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ALI_1
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I must admit I don't know much about politics am sure we have all seen on the news what's going on in palestine I find it very disturbing that Israel can invade a country and kill innocent people and steal land and yet our governments won't do anything to help the Palestinians or put sanctions on Israel if it was any other country we would be up in arms about sanctions and getting involved

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Considering what horrendous things happened to the Jewish nation in the 2nd world war before and since they would show more mercy and understanding to their neighbors. Clearly I am wrong. Mike

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No-one's really turning a blind eye to it. However, most people are fed up at 50 years of "six of one, half dozen of the other" nature of the Palestinian conflict.

It is an outrageous use of US-Israel lobby, but the two parties are so entrenched and so happy to be used by their religious leaders that the chances of the conflict being resolved are about zero. Whether "we" got involved or not.

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I never thought I'd be commenting on politics here never mind abroad but I can't see how anyone can justify what Israel is doing the more I read about it the more am shocked that thay can get away with so much and no one does anything and every time someone speaks up against the situation the word "anti Semitic" get used to shut people up

history repeating itself this time a Palestinian holocaust and the world just standing by and watching it happen

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The Palestinians have been mistreated for many years, and not only by the Israeli state. Go and see how well they are treated in other parts of the Middle East and you will see they are exploited there, too (e.g. employment status and rights in the Gulf Arab states). They are a convenient and unfortunately willing pawn for Iranian scumbags to use, also.

Alas, Palestinians allow idiots into positions of power and influence and do nothing about the latter's outrageous transgressions. (Sending children as suicide bombers, etc.)

You are right that, once again, the Israeli response is disproportionate and many wholey innocent Palestinians are being killed. Plus ca change.

There is no simple solution to this, and as I said already, whether the rest of the world got involved or not, it would not change.

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May I ask if any of you have actually gone beyond what the media portray as truth? Up until recently, there was never a "Palestinian" nation. If you research you will find that what they consider the "palistinian people" are actually Arabs (from the surrounding nations) who where barred from returning to their natural country after Israel was formed. The so called occupied stated were earned when, six years after the state of islreal was officially formed and on a sabbath (meaning no work, only the most essential of services running), some of the surrounding Arab countries joined to decimate Israel. Against all odds they were defeted and pushed back. The area that they were pushed back from is a buffer zone now... The "occupied area" . Strange how those territories are considered occupied and "illegal", even though they were acquired fair and square. If that is occupied territory, what about the Falkland Islands to Britain? Northern Ireland? There are so many examples of land taken illegally but not considered illegal or occupied.

It is a fact that the media is very biased towards "palastinians" when the threat really comes from them.

Consider this:

All the Arab countries( and Muslims in general) surrounding islreal desire not the land that the Israelis live on, but the total inhillation of -ALL the Jewish people. That is a well documented fact and you don't have to go very far to hear what the leaders of those countries say they want to do with Israel.

-The land that is now Israel was a fruitless, desolate land no one wanted until it was considered the land of Israel.

The most astounding thing about all this is that most people will agree that the media only reveals what they want people to believe, yet most people believe it anyway, no questions asked!

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Where is Tony Blair, the peace envoy? Talk about an oxymoron.

What I don't understand is why the areas of the world in which religion appears to play the biggest part in people's lives are also those in which violence is at its worst. The Israelis, to my limited knowledge, are fairly spiritual, religious folk, as are the Arabs. Yet they appear to foster this deep hatred of each other. It is a David and Goliath scenario but If my family were killed by a Hamas rocket, I would probably act disproportionately. Who is to blame? usually it's whoever fired the first shot but this tit for tat has gone on for so long it is irrelevant now. They need some intellectual giant from outside to mediate, someone respected by both sides. That excludes the warmongering Brits and Americans (name one heavyweight, well respected deep thinker in our cabinet). A Henry Kissinger or Mo Mowlem (who largely engineered peace in Northern Ireland, although others took credit for it)) might have had a chance. I will risk ridicule now and say that one of the few politicians who seems to be grounded and to speak sensibly is George Galloway. I like him, although it may be because he also despises the detached, arrogant, privileged, uncaring fat ba****ds who are in charge at the moment.

Amazing how few politicians will speak openly. The Arab spring we precipitated is a disaster and the only thing that would make things worse over there is for the West to get involved.

It's very depressing and the sight of terrified Palestinians and the rising death toll is doing Israel no favours. Not exactly the caring, gentle folk portrayed in Schindler's List

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Regardless of,the tit for tat politics, it's an outrage...600 killed recently, 400"CIVILIANS....I would, I must add, feel as strongly if the boot was on the other foot...this is both an abuse of military power and a misuse, or non-use of diplomatic power...

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At least Israel has a democratically elected government, whereas Hamas are a terrorist organisation, with no remit from anybody, and are cowardly enough to quite often store their weapons in hospitals and schools, knowing that if they are destroyed they will gain huge publicity from it.

If a terrorist organisation (the IRA, Al-Quaida, whoever) set up camp on the Isle of Man and were using it as a base to launch missiles on Manchester and Liverpool, I wonder how long it would be before the UK government would take action against them? And yet Hamas are doing the same thing to Israel, repeatedly bombing its major cities from their strongholds in Gaza.

It's a very complex situation, but blaming Israel for disproportionate action against the "poor Palestinians" is a vast over simplification!

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May I ask if any of you have actually gone beyond what the media portray as truth? Up until recently, there was never a "Palestinian" nation. If you research you will find that what they consider the "palistinian people" are actually Arabs (from the surrounding nations) who where barred from returning to their natural country after Israel was formed. The so called occupied stated were earned when, six years after the state of islreal was officially formed and on a sabbath (meaning no work, only the most essential of services running), some of the surrounding Arab countries joined to decimate Israel. Against all odds they were defeted and pushed back. The area that they were pushed back from is a buffer zone now... The "occupied area" . Strange how those territories are considered occupied and "illegal", even though they were acquired fair and square. If that is occupied territory, what about the Falkland Islands to Britain? Northern Ireland? There are so many examples of land taken illegally but not considered illegal or occupied.

It is a fact that the media is very biased towards "palastinians" when the threat really comes from them.

Consider this:

All the Arab countries( and Muslims in general) surrounding islreal desire not the land that the Israelis live on, but the total inhillation of -ALL the Jewish people. That is a well documented fact and you don't have to go very far to hear what the leaders of those countries say they want to do with Israel.

-The land that is now Israel was a fruitless, desolate land no one wanted until it was considered the land of Israel.

The most astounding thing about all this is that most people will agree that the media only reveals what they want people to believe, yet most people believe it anyway, no questions asked!

Where to start, there's so much in there. Let's start with this: were you to ask the general public about the number of deaths on each side, they would grossly understate the lopsided nature of the conflict. I'm sure you know, right, Hugo? The western media is far more likely to report rocket fire (few casualties, thankfully) than drone attacks with the dozens of fatalities caused in the collateral damage.

As for saying there never was a Palestinian nation, that's about as daft an argument for your PoV as you can imagine. Up until the middle of the last century, there wasn't a state called Israel, either. You may like to know that Israel got to become a state thanks to ... are you ready for this, Hugo ... terrorism. (Late 1940s campaign against the British.)

More mistakes? OK, Jordan, Egypt and the Lebanon do not seek the annihilation of Israel. Most Arab states accept Israel's existence now. Only a few rogue religious entities want the annihilation of Israel (primarily Iran, which is not an Arab state).

Apart from that, well done! ;)

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At least Israel has a democratically elected government, whereas Hamas are a terrorist organisation, with no remit from anybody, and are cowardly enough to quite often store their weapons in hospitals and schools, knowing that if they are destroyed they will gain huge publicity from it.

If a terrorist organisation (the IRA, Al-Quaida, whoever) set up camp on the Isle of Man and were using it as a base to launch missiles on Manchester and Liverpool, I wonder how long it would be before the UK government would take action against them? And yet Hamas are doing the same thing to Israel, repeatedly bombing its major cities from their strongholds in Gaza.

It's a very complex situation, but blaming Israel for disproportionate action against the "poor Palestinians" is a vast over simplification!

Alas, Israel is not a democracy. It wasn't founded on democratic principles, and the current veneer of democracy is paper thin, if you choose to look more closely. Some info: http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/Is-Israel-a-true-democracy-352445

I'm aware it looks like I'm pro-Palestinian. I'm not, but I prefer to be even-handed and counter factual errors.

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the comment about the media being biased towards palestine is a joke it's a fact that the media is biased towards Israel Israeli soldiers kill civilians everyday I don't hear about it in the media yet one a rocket is fired "no one killed" it's headline news and the refusal of a a charity appeal on tv because it was for gaza couldn't be anymore biased against Palestinians if you look up the definition of a terror state sums up Israel very well

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May I ask if any of you have actually gone beyond what the media portray as truth? Up until recently, there was never a "Palestinian" nation. If you research you will find that what they consider the "palistinian people" are actually Arabs (from the surrounding nations) who where barred from returning to their natural country after Israel was formed. The so called occupied stated were earned when, six years after the state of islreal was officially formed and on a sabbath (meaning no work, only the most essential of services running), some of the surrounding Arab countries joined to decimate Israel. Against all odds they were defeted and pushed back. The area that they were pushed back from is a buffer zone now... The "occupied area" . Strange how those territories are considered occupied and "illegal", even though they were acquired fair and square. If that is occupied territory, what about the Falkland Islands to Britain? Northern Ireland? There are so many examples of land taken illegally but not considered illegal or occupied.

It is a fact that the media is very biased towards "palastinians" when the threat really comes from them.

Consider this:

All the Arab countries( and Muslims in general) surrounding islreal desire not the land that the Israelis live on, but the total inhillation of -ALL the Jewish people. That is a well documented fact and you don't have to go very far to hear what the leaders of those countries say they want to do with Israel.

-The land that is now Israel was a fruitless, desolate land no one wanted until it was considered the land of Israel.

The most astounding thing about all this is that most people will agree that the media only reveals what they want people to believe, yet most people believe it anyway, no questions asked!

I think that's a more accurate response than most people would be prepared to believe. The Israelis have been persecuted for thousands of years. Israel is a country always on the defense because they have to be. Today they are surrounded by 200 million hostile Arabs, who's sole intent is that Israel ceases to be. Yasser Arafat, who LED the PLO for around 30 years, put on a smiling face for the media, but had a map of the Middle East drawn up without Israel featuring on it, this was his aim, the annihilation of Israel, and he won the Nobel peace prize! Hamas say they want to finish what Hitler failed to do. Interesting how often people that are anti Israel are very often anti USA, without the US, it's unlikely Israel would exist today.

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The Bullet and the Bomb never achieved anything other than Terror, Death, Maiming no matter who fires at who. Oh yes, western governments and companies get very rich on supplying them.

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At least Israel has a democratically elected government, whereas Hamas are a terrorist organisation, with no remit from anybody, and are cowardly enough to quite often store their weapons in hospitals and schools, knowing that if they are destroyed they will gain huge publicity from it.

If a terrorist organisation (the IRA, Al-Quaida, whoever) set up camp on the Isle of Man and were using it as a base to launch missiles on Manchester and Liverpool, I wonder how long it would be before the UK government would take action against them? And yet Hamas are doing the same thing to Israel, repeatedly bombing its major cities from their strongholds in Gaza.

It's a very complex situation, but blaming Israel for disproportionate action against the "poor Palestinians" is a vast over simplification!

Having a democratically elected government is pretty meaningless, even for us. We have a democratically elected government, the Tories having received 36%of the vote. This has resulted in the deliberate, ideological destruction of the public sector, deliberate suppression of the working classes (and middle classes) with continual reduction of earnings (whilst the rich get richer), savage attacks on the vulnerable in our society, blatant pandering to big businesses, ,the financial institutions and bankers, accelerated selling off of OUR assets, unhealthy close relationships with the press and some extremely dodgy party donors, cash for honours, cash for lobbying and in my opinion,rampant corruption between politicians and businesses etc behind the scenes, on a par with many third world countries . Isn't democracy wonderful?

A democratically elected government also took us into illegal wars, wasted hundreds of military lives on campaigns in Afghanistan etc. What thanks did our lads and lasses get? largely, redundancy.The " Man on the Clapham Omnibus "could have told you that as soon as we went in, terrorist training would be moved elsewhere, and that as soon as we left, the Taliban would move back in. We have left a trail of death and destruction across the middle east because our democratically elected government (of all stripes) have their own agendas and lack the foresight or the intellect to realise the consequences of their actions. We are still complicit in the cowardly practice of air strikes from drones, in which thousands of civilians have been, and are still being killed. They are allowed to fire their missiles based on "profiles" of individuals or groups they are watching from thousands of feet up. So a community meeting is assumed to be a terrorist meeting and they are blown to pieces. It is criminal and no wonder the West is universally hated in many regions. How many of the people affected by this slaughter will turn to terrorism? The only people to benefit from our democratically elected government are themselves, the rich, bankers, the arms manufacturers and makers of prosthetic limbs.

So what is democracy and what is a terrorist? When Russia invaded Afghanistan, the Taliban were freedom fighters, supported and armed by the CIA, now they are terrorists. In the 1970's Sinn Fein were terrorists, now they are politicians.To call this a struggle between a democracy and terrorists is too simplistic and is also pointless. I feel for both sides and cannot imagine what their lives must be like.

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Setting the entrenched support for Israel (and the consequential voting/financial influences) in the US, aside...there will never be a solution (IMO) until the faith/religious problem of Jerusalem is resolved. Until Jerusalem is taken out of the equation (as much chance as me changing an engine!) then there will be no peace.

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Considering the complexity of the problem which has been around for thousands of years, the level of argument and discussion here is superb. Step aside government and the ruling classes The LOC is taking over and the world will be a better place for it. Mike

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We have the ones mans terrorist is another freedom fighter situation here....we must remember I guess, our own hands are not exactly clean here...the british were responsible for wholesale slaughter during colonial times, and we weren't alone...most European countries went to town on indigenous peoples in country's they claimed because, in the words of the inimitable, eddie izzard, they had a 'flaeg'...(flag). More recently The death toll in various Arab countries from American and British bombing has included many civilians, which we tend to forget...History is, after all, written by the winners.

I am a fourth year philospher and perhaps optimsiltically tend to believe that people are inherently decent, along the lines Immanuel Kant suggested....the last few years are shaking my faith in humanity....at least when I shut the door of my ls400 the outside world disappears and I am ensconced in a bubble of quiet and peace to contemplate where we are going wrong!!....

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Death toll now about 1600 plus inc 300 children to around 50....almost universal apathy towards this due to the political and historical sensitivities involved. This is a horrendous, embarrassing indictment towards our 'civilised' United Nations and a flagrant flaunting of human rights REGARDLESS who is too blame....I feel great shame to be a priveledge, educated westerner...

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Death toll now about 1600 plus inc 300 children to around 50....almost universal apathy towards this due to the political and historical sensitivities involved. This is a horrendous, embarrassing indictment towards our 'civilised' United Nations and a flagrant flaunting of human rights REGARDLESS who is too blame....I feel great shame to be a priveledge, educated westerner...

Being a privileged educated westerner is the beginning of the problem as far as our opinions go. If we were middle easterners, with a knowledge of our history we would be in a position to comment with more accuracy, as westerners we can only comment on what we hear and see through the media, and what our thoughts about human compassion tell us. It's a sad world we live in sometimes, In the entire history of the world as we know it, there has only been 250 years of peace!

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Perhaps we have no need for oranges or weapons of war....?....cynical, perhaps...but when you look at the conflicts we have intervened in they seem to have been underpinned by natural resources and political popularity...the west sat by for Rwanda....and Mugabe and his hatchet men...and now Israel...my point is regardless of blame, regardless of who threw the first rock....this is wholesale slaughter from a civilised country to another and one which should not be tolerated. One cannot and should not generalise but ****, this is murder of women and children, the targeting of hospitals and schools, civilian houses...by the fourth biggest army in the world, by a country that spends more per capita on 'defence' than any other...the minority extremists who mistakenly or otherwise fight these people with rocks don't sound like extremists so much as optimists....

This constant bombarding and brutal killing of a civilian people because of cultural and religious differences should have a resonance with the Jewish people and I hope and pray common sense intercedes before this escalates and we have a middle eastern genocide.

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I can't help wondering why our politicians are tiptoeing around Israel. Even taking into account the spineless, unprincipled, self serving, greedy, fat, useless nature of our current crop of "leaders", they have been remarkably quiet over the daily slaughter of innocents. Haven't similar acts in Bosnia etc. resulted in charges of war crimes? Israel do not produce oil as far as I know, or much else except oranges ( and I will never knowingly buy an Israeli product ever again). Nick Clegg has spoken up, but who the hell listens to him any more? He jumps on any bandwagon to try and save his dying career (he'll probably end up buried in a well paid job in Europe)

I was wondering if perhaps it's the perception of Israel as strategically important in the middle east (dubious), or perhaps their importance as customers for our arms exports. Either way, we are now forever associated with them and aside from the shame in this, it must increase the likelihood of our being targets for terrorists. Who can blame them? Strange how these arms exports are suddenly under review by our Government, but only after they were exposed by a journalist, the hypocritical, two faced bastards. I hope they enjoy their long holidays

Imagine a terrorist blowing up one of our schools. What would the reaction be? Even the IRA never stooped that low, although, ironically, I believe the Nazis did. Perhaps the Israelis believe the Palestinians are Untermenschen?

Sorry about the rant, but it sickens me.

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