Would You Send This Car Back?

[mikesands]

Picked up a Lexus approved 2009 67kmiles car yesterday but today discovered that the whole of the passenger side plus both bumpers have been resprayed. Checked this with the dealer and they say they did it because of scratches in the paintwork and it's normal for them to do this, and it definitely hasn't been in an accident. They point out that if I'm not happy with it I can exchange it for another.

They have done quite a good job of spraying it (certainly as far as colour match goes), but there are the tell-tale signs and of course it isn;t as good (smooth) as the factory can get it.

But what about the Lexus 12 year paint warranty and what if I want to sell it to someone other than them in a couple of years time

What would you do?

Mike

[The-Acre]

If it bugs you, as it clearly does, take it back. It's not like you've bought some old banger off eBay. Repainting wouldn't bother me, but not feeling as good as the original paint might.

[Duncan Roberts]

Nothing.

Older cars often need minor resprays simply because of wear and tear so if the colour match is right and their are no curtains or whatever imperfections in the paint get on with life.

New paintwork from an approved workshop has no bearing on a warranty.

[mikesands]

Thanks guys - that's quite comforting. There is one slight run of gel coat on the edge of one door, and the finish is very slightly orange peely but you'd only notice ny comparing it to the original on the other side. I watched the video of them being made in the factory in USA, and it would be amazing if any body shop could duplicate that finish.

I guess they must have done the bonnet too, as there are no stone chips at all. But I can't see the join so they have done a first rate job on that.

Mike

[Lexmanic]

Picked up a Lexus approved 2009 67kmiles car yesterday but today discovered that the whole of the passenger side plus both bumpers have been resprayed. Checked this with the dealer and they say they did it because of scratches in the paintwork and it's normal for them to do this, and it definitely hasn't been in an accident. They point out that if I'm not happy with it I can exchange it for another.

They have done quite a good job of spraying it (certainly as far as colour match goes), but there are the tell-tale signs and of course it isn;t as good (smooth) as the factory can get it.

But what about the Lexus 12 year paint warranty and what if I want to sell it to someone other than them in a couple of years time

What would you do?

Mike

If its noticeable to you it'll be the same with anyone who might buy it in the future. Take up their offer return it also they should have mentioned the respray IMO

[katabrontes]

Firstly I would not have bought form a l

Lexus dealer as they charge you a substantial premium and it seems (from comments on the Forum) that the used car warranty form Lexus is far from as good as many seem to expect. Many exclusions and definitely not worth the substantial premium IMO. I suppose it may depend on the actual dealer.

I would not accept an exchange but would ask for my money back (Sale of Goods Act entitlement). The respray does not sound as if it is up to "Lexis standards" and will definitely be a detriment on resale. If you have the money back you can then start again with a clean sheet rather than be tied to the same dealer for a replacement car (which may take some time to appear - what do you do for a car in the meantime? You will probably have to fight for a refund (maybe even threaten Small Claims Court if its within the limits). Alternative may be requesting help from the local Trading Standards office.

Good luck.

[Duncan Roberts]

Firstly I would not have bought form a l

Lexus dealer as they charge you a substantial premium and it seems (from comments on the Forum) that the used car warranty form Lexus is far from as good as many seem to expect. Many exclusions and definitely not worth the substantial premium IMO. I suppose it may depend on the actual dealer.

I would not accept an exchange but would ask for my money back (Sale of Goods Act entitlement). The respray does not sound as if it is up to "Lexis standards" and will definitely be a detriment on resale. If you have the money back you can then start again with a clean sheet rather than be tied to the same dealer for a replacement car (which may take some time to appear - what do you do for a car in the meantime? You will probably have to fight for a refund (maybe even threaten Small Claims Court if its within the limits). Alternative may be requesting help from the local Trading Standards office.

Good luck.

But is partial respraying something that should be mentioned, I am not convinced, accident yes, minor scratches no?

Why should bodywork repairs be singled out in a way that say a new water pump or whatever would not be?

[The-Acre]

Now it's getting complicated! As I said Mike, if it bugs you take it back, if it doesn't bother you that much I wouldn't worry. If you keep it for a few years it probably won't affect its resale value. My LS (although older) has had some paintwork done but the colour match is excellent and it really doesn't bother me, I expect it after 14 years, it's still a lovely car and looks fab.

Phil

[katabrontes]

The thing you need to remember if you inclined to take it back is that under the Sale of Goods Act you are ONLY entitled to have your money back. If you accept a replacement you then lose your rights to a refund if you are still not happy and, because you did not buy the placement, you may also lose any protection under the Act in respect of any problems which arise with that car. The Acre is right - its getting complicated.

[Lexmanic]

The thing you need to remember if you inclined to take it back is that under the Sale of Goods Act you are ONLY entitled to have your money back. If you accept a replacement you then lose your rights to a refund if you are still not happy and, because you did not buy the placement, you may also lose any protection under the Act in respect of any problems which arise with that car. The Acre is right - its getting complicated.

Sorry to disagree but changing the car will not affect his rights. It merely means the replacement must also be fit for purpose you do not negate your rights by accepting their offer

[katabrontes]

Lexmanic may be right about this but overlooks the advantage of "money back" which gives you a clean re-start and the option to buy elsewhere if you wish with a new contract from scratch and the chance to negotiate better terms based on your experience of the first deal. Accepting a replacement is, in my view, a very poor second.

[Duncan Roberts]

The thing you need to remember if you inclined to take it back is that under the Sale of Goods Act you are ONLY entitled to have your money back. If you accept a replacement you then lose your rights to a refund if you are still not happy and, because you did not buy the placement, you may also lose any protection under the Act in respect of any problems which arise with that car. The Acre is right - its getting complicated.

Sorry to disagree but changing the car will not affect his rights. It merely means the replacement must also be fit for purpose you do not negate your rights by accepting their offer

But it is "fit for purpose".

[mikesands]

You are both right. The problem with Lexus's 30 day exchange programme is that you have probably negotiated some discount off the first purchase, and it's unlikely you are going to be able to do the same on the replacement because they know you have to get it from them.

One poster (Duncan?) got me thinking about why we are so bothered about a respray. I mean we would be delighted if it was supplied with a new exhaust wouldnt we? I guess it's because we are (or at least I am) nervous about being scammed with a car that's been in an accident and either has some underlying damage or is probably not resellable. This is extremely unlikely these days (with HPI) and particularly from a Lexus dealer, so I am simply going to ask for a letter from the dealer stating that they did the respray and why. If I then want to sell the car privately, I can simply show the new purchaser the letter. I think I will also ask them for a letter that says if Lexus ever renege on the 12 year bodywork warranty because of their respray, that they will do the repair work for anyone who owns it at the time.

Thinking through this respray lark a bit further ..... It seems to me a good idea that if you have to have respray work done for any reason you should take pics immediately before and after. For instance someone slid into my LS a few years ago and didn't do much damage but it needed a new front wing and a headlight. If I had taken photos of that damage before it was repaired, it would have been a lot more reassuring to a future purchaser if he was suspecting the car had been in a bad accident.

Mike

[Radoslav Asparuhov]

I had the whole rear bumper resprayed just because of this:

Usually every seller is trying to polish their goods to sell it for more, but it doesn't mean that it's damaged. However i understand your concerns. It is good ideal to ask them for photos before the rework.

[wendle]

If overall you are happy and you got a good deal on the car,
then I would keep it, however did you ask if the car has had any repair work
done before you brought it ?.

If your not happy with the repair work I would ask them to
re do it, all repeatable body shops will give you a 6 year warranty on re spray
work , if your not happy within that time you can take it back.

A friend of mine does smart repairs, around 50% of his work
is on brand new unregistered cars. Ok not full panels, but all the same you can
buy what you think is a brand new, un touched car , with a smart repair.

[Lexmanic]

You are both right. The problem with Lexus's 30 day exchange programme is that you have probably negotiated some discount off the first purchase, and it's unlikely you are going to be able to do the same on the replacement because they know you have to get it from them.

One poster (Duncan?) got me thinking about why we are so bothered about a respray. I mean we would be delighted if it was supplied with a new exhaust wouldnt we? I guess it's because we are (or at least I am) nervous about being scammed with a car that's been in an accident and either has some underlying damage or is probably not resellable. This is extremely unlikely these days (with HPI) and particularly from a Lexus dealer, so I am simply going to ask for a letter from the dealer stating that they did the respray and why. If I then want to sell the car privately, I can simply show the new purchaser the letter. I think I will also ask them for a letter that says if Lexus ever renege on the 12 year bodywork warranty because of their respray, that they will do the repair work for anyone who owns it at the time.

Thinking through this respray lark a bit further ..... It seems to me a good idea that if you have to have respray work done for any reason you should take pics immediately before and after. For instance someone slid into my LS a few years ago and didn't do much damage but it needed a new front wing and a headlight. If I had taken photos of that damage before it was repaired, it would have been a lot more reassuring to a future purchaser if he was suspecting the car had been in a bad accident.

Mike

I'm sorry but again I disagree. If you accept an exchange it should/will be on the same terms as the 1st namely backed by the same 30 day guarantee. Anything else would not put you back to the position you were at the beginning. Also whether or not you obtained a discount is irrelevant, your perfectly at liberty to do so again without penalty. However as has already been advised make sure you dot the i's & cross the T's regarding the paint work that they will honour the warranty AND have them put in writing their reasons for painting it

[katabrontes]

I suspect you would find that if you accepted an exchange the "guarantee period" would include any time used on the first car. In other words you should not expect to have a longer guarantee than was offered with the date of the initial deal. Money back would, however, allow you to start again and get the full guarantee period with the second purchase.

[steve2006]

Blimey must have been some serious scratches to require a full side respray and both bumpers.

[Lexmanic]

I suspect you would find that if you accepted an exchange the "guarantee period" would include any time used on the first car. In other words you should not expect to have a longer guarantee than was offered with the date of the initial deal. Money back would, however, allow you to start again and get the full guarantee period with the second purchase.

If the original contract is terminated, as it will be on return of the car, then any new purchase/replacement will again be subject to a NEW 30 day guarantee AND if they propose otherwise walk away

[katabrontes]

You may be right but I am not quite sure this is constant with your previous condition "would (not) put you back to the position you were at the beginning" If you are right you would end up with more than 30 days guarantee in total which is an improvement on you position when you made the initial deal.

We are in danger of going round in circles here and moving too far awy from the original point!

[Lexmanic]

The Guarantee is not a stand alone product if it were you'd be correct. The guarantee comes with each vehicle supplied. Also as for going off topic its highly relevant that the member understand just what their legal rights are in these circumstances and returning the car for another does not diminish those rights in anyway

[katabrontes]

I don't think that can be right.

The guarantee is an option offered by the seller not an intrinsic part of the article (eg wheels, engine etc) and thus cannot be regarded as an essential part of the replacement vehicle.

In the absence of specific legal knowledge I would suggest that the guarantee does not need to be replaced when the replacement vehicle was accepted but the remaining term of the original guarantee simply transferred to the replacement. It is my understanding that this is the situation when an identical product is exchanged under a guarantee in the case when repair is not possible or the supplier exercises their option to repair or replace in favour of the latter.

On the assumption that the "replacement car" would be the same model and price and thus no further "consideration" would change hands (or possibly a small refund might be made in the case of a less expensive car) it seems to me that no new contract would be created by the exchange.

[Lexmanic]

So according to you the buyer would be worse off if they accepted an 'exchange' ie if they exchanged after 29 days 23 hours they would only have a guarantee lasting 1 hour. Also what if any delay was down to the dealer would that shorten the guarantee period? I think not!

[katabrontes]

Yes that is exactly what I meant and is my understanding of the correct position under the provisions of the Act. In the event that the dealer was responsible for any delay it would be a matter of negotiation. Hence I return to my initial position that it would be far better to ask for the money back and start again. In that situation there can be no doubt or argument and the purchaser would be in a far better position to negotiate. In my opinion its a "no brainer"

[katabrontes]

PS Actually I believe the Lexus used car warranty is for a year..

Anyone who paid the 15-20% premium (over Parker's price for a franchised dealer according to my research) and accepted a 30 day "guarantee" would be very naive.