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Why Do We Let Insurance Companies Get Away With It?


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When insuring your car it gets to the thorny question of value and the figure you put is accepted by the insurance in the amount you pay for your premium. ie Value declared £2500 Premium £300, same car Value declared £10000 Premium £750.

I know there are alot of other criteria which are taken into consideration but the larger the value of the car the more premium you pay.

The very next day sadly you are involved in an accident and settlement time comes when suddenly the car which the insurance company offer you is worth but a tiny fraction of what your car was valued at and accepted by the insurance company at time of buying the policy.

I know protracted negotiations then take place but its very rare you ever get back what you declared the car was worth and what the insurance company accepted it was worth when you first took out the Insurance by size of premium.

I know there are policies with assured values for which you pay extra but shouldn't every policy be that?

Insurance companies are quick to find a loophole which allows them a get out of paying anything when claim time comes but are quite happy to accept your car is worth what ever value you put down with the size of the premium they charge but suddenly do not accept your car is worth the value declared and accepted.

I have always felt this is Fraud and Theft on behalf of the insurance companies and should not be allowed to continue.

Mike.

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When insuring your car it gets to the thorny question of value and the figure you put is accepted by the insurance in the amount you pay for your premium. ie Value declared £2500 Premium £300, same car Value declared £10000 Premium £750.

I know there are alot of other criteria which are taken into consideration but the larger the value of the car the more premium you pay.

The very next day sadly you are involved in an accident and settlement time comes when suddenly the car which the insurance company offer you is worth but a tiny fraction of what your car was valued at and accepted by the insurance company at time of buying the policy.

I know protracted negotiations then take place but its very rare you ever get back what you declared the car was worth and what the insurance company accepted it was worth when you first took out the Insurance by size of premium.

I know there are policies with assured values for which you pay extra but shouldn't every policy be that?

Insurance companies are quick to find a loophole which allows them a get out of paying anything when claim time comes but are quite happy to accept your car is worth what ever value you put down with the size of the premium they charge but suddenly do not accept your car is worth the value declared and accepted.

I have always felt this is Fraud and Theft on behalf of the insurance companies and should not be allowed to continue.

Mike.

I totally agree, but what do we do? Unfortunately it's not like other services which we can boycott, we have to have insurance.

It's no different to some courtesy cars they provide. My brother recently had his 11 year old Volvo hit by a lorry, the repair, although only a wing and a bumper, took two and a half weeks. Because he needed an estate they provoded him with a new V70 twin turbo!

Who pays for that in the long run?

I'm afraid the insurance companies have us by those short spiral type things.

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Nice post to read. I work for an insurance company based in south wales and i am actualy a senior manager on the total loss team.

My job ( well my old job and now my teams job) is to place a value on a vehicle using the glasses guide as a guide price which all insurance companies will use as its supported by the FOS and settle that case. we are fair and make sure we have evidence to support our values

ALL insurance companies though will have a "market value police" so what ever you value your vehicle at when you take out the policy will not make a difference. you could value your £4000 is200 at £1500 aslong as the market is showing it at £4000 to buy you will get £4000 back if you wrote it off.

my best advice is just when you make a claim do your research and if anyone wants help with values email me and ill take some details and get back to you.

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Nice post to read. I work for an insurance company based in south wales and i am actualy a senior manager on the total loss team.

My job ( well my old job and now my teams job) is to place a value on a vehicle using the glasses guide as a guide price which all insurance companies will use as its supported by the FOS and settle that case. we are fair and make sure we have evidence to support our values

ALL insurance companies though will have a "market value police" so what ever you value your vehicle at when you take out the policy will not make a difference. you could value your £4000 is200 at £1500 aslong as the market is showing it at £4000 to buy you will get £4000 back if you wrote it off.

my best advice is just when you make a claim do your research and if anyone wants help with values email me and ill take some details and get back to you.

I Hear what you have written but it still does not answer while your happy to accept a car is worth X at point of insurance sale the very next day the car is not worth anything like what you the insurance company have accepted the car to be worth 24 hrs earlier at point of Policy sale.

If as you say cars are only worth what the trade guide Glasses guide say it is then this should be put right by the insurance company at the point you sell us the policy and not when claims arise.

A car is worth what you paid for it which is far removed from what the Glasses guide says it is worth. Dont forget the Glasses guide is published for the trade and not for the public.

If we can show you an invoice for the amount paid for the car then that is what it is worth.

Also as The Acre has posted Insurance companies are more than happy to shell out hundreds and sometimes thousands to car hire companies without so much as a wimper but start moaning and penny pinching like mad as to how much they pay us for our cars with values they were more than happy to accept earlier at POS

Mike

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This is a thorny subject I know from a recent experience.

My late Mk2 LS400 1994 M reg write-off, insured with SAGA, started at £1400 and ended up paying me £2k (less £100 xcs ).

And coz it's a vandalism claim doesn't impact upon my Protected No Claims Discount either and more importantly , NOT counted as a claim against me for future premiums.

I argued my case and they paid, which enabled me to buy ACLexs 1995 Mk3 without demur ...... another dream machine !

However, with my 1932 Triumph Southern Cross Sports Tourer, I have paid the premium with which, whomsoever I went to, came out the same quote, all bar about 30 pence ! There must be a very restricted market at Lloyds Underwriters for this risk.

I insured this with the NFU ( for the 4th. year ) and we again agreed that the value the insurers and I would now place upon the vehicle was so adrift that we would just argue the toss IF a claim ever arose that they thought would write this car off.

Hopefully it never will have a claim but there you are, insurance and unvalued until the claim time arrives.

One would end up arguing the toss anyway I feel, even with an " agreed " value at the outset !

Malc

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Nice post to read. I work for an insurance company based in south wales and i am actualy a senior manager on the total loss team.

My job ( well my old job and now my teams job) is to place a value on a vehicle using the glasses guide as a guide price which all insurance companies will use as its supported by the FOS and settle that case. we are fair and make sure we have evidence to support our values

ALL insurance companies though will have a "market value police" so what ever you value your vehicle at when you take out the policy will not make a difference. you could value your £4000 is200 at £1500 aslong as the market is showing it at £4000 to buy you will get £4000 back if you wrote it off.

my best advice is just when you make a claim do your research and if anyone wants help with values email me and ill take some details and get back to you.

I Hear what you have written but it still does not answer while your happy to accept a car is worth X at point of insurance sale the very next day the car is not worth anything like what you the insurance company have accepted the car to be worth 24 hrs earlier at point of Policy sale.

If as you say cars are only worth what the trade guide Glasses guide say it is then this should be put right by the insurance company at the point you sell us the policy and not when claims arise.

A car is worth what you paid for it which is far removed from what the Glasses guide says it is worth. Dont forget the Glasses guide is published for the trade and not for the public.

If we can show you an invoice for the amount paid for the car then that is what it is worth.

Also as The Acre has posted Insurance companies are more than happy to shell out hundreds and sometimes thousands to car hire companies without so much as a wimper but start moaning and penny pinching like mad as to how much they pay us for our cars with values they were more than happy to accept earlier at POS

Mike

i understand what you are saying. the insurance company i work for dont agree values - and values on on policy will only affect premiums if the car is worth £17000 +, all insurance companines are different and what you mentioned thats a more of a agreed value policy and there are specialist insurance companines out there that do that. we use the glass guide as a "guide" the name says it its self, we do a market value policy so we will look at the current market to see what you can replace your vehicle for. if you purchasded your vehicle say july 2010 for £4000 and then july 20114 make a claim, as the customer you have to proof that your vehicle is still worth what you paid for it, so its important which im sure most of you do keep all receipts for any work you do on the car even as little as tyres or breaks as this shows you are maintaining the condition of the vehicle, now there a cases where you buy a shed and spend 1000s making it better if thats the case if you have paper work to prove the work you done then we would pay you more than what you paid for the vehicle. i dont like insurance from a paying customer view but i guess i have the upper hand as i know how it works.

like i said though the company i work for dont have agreed values and all it does is helps us to establish what level of cover a customer should have as anything over £5k has to have fully comp.

if you agree a value on the vehicle they have to pay the agreed amount.

we are starting classic insurance on july 25th and we will ask for 5 photos of the vehicle and engineers report to confirm the condition and agree a value - if you made a claim you will get back the agreed value and that with any insurance company.

if anyone has problems though with theres let me know be more than happy to help you.

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This is an interesting thread that I've often wondered about as well, if they charge you different premiums according to the value of car you put in, then surely it should be valued to that amount and not market value.

If it is purely based on market value, then you should not be asked what the value of the car is, or the premium should not change based on the value as that should automatically be decided based on the actual car.

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if I wrote mine off, regardless of value or figures declared or actually paid for the car, i'd simply expect to be able to replace it with the same model/spec, without any further cost (apart from the obvious excess, increase for future premiums if i was at fault)

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Nice post to read. I work for an insurance company based in south wales and i am actualy a senior manager on the total loss team.

My job ( well my old job and now my teams job) is to place a value on a vehicle using the glasses guide as a guide price which all insurance companies will use as its supported by the FOS and settle that case. we are fair and make sure we have evidence to support our values

ALL insurance companies though will have a "market value police" so what ever you value your vehicle at when you take out the policy will not make a difference. you could value your £4000 is200 at £1500 aslong as the market is showing it at £4000 to buy you will get £4000 back if you wrote it off.

my best advice is just when you make a claim do your research and if anyone wants help with values email me and ill take some details and get back to you.

I Hear what you have written but it still does not answer while your happy to accept a car is worth X at point of insurance sale the very next day the car is not worth anything like what you the insurance company have accepted the car to be worth 24 hrs earlier at point of Policy sale.

If as you say cars are only worth what the trade guide Glasses guide say it is then this should be put right by the insurance company at the point you sell us the policy and not when claims arise.

A car is worth what you paid for it which is far removed from what the Glasses guide says it is worth. Dont forget the Glasses guide is published for the trade and not for the public.

If we can show you an invoice for the amount paid for the car then that is what it is worth.

Also as The Acre has posted Insurance companies are more than happy to shell out hundreds and sometimes thousands to car hire companies without so much as a wimper but start moaning and penny pinching like mad as to how much they pay us for our cars with values they were more than happy to accept earlier at POS

Mike

i understand what you are saying. the insurance company i work for dont agree values - and values on on policy will only affect premiums if the car is worth £17000 +, all insurance companines are different and what you mentioned thats a more of a agreed value policy and there are specialist insurance companines out there that do that. we use the glass guide as a "guide" the name says it its self, we do a market value policy so we will look at the current market to see what you can replace your vehicle for. if you purchasded your vehicle say july 2010 for £4000 and then july 20114 make a claim, as the customer you have to proof that your vehicle is still worth what you paid for it, so its important which im sure most of you do keep all receipts for any work you do on the car even as little as tyres or breaks as this shows you are maintaining the condition of the vehicle, now there a cases where you buy a shed and spend 1000s making it better if thats the case if you have paper work to prove the work you done then we would pay you more than what you paid for the vehicle. i dont like insurance from a paying customer view but i guess i have the upper hand as i know how it works.

like i said though the company i work for dont have agreed values and all it does is helps us to establish what level of cover a customer should have as anything over £5k has to have fully comp.

if you agree a value on the vehicle they have to pay the agreed amount.

we are starting classic insurance on july 25th and we will ask for 5 photos of the vehicle and engineers report to confirm the condition and agree a value - if you made a claim you will get back the agreed value and that with any insurance company.

if anyone has problems though with theres let me know be more than happy to help you.

Interesting comments.

My car being 18 years old is covered under a classic policy so premium wise I don't do too badly. How much do you expect an engineers report to cost, and who would be classed as an engineer?

Phil

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Interesting comments.

My car being 18 years old is covered under a classic policy so premium wise I don't do too badly. How much do you expect an engineers report to cost, and who would be classed as an engineer?

Phil

Hi Phil,

I'm not sure who this is addressed to?

Mike

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Interesting comments.

My car being 18 years old is covered under a classic policy so premium wise I don't do too badly. How much do you expect an engineers report to cost, and who would be classed as an engineer?

Phil

Hi Phil,

I'm not sure who this is addressed to?

Mike

Hi Mike,

I suppose it's for our insurance friend. I was thinking that if an insurance company want an engineers report on the condition of a car that would usually be done by the likes of the AA which is costly..ish.

The thing with my car is that it doesn't owe me anything, I've had it for 4 years, paid £1500 and nothing has really gone wrong and it still looks great. But it's like I was saying to Sir John, what's it worth to you? And what mine is worth to me would be hard for an insurance company to understand. In fact I'm not even sure I understand what I've just written but I know you lot do!

Phil

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Interesting post - That's why I always do my insurance over the phone and when the person asks me "What value is your vehicle?" I always say "It doesn't matter"

That always gives them the a*se - I say "Look your going to flat rate the vehicle anyway so just put in 'market value' in the value field of your silly software"

They always go into one and say "blah, blah, I have to have a value blah blah blah", so it really doesn't matter what you value your car at, in the event of a TL you will only ever get back market value (unless you have an agreed value policy)

Oh.... I do the same when I trade in my cars in as well. When they start digging out the Glasses Guide and saying "Ahhh, well, yes you see that colour isn't very popular and if it was the one with go-faster purple wheels I could give you £1million pound for it and....." I always just say... "Don't care a jot what you give me for my car... shall we say £1". All I'm interested in the price to change. If they wont give me the discount I want, I walk away no matter how good the car is.

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Interesting comments.

My car being 18 years old is covered under a classic policy so premium wise I don't do too badly. How much do you expect an engineers report to cost, and who would be classed as an engineer?

Phil

Hi phil. there are independent companies out there and they cost around £50-£70 for an engineers report.

if you need one let me know your post code and can put you in touch with a company that may help.

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Interesting comments.

My car being 18 years old is covered under a classic policy so premium wise I don't do too badly. How much do you expect an engineers report to cost, and who would be classed as an engineer?

Phil

Hi phil. there are independent companies out there and they cost around £50-£70 for an engineers report.

if you need one let me know your post code and can put you in touch with a company that may help.

Thanks for that,

At the moment I don't get asked for a report but if I do, you're the man!

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Interesting comments.

My car being 18 years old is covered under a classic policy so premium wise I don't do too badly. How much do you expect an engineers report to cost, and who would be classed as an engineer?

Phil

Hi phil. there are independent companies out there and they cost around £50-£70 for an engineers report.

if you need one let me know your post code and can put you in touch with a company that may help.

Thanks for that,

At the moment I don't get asked for a report but if I do, you're the man!

Other than having it every which way there is no reason for insurance companies to ask you the value of the car in the full knowledge that (except for new cars) they will pay whatever is the lowest market (glass guide or whatever) value they can find. If they were going to be truly honest when you say that your 92 LS400 is worth £25K rather than "Yes, sir/madam" (lol in the background) they should say: "As of today's date the guide tells us it's only worth £1200!" but then they wouldn't be able to charge you.... On the agreed value - my other car (a classic) is insured on an agreed value basis at no extra cost! If there is another explanation I'd love to hear it.

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Interesting comments.

My car being 18 years old is covered under a classic policy so premium wise I don't do too badly. How much do you expect an engineers report to cost, and who would be classed as an engineer?

Phil

Hi phil. there are independent companies out there and they cost around £50-£70 for an engineers report.

if you need one let me know your post code and can put you in touch with a company that may help.

Thanks for that,

At the moment I don't get asked for a report but if I do, you're the man!

Other than having it every which way there is no reason for insurance companies to ask you the value of the car in the full knowledge that (except for new cars) they will pay whatever is the lowest market (glass guide or whatever) value they can find. If they were going to be truly honest when you say that your 92 LS400 is worth £25K rather than "Yes, sir/madam" (lol in the background) they should say: "As of today's date the guide tells us it's only worth £1200!" but then they wouldn't be able to charge you.... On the agreed value - my other car (a classic) is insured on an agreed value basis at no extra cost! If there is another explanation I'd love to hear it.

In the end, like the banks, insurance companies are only interested in themselves. They may come up with all the "We put the customer first" talk but they don't. No offence to our "inside" man but it's true. Of course its a business and its about profit, but a bit more openess and clarity would be good. The other thing I can't understand is how insurance companies vary so much. Last year my premium was about £240 the highest quote was well over £2000! How does that work? And that was without a courtesy car!!

Anyway, at least we know where all the bees are vanishing to...the're under our bonnet! :angry:

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I would fully expect to be able to buy the same car or a car of equal value with whatever sum they gave you after an accident.. but thats not the case... 3 qtrs of the value of the car is all they pay out minus your excess (which can be very high if you wanted a cheaper quote).

I valued mine at £1500 - its a 50k car and cannot be worth anywhere near 500 unless its scrap... if someone were to bump me, i know for sure they would write it off... the labour charges alone would exceed the 3qtr value in most accidents with this car. They'd prob offer 700minus excess which takes the p!ss to be honest.... what could i get for £500? It shouldn't cost you at all if its anothers fault, i'd want that car bringing back up back to the condition it was in the second before the crash, parts paint, labour the lot... if they can pay someone £1200 for 'whiplash' without even having that person properly medically examined with no bias results due to funding, then i want my car fixing as it was.... or a cash sum that would cover the cost of replacing the car with an equal car and insuring it etc.. when you look into it, it would cost me twice the value of my current car to suddenly have to change... and all i'd get is 500 quid.. that shouldn't be allowed..

Insurance Co's have been mastering the art of 'legal fraud' should we say for years now... i've been had over by several since 1992... including holiday ins too....

i had a few accidents in my 1st 3 yrs of driving, 2 were my fault, 3 were others.... most of which ended up 50/50 as they say???? another scam...

I'd like them to explain in detail the reason behind the massive price hikes since i started driving 17 or 18 yrs ago... back then they blamed all the car thieves everywhere.. now they say its all the uninsured drivers..... well excuse me but shouldn't they be made to pay for thier sins when they have an accident..??

and are you sure there really is "all the uninsured drivers" that you say there is?? In todays Britain?? with every police car equipeed with equipment to combat this? plus roadside monitors that take the reg of vehicles entering & leaving most towns & cities in the UK????

are they sure its not just to cover the cost of thier secret friends in the claims dept of the murky financial world... they actually encourage 'victims' of accidents to claim.. is this why so many cases are now 50/50?

Cars are now safer than ever with more & more gaining 5star awards, braking is so different now than the old drum brakes, etc etc etc

Car theft is now minimal compared to when i was growing up...

The doctors we had to go see after an accident... he virtually filled in the words for me.... and that was 1995.. its scandalous.... but all money motivated.. I've heard of 18 year olds being quoted 5000 pounds for a 1.0ltr car... its ridiculous and it needs looking into...

Why have we got to change every year now beause they like new business?? its like they are all scavengers after each others customers, its quite pathetic... shouldn't good business be built on reputation? so what if they dont earn the extra 50 million, they already have 600bn in the bank.... its morally wrong, ethically wrong, a great big scam that needs somebody like Dispatches looking into it.... the ombudsmen just seem to sit there and do nothing (must be on the payroll too)

and i know they are more cars on the road now & possibly more accidents, but shouldn't the influx of new drivers be the influx of extra cash they crave and not every premium being raised every other month followed by lame excuses for it....

It certainly is a can of worms if opened, but it needs looking at... if there is anyone honest left in todays world....

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I just completed a quote with Saga for my IS200 Sport and the on-line submittal had several values for the car, the lowest being 'under £20,000'. Now I don't see the relevance of this as it's probably worth £2000.00 at the most. The values were in increments until it reached 'over £100,000'. Hopefully this means no 'additional' cost included in the policy cost if £20,000?

I also had a quote from LV which was cheaper, so before using the Saga price guarantee (they promise to undercut any like for like quote by at least £1.00), I checked both policies to ensure they really were like for like. The major difference was that European travel was a cost plus option with LV, whereas the Saga fully comp had that included, even though I do not intend to ever take the IS200 to Europe. Fair play to Saga, as they discounted my policy by the LV optional cost for European travel (it's still part of the policy, but no doubt there's a record and if I ever had an accident in say Germany, they'd weasel out of it).

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I here ya Manc, legal it may be, but moral? They ask very few questions when starting a policy but if there's an accident, you can almost hear the pinging sound of the fine tooth comb being unholstered!

I know some people have had some great responses from insurers after accident, but equally I've heard of some companies wriggling like mad to avoid paying a decent amount and only being fair when decent honest claimants ( I know there are dodgy claimants out there too) have fought their corner. Shame on them, and shame on the dodgy claimants who ruin it for the rest of us too!

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I would fully expect to be able to buy the same car or a car of equal value with whatever sum they gave you after an accident.. but thats not the case... 3 qtrs of the value of the car is all they pay out minus your excess (which can be very high if you wanted a cheaper quote).

I valued mine at £1500 - its a 50k car and cannot be worth anywhere near 500 unless its scrap... if someone were to bump me, i know for sure they would write it off... the labour charges alone would exceed the 3qtr value in most accidents with this car. They'd prob offer 700minus excess which takes the p!ss to be honest.... what could i get for £500? It shouldn't cost you at all if its anothers fault, i'd want that car bringing back up back to the condition it was in the second before the crash, parts paint, labour the lot... if they can pay someone £1200 for 'whiplash' without even having that person properly medically examined with no bias results due to funding, then i want my car fixing as it was.... or a cash sum that would cover the cost of replacing the car with an equal car and insuring it etc.. when you look into it, it would cost me twice the value of my current car to suddenly have to change... and all i'd get is 500 quid.. that shouldn't be allowed..

Insurance Co's have been mastering the art of 'legal fraud' should we say for years now... i've been had over by several since 1992... including holiday ins too....

i had a few accidents in my 1st 3 yrs of driving, 2 were my fault, 3 were others.... most of which ended up 50/50 as they say???? another scam...

I'd like them to explain in detail the reason behind the massive price hikes since i started driving 17 or 18 yrs ago... back then they blamed all the car thieves everywhere.. now they say its all the uninsured drivers..... well excuse me but shouldn't they be made to pay for thier sins when they have an accident..??

and are you sure there really is "all the uninsured drivers" that you say there is?? In todays Britain?? with every police car equipeed with equipment to combat this? plus roadside monitors that take the reg of vehicles entering & leaving most towns & cities in the UK????

are they sure its not just to cover the cost of thier secret friends in the claims dept of the murky financial world... they actually encourage 'victims' of accidents to claim.. is this why so many cases are now 50/50?

Cars are now safer than ever with more & more gaining 5star awards, braking is so different now than the old drum brakes, etc etc etc

Car theft is now minimal compared to when i was growing up...

The doctors we had to go see after an accident... he virtually filled in the words for me.... and that was 1995.. its scandalous.... but all money motivated.. I've heard of 18 year olds being quoted 5000 pounds for a 1.0ltr car... its ridiculous and it needs looking into...

Why have we got to change every year now beause they like new business?? its like they are all scavengers after each others customers, its quite patheticernment... shouldn't good business be built on reputation? so what if they dont earn the extra 50 million, they already have 600bn in the bank.... its morally wrong, ethically wrong, a great big scam that needs somebody like Dispatches looking into it.... the ombudsmen just seem to sit there and do nothing (must be on the payroll too)

and i know they are more cars on the road now & possibly more accidents, but shouldn't the influx of new drivers be the influx of extra cash they crave and not every premium being raised every other month followed by lame excuses for it....

It certainly is a can of worms if opened, but it needs looking at... if there is anyone honest left in todays world....

Hi Manc

I hear what you say and agree with it all. Its just legalised theft pure & simple.

We did have a new member on here that was in the insurance game and did add to this thread but he seems to have gone very quiet since the questions have become deeper, if he is still reading this thread I would love to hear some of his answers.

I have always said that if its required by law then it has to be supplied by the Government i.e. Road tax, MOT etc where the Profit element is taken away.

I am convinced that when your car is involved in an accident the declared value is £3000 they get that but keep most of it themselves by offering you miserly amounts. They know that most people dont want a fight and will eventually give up.

Mike

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if someone were to bump me, i know for sure they would write it off... the labour charges alone would exceed the 3qtr value in most accidents with this car. They'd prob offer 700minus excess which takes the p!ss

If someone bumps you and it is their fault then you won't pay any excess. The excess only comes into play if your own insurers pay and not if the other drivers insurance pay.

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if someone were to bump me, i know for sure they would write it off... the labour charges alone would exceed the 3qtr value in most accidents with this car. They'd prob offer 700minus excess which takes the p!ss

If someone bumps you and it is their fault then you won't pay any excess. The excess only comes into play if your own insurers pay and not if the other drivers insurance pay.

Its still down to you to get your excess from the other party and prove you have done so. I know this is normally done through your claim handlers but if you dont they will knock you NCB and up will go your premiums for many years to come.

Mike

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