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Brake Pads


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I have noticed when replacing the caliper slide pins recently that the drivers side brake pads had no wire spring seperators (i dont know the proper description) on the pads. these are the wires that fit into the two holes on each pad. the passenger side has them - i think wneh the pads were changed last these "springs" were not put back on.

Question is - would there be a big difference in not having this wire on one side - they should be there for a reason, granted, but why?

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They should be on but you cannot just buy the springs on their own you would have to buy a complete "pad fitting kit "which includes the shims etc.

I think their main function is to make sure the pads clear the disc when the brakes are released but the cylinder retraction will also do this.

Main thing when servicing these calipers is to check the caliper pins are nice and free as they have a tendency to seize in the caliper. Gently pull them out ( the rubber boot will slip of) then clean them, relubricate them with some moly grease and refit ensuring the boot goes back over the lip.

Also when pushing the pistons back loosen the bleed nipple to prevent a back flow of brake fluid which could damage seals.

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Thanks Steve

On the subject of brakes, i am having issues with a "vibrating/shudderring" steering wheel when braking. There are numerous posts on the site for what could be wrong and the diagnosis, if everything was to be replaced like everyone mentioned, would come into the 1000s of £'s

I have had this problem for a few months and thought i had cured it recently by replacing the slide pins / bushes and dust covers on the calipers but after a short run found that there's been no difference.

This vibration/shudder has come about as follows:

I bought the car (is200) last year in August 2010. I noticed the discs needed replacing as they had had a good life and were worn quite a bit so when they started to go (i presumed they were going as they had the feeling they were warping) i initially changed these for a set from eBay which came with Mintex pads - thinking these were Mintex discs i installed them and they were good for a few 1000 miles but then started giving me problems vibtating when i was braking again. Thinking they were a bad set of discs i bought a set of brembo discs from brembo.

These seemed, again, to stop the vibration under braking but only for a few 1000 miles. The vibrating is back again. I cleaned the calipers down again and checked all pistons were ok which they were but noticed two slide pins were a bit pitted and not sliding easy (one from the passenger side and one from the drivers side) so I ordered a set of new slide pins and having just fitted the pins this weekend and cleaned down all the caliper / braking system there is no change. I am at my wits end with the car - my last option has been to ask for a replacement set of discs as i am thinking it could be whats wrong - a bad set of discs or not bedded in properly?

I am coming to the conclusion that when i have changed the discs in the past the problem has gone away for a few 1000 miles then come back. So thinking about it, when i have changed the discs in both instances and put brand new ones on, i have cleaned down, regreased the pins etc and installed the discs and they have been fine and you would expect everything to be ok as it's clean and as new. This time i have done the same, cleaned down but replaced the pins so these are ok but put my used discs back on which may have? a warp in them?

Work i have done to try and eliminate the fault so far:

Wheels balanced -ok

Tyre pressures checked -ok

brake pads checked - even wear on both passenger and driver side - ok

Caliper pistons checked and both are free and not siezed - ok

Slide pins - two of these were looking a bit dodgy so i have replaced all 4 (passenger and driver side) - ok

Slide pin bushes / dust caps/seals have been replaced - ok

All mating faces from disc to hub and wheel to disc have been cleaned - ok

There is no vibration / shudder under normal driving conditions - only at braking which is leading me to the fact that there should be a problem on the braking side of things.

I am waiting for a replacement set of discs but should i be looking at other parts that could cause the vibration under braking. It definately feels like its the front brakes and i know the rear brakes dont operate fully under braking but should i look at the rear ones also? Would ball joints / bearings etc have any contribution to the problem i am facing (i realise i would notice if the bearings were on their way out but these seem to be ok)

I am at a loss now with the car as to what can be wrong with it - I would rather repair myself as the nearest lexus garage is just under 30 miles away - The car's brilliant, best i have ever had and i want to keep it but my confidence in it over this is slowly going and i am getting a bit fed up with it.

I know it's a lot to put to yourself but if anyone on the forum can help with this i would much appreciate it befor i give up and get a Vauxhall!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I cannot help but if it makes you feel any better, I am in EXACTLY the same situation as you. Mines been like it for five months and gone through an MOT like it, I've kind of accepted it.. It's kinda like a wart - annoying, embarrassing but pretty much harmless, still brakes fine.

I too have new discs too which I will fit when I can be arsed. Have you checked your lower ball joints for play mate? Mine where fine but it's worth a check.

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The wire spring on the top of the brake pads is really to stop the pads rattling about. Mine were missing and used to rattle like crazy going over bumps so I bit the bullet and spent the £97... Yes almost a hundred quid for two wire springs and the pad clips. It stopped the rattling so I guess it was worth it. It is the "Fitting Kit" sold by Lexus. As said before you cannot buy the springs separately.

As for the vibration/shuddering under braking I am a victim of it too, I replaced the discs and pads, cleaned EVERYTHING with a wire brush and brake cleaner, replaced the slide pins which were seized solid and made sure the caliper pistons were moving. Everything has been 100% since.

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Thanks for all the replies

Problem sorted. I popped the caliper pistons out at the weekend (all 4 of them) - none were seized but i think some may have been sticking?. All pistons were spotless so i cleaned them up and re-inserted them into the caliper and bled the brakes. I put a bit of WD40 in the rubber dustcap and left them overnight after testing to see if all the pistons were working. Just done a 10 mile drive and the brakes are spot on.

Saved just under £600 on a set of new ones from Lexus.

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I don't want to p|ss on your bonfire mate - And I really hope you have solved it but bare in mind I've seen a few topics like this and people report replacing the discs etc.. solves it only for it to come back after 500 or so miles.

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Discs have been replaced - with the fact there's no judder now after cleaning the caliper pistons sort of proves that the discs aren't warped and the problem does not lie in anything other than the calipers - i do around 2000 miles per month so will update the post soon as to how it's been - it also feels smoother now with the pistons cleaned.

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Cool mate, please do update yes.

So the old discs you took off, were they warped or just worn?

I might try cleaning my pistons up at the weekend in that case, what's the best way off popping them out without fluid going all over the place?

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Hi dj0nes

To cut a long story short (although this might go on for a while) I had originally replaced the discs on the car as they were worn, with new ones. Then i had the issue with the vibration/judder when braking which could only be described as a warped disc feeling.

I replaced the discs again with brembo ones and the judder was still there.

I spoke to someone at brembo, one of their engineers and he assured me that their discs would not warp which is a big statement to make but they are a very good make and i didn't really think it was the discs. I got really fed up with the problem to be honest and recently gave the calipers a really good clean. Replaced the slide pins but left the rubber seal off the bottom pin as i felt this was causing more friction than anything. Have had no issues with this and the two pins these seals are on now move freely.

Anyway i popped the pistons out as i had the feeling that one was sticking (passenger side). Why did i have this feeling - A while ago when i was first trying to track down the fault i had asked my wife to watch the caliper pistons while i pressed the brake pedal to see if they were moving - she said yes so i automatically thought they were ok. This last time i checked them myself- she pressed the pedal and i had a look at the piston and although they were all moving there was one that would come out about half a centimeter then it would stop. If i pressed the brake pedal harder it would come out.

Hence my diagnosis of a sticky piston.

To get it out i took the caliper off and holding one piston in with a g clamp i pressed the brake pedal until i could just about pull the piston out by hand. I didnt lose too much fluid either as i had the caliper on it's side so the fluid would not run out too much - just dont press the brake pedal with the piston out !

Between the inner seal in the caliper and the outer dust seal on the caliper i lightly rubbed this down with grit paper as it felt a bit rough. I cleaned the piston with IPA and the inner caliper housing with a dry tissue. I pushed the piston home but applied a bit of wd40 at the end of the piston to help it in over the friction of the inner seal (maybe should not have used the wd40 but it was very minimal)I bled the brakes and done the same to the other piston. Bleeding them when ones done helps apply pressure to the other piston and it's easier to get out.

Do the same all round (front calipers) i left the back ones. Finally bleed the whole system after doing the 4th piston. I bled mine in order of rear passenger side / drivers rear passenger / front passenger and finally drivers side.

The whole job took about an hour and a half. Since Sunday this week i have done just over 200 miles no issue. The car feels so different - smooth and "soft" for lack of a better word.

This worked for me as i tracked my problem down to a sticky piston - it may be a different problem on your car but i am glad i done it as if nothing else it has given me an understanding of how the brakes work on these cars. For the time it takes if i was you i would give it a go - if nothing else you can rule out seized or sticking pistons.

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  • 4 weeks later...

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