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Is The Ct A “Real” Lexus?


PaulWhitt20
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I have been reading “The Relentless Pursuit” by Chester Dawson that details the early years of Lexus as Toyota tried to design and launch the first Japanese Luxury car in America.

This got me thinking. Are the same principals and attention to detail that were given to the LS when it was first launched, still applicable to Lexus today? Are all Lexus models still designed and built to the same philosophy, from the flagship RC-F to the lowly CT, or is the CT just a posh Toyota Prius/Auris designed to introduce people into the brand so that they can buy the more expensive cars in the future?

Paul

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I would like to think they pay the same amount of attention to all of their cars. If not, it would harm the brand overall.

Having driven one, I can say it is quality well built car and IMO adds to the brand.

Most, if not all premium brands have a hatch. It is a massive market in the uk. The ct is bloody expensive in this category as well and shows lexus as a premium car against its competitors just like the IS, LS etc

Stu

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I would agree with Stu, Lexus are clearly trying to take away buyers from the German car makers. However without the CT they are missing a large section of the market because Audi, BMW and Merc all have a car in this bracket and it is clearly about offering choice to protential Lexus buyers.

With that in mind the CT needs to be build to the same standards as all the other cars in the range or the hard work which Lexus has done building it brand gets destroyed.

IMO I think Lexus needs to expand it range a bit, in particular in relation to the engine range. It appears they have had there fingers burnt with the IS220d and are now focusing on hybirds, which is likely a very good move, because Toyota and Lexus are at the forefront of this techniology and are right to focus on what they are good at. When you remove the MPG argument diesels no longer seems such a good option when compared to a petrol. However the hybird clearly gives the best of both worlds and is likely the way to go. I had a test drive of the IS300h and was very impressed with the hybird function and I am sure the CT is no different.

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The CT is different from every other Lexus in the UK in that it is based on a Toyota vehicle sold in the UK, the Auris. A bit like the Audi A3 and VW Golf. In other countries, such as the US, this is much more common as the ES, GX and LX all have Toyota sisters sold in-country.

I wonder whether the CT decision was based on meeting government emission targets for the whole Lexus range more than attracting different people to the brand

Only the LS and LFA really fall into the what you describe, the others are too compromised by hitting a cost point.

The original IS probably would have sold much better as a Toyota in the UK. A small engine with a manual transmission really didn't match the Lexus image at the time.

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I have been reading “The Relentless Pursuit” by Chester Dawson that details the early years of Lexus as Toyota tried to design and launch the first Japanese Luxury car in America.

This got me thinking. Are the same principals and attention to detail that were given to the LS when it was first launched, still applicable to Lexus today? Are all Lexus models still designed and built to the same philosophy, from the flagship RC-F to the lowly CT, or is the CT just a posh Toyota Prius/Auris designed to introduce people into the brand so that they can buy the more expensive cars in the future?

Paul

This is all down to target market.. Target market will dictate how much budget goes into building a car thereby dictating how much the manufacturer sells that model. Truth of the matter is Lexus will not sell you LS600h engineering, spec, attention to detail ,build and ride quality for £22,000 which is roughly how much a CT200h SE fetches neither will BMW sell you 7 series spec, build quality , engineering for 118d money nor Merc sell S class specs and build for A180 CDI money.

What am saying is a Lexus CT will never drive and feel like an LS600h all down to how much it initially cost to build the 600h compared to the 200h. book a test drive at BMW/ Merc dealership for both their S Class and 7 series models then right after hop into their 118d and A180 CDI models respectively and you will notice a very big difference as to how the S Class and 7 series goes about things on the road and the whole ambience compared to 118d and A180 CDI models. I personally experienced this when I test drove both a GS300 and IS300 when I was looking for a Lexus and could immedialtely tell more enginnering and quality went into the GS compared to the IS and went for the IS due to its handling compared to the coushin feeling GS. my previous 520i BMW also rides better than my mates 330Ci model but 330 handles better and more agile compared to the 5 series.

Lexus can build a CT200h and give it attention to details and build and ride quality just like the LS600h model but you will have to be willing and ready to at least pay around double of how much the CT's currently fetch now at the showrooms. same will apply when you walk into BMW, Merc or Audi dealerships.

So is a CT200h a 'real' Lexus? my answer will be yes it certainly is as its real purpose was to offer the driver an 'entry level' model into the Lexus brand, a quiet/refinement drive from its hybrid technology whilst returning around 70mpg during the process at a price tag of around £20,000 but for the LS experience, build quality and attention to detail, one should be willing to pay around £60,000 + for that.

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As somebody already mentioned, the CT is based on a toyota auris. Its still a Lexus, it seems that the face lift being offered in UK addresses some of the easy fix items which the UK models suffered from: harsh suspension which isn't really suited to 17" wheels and no spare tyre on uk models. The face lifted models come with a space saver( which other markets enjoyed from the word go) and re-engineered suspension which does suit the larger wheel configuration. As a stop gap to Lexus actually developing their own dedicated bodyshell, its pretty good, but as a cost engineered end product which utilises existing technology from a sister vehicle it is excellent. The top of the range Auris just isnt a patch on the base model CT for a two person family user.

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I got my CT in December 2012 after owning two Prius`s over seven years. The build quality of the Lexus is light years ahead of the Toyota, and I really mean that. The Prius was always 100% reliable, but the quality of materials was shocking.

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There is definitely a difference in terms of quality between the CT/new IS and the GS. The GS just seems so much plusher. Thats not to say that the CT and IS are cheap, though the hard plastics do seem a bit lower class compared to the GS's fittings.

The there thing is that the CT has a 3 year warranty (+5 for Hybrid bits), whereas the Toyota Auris has 5 (+8 for the Hybrid bits)! That I think is shocking!

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Thanks for your replies.

So the general feeling is that the CT is more upmarket than
a Prius/Auris and is a real Lexus but you get what you pay for, and as with all
makes, the more you pay the better the build quality and ride.

Paul

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I was recently given an RX450h as a courtesy car when my CT went in for a service and I found the interior materials just as good as my CT, and I fact I was a touch disappointed about the ride quality on the RX and a few rattles from the rear seat surprised me. As others have said, the CT is light years away in build quality compared to the Prius and Auris. A friend of mine works at the Auris factory and visited the Lexus plant in Japan recently and summed up the difference in build quality to me. - with an Auris when the doors are fitted the robots fit the door and then an operator checks it and makes a small adjustment. at Lexus the robot fits the door up, the first operator checks and adjusts it and then a second one checks his/her work and might adjust again.

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I was recently given an RX450h as a courtesy car when my CT went in for a service and I found the interior materials just as good as my CT, and I fact I was a touch disappointed about the ride quality on the RX and a few rattles from the rear seat surprised me. As others have said, the CT is light years away in build quality compared to the Prius and Auris. A friend of mine works at the Auris factory and visited the Lexus plant in Japan recently and summed up the difference in build quality to me. - with an Auris when the doors are fitted the robots fit the door and then an operator checks it and makes a small adjustment. at Lexus the robot fits the door up, the first operator checks and adjusts it and then a second one checks his/her work and might adjust again.

Some info here:

http://pressroom.lexus.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=2078

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I was recently given an RX450h as a courtesy car when my CT went in for a service and I found the interior materials just as good as my CT, and I fact I was a touch disappointed about the ride quality on the RX and a few rattles from the rear seat surprised me. As others have said, the CT is light years away in build quality compared to the Prius and Auris. A friend of mine works at the Auris factory and visited the Lexus plant in Japan recently and summed up the difference in build quality to me. - with an Auris when the doors are fitted the robots fit the door and then an operator checks it and makes a small adjustment. at Lexus the robot fits the door up, the first operator checks and adjusts it and then a second one checks his/her work and might adjust again.

That definitely does sum it up....shame you only get a 3 year warranty on the better made car. That has always puzzled me.

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Thanks for posting the link Colin, very interesting. This is exactly the sort of information I was after. If Lexus are the most reliable cars and the dealers have the best customer service, why do people buy anything else.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Having test driven a 2014 Auris before purchasing my CT200h, I think there's a huge difference in the two cars, and the CT is far superior. Sitting inside the Auris is like sitting in a cockpit of low grade plastics, and I had barely anything good to say about the car with regards to the interior. The CT certainly feels like a premium vehicle. All the switches and dials are smooth and tactile (better finish than in the A3 I think). The trim in pretty much entirely leather in my car (premium spec level), and again I believe looks a lot better than competitive cars who always seem to use cheap plastic trim on far too much of the dash!

A lot of my colleagues drive the Prius, and the Prius/Auris vehicles and CT are miles and miles apart. As the salesguy at Lexus said, the Lexus CT200h is the only premium hybrid available on the market, and as soon as you sit in the Toyota cars, this is confirmed!
I've come from driving a Civic as I liked the interior, and didn't want to go down the VW Golf route with some boring generic interior and flimsy switches. At the end of the day, it's the interior of the car that matters the most when you're sat on the motorway for a few hours. Everbody comments on the car and how nicely it's finished.

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Also confirmed that they put more paint on the Lexus, used a Paint gauge on mine recently and averages 180 microns, new Auris belonging to friend only 110 microns.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks for posting the link Colin, very interesting. This is exactly the sort of information I was after. If Lexus are the most reliable cars and the dealers have the best customer service, why do people buy anything else.

Because people's priorities and requirements are different. To some people, reliability and excellent customer service is not as important as dynamics, performance or even practicality.

The CT is an expensive car and can be difficult to justify. To some, the perceived quality does not justify the difference in price between the CT and its competitors. Some of these competitors are catching up in terms of quality and offer cars that are more spacious and that are more economical. Hybrids are great in mixed traffic, but it is becoming increasingly difficult to compete against the efficiency of newer diesels on the motorway.

I love the CT, but there are things that do grate on me, such as the whine of the CVT box and the very small boot.

A lot of people will look at a £30k top of the range CT and compare it to - let say - a Focus. Yes, it is a run of the mill Ford, but it's bigger, possibly more economical (diesel with stop/start technology) and can be just as well equipped for far less money. Furthermore, anyone who is looking for advice in car magazine will learn that a Focus has better dynamics. To a lot of people, this is a no brainer.

Similarly, I'd say that apple laptops are probably the best on the market... it does not mean that everyone is prepared to spend their hard earned cash on one, when other excellent laptops are available for half the price. Same with TVs... washing machines... etc

Personally, I think that Lexus will need to up their game where technology is concerned because the competition is catching up with regards to quality, comfort etc.

Good customer service and sparkling showrooms are all very good... but Lexus cars are so reliable you rarely need to use either!

(P.S. - To set the record straight, I am planning to replace my RX with another RX, and I am considering buying a CT to replace my second car.)

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