What Is It Like? Ether Is250 0R Is 300H

[BosniaLexus]

First reviews mixed, as is usual with car mages that are effectively owned by BMW, Ford and MB. They slated the first two IS models. Real experiences of real lexux drivers wanted please. Many members will lurk here seeking info on whether the extra car is worth the extra investment, as trade in on MK 2 is poor. Are they faster. Are they more economical. What toys area missing. Any new toys. Deler discounting. Guarantee and warranty? Is it really worse than the awful BME 30O ED. why we cannot have US 350 and or AWD.

[Ian J. Parsley]

A lot of questions!

I take delivery of my new IS 300h on Monday.

I went for the IS 300h over the 250 for the UK tax benefits.

My immediate impression from the test drive is that Car Buyer has it about right.

Good: comfort, design, options, steering, quietness.

Bad: ride.

I can't comment versus a 2IS because I never had one. My impression is that the 3IS is no faster, but is more comfortable. There are no particular extra options on the 3IS, but there are improvements to the options (advanced sat-nav and so on).

I don't imagine there'll be much discounting right at the start, but there are some decent lease deals out there.

We don't need a 350 or AWD here; there are both unaffordable and uneconomical in menu. The 300h seems plenty fast to me and the 250 is faster still.

[Hippogriff]

I've been an Audi A4 (2 cars) for the last eight years.

I'm currently looking for a new car... it has to be a four door saloon, but I'm not overly concerned with the size itself - what interests me more is the technology platform and the gadgets / toys.

From Audi I'm pondering the A6 Black Edition and will be taking one for an extended test drive next weekend. My head has also been turned by the upcoming A3 Saloon. I don't think I would be interested in a 'new' A4 as it hasn't moved on enough from my 4 year old car. However, I've also taken out a Jaguar XF 2.2d Sport recently and also - a revelation - the Lexus IS 300h F Sport. I did go into a BMW dealer over this weekend, but I wasn't impressed with anything I saw.

The Lexus has really thrown me, I must admit - it's come completely from left-field and I am very taken by it. I am in the process of asking to book an extended test drive.

I did not think the interior was as nice a place to be as any Audi - I will be honest, but it was a pleasant surprise. The seats (heated and ventilated) were really great. The electric adjustment of the seats and steering column and easy entry / exit were fantastic. However, I would say the interior was better than the BMW 3 and 5 I was in yesterday. I would also say (and this is entirely subjective) that it's on a par with the Jaguar XF (which some might be surprised by).

I did not like the gear stick, but that's something I would not be touching that often... I prefer straight back and forwards ones, rather than a slalom type route from P to D. I would never use the flappy paddles.

The test drive was enjoyable. The ride is really firm - and that's from me, who's driven a A4 Sport (notoriously firm) and is currently in an A4 S line (again, quite firm, but not as much as previous generations). I was surprised to hear that AVS can only make the ride firmer!!! I would have hoped for a comfort mode - but maybe you don't buy an F Sport if that's the major concern.

The dial on the F Sport is beautiful. So swish. I loved it. Its movement when it slides across is ace.

The hybrid nature of the car really opened my eyes. I felt it had plenty of power but I realise I was only doing some inner city driving and a little bit on a dual-carriageway, where I didn't have the opportunity to give it some welly. When starting off from standing, it's just eerie... silence! Like a toy.

The voice control would be something I would obviously need to get used to - on the test drive I said "suspend guidance" and she said "find nearest Chinese restaurant" - which got me laughing.

I would like the sat. nav. to be better - it looks a little aged and the colours were garish (maybe there are settings for that). I am interested in Lexus Connected Services as that implies there are better things you can do with that technology - and I need to find out more. Also the Lexus Hotspot is something coming soon, I believe, which I would be interested in. Lastly - I detest-detest-detest the sat. nav. nag screen!

What the heck is that huge analogue clock doing slap-bang in the middle of the dashboard? It's really anachronistic.

I was not pleased with the fact the key-less entry only works on the front doors and the fact that there is no option for auto-folding mirrors on the F Sport.

I liked the heat / UV resistant glass. The DRLs are really cool. And those claimed CO2 emissions.

Visually, I did not like the matt black trim on the bottom rear of the F Sport, but - other than that - it's a really nice car - from the front it looks like a confused wasp!

Personally, I would love to hear from folk who have purchased one of these... I'm interested in what the technology platform is like... what devices have you connected for music, does the parking spot finder feature work, what's the upgrade Mark Levinson audio like, will you get the Lexus Hotspot when it comes out, did you stick with the 18" wheels or drop down to 17"?

Hippo

[Ian J. Parsley]

Darren,

Welcome, and great post.

I expect to pick up my 300h tomorrow; my wife drives an Audi Q3; and actually my father-in-law drives a Jaguar XF.

So I'll post my honest comparison in a couple of weeks to help your choice. The truth is, whatever you decide, you are going to get a fine car!

Regards,

Ian P.

[Silver Arrow]

SO I too was only really considering an Audi (A7) on the basis that my previous Audi A4 (owned 2002-2006) was amazing....

We decided to kill some time at the Lexus dealers in Derby (Across the road from Audi) and ended up booking a test drive. The Audi dealership treated us, as usual, as if they were doing us a favour! Went for the Lexus test drive having had no joy at Audi, and actually ended up buying the GS250 - when I didn't want one after my misery with the IS220d.

So my point to you is this - if size isn't too much of an issue - go and test drive the GS. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how good it is and how much better value it is than the new IS. A nearly new GS250 F Sport can be had for around £30k and the 450h for a few £k's more. THAT IS A BARGAIN!

[Hippogriff]

Cool, I'm not taking the plunge until around September, so I will monitor this thread for your comparison.

I've always had standard audio systems in cars, the A6 Black Edition will come with BOSE (which I'm a bit unsure about, but I'll give it a good test) and the 300h obviously has the choice of Mark Levinson. I don't use CDs any more, so one thing that I am interested in finding out is what file types are supported by the car... is it just MP3s (which might not do justice to a premium audio system) or is there the opportunity to use something lossless (despite potential larger file sizes) like FLAC, WMA (the lossless one) or even a WAV taken at the same quality as a CD itself - 16-bit 44.1KHz - is there any way, at all, to get your album cover art displayed on the main screen (either via tags or folder.jpg), do the USB ports in the car provide enough 'juice' to use a small USB hard disk (don't have any apple stuff), can you voice control your music selection.

These are the kinds of questions that I have going around inside my head and that I know the answer to will have a bearing on my overall decision-making process. Let's see if I can get that extended test drive sorted... hopefully not one where I sit there, parked-up, trying to get various pieces of digital audio to play.

[Ian J. Parsley]

The GS is a great call too, given the unbeatable value nearly new.

I didn't go that route because it's just too big for me. But it's comfort levels are supreme.

[Hippogriff]

SO I too was only really considering an Audi (A7) on the basis that my previous Audi A4 (owned 2002-2006) was amazing....

We decided to kill some time at the Lexus dealers in Derby (Across the road from Audi) and ended up booking a test drive. The Audi dealership treated us, as usual, as if they were doing us a favour! Went for the Lexus test drive having had no joy at Audi, and actually ended up buying the GS250 - when I didn't want one after my misery with the IS220d.

So my point to you is this - if size isn't too much of an issue - go and test drive the GS. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how good it is and how much better value it is than the new IS. A nearly new GS250 F Sport can be had for around £30k and the 450h for a few £k's more. THAT IS A BARGAIN!

I know what you mean about the Audi Dealers! Sheffield Audi are utterly rubbish. I do seem to be having a better time with Wakefield Audi, when I gave up on Sheffield Audi, but that's a 20-mile or so inconvenience for me that I shouldn't ever have to experience. Whether it's enough to put me off the actual cars is another question, but it's got me actively looking at other marques... the Dealers might be wanting, but the cars are pretty good.

Thought I would add this P.S. - one other thing I loved about the IS 300h F Sport was... wait for it... the CVT. I've had my 2 A4s and both came with the multironic (multichronic, I believe some people refer to it as) gearbox, which I am actually a very big fan of.

The A3 Saloon will come with S tronic.

[Wicksy]

I've been an Audi A4 (2 cars) for the last eight years.

I'm currently looking for a new car... it has to be a four door saloon, but I'm not overly concerned with the size itself - what interests me more is the technology platform and the gadgets / toys.

From Audi I'm pondering the A6 Black Edition and will be taking one for an extended test drive next weekend. My head has also been turned by the upcoming A3 Saloon. I don't think I would be interested in a 'new' A4 as it hasn't moved on enough from my 4 year old car. However, I've also taken out a Jaguar XF 2.2d Sport recently and also - a revelation - the Lexus IS 300h F Sport. I did go into a BMW dealer over this weekend, but I wasn't impressed with anything I saw.

The Lexus has really thrown me, I must admit - it's come completely from left-field and I am very taken by it. I am in the process of asking to book an extended test drive.

I did not think the interior was as nice a place to be as any Audi - I will be honest, but it was a pleasant surprise. The seats (heated and ventilated) were really great. The electric adjustment of the seats and steering column and easy entry / exit were fantastic. However, I would say the interior was better than the BMW 3 and 5 I was in yesterday. I would also say (and this is entirely subjective) that it's on a par with the Jaguar XF (which some might be surprised by).

I did not like the gear stick, but that's something I would not be touching that often... I prefer straight back and forwards ones, rather than a slalom type route from P to D. I would never use the flappy paddles.

The test drive was enjoyable. The ride is really firm - and that's from me, who's driven a A4 Sport (notoriously firm) and is currently in an A4 S line (again, quite firm, but not as much as previous generations). I was surprised to hear that AVS can only make the ride firmer!!! I would have hoped for a comfort mode - but maybe you don't buy an F Sport if that's the major concern.

The dial on the F Sport is beautiful. So swish. I loved it. Its movement when it slides across is ace.

The hybrid nature of the car really opened my eyes. I felt it had plenty of power but I realise I was only doing some inner city driving and a little bit on a dual-carriageway, where I didn't have the opportunity to give it some welly. When starting off from standing, it's just eerie... silence! Like a toy.

The voice control would be something I would obviously need to get used to - on the test drive I said "suspend guidance" and she said "find nearest Chinese restaurant" - which got me laughing.

I would like the sat. nav. to be better - it looks a little aged and the colours were garish (maybe there are settings for that). I am interested in Lexus Connected Services as that implies there are better things you can do with that technology - and I need to find out more. Also the Lexus Hotspot is something coming soon, I believe, which I would be interested in. Lastly - I detest-detest-detest the sat. nav. nag screen!

What the heck is that huge analogue clock doing slap-bang in the middle of the dashboard? It's really anachronistic.

I was not pleased with the fact the key-less entry only works on the front doors and the fact that there is no option for auto-folding mirrors on the F Sport.

I liked the heat / UV resistant glass. The DRLs are really cool. And those claimed CO2 emissions.

Visually, I did not like the matt black trim on the bottom rear of the F Sport, but - other than that - it's a really nice car - from the front it looks like a confused wasp!

Personally, I would love to hear from folk who have purchased one of these... I'm interested in what the technology platform is like... what devices have you connected for music, does the parking spot finder feature work, what's the upgrade Mark Levinson audio like, will you get the Lexus Hotspot when it comes out, did you stick with the 18" wheels or drop down to 17"?

Hippo

Hi Hippo

I am a past Audi owner (A5) and I also considered the A6 Black Edition and although a very nice car it is quite anonymous in the styling stakes and I'm afraid that in my view that is synonymous across most of the Audi range.

I also considered the XF but in the end ordered the IS300h F Sport because of the renowned dealer service and the fact that the Lexus certainly won't blend in with the competition and will be a comparatively rare site on UK roads.

If you are intending ordering for September you best get a move on - I ordered mine at the back end of May and not expecting delivery until the last week of August.

Enjoy your test drive!

[Hippogriff]

Aaah, all this Lexus investigation is weird. I went to 'configure' a 450h on their website, just for kicks, really. I say 'configure' because that's not what I really did... all that I did was choose the grade - F Sport... then the colour of the seats, then the Mark Levinson and I seemed to be done. Anyway, it was £52,000... eek! The list of standard features did then go on for a bit, tho'!

I'm used to poring through lists of three character Audi codes, trying to figure out what exactly I want, then finding out that, if I want XYZ, I have to also choose to have ABC and then DEF somehow gets automatically removed... maybe the Configurator tells you or maybe you figure it out from the brochure. It's fun and games.

[Hippogriff]

I've been an Audi A4 (2 cars) for the last eight years.

I'm currently looking for a new car... it has to be a four door saloon, but I'm not overly concerned with the size itself - what interests me more is the technology platform and the gadgets / toys.

From Audi I'm pondering the A6 Black Edition and will be taking one for an extended test drive next weekend. My head has also been turned by the upcoming A3 Saloon. I don't think I would be interested in a 'new' A4 as it hasn't moved on enough from my 4 year old car. However, I've also taken out a Jaguar XF 2.2d Sport recently and also - a revelation - the Lexus IS 300h F Sport. I did go into a BMW dealer over this weekend, but I wasn't impressed with anything I saw.

The Lexus has really thrown me, I must admit - it's come completely from left-field and I am very taken by it. I am in the process of asking to book an extended test drive.

I did not think the interior was as nice a place to be as any Audi - I will be honest, but it was a pleasant surprise. The seats (heated and ventilated) were really great. The electric adjustment of the seats and steering column and easy entry / exit were fantastic. However, I would say the interior was better than the BMW 3 and 5 I was in yesterday. I would also say (and this is entirely subjective) that it's on a par with the Jaguar XF (which some might be surprised by).

I did not like the gear stick, but that's something I would not be touching that often... I prefer straight back and forwards ones, rather than a slalom type route from P to D. I would never use the flappy paddles.

The test drive was enjoyable. The ride is really firm - and that's from me, who's driven a A4 Sport (notoriously firm) and is currently in an A4 S line (again, quite firm, but not as much as previous generations). I was surprised to hear that AVS can only make the ride firmer!!! I would have hoped for a comfort mode - but maybe you don't buy an F Sport if that's the major concern.

The dial on the F Sport is beautiful. So swish. I loved it. Its movement when it slides across is ace.

The hybrid nature of the car really opened my eyes. I felt it had plenty of power but I realise I was only doing some inner city driving and a little bit on a dual-carriageway, where I didn't have the opportunity to give it some welly. When starting off from standing, it's just eerie... silence! Like a toy.

The voice control would be something I would obviously need to get used to - on the test drive I said "suspend guidance" and she said "find nearest Chinese restaurant" - which got me laughing.

I would like the sat. nav. to be better - it looks a little aged and the colours were garish (maybe there are settings for that). I am interested in Lexus Connected Services as that implies there are better things you can do with that technology - and I need to find out more. Also the Lexus Hotspot is something coming soon, I believe, which I would be interested in. Lastly - I detest-detest-detest the sat. nav. nag screen!

What the heck is that huge analogue clock doing slap-bang in the middle of the dashboard? It's really anachronistic.

I was not pleased with the fact the key-less entry only works on the front doors and the fact that there is no option for auto-folding mirrors on the F Sport.

I liked the heat / UV resistant glass. The DRLs are really cool. And those claimed CO2 emissions.

Visually, I did not like the matt black trim on the bottom rear of the F Sport, but - other than that - it's a really nice car - from the front it looks like a confused wasp!

Personally, I would love to hear from folk who have purchased one of these... I'm interested in what the technology platform is like... what devices have you connected for music, does the parking spot finder feature work, what's the upgrade Mark Levinson audio like, will you get the Lexus Hotspot when it comes out, did you stick with the 18" wheels or drop down to 17"?

Hippo

Hi Hippo

I am a past Audi owner (A5) and I also considered the A6 Black Edition and although a very nice car it is quite anonymous in the styling stakes and I'm afraid that in my view that is synonymous across most of the Audi range.

I also considered the XF but in the end ordered the IS300h F Sport because of the renowned dealer service and the fact that the Lexus certainly won't blend in with the competition and will be a comparatively rare site on UK roads.

If you are intending ordering for September you best get a move on - I ordered mine at the back end of May and not expecting delivery until the last week of August.

Enjoy your test drive!

Yup - you do see Audi A6s all over the place. I've only seen one IS 300h to date (outside the showroom) and it was a white one parked near the cathedral in Sheffield (I wonder if the owner is on here?). I've not ignored the 'exclusivity' factor, it carries a little weight with me, for sure. One thing that will help keep the A6 Black Edition in the running, or not, is how those 20" wheels fare.

[Ian J. Parsley]

With Audi and Lexus you are talking entirely different experiences.

With the former, you have 50 models and an array of engines and options. I feel this is why Audi is doing so well.

With the latter, you have six models, and within those generally only 2-3 engine options, 3-4 trim levels and a few extra "packs" as options. I wonder whether that's the best strategy, but it does have the benefit of making it completely clear what you are getting.

So just abandon any assumptions based on one brand when looking at the other!

[Silver Arrow]

I wouldn't get a brand new GS again, ever! They make excellent value for money when 6-12 months old with 5000 miles on the clock (and 25-30% off)....

I found the A6/7 in S Line ride too firm, almost knobbly around town. An SE with the Sport suspension option was the best option as it wasn't as firm as the S Line but better controlled than an SE's standard set up. The Black with 20 inch wheels would be really too hard for me....

The one thing that Lexus historically haven't done too well on is compromise between ride control and handling.

Not driven the new IS yet (just doesn't appeal to me after my disaster with the 2nd Gen), a bit of a taboo in our household....but if the CT was anything to go by, the ride might be too firm for my liking.

[Ala Larj]

Forget all the technical stuff. I feel sorry for the front passenger who's going to end up with a very painful right arm. The only place for them to rest it is on a hard bit of plastic with a couple of cup holders for comfort. Did Lexus not put a passenger in the seat when they designed it??

[Hippogriff]

Well, the comment on ride firmness of the Audi line-up is probably spot-on - and it's the Black Edition's 20" wheels that I'm really going to be testing at the weekend (most other stuff in an Audi I should be familiar with, apart from some new-ish gadgets).

I would add, though, that the firmness of the ride in the IS 300h F Sport was exactly why I enquired further about the £750 AVS option and was very surprised to hear it only stiffens the suspension further!

[Silver Arrow]

Oh dear. Why do they create cars with a hard ride and then an variable set up that makes it worse :eerrrmm:

Are you sure it doesn't have a "comfort" type setting? I'm sure the GS does.

Going back to the orginal question - IS250 or 300h, you have to do the maths. In your ownership, will it cost more to fuel, run and depreciate more with a 250???? Will you keep the car a long time??? There are compromises with a hybrid - largely the boot space - though it seems they are getting better at that.

[ColinBarber]

Depreciation of the IS250 will be interesting. If it goes anything like the current GS250 then it won't be pretty and may make extra money for the hybrid seem worthwhile.

[Ian J. Parsley]

Yes, the non-F-sport model is already plenty firm enough for me!

Seems to be the trend - Mercedes seems to have gone that way too.

[Hippogriff]

Ian - did you pick up your new car and, if so, what are your first impressions?

I am being offered a test drive going into a weekend, which I will make good use of in the next week or so. A6 Black Edition this weekend.

[Ian J. Parsley]

Picking it up in next hour!

[Hippogriff]

Cool.

If you could have a short report on my desk by Monday, I shall remember this at the time of your annual review. :eerrrmm:

[Ian J. Parsley]

Heh heh!

First impressions are overwhelmingly positive, including countering a lot of alleged negatives I've heard elsewhere.

To try to remember them:

- the DVD player is astonishing, coming with the full range of features as a home player would, worth the nav upgrade almost on its own;

- the acceleration in sport mode *does* push you back into your seat (unlike what has been suggested elsewhere; you do have to be in sport mode for this);

- the "mouse" interface really isn't that bad, and you can change the speed anyway;

- the ability to split the screen up to three ways any way you choose is brilliant;

- the footbrake is really quite good, placed where the clutch would usually be;

- I have had two passengers thus far and both have commented that it is, essentially, the most comfortable car they've ever sat in;

- I had heard stories that you couldn't set the nav destination on the move or that indicators didn't self-cancel - I have found neither to be the case;

- I'm getting mid-40s mpg even having spent time pushing it in sport mode; and

- folding mirrors work well.

Just two negatives: there's a hint of a rattle from the dashboard (which, in such an incredibly quiet car, is really noticeable, although I have to say it was very infrequent); and the windscreen wash doesn't quite clear the windscreen, leaving a trail of water to the right. I'd have to add the boot isn't huge, and the stereo system isn't *great* for playing music via Bluetooth (but it's superb for CDs; and it is *passable* for bluetooth).

I reserve the right to change any of this by Monday, mind!

[DJP]

Fascinating thread to read. 5 years plus in an IS250 and considering the 300, a used 4th gen 450h or an Audi S5. The Lexus customer experience puts other dealers to shame. I had quite a long test driven the 300 F version and was impressed. A very comfortable ride indeed and plenty of get up and go if you push a bit for it. My passenger who has been in the IS a million times reckoned it was a miles better ride and my dealer reckons they will sell many more 300 than 250's.

However the 450h a year old is a serious contender and boy that is quick! Obviously being hybrid too takes some of the pain of a 3.5 engine away and the thought of £125 road tax makes me laugh. Then I remember the 300 is zero!!!

Not tried the S5 but drawn by the Quattro as no Lexus in the snow or ice is remotely safe to drive. the 'snow' button is as useful as a chocolate teapot.

The mention of a slight rattle noise in the 300 will send shivers down the spine of any early 2nd gen IS owner. Renowned for them and a nightmare to cure. One of the reasons I'm a bit reluctant to jump into the 300 until the bugs are ironed out.

It will be interesting to watch the threads develop.

One thing for sure, you won't see many on the roads, Lexus will not be bringing that many in, so if a bit of exclusivity is what you are after Lexus it is.

[DJP]

Cool, I'm not taking the plunge until around September, so I will monitor this thread for your comparison.

I've always had standard audio systems in cars, the A6 Black Edition will come with BOSE (which I'm a bit unsure about, but I'll give it a good test) and the 300h obviously has the choice of Mark Levinson. I don't use CDs any more, so one thing that I am interested in finding out is what file types are supported by the car... is it just MP3s (which might not do justice to a premium audio system) or is there the opportunity to use something lossless (despite potential larger file sizes) like FLAC, WMA (the lossless one) or even a WAV taken at the same quality as a CD itself - 16-bit 44.1KHz - is there any way, at all, to get your album cover art displayed on the main screen (either via tags or folder.jpg), do the USB ports in the car provide enough 'juice' to use a small USB hard disk (don't have any Apple stuff), can you voice control your music selection.

These are the kinds of questions that I have going around inside my head and that I know the answer to will have a bearing on my overall decision-making process. Let's see if I can get that extended test drive sorted... hopefully not one where I sit there, parked-up, trying to get various pieces of digital audio to play.

Hell's teeth, are you sure it's a car you're after? Totally off topic but I'd have a small wager your a Sonos man......

[Ian J. Parsley]

I should be clear, to get the "seat back" acceleration you need also to have the shift in "S", not "D".

I suspect reviewers have missed this distinction.