 mph using the cruise control, and the computer mpg meter hovered at just below 30mpg, or just above.

It is disappointing, as aside from the numerous rattles, the judder when setting off, the poor gear change, the odd ride quality and the jitter through the steering rack over bumps(particularly over cobbles at walking pace), I actually quite like it!

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I think it was a combination of all 3 and a change in the way I drove around the foibles of the car. Just to complete the picture, if I do short journeys of up to 20 miles of mixed driving I will struggle to better 34 MPG.

On all journeys change up as quickly as you can, don't be tempted to push the throttle pedal through it's natural stiff point. If you do you get the benefit of the performance but you pay heavily on fuel.

I have found 2 choices with 6th gear; change up and run at 65 MPH around 14-1500 RPM or wait until 75MPH. If you try to use it in between the revs fall into the flat spot of the engine (around 17 - 1800 RPM) and the car struggles a bit.

Always try to run down hills off the throttle and don't labour the car uphill.

I tried using 5th gear at 70MPH, it works fine, the car is very responsive but the fuel consumption is heavy.

Best results in all gears for maximum economy seems to be change up by 2000rpm and run the car at or below 1500.

It's very hard to drive like this and sometimes I can't resist using the performance :whistling:

The car is very different to its German competition. I don't compare it any more I just enjoy it for what it is, a stylish, comfortable, well equipped cruiser that's not an obvious choice.

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i have a sc 430 and have just put fuel saver magnets on it gone from 19 ave to 24,4 my wifes type s civic 2.2 tdci last 3 yrs returned 34-6 ave now with fuel savers 54 mpg and not going over 2000 revs ....

What does this guy mean by fuel saver magnets. And where can i get some.

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Further update;

After a number of fuel treatments and a 6 month learning curve I have now cracked the way to drive this car to achieve acceptable MPG.

For the last month or so I have averaged almost 47MPG in mixed driving.

You need to understand that 6th gear is a cruising gear which you can select at 60MPH and just cruise. Acceleration in 6th is pedestrian, but accept that and you will reap dividends.

The only thing I would add is that had I driven my German marques like this I would be achieving 55MPG easily.

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The easiest way to increase mileage is to drive further.... Its not rocket science.....

What some may want to do is increase the miles they get for each litre of fuel. In that case they need to drive slower or take some weight of the car. Or don't accelerate so hard.

Increasing 'mileage' isn't a problem or even something people would aspire to.

Get it ?

I find those who go on about MPG to be incredibly boring. Buy a diesel, don't overtake, leave the kids at home, act like your brain dead whatever.

I have a 430sc and it will do 30 mpg. What more do you want ???

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Perhaps you are reading the wrong topics then alphacat, sorry we are boring you.

The IS 220 diesel is incredibly difficult to drive economically and many people have issues getting what they perceive as reasonable mileage from this model.

I've found that with previous diesels from Mercedes or BMW you can drive them without any thought to fuel saving and get a good return. Not so this car.

My weekend car is a 2.8 petrol 6 cylinder BMW roadster so fuel economy overall isn't a consideration for driving that.

If you don't want to be helpful or informative then don't waste your time on boring topics.

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