Lpg Conversion

[Bluesman]

Hi Mark Let me jump in here, I have had all my cars for the last 16 years converted to LPG add to that my wifes cars over the same period and I have never had Flash Lube fitted to any of them. Its a scam. All engines have hardened valves seats etc and that is all it was designed for but the more unscroupulas converters will try and mug you to have it fitted. So the answer is No. Mike

[ManicMark]

Hi Mark Let me jump in here, I have had all my cars for the last 16 years converted to LPG add to that my wifes cars over the same period and I have never had Flash Lube fitted to any of them. Its a scam. All engines have hardened valves seats etc and that is all it was designed for but the more unscroupulas converters will try and mug you to have it fitted. So the answer is No. Mike

Hi Mike thats what I said to them My last ls was fine for 60,000 miles & my mate did 140,000 no flash lube.

[graham8370]

My figures are at the poor end of the ranges being quoted above (about 17 round town and 21mpg on a run. I am pretty gentle on the throttle in fact I drive it in snow mode to make sure.

When I did the research it seemed to me that the energy content of LPG was nearer 70% than 80% of petrol. And that fits exactly with the results from my LS430.

If this is true, I worry that the only way the LPG engineers can get better than '30% worse' is to tune it to run lean - which has got to be a bit worrying surely?

Mike

Mike, I'm not sure that driving in snow mode will help with the fuel economy. Snow mode keeps the gearbox in a lower gear so you are, in fact using more acceleration with the car in a lower gear. Try you car in power mode for a week or two, I'm sure your mpg will increase.

Graham.

[Lexmanic]

Hi Mark Let me jump in here, I have had all my cars for the last 16 years converted to LPG add to that my wifes cars over the same period and I have never had Flash Lube fitted to any of them. Its a scam. All engines have hardened valves seats etc and that is all it was designed for but the more unscroupulas converters will try and mug you to have it fitted. So the answer is No. Mike

Hi Mike thats what I said to them My last ls was fine for 60,000 miles & my mate did 140,000 no flash lube.

My LS has had LPG since 2002 done 231.000mls with no flash lube

[Lexmanic]

My figures are at the poor end of the ranges being quoted above (about 17 round town and 21mpg on a run. I am pretty gentle on the throttle in fact I drive it in snow mode to make sure.

When I did the research it seemed to me that the energy content of LPG was nearer 70% than 80% of petrol. And that fits exactly with the results from my LS430.

If this is true, I worry that the only way the LPG engineers can get better than '30% worse' is to tune it to run lean - which has got to be a bit worrying surely?

Mike

Mike, I'm not sure that driving in snow mode will help with the fuel economy. Snow mode keeps the gearbox in a lower gear so you are, in fact using more acceleration with the car in a lower gear. Try you car in power mode for a week or two, I'm sure your mpg will increase.

Graham.

I think you'll find that snow mode means it stays in a higher gear for longer

[brendangeorge]

My figures are at the poor end of the ranges being quoted above (about 17 round town and 21mpg on a run. I am pretty gentle on the throttle in fact I drive it in snow mode to make sure.

When I did the research it seemed to me that the energy content of LPG was nearer 70% than 80% of petrol. And that fits exactly with the results from my LS430.

If this is true, I worry that the only way the LPG engineers can get better than '30% worse' is to tune it to run lean - which has got to be a bit worrying surely?

Mike

Mike, I'm not sure that driving in snow mode will help with the fuel economy. Snow mode keeps the gearbox in a lower gear so you are, in fact using more acceleration with the car in a lower gear. Try you car in power mode for a week or two, I'm sure your mpg will increase.

Graham.

I think you'll find that snow mode means it stays in a higher gear for longer

Snow Mode sets off in 2nd so you don't spin the wheels (reduces the torque) - I expect it half shifts (or less) to keep the torque to the back wheels down. Don'f forget eco mode half shifts i.e. full torque about half throttle - PWR mode is max power shift. The LS 430 will optimise the engine and gear box performace to your driving style and the driving you do. I cannot see you wanting to drag through the gears on the motorway - you want to get up to cruising speed asap and keep rolling. On the other winding the car up and away from traffic lights or round abouts and then jamming on the brakes at the next stoppage will cost you a ton of fuel round town. So Mike is probably benefitting from this very sensible approach.

Mike do you do a lot of motorway/long distance driving and have you tried using the other modes when doing so?

Bren

[mikesands]

sorry - only just picked this up.

Snow mode makes little difference on motorway driving, but about 10% improvement on varied urban driving.

By the way - I suspect this table has been produced by chemists rather than green websites or LPG suppliers and they seem to be suggesting you are always going to be 27% worse off on fuel consumption compared to petrol.

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/fuel_comparison_chart.pdf

Mike

[Keith Bowler]

On the question of LPG conversion, having had quotes from Profess and Leeds LPG I finally got to talk to a chap at Battersea Autogas who gave me a quote for a respectable £1300, not at all bad for a London based company and more convenient for me for future maintenance.

The questions I am left with are:

Is the Levato brand equipment they want to use any good as I have never heard of this company, and

Do I really need 'flashlube' as that adds a further £200 to the bill.

What do the LPG converts think, any opinions/advise appreciated as always.

Out of interest they will position the filler wherever I want it even behind the petrol filler flap, but to save any future issues I think i'll go for the rear bumper location just rearward of the driverside rear mudflap.

Looks like I might get my car gassed this year after all!

[ManicMark]

Hi my last one was converted by Battersea autogas I found them very helpfull, Let them have plenty of time to do the conversion as they are quite busy & you don't want them to rush the job. I had a BRC conversion done & had no issues at all with it. You don't need the flash lube but they are very insistent about fitting it as they had problems with a GS300 in the past.

[Keith Bowler]

They are offering a Levato kit which I had not heard of before till today.

A brief ferret on the net confirms they appear to be a long standing company selling their kit around the world.

Is your LS converted and if so did you not have the flashlube then?

[Bluesman]

On the question of LPG conversion, having had quotes from Profess and Leeds LPG I finally got to talk to a chap at Battersea Autogas who gave me a quote for a respectable £1300, not at all bad for a London based company and more convenient for me for future maintenance.

The questions I am left with are:

Is the Levato brand equipment they want to use any good as I have never heard of this company, and

Do I really need 'flashlube' as that adds a further £200 to the bill.

What do the LPG converts think, any opinions/advise appreciated as always.

Out of interest they will position the filler wherever I want it even behind the petrol filler flap, but to save any future issues I think i'll go for the rear bumper location just rearward of the driverside rear mudflap.

Looks like I might get my car gassed this year after all!

Never heard of that make. Flash Lube is not required on todays modern engines its a con to get more money out of you so if they are suggesting you take this then maybe they arnt that trustworthy. No reputable LPG converter will suggest you need it. Mike

[brendangeorge]

On the question of LPG conversion, having had quotes from Profess and Leeds LPG I finally got to talk to a chap at Battersea Autogas who gave me a quote for a respectable £1300, not at all bad for a London based company and more convenient for me for future maintenance.

The questions I am left with are:

Is the Levato brand equipment they want to use any good as I have never heard of this company, and

Do I really need 'flashlube' as that adds a further £200 to the bill.

What do the LPG converts think, any opinions/advise appreciated as always.

Out of interest they will position the filler wherever I want it even behind the petrol filler flap, but to save any future issues I think i'll go for the rear bumper location just rearward of the driverside rear mudflap.

Looks like I might get my car gassed this year after all!

Hi Keith

I'm glad to see you are going to convert to LPG - a great move that you will not regret. I have my gas filler next to the petrol filler - this is the most convenient place for it. Why do you want to bend down to the back bumper when you fill up? I am fat and old so it is a consideration for me. Also your bumper (or anywhere low down) is the first place to get bumped so you may be putting your filler in a vulnerable place. Also LPG pumps can be a pain to connect so having the hole low down will only add to any

difficulty.

Good luck

Bren

[Lexmanic]

Spoke today to Gas&Go Swindon The chap told me that sometime ago they had a memo from Lexus/Toyota stating that if any of their cars were NOT fitted with flash lube the engine warranty would be voided

The chap also said that before joining Gas&Go he worked for Lexus for a number of years (13 I think)

[Lexmanic]

I took the liberty of asking him to join the club thereby giving him a voice to answer our questions

[Bluesman]

Still no reason to have Flash Lube system fitted. If it was an old type leaded engine then yes it would need it but modern engines just dont require it. I have had mine and my wifes cars converted over the last 16 years and not one of them had a Flash Lube fitted and not one of them faulted because there wasnt a Flash Lube system. When you run an engine on LPG there are non of the nasty contaminents you get with petrol. Mike

[Lexmanic]

Cost of LPG Fuel

LPG actually has a much lower calorific value then petrol, so you will get less miles per gallon out of an LPG car, however in the UK LPG tax levels are much lower than both Diesel and Unleaded so it is still a far more cost effective way to run your car. The tax break is due to evidence that suggests that LPG is better for the environment than the mainstream fuels. This is probably due to it being a very clean burning fuel.

As of 2013 Diesel and Unleaded fuel is taxed at around 64p per litre, compared to only 16.5p/litre for LPG. The tax saving is why LPG is nearly half the price of other fuels at present. Unfortunately this doesn't mean that it is 50% cheaper to run your car on LPG. The decreased calorific value means that you get only 2/3rds as far on a litre of LPG compared to a litre of Unleaded. Still at today's prices that still means that driving on LPG in 2013 is around 25% cheaper in real terms than driving on other fuels

[mikesands]

i think you get a bit further than 2/3 as far Jon but otherwise it's a fair summary. (It's72 hundredths as far)

I would like an answer from the technical types on here as to whether LPG installations can safely be leaned off to give the consumption that others are obviously achieving.

Mike

[Bluesman]

Cost of LPG Fuel

LPG actually has a much lower calorific value then petrol, so you will get less miles per gallon out of an LPG car, however in the UK LPG tax levels are much lower than both Diesel and Unleaded so it is still a far more cost effective way to run your car. The tax break is due to evidence that suggests that LPG is better for the environment than the mainstream fuels. This is probably due to it being a very clean burning fuel.

As of 2013 Diesel and Unleaded fuel is taxed at around 64p per litre, compared to only 16.5p/litre for LPG. The tax saving is why LPG is nearly half the price of other fuels at present. Unfortunately this doesn't mean that it is 50% cheaper to run your car on LPG. The decreased calorific value means that you get only 2/3rds as far on a litre of LPG compared to a litre of Unleaded. Still at today's prices that still means that driving on LPG in 2013 is around 25% cheaper in real terms than driving on other fuels

It does also reflect in the way you drive your car. Meaningful figures are only obtained under strict scientific controls as there are so many variables. The one thing we all agree on is that it is cheaper to run your car on LPG and its also much better for your green credentials as it is a much cleaner fuel to burn for the enviroment and your engine. Mike

[brendangeorge]

i think you get a bit further than 2/3 as far Jon but otherwise it's a fair summary. (It's72 hundredths as far)

I would like an answer from the technical types on here as to whether LPG installations can safely be leaned off to give the consumption that others are obviously achieving.

Mike

Hi Mike

It is more complicated than leaning the mixture a bit - there are commercial ECU remappers who advertise a 20% improvement in fuel economy if you have them work on your car.

I put an external chip (connected to the ODI port) on my car for a few months and it had minimal effect - it just seemed to get hot so I removed it.

Bren

[mikesands]

That somehow doesn't surprise me. I guess if it were possible to save 20% on fuel consumption without risking the engine, Lexus would be doing it

Mike

[Bluesman]

i think you get a bit further than 2/3 as far Jon but otherwise it's a fair summary. (It's72 hundredths as far)

I would like an answer from the technical types on here as to whether LPG installations can safely be leaned off to give the consumption that others are obviously achieving.

Mike

Hi Mike

It is more complicated than leaning the mixture a bit - there are commercial ECU remappers who advertise a 20% improvement in fuel economy if you have them work on your car.

I put an external chip (connected to the ODI port) on my car for a few months and it had minimal effect - it just seemed to get hot so I removed it.

Bren

Hi Bren, I seem to remember one of the main TV channels did a programe reviewing many of these Snake Oil products some time ago and not one of them worked. They came to the conclusion that if it was possible manufacturers would have included it in their building specs years ago. Mike.

[Lexmanic]

I was recently told by a remapping service that to remap my Lexus would be a waste of my money & their time. My diesel BMW was a different matter. They claimed they could improve both MPG & acceleration with the loss of some top end speed 140mph

[Lexmanic]

i think you get a bit further than 2/3 as far Jon but otherwise it's a fair summary. (It's72 hundredths as far)

I would like an answer from the technical types on here as to whether LPG installations can safely be leaned off to give the consumption that others are obviously achieving.

Mike

Hi Mike

It is more complicated than leaning the mixture a bit - there are commercial ECU remappers who advertise a 20% improvement in fuel economy if you have them work on your car.

I put an external chip (connected to the ODI port) on my car for a few months and it had minimal effect - it just seemed to get hot so I removed it.

Bren

Hi Bren, I seem to remember one of the main TV channels did a programe reviewing many of these Snake Oil products some time ago and not one of them worked. They came to the conclusion that if it was possible manufacturers would have included it in their building specs years ago. Mike.

I think you'll find that many manufactures were going to supply new dual fuel cars this included Land Rover who about 6-7years were in talks with government The government, in their wisdom, discouraged the idea because if other manufactures followed suit & it caught on with the public (which it would) it would mean a substantial drop in tax revenue. The only manufacturer who I recall did offer dual fuel was Vauxhall but they have dropped it

[Lexmanic]

The government increasing tax on fuel is ever so short sighted because the increases result in motorists doing as few miles as they can thereby reducing fuel tax revenue.

eg A few years ago in Japan they decided that water meters would be made compulsory After fitting water consumption dropped considerably the result was that water company profits dropped, their solution was to increase the price of water thereby maintaining their profits to shareholders

[Bluesman]

i think you get a bit further than 2/3 as far Jon but otherwise it's a fair summary. (It's72 hundredths as far)

I would like an answer from the technical types on here as to whether LPG installations can safely be leaned off to give the consumption that others are obviously achieving.

Mike

Hi Mike

It is more complicated than leaning the mixture a bit - there are commercial ECU remappers who advertise a 20% improvement in fuel economy if you have them work on your car.

I put an external chip (connected to the ODI port) on my car for a few months and it had minimal effect - it just seemed to get hot so I removed it.

Bren

Hi Bren, I seem to remember one of the main TV channels did a programe reviewing many of these Snake Oil products some time ago and not one of them worked. They came to the conclusion that if it was possible manufacturers would have included it in their building specs years ago. Mike.

I think you'll find that many manufactures were going to supply new dual fuel cars this included Land Rover who about 6-7years were in talks with government The government, in their wisdom, discouraged the idea because if other manufactures followed suit & it caught on with the public (which it would) it would mean a substantial drop in tax revenue. The only manufacturer who I recall did offer dual fuel was Vauxhall but they have dropped it

Volvo & Saab also offered it and you right about the U turn the government did, their loss our gain.

Mike