Rant: Is The Ct200 F Sport The Worst Car Built In The Last 10 Years?

[glynrb]

Let me start by saying that I have owned Lexus cars continuously since 2001 - The first was a new GS300 that I sold in perfect condition after 10 years and 200,000 miles. The current one is an LS430 that I bought with 95,000 miles on it a year ago and which has just had its 130,000 mile service. I have driven models from the whole range when lent a car by Lexus Guildford during servicing, and all of them have been simply great - including the IS whose suspension seems to me to be as good as the BMW 3 series I once owned.

On the LS430's 130,000 mile service, due to an odd set of circumstances I ended up with the loan car for 3 days and about 350 miles. The loan car was a new CT200 F Sport.

I really can't understand the raison d'être for the CT200. I'm still trying to figure out how a car that runs on electricity at low speed can have such a noise at 20 miles/hour, and at 80 miles/hour it's positively deafening - My journey from Gloucester to Guildford actually gave me a headache.

As for the suspension, it's simply awful - It claims to be "sporty". It's NOT. it's just far too hard. I was starting to think "OK, it's not for me, but I expect someone younger would appreciate the better road holding" when I took a corner on the slip road from junction 12a to the Gloucester Business Park. I normally take this corner at about 50 miles/hour in the LS430 if I'm not in a hurry. If I'm in a hurry I take it at about 65 mile/hour. In the CT200 the corner was "exciting" as the car was jumping around due to the hard suspension. Imagine my amazement when I looked at the Speedo and found (and I am not exaggerating) that I was doing 40, repeat 40 miles/hour!

The guys at Lexus pointed out to me that I have spent the last 12 years driving big luxurious cars, and that may have modified my perception. However, in the last year I've hired a 1.6 diesel Golf for a week in Italy and a 1.4 petrol Clio in Spain for week. Both of these cars was far superior to the CT 200 - They were both quiet and comfortable for three people to travel long distances. Although the performance of the Clio wasn't great, the Golf performed amazingly well.

When the CT200 is stationery it's a great car - I just cannot see why it should be ruined by lousy suspension and a total lack of soundproofing. If this was my first experience of a Lexus I wouldn't have bothered to try another.

In fact the only good thing I can think of is that it showed me just how staggeringly good my LS430 is and my GS300 was. - I can't imagine owning anything other than a Lexus, but it certainly won't be a 200!

[steve2006]

Perhaps it is because you are comparing a £22,000 car designed to compete with similar spec Vauxhall, Ford etc offerings to vehicles costing 2-5 times this amount ( the LS600HL is £101,000).

Some things have to suffer like the quality of soundproofing and suspension set ups. ( LS600HL has Air Suspension for example).

I must admit that as a Lexus LS400 driver I thought the CT200 I drove had a "plasticky" interior when I am used to wood trim but mine was a 50K car 18 years ago and the CT200 is a 22K today. I thought the handling was fine for the car it is but obviously this is subjective, at the end of the day it all comes down to what the individual expects from a car but actually gets.

Yourself like me will probably stick to the LS range as that is what we like.

[Tango]

I came to the same conclusion when Lexus Cheltenham gave me a CT200 as a courtesy car. Pity it's got a Lexus badge.

[Steve]

I read somewhere they are going to be putting a 2litre egine in these.. maybe the US market?

1.8 seems gutless and noisey, have to agree there.

[Tango]

The batteries make it a heavy car for it's size which probably makes it difficult to balance economy/power. and shock absortion/noise insulation, but it fails to deliver anything like the usual "Lexus experience". I hope the hybrid successor to the IS250 doesn't suffer in the same way.

[ChrisIS200SportTTE]

I had one on a 48 hour test drive from Lexus Swindon a few months ago. I came to the same conclusion as you and even wrote a post very similar to yours. It didn't go down well with the CT owners but you have to admit its more of a ford focus than it is a Lexus!

[noby76]

I think we are now getting what we(public) asked for.. Lexus was always bashed by the press and public for their cars being setup on the softer side, dull to drive, no connection between driver and the road, and too quiet... they noticed most buyers were flocking to Merc, BMW and Audi show rooms due to the fact that thier cars offered similar luxury equipments but were also 'Sporty' to drive on the limit so my guess will be newer 'Sport' models now offered by Lexus will be or are setup like an F1 car in other words on the very 'hard' side... an example will be my mates BMW 330Ci i have been a passenger and driven his car a couple of times and everytime I get into my IS300 just after driving his mine feels softer and has a coushy feel even tho the IS sits on double wish bone suspesions which are only fitted to Sports cars. I bet the Sport CT200h will feel harder than my IS300 due to the fact that Lexus has now changed thier Sport setups to ride just like the competions Sport models aswell. so you will now hear and feel the road whilst driving.

Your LS430 is more balanced weight distribution wise (almost 50:50) and its rear wheel driven compared to the CT200 sport which is front wheel driven with less torque so it will certainly take corners slower than the LS430 regardless of it having a Sport suspension setup. And you will not get the drive, feel and aura of a 50K car from a 22k car it just wont happen due to the extra 28K going towards engineering the 50K car to give that luxury, quality driving feel.

so in a nut shell you get what you pay for and we(public) are now getting what we asked of Lexus 'Sport' models (harsh unforgiving ride like a BMW)

[Wass]

Yes the CT200 has shortfalls, it doesnt handle like a lotus, it doesnt go like a Bugatti, its not as well finished as other vehicles in the lexus range.

I can afford to put fuel in it, I can afford the insurance, I can afford the road tax and I can afford the servicing bill.It is small enough to park at work with less risk of it sustaining damage, it is comfortable enough for me to commute 17,000 miles a year, despite some peoples observations it is still finished more nicely than the alternative economy hybrids.

Horses for courses. If it doesn't suit you,your expectations or requirements, dont buy one.

Personally, I no longer need a large luxury cruiser and would find a fine handling high powered, superbly finished vehicle with all the associated parking and security dificulties surplus to requirements.

[Exdee]

The CT is a different market. It wouldn't make sense if the owners of the other models fell head over heels in love with it. I do however think it's a lot better when compared to other small hybrid hatchbacks.

We have both a CT and an IS in our household and I prefer the IS myself on most days. However nothing beats the feeling of making a trip to your local train station in EV mode without using the engine and hence any fuel at all.

We have the SE-L version and the suspension is still admittedly stiff but not too bad. The engine noise is normal for a car with a CVT transmission and this time of the year. I think the interior is nice and very well made apart from the console where the stereo is. That bit does feel cheap.

Overall still a great car and serves it purpose well.

[glynrb]

I had one on a 48 hour test drive from Lexus Swindon a few months ago. I came to the same conclusion as you and even wrote a post very similar to yours. It didn't go down well with the CT owners but you have to admit its more of a ford focus than it is a Lexus!

To be honest, my wife has a T registration Ford Focus, and it's a far better car than the CT!

[Wass]

From the comments of owners of the larger Lexus models, the concenus seems to be that larger, more expensive Lexus cars are better than smaller, cheaper Lexus cars. Pretty much as I would expect.

I wouldn't have expected that the owners of such cars could possibly imagine that a smaller , cheaper car could be anywhere near as good as the larger models. My point is that I compare the CT to the Honda Insight, the Toyota Prius and Auris models and the Vauxhall ampera.

Comparing a CT to any other Lexus is like comparing an LS, IS or GS to a Brabus, they just arent the same machines and do not share the majority of their design parameters.

[noby76]

Comparing a CT to any other Lexus is like comparing an LS, IS or GS to a Brabus, they just arent the same machines and do not share the majority of their design parameters.

mmmh not quiet... Toyota tends to over engineer thier engines and I mean OVER ENGINEER.. the IS300's machine (engine) is as powerful as that of the brabus if turbo'd and tweaked a little bit so car badges aside, thier machining and design parameters are not far apart but i know what you mean a Brabus is a Brabus when speaking in terms of car badging. and why would one compare a CT200h to an LS430.. they belong to two different worlds.

[Exdee]

My point is that I compare the CT to the Honda Insight, the Toyota Prius and Auris models and the Vauxhall ampera.

Exactly! I have driven all these vehicles apart form the ampera and preferred the CT over them. The only car I liked more than the CT was the Honda Civic IMA Hybrid.

[Budgie123]

I've got the F-Sport with all the trimmings demo car from head office, if I bought the basic SE-L model I would have been disappointed but with all the gadgets it's excellent, oh my last car was a remapped 535d touring, expensive to run doing 12k a year 24mpg (country lanes and B roads mostly.

This is my first adventure to Lexus and it delivers what I ask for, 57 mpg, free road tax and only £166 to insurer as my daily drive to work but has the luxury's I want.

With all these savings I now have a e36 M3 convertible in the garage for the weekends, quids in!!!!

[glynrb]

Yes the CT200 has shortfalls, it doesnt handle like a lotus, it doesnt go like a Bugatti, its not as well finished as other vehicles in the lexus range.

I can afford to put fuel in it, I can afford the insurance, I can afford the road tax and I can afford the servicing bill.It is small enough to park at work with less risk of it sustaining damage, it is comfortable enough for me to commute 17,000 miles a year, despite some peoples observations it is still finished more nicely than the alternative economy hybrids.

Horses for courses. If it doesn't suit you,your expectations or requirements, dont buy one.

Personally, I no longer need a large luxury cruiser and would find a fine handling high powered, superbly finished vehicle with all the associated parking and security dificulties surplus to requirements.

I accept that it is unreasonable to compare a £22,000 car with one that cost over £50K new. However, the CT I was driving was a £27,500 car, only a few thousand less than my GS300 bought new in 2001. Also, what shocked me was that the CT was not only inferior to the LS, it was also inferior as a car to a 1.6L Diesel Golf I drove for quite a few hundred miles in Tuscany this year. The Golf had better real world performance, went round corners in a much more orderly manner (and faster) and was relatively quiet when cruising at 140kph.

Further, I recently drove a 1.4L Renault Clio from Alicante to Marbella and the only thing the Clio lost out on to the CT was performance. I have to admit I never ever thought I would enjoy driving a small car like the Clio again, but I did!

So the CT (from my personal point of view) compares very unfavourably with "inferior" cars from Volkwagen and Renault - That, surely, is a damning indictment of a brand new "high quality" car.

Frankly, if you want a "hooligan's" Lexus, I reckon the old GS430 fits the bill. That car goes like stink, holds the road, has a firm but comfortable ride and is very comfortable - I was very tempted by the GS430, and I would have bought one if I had been able to find one in really good condition.

[Silver Arrow]

Drove one, and have to admit I was utterly disappointed. We have a Golf mark 6 which we bought instead, which was cheaper (only £18k new), seems so much more "complete", refined, classy, very well made with a decent sized boot, etc etc.

[peter4285]

The CT 200 H F Sport is what it is, a great car to drive and extremely economical, despite what has been said in this forum it is very well put together. Folks I know admire the design, and I as an owner and driver I just love it - Hybrid RX next I think!!

[SandalsMan]

The CT 200 H F Sport is what it is, a great car to drive and extremely economical, despite what has been said in this forum it is very well put together. Folks I know admire the design, and I as an owner and driver I just love it - Hybrid RX next I think!!

I agree Peter. I just don't recognise or understand many of the comments being made here. I am really very pleased with my CT200h Sport and it does 'exactly what it says on the tin'. Economical both in fuel and running costs, insurance very low, well built and great looks. OK not the fastest car off the lights, but it is a hybrid! The only draw-back is crap Lexus dealerships. The first local dealership didn't seem interested in selling me a car at all, so I went elsewhere. The second dealer handed over the car in an appalling state and dealt with me very poorly in correcting a defect (which should have been obvious pre-delivery) after I took delivery. That's my experience anyhow.

SM

[Silver Arrow]

lol each to their own

[Wass]

My cousin drives a bull dozer professionally and he thought that all lexus cars irrespective of which model they were, quality of build and dealership support would be absolutely the worst ever for the type of motorway work he does! His friend does a lot of driving abroad in Afganistan for her majesties forces and he was of a similar opinion. All Lexus vehicles are absolutely useless when it comes to defending RPG attacks.

As I said... horses for courses. If you look hard enough you will find a way of being negative about anything in an atempt to make yourself feel better. The last time I looked, neither VAG or Ford make economic hybrids and so comparisons with their products dont enter into my thoughts neither do comparisons with other Lexus models.

Value for money speed and acceleration, I have yet to find anything affordable with 4 wheels which compares to a 10 year old £1500 fireblade. :D :D :D

[Rapidone]

The worst car built in the last 10 years. That would be the Kia Picanto, not the latest modle which is thankfully much better, but the previous one.

If you have driven one you will know what I mean.

As for the CT200, I had one for an afternoon. Much preferable to an Auris Hybrid.

Precice steering, sturdy, comfortable. Sound system was fine.

I think the tyre noise is too loud on my GS so I guess the CT never had a chance, above 40mph tyre noise is very noticable.

My final thoughts were, would make a nice shopping trolly, very good round town, can't tell when the engine is running and when it's not. But way too noisy for the motorway.

Considering buying one used next summer, but will have to remember to take speed bumps no faster than 10mph.

[Silver Arrow]

You'll probably find that most hybrids are either in the "love them or hate them" category...

The issue here is that whilst the CT is nice to look at, it isn't great to drive for some people. Whilst others love it. The Prius probably makes the best case - at least it is roomy enough, a better ride and quiet enough. Hence my comment - each to their own.

This is one of those that could run for many pages....lol...