What Is It Like? Ether Is250 0R Is 300H

[Hippogriff]

Well gents, I've chatted it over with the other half this morning, using her as a sounding-board. I can report that I've ruled-out the Lexus IS 300h F Sport. It has actually come down to 3 pretty simple reasons...

1. The seats were quite painful
2. The mouse is rather annoying
3. The boot is not big enough

Everything else, we think, falls into the some things are better on the Lexus and some things are better on the Audi bracket - it's swings and roundabouts throughout. That's covering things like features, implementation, comfort, cost, efficiency, coolness factor and exclusivity.

It's a great car, but the three reasons above drove me to the conclusion it probably isn't for me. Even though reason 1 might end up not being a reason forever (by that, I mean my backside might win-out against the seat in the long-term) I don't think I can live with it until that might happen.

Thanks for all the help from this forum. If anyone wants to ask any further questions about my test drive / impressions, please do.

[Ian J. Parsley]

I'll come back on the other points when I get a moment, but just a thought: have a think, just a think, about trying a non-F-sport model.

That loses you the central guage but the seats are different. They may solve that problem.

Re the mouse, you get used to that. I grew familiar with "backspace" in the first few days but rarely if ever miss now (besides, I control most things by voice).

If you like the car and you want to try something different, I'd say you've nothing to lose by trying another version.

Like I say, I'm an Audi fan too so no quibbles with your choice!

[Wicksy]

Well gents, I've chatted it over with the other half this morning, using her as a sounding-board. I can report that I've ruled-out the Lexus IS 300h F Sport. It has actually come down to 3 pretty simple reasons...

1. The seats were quite painful
2. The mouse is rather annoying
3. The boot is not big enough

Everything else, we think, falls into the some things are better on the Lexus and some things are better on the Audi bracket - it's swings and roundabouts throughout. That's covering things like features, implementation, comfort, cost, efficiency, coolness factor and exclusivity.

It's a great car, but the three reasons above drove me to the conclusion it probably isn't for me. Even though reason 1 might end up not being a reason forever (by that, I mean my backside might win-out against the seat in the long-term) I don't think I can live with it until that might happen.

Thanks for all the help from this forum. If anyone wants to ask any further questions about my test drive / impressions, please do.

A4 over the IS - I don't want to sound rude but the Audi is so boring and common - I even found my A5 hum drum and I can only think that the A4 is worse. Each to their own though and its your opinion that counts. Good luck with it but I bet you will have a tinge of regret each time you see the IS on the road.

[Hippogriff]

Hi, I really don't think I will regret it, because I've weighed them up against each other objectively and emotionally and the A4 wins (in my opinion). I certainly don't want to 'dis' the IS 300h F Sport on a forum which is here for folk who're interested in the car, though.

My personal focus has always been on the technology side, so mostly we're talking about infotainment and gadgets. I believe the Audi Connect system to be better than the Lexus Connected Services system. I also know that I can control what Album Covers I see in the Audi by embedding them into my MP3 files. I also know the Audi AMI lets me plug a 1.8" USB HDD into the glove compartment. I am positive that I can use SD cards in the Audi. I am positive the Audi navigation system is on a HDD - whereas I'm now confused with the Lexus system - is it on a HDD or a micro SD? I am positive I can insert a SIM into the car itself, rather than having to use a MiFi (or the £350 Lexus Hotspot with a 250MB allowance with Vodafone). I,even, believe the Audi MMI wheel is a better input device than the Lexus mouse (although both are beaten by MMI Touch available in the A6 and A3) - and, of course, we're not comparing voice commands. I've decided that just like the DRLs better on the A4... nothing objective, purely subjective. There are things I can't accept (if they're truly as I see them today)... the heated seats auto-dropping their level (can't seem to override this), the sat. nav. screen colours at night (can't seem to override this).

But many other things are on par (reversing camera), and some things are better on the Lexus (fixed speed camera alerts) - just not enough of them to tempt me away from what I know... and, I guess, that's also part of the decision-making process here as well.

Yesterday, the test drive I undertook was designed to reflect what I do with my car... A roads, motorways, supermarket trips. It's only then that you realise that little things like curry hooks matter to you. :winky:

I mean, the lack of auto-folding mirrors really did have me worried... but at least we all now know that the F Sport can have those.

Enjoy the IS guys... it is a great car.

[Ian J. Parsley]

Just for reference, you can override the auto-dropping of heated seats and you can set the sat-nav to be either permanently "day" or permanently "night".

What I think is fair to say is that some of these things are not instantly obvious. (That said, I've only just spotted how to change from miles to km on my wife's sat nav, a month after 2000 frustrating miles on the Continent!)

[Wicksy]

Hi, I really don't think I will regret it, because I've weighed them up against each other objectively and emotionally and the A4 wins (in my opinion). I certainly don't want to 'dis' the IS 300h F Sport on a forum which is here for folk who're interested in the car, though.

My personal focus has always been on the technology side, so mostly we're talking about infotainment and gadgets. I believe the Audi Connect system to be better than the Lexus Connected Services system. I also know that I can control what Album Covers I see in the Audi by embedding them into my MP3 files. I also know the Audi AMI lets me plug a 1.8" USB HDD into the glove compartment. I am positive that I can use SD cards in the Audi. I am positive the Audi navigation system is on a HDD - whereas I'm now confused with the Lexus system - is it on a HDD or a micro SD? I am positive I can insert a SIM into the car itself, rather than having to use a MiFi (or the £350 Lexus Hotspot with a 250MB allowance with Vodafone). I,even, believe the Audi MMI wheel is a better input device than the Lexus mouse (although both are beaten by MMI Touch available in the A6 and A3) - and, of course, we're not comparing voice commands. I've decided that just like the DRLs better on the A4... nothing objective, purely subjective. There are things I can't accept (if they're truly as I see them today)... the heated seats auto-dropping their level (can't seem to override this), the sat. nav. screen colours at night (can't seem to override this).

But many other things are on par (reversing camera), and some things are better on the Lexus (fixed speed camera alerts) - just not enough of them to tempt me away from what I know... and, I guess, that's also part of the decision-making process here as well.

Yesterday, the test drive I undertook was designed to reflect what I do with my car... A roads, motorways, supermarket trips. It's only then that you realise that little things like curry hooks matter to you. :winky:

I mean, the lack of auto-folding mirrors really did have me worried... but at least we all now know that the F Sport can have those.

Enjoy the IS guys... it is a great car.

I suppose the price difference is a big factor too - I was offered the A6 Black Edition for £26k - almost 10k off list but I still couldn't resist the F Sport with options for £35k. If you think the A4 is a better all round car and also cheaper then it is a no brainer.

[petayV8]

The A6 black edition is only available with a diesel isnt it?

[Damien7579]

The A6 black edition is only available with a diesel isnt it?

Yep.

http://www.audi.co.uk/new-cars/a6/a6-saloon/specifications/pricing.html

Wow didn't realise how expensive the A6 hybrid is and how worse off it is for emissions etc. Might as well go for the BE 3.0 TDI!

[Damien7579]

@Tel

120 Mile Report.

Auto Mirror Fold facility is available from the Custom Options but is not practical if garage space is tight.

The Boot is significantly larger than my Isf version & longer than my SEL.

The Nav is much more advanced in that it can easily be programmed by Voice,it names every turn,shows No Entry signs on all the exits bar "yours",monitors all cameras & excess speed,& so much more .

The DAB is perfect.

Keeping it in Drive for the First 600 Miles.

Compressor in Boot.

Ride---no difference from my ISF "2".

Handling--------in many ways better!

Tel

Interesting to read your updates as an IS-F switcher :) I thought the ride might be better than the IS-F and interesting about the handling... in what ways is it better? Planning on keeping the ISF for two-ish years and was thinking the GS450h might be a better replacement for the ISF due to a proper V6 engine and more poke... but new IS defo seems worth a look. You seem to have no regrets. Anything you miss in the IS-F apart for V8 growl etc?

BTW just read your post about switching and your F-Sport colour combo does look amazing.

[Hippogriff]

Audi doesn't seem to have properly got into hybrids yet, I think... the one they've selected for the A6 makes little sense to me.

:megaangry: Sadly, by the time I've added AAC, TPMS, Interior Light Pack, Reversing Camera, Auto-folding Mirrors, Heated Seats, Lane Change Assist, Audi Connect, Advanced Key and a couple of other things to an A4, it won't be much cheaper than the IS 300h F Sport.

There are some great discounts to be had on the A6... I had decided that it wasn't for me due to the car itself, though.

I've just come back from Sheffield Lexus in my A4. I gave some proper feedback to the sales guy - told him what I liked and what I didn't like. Told him that Album Covers could be downloaded - he was pleased to hear this. Told him the good stuff about Online Destinations and Google Streetview - but he agreed with me - if something as important as the seats don't suit you then there's no way he's going to persuade me otherwise.

I actually sat in a GS 450 in the showroom... it had Hippo-friendlier seats, for sure... but too big, too plush for my liking (a car more like an A6 - that I didn't want).

I drove back in my A4 and I would describe it as "more planted" than the IS 300h F Sport... or "more grounded" - that kind of feeling anyway, it's hard to describe, the feeling that it was more in touch with the road. I also preferred my electro-mechanical handbrake and where my Start Engine button was, and where the Parking Sensor button was... it's these small things that make one person go for a car and another not. I definitely prefer the A4 steering wheel and the roller for things like volume control.

[Silver Arrow]

245ps, 145 g/km Co2 - Audi A6 hybrid....not bad for a car of that size and weight. remember it's a whole class bigger then the IS 300h....the GS300h will be comparable to that I'm sure, and probably won't have the same performance!!

[Ian J. Parsley]

Worth going through these - noting, however, that I own the Luxury trim (i.e. non-F-sport) with Nav and leather (but not memory).

I love the seats, as I say I had a Volvo (famed for its seats) before and did not think it could be beaten. However, the non-F-sport version does not have the "sports" seats referred to above in the F-sport.

I agree the boot is quite small - it only loses 30 litres over the non-hybrid but it's noteworthy. Doesn't bother me in the slightest, as it happens. What does bother me slightly is: a) the boot lid is awkward (I'd love an electrically closing one); and b) there are a few hooks and whatever but nothing like Audi's "curry hooks" or Volvo's band holder.

There is a setting which stops you having to re-enter your username and password. Nevertheless, it does have to be found and clicked! I find online search brilliant; connected services is a bit trickier because, like you, it often refused to connect via my phone (and I don't like just sitting in the driveway on my home wifi for two minutes!)

I'm not sure (and in my case not bothered) by album artwork - there are settings to do with Gracenote or some such which may or may not affect this. I don't know.

I haven't experienced the music stopping. Occasionally, usually when trying to download a trip via 3G actually, I've had to "re-boot" the entire system (I'm not the most patient!), which you do my holding the volume button for a few seconds.

I don't like voice cues for anything, so have simply turned them off! I agree that Audi's (and actually Volvo's) system of being able to turn them up and down via the knob while they are happened would be preferable, if you have them on.

To confirm, you can't change the colours of the night-time map but you can simply leave the day-time map on at all times. As it happens, I love the night-time one and would be likelier to do it the other way around - I personally love the car in the dark, when the clock comes into its own too.

The ability to split the main screen is fantastic and something I really miss in my wife's Audi.

The navigation system is SD-card based, yes.

I don't break the speed limit...! :)

You don't get the main dial in non-F-sport versions (I have a suspicion you will in later model years...) but you do get the change in colour. I like that too.

I've come to quite like the footbrake - for those unfamiliar with the car, it's where the clutch would be. For the first couple of days with the car I found I would take it off and then inadvertently put it on against as if it were the clutch (I'd been borrowing a manual car for two months previously)! However, I'm used to it now.

I don't have the electric seats.

I like the DRLs - as noted above, they're not intrusive but they do look highly distinctive (even from other Lexus models).

For the navigation zoom-in, I find it baffling that neither Lexus nor Audi have this remotely right! I have to say I find Lexus less fiddly, I can't stand Audi on this point to the extent I find it almost unusable. Here, however, Volvo trumps them both easily - it's joystick behind the wiper stalk is so much easier and more logical, I just can't comprehend why anyone else wouldn't use it!

Yes, I can understand the "high-pitched buzz" (although it is temporary and not at all "annoying"!), but reviewers refer to an "annoying drone". This simply does not exist. I will from now on refer to it simply as the "Santa Sound"! :)

Ahem, you are not supposed to leave the hybrid in 'D' without the brake applied! You are supposed either to put it in 'P', or apply the brake (I find the latter easier, at least for short stops).

There is an override for the auto-turn-off of heated seats (and I'd imagine also for ventilated seats, in cars which have them). To be honest, I haven't used them at all yet!

Just a quick thought on modes:

- 'eco' is really just for traffic jams (and when in EV mode, I find, to avoid it turning off due to 'excessive acceleration');

- 'normal' is for maximising efficiency in general;

- 'sport' is for a completely different car, much quicker acceleration, but comparatively ghastly mpg!

[Ian J. Parsley]

Darren,

In fairness, I think what you are saying is that in the event of a draw, Audi's was always going to win on away goals, as it were!

I can well understand that - after all, I had not one but four Volvos!

Like I say, the one thing I would have thought worth considering was the non-F-sport version (although that doesn't help with any of your audio system issues, I suspect). The F-sport is by definition less planted and less stable (that's the fun of it); my sense is that for someone familiar with Audi (or most Mercedes), the non-F-sport version would be preferable (the reverse applies to someone familiar with BMW).

As I say, because we already had an Audi in the household, it simply wasn't on the radar; I have to say, if it were, I'd have been looking A5 over A4 - is there any particular reason you're sticking with A4?

[Ian J. Parsley]

Damien,

I agree with you there actually - and for business users this side of the border (and of course over in GB), going over 130g/cm CO2 means only 85% rental can be reclaimed too.

An A6 hybrid is almost pointless, in the UK at least!

[Hippogriff]

Darren,

In fairness, I think what you are saying is that in the event of a draw, Audi's was always going to win on away goals, as it were!

I can well understand that - after all, I had not one but four Volvos!

Like I say, the one thing I would have thought worth considering was the non-F-sport version (although that doesn't help with any of your audio system issues, I suspect). The F-sport is by definition less planted and less stable (that's the fun of it); my sense is that for someone familiar with Audi (or most Mercedes), the non-F-sport version would be preferable (the reverse applies to someone familiar with BMW).

As I say, because we already had an Audi in the household, it simply wasn't on the radar; I have to say, if it were, I'd have been looking A5 over A4 - is there any particular reason you're sticking with A4?

Yes, a score-draw equals another A4. But - I have been very open minded this time around, trying the Audi A6, trying the Jaguar XF Sport, trying the Lexus IS 300h F Sport and I even went into a BMW dealer!

I got an A4 1.9 TDI Sport in 2004 and an A4 2.0 TDI S line in 2009... I've always had the sporty kind of trim without going into Audi S or RS territory. That's why I was only interested in the F Sport with the Lexus IS.

The reason for the A4 over other Audis is really because it seems the right size for me. The A6 is too big. The new A3 Saloon I've not yet managed to try (I couldn't make it to Wakefield Audi last Thursday when they had one in for a day!) but I think it will be too small (probably I'm talking about boot space here again) and I don't want a coupe type of car (I just haven't taken to the A5)... I want a more normal, typical, saloon. The final reason for the A4 - in front of other types of cars - is the fact that I really like the Multitronic gearbox... another reason why I've given the Lexus IS so much attention. No failing there on the part of the Lexus - all very nice indeed.

So, that's how I've ended up where I am.

I'm curious about how you've found these settings for the map colours and heated seats... I mentioned these things to the Lexus sales guy earlier today and he didn't challenge them, he in fact said "Audis are probably going against the grain by setting the heated seats at a level and allowing them to remain there" he said a Mercedes he had did the same drop down as the Lexus. I had searched pretty deep into the menu system yesterday - nothing for this colour setting on the map in Navigation (I could find) and nothing for heated seats in Car Customisation. It won't matter to me - but others might be interested if you could detail this. The fact that it wasn't easy to find is more of a retrospective niggle for me, now that I've handed it back.

And, yes, this Lexus Portal... seemed a bit flaky to me. When I went in via a browser to it, a lot of things were "Coming soon..." so I hope whatever it is they're intending to bring out actually see the light of day.

Finally, Lexus Hotspot... £350 I believe. It's just another MiFi device that will take power from the car, right? Might as well get your own... my Huawei E5756 can allow up to 10 devices to connect, can power via USB and seems to serve the car perfectly well. It's currently £49 at Three, then £19.99 per month for 5GB data allowance, but you can immediately upgrade to a £15 per month plan that gives you 10GB - so it's not too bad at all.

[Damien7579]

Damien,

I agree with you there actually - and for business users this side of the border (and of course over in GB), going over 130g/cm CO2 means only 85% rental can be reclaimed too.

An A6 hybrid is almost pointless, in the UK at least!

Given they offer a range of diesels and various trims for each engine, it seems to compete with itself here so would be hard pressed to see why to pick it over other A6 versions.

One thing tho that it does have is a more potent engine; the proven turbo 2l from the normal petrol lineup. I do wonder why lexus have avoided turbos so far? The non-hybrid range could certainly benefit from better performance & economy with perhaps smaller engines to help reduce weight - it's their most criticised area in non-hybrid reviews - terrible emissions, econ and low performance! It would make the 4IS 250 much more attractive. But then I guess they want people to go for the hybrid hence the 4 to 1 sales ratio they're expecting but it still tars their image to release cars with such poor engines in this climate. Sometimes it's really hard to see where lexus come from but I guess they have other markets where these aren't big issues for them (think US)

[Roger Bill]

Interesting that the IS300h sport Darren was lent had memory seats and electric steering wheel adjustment. Extra gadgets over that promised on the web site and brochure will be a welcome bonus for those opting for the F sport but it seems to erode the value of the higher priced Premier model or does this also have some undeclared extra goodies?

In another thread Michael said the TPMS only has a high/low warning instead of auto location feature that gives pressure readings in each of the four tyres. Although this was a gadget I thought would be nice and useful, it's just a minor disappointment rather than a deal breaker.

[Ian J. Parsley]

I'm fairly sure that the options were as follows:

SE - fabric seats (no heating or ventilation/memory) only

Lux - fabric seats, or added cost leather seats with heating, or further added cost leather seats with heating and ventilation/memory

F-sport - fabric sport seats or added cost leather seats with heating and ventilation/memory (but you *can't* get the middle option of leather seats with heating but not ventilation/memory)

Premier - leather seats with heating and ventilation/memory as standard

In other words, it was always the case that F-sport could add leather with heating and ventilation/memory; the confusion was that leather seats with hearing only (actually what I have) was *only* available in Luxury trim.

[Ian J. Parsley]

Hearing?! *Heating*!

[Ian J. Parsley]

Darren,

My wife's Q3 does the drop down actually, but only from 3 to 2. My Volvo didn't (but I couldn't speak for modern ones).

We've spoken before about salesmen... I forget exactly where either of those options (heating drop down cancel and navigation colour) are, though I do remember seeing both in my early explorations (sometimes the phrasing is slightly confusing). One thing I would add is that some options are only available when the car is fully stopped (i.e. they just do not appear, not just that they are darkened; it happened the other day to "Communications Settings" when I was looking to turn off the auto-trip download). I do find that a bit bizarre.

[Hippogriff]

I wondered if that might be the case - some settings were simply not visible (as opposed to the equivalent of greyed-out or unselectable) when moving.

My A4's heated seats go up to 6 and they stay where you set them. I hope this is not a common brave new world of seat heating.

[Roger Bill]

All this talk of seat heaters reminded me of this Rolls Royce recall http://www.arfc.org/autos/rolls-royce/silver_seraph/recalls/000009194000082672000000322/recall.aspx and the amusing thought of wealthy Rolls Royce owners having their rears heated to "AN UNACCEPTABLY HIGH TEMPERATURE" and in "EXTREME CASES ... DAMAGE TO ANY OBJECT IN CONTACT WITH THE SEAT CUSHION."

[DJP]

....Not tried the S5 but drawn by the Quattro as no Lexus in the snow or ice is remotely safe to drive. the 'snow' button is as useful as a chocolate teapot....

I beg to differ on this point.Drove my 2009 GS300 through the worst of the last 3 winters in complete control and without getting stuck or any dramas whatsoever.How? By using winter tyres.Thoroughly recommend them for cold temps, ice and snow. Usually swap them over Nov and keep them on until March/ Apr depending on temps. Saves the summer tyres as well whilst the winters are on.

Not wishing to be pedantic but it is the button that is useless, fitting snow tyres is a whole different scenario.

[Silver Arrow]

All the button does is start you off in 2nd. You have to be able to switch off TC and be able to to do the "Norwegian rock" lol or whatever it's called. It's always easier in a manual!!

Winter tyres all the way!

[Tel]

ISF v. F-Sport------4-Days in!

My ISF was a 2011 M.Y. which had significant developments over the previous cars & the ride was far more Road as opposed to Track orientated.Consequently,as the tires are the 18" inch version of my 19", the 300h F-Sport urban ride is the same.

The handling seems better because turn-in is So Sharpe & the car itself is so Tight.

Brakes are good but my ISF,s were top of the Premier League.

Voice Activation is so far simple & straight forward provided you repeat the screen prompts.

The Lexus Laptop Navigation Suite is impressive in that, when Auto Zoom is switched off, & a Destination set, every turn is said by naming the next road @ 100 metres then, @ 50, the Road Name itself is on a drop-down tag

Twice cars have sat behind me & passed me slowly.

The Sales Brochure & the Showroom Spec.List sell the cars short yet,the Germans charge £0000's to match.

I am assuming mpg is good.-----altered my Start -up screen in D. so the Nav. is displayed not fuel data

Boot snaps shut from 3" closure----perfect.

Tel