The Mole

I accept that this is nature of modern business these days. We have a choice - stick with it or do something else. I have no problem with that. What interests me is when people make all these comparisons between one dealer and the next based on all the various factors that come under the canopy of 'service' but buy elsewhere purely on price. Like I said, the odd one or two of you will value the service, but trust me - as someone who has done this for many many years, 99% of you don't value the service. You like and enjoy it, but won't pay for it. As this is the case in most car dealers, it is only the sales person's own proffessional pride that makes them give good service, as they know full well that if they do an average job or a fantastic job, the customer will buy from whoever gives the biggest discout, so why bother bending over backwards in the first place. I try my very best, but my results are no better than far less interested or pasionate collegues I've worked with over the years. In response to Dayglows, the level of discout is not dictated to by the salesman, but by the dealer he works for. And no, it doesn't balance out. But you have conveniently proved my point though about buying on price. This is fine, but if service doesn't count come crunch time, people shouldn't complain about differing levels of service because ultimately, it won't change where they buy the car from. Eg, if you visited three dealers and the y guy who gave the least impressive service was the cheapest, who would you buy from? Also, and this is coming purely from a sales persons point of view, we are paid for selling cars, so when a customer "brings it to us for servicing" we do not get any bennefit from this, or recognition. Oh, one thing that REALLY winds us up is when the customer we invested hours with who buys elsewhere brings his shiney new car in for us to admire and asks us to explain all the MM controls because the 'order taker' at the supplying dealer didn't do the handover properly in the first place. Imagine how that would make you feel. And yes, people really do that!

It's only a diesel problem caused by excessive vibration from the engine when labouring in 6th gear off boost where there is not much torque - i.e below 2k rpm. This is due to inappropriate gearing. That is so the co2 emmissions are competitive. Engine produces very little torque off boost because it has a VERY low compression ration of 15:1 where diesels are normally in excess of 20:1. This is so they can use an all alluminium engine block which is almost unheard of in diesel circles. Did you know the gearbox is lifted from the American Toyota Tundra pick up truck, as it was the only transmission available to them that was rear wheel drive, would take the diesel stress loads and would fit in the car. Yes, that's why the gear change is as refined and positive as a pick up truck.

Interesting comments. It's nice to see that excellent service, product knowledge, quality demonstration and timely courtous follow up calls are appreciated. It's such a shame that they don't seem to be worth a damn when it's time to put pen to paper.... Sorry to urinate on any bonfires, but I've lost count of the amount of times that you put your heart and soul into trying trying to sell a car to a potential customer only for them to buy elsewhere purely on price. They're happy to enjoy the local demonstration, the excellent service and gather all the information, the quotes, the second demonstration, the third demonstration just to make sure they don't prefer this option or that etc, then the guy on the end of the phone at dealer 'x' miles away, who they don't know from Adam, who hasn't lifted a finger just blows the doors off a car with a silly discount knowing that once you've collected the car and driven back to your local area, he'll never see you again, and any problems will be dealt with by the local 'friendly' dealer with the excellent service. Happens every single day. People can go on all day about service and proffesionalism, but they don't seem to understand that good service costs, and 99% of customers aren't prepared to pay for it and shhow zero loyalty to someone who has spent hours of their time to try and sell a car. Also, whilst we're at it - would it be so hard to show even the remotest sniff of preffesional courtesy and return a salesman's call or message? We know you get the messages.... What should we feel towards a person who we've invested serious time and resources into only for them to blank our every call and message for the next two weeks?

The new mirror 'fix' cures the symptoms but doesn't solve the problem. The engine is still labouring off boost (under 2k rpm) due to the well known 'over geared' issue.

The ECU re-map is not designed to improve economy, it is designed to improve off boots flexibility to 'help' with the over geared 6th etc and reduce noise. If some have experience an improvement in mpg, good for you, but that was not it's purpose. If you're getting 39mpg, you're doing okay. The figures advertised are produced by the standard government rolling road test. If they are wrong, the problem is with the test, not the car. If you aren't getting any warning lights and your car's had the ecu mod, there is simply nothing your dealer can do as there is no 'fault'. Those who talk about replacement injectors have suffered a problem caused by a design issue with the 5th injector that is there to help with emissions. Problems with this can cause issues elsewhere. The bottom line remains unchanged. The base/SE/SE-L has an over geared final drive ratio put in place to give decent co2 results on the government test to make it copetitive to company car drivers who like it or not, make up over 90% of IS diesel buyers. As said before, as soon as co car drivers are taxed on the new euro 5 emissions standards which the car was designed for (and is only 50% making it the cleanest diesel for its size in the world) maybe they will change the gearing to make the car more user friendly, but don't expect a change in economy, all that will happen is that the competitors diesels mpg figures will fall in line as soon as they are forced to run all the emissions control hardware. Sorry....

Mine's just past the 1,000 mile mark and has just jumped from mid 30's to about 40.(driven fairly gently and mostly on motorways). 'Off boost' vibration has reduced a bit too. Still over geared though. Yak! Drove a sport the other day - almost under geared, but what a difference to motorway driving. 6th in the sport is almost the same as 5th in the SE. Boost comes in at 60mph in top making motorwaydriving fantastic! Only problem is that you're in 3rd gear before you reach the middle of the round-about....

One thing I have noticed and can't find a single reason that stands up logically is that whenever we fit 18" accessory wheels, the economy drops by up to 5mpg overall! Same rolling diameter, same width of tyre, same offset etc - work that one out!

No, it won't reset itself - it is a permanent change to the software - just the same way that if you turn your computer off, it doesn't change back to Windows 3.1.... :) The upgrade is only available in the UK as the 5th injector issue has only occured in the UK. The fringe bennefits to running are just a bonus to what the mod is actually designed to do.

It is a 'plug in' software update. I'll try and find the ref number for you.

Only go for SE-L if you want / need the extra equipment, it won't be worth much more if any than an SE come resale. MM is always worth getting IMHO. Sat Nav makes a car much more desireable to the used buyer, especially with the new phone laws etc. Auto every time. Used approved? - Depends on too many factors - anything form zero to several hundred pounds, but there are too many factors to consider to give a meaningful answer I'm affraid. Any dealer offering more than a £700 - £800 'deal' on a used car has over priced it to start with, or employs muppets for sales people.

But on a steady throttle position, the turbo spins slowly pruducing very little boost, just enough to run efficiently without labouring the engine which is what causes the vibration when you accellerate under 2krpm. Only when you put your foot down does the turbo spool up to speed to give you the extra power / fuel used - hence turbo lag. I've run my diesel for a while now and have averaged 37 mpg with a mix of gentle driving. There are three problems. 1) Engine is rough when off boost causing 6th to vibrate and generally be unpleasent to use under 2krpm. The ecu mod helps a great deal, but the problem still exists. 2) The gear ratios are hopeless. Way too tall and wide spaced given the power band and lack of engine flexibility - see problem 1. 3) It is not an economical engine. All the above points are attributed to lowering emissions for Euro V. Just so you are all aware, Lexus have commited to having an 'ALL HYBRID' showroom by 2014. No petrol only, no diesel, just hybrid. Why didn't they do a hybrid IS straight away? Not enough space for the batteries used at present. As soon as lithium polymer batteries can be made safe enough, watch this space.

Lots of cars were coming in with warning lights on and poor running due to failed 5th injectors. Before Lexus came up with a fix, normal diagnostics pointed to injectors, so dealers changed then as a matter of elimination, even though there wasn't really anything wrong with them - but changing the 5th one and resetting the fault code sorted things out for a while....

Sport is not quite as economical, but much nicer to drive due to more appropriate ratios. Every car has the same government test in a big fridge on a rolling road - it's the only way to get repeatability into the test. If a car doesn't do that in the real world with a real driver, then the test is at fault, not the car. Just so we are clear - there is not a replacemt injector that will make a difference. The onldifference would be if there was a fault with the original one and it has been replaced with the same design that is working correctly. The only thing it could be is if they have done the ecu mod at the same time, or the engine has been struggling in limp mode for a while. The only injector that has changed in design is the 5th injector.

Any mpg figures that start with a 4 are a result. The 'choke' as you say is not a 'choke' in the old fashioned sense of the word. It is an 'idle load' compensator. If you put a load on the engine at idle from the a/c, heated seats etc, the ecu ramps the idle speed up to about 1100 - 1300. This is to stop unburnt diesel fouling the cat and injectors if the engine revs are dragged below the set idle speed due to load. All in the name of emissions etc. The ecu mod was brought in to answer some of the critisism that the car has had from launch - 6th, sluggish under 2k rpm, vibration in 6th due to labouring at 70 mph etc. Oh, and a little fuel economy, but that is only a by product of the mod if your driving style complements the new mapping. The injector change is not a modification, just a change under warranty if there has been a problem. The only injector that is different is the '5th' injector that is there purely to help with emissions and cat cleaning. I picked up my new (and first) diesel a few days ago with every mod bell and whistle available. Taking my Lexus cap of for a minute, all I can report is that it is very smooth, very quiet, very well made, but the compromised gear rations are driving me mad. There, I've said it. Any car you buy will include a compromise of some description. It could be price, dealer service, spec, quality, depreciation, looks, space, practicality - all sorts of things. There isn't a car on the road that if you bought, you wouldn't be compromising on at least 2 or 3 of the above. The Lexus delivers on many fronts, and in my case the compromise is a little drivability. It's a frustration I share with you all and one that has been brought upon us due to emission regs. Notice how nobody complains about the diesel sport......? This is because it has the gear ratios that the factory wanted to give it, but yields higher co2 emissions making it uncompetitive under the CURRENT euro 4 taxation regs......

I'll look into the B pillar noise. 9 times out of 10 it is a very small gap or misalignment in the window seal trim. Not common, but I have seen it twice before. With a few thousand miles, yes the engine will run a little more efficiently, but we are only talking 2-3 mpg at best. Driving at revs where the engine is on boost will make it more efficient as the turbo is helping the engine breath. You will only use more fuel on boost if you are using it to accellerate quickly with a wide open throttle. The ecu mod doesn't change the boost you get a 2k rpm, but it will allow the engine to be a little more flexible below 2k giving a slightly more unioform torque curve as boost comes on-line due to different injection mapping. On the emissions front, the IS diesel engine is the cleanest (total emissions) diesel for its size in the world. Has much lower NOX, particulates etc. Also, if you pay co car tax, euro 4 will get VERY expensive as soon as they tax you against euro 5. People with an IS will be much better off. October next year for those thart care.

The main reason for poor mpg is driving style. It will not suddenly improve by 40% as you do more mileage. We have had several customers complain about poor mpg, and several report that they are happy with the 40 - 45 mpg that they are getting. I personally have driven a couple of customers cars who have complained about poor mpg and instantly got 38 - 43 without trying as I know how to extract the best from them. The engine is very powerfull and using the torque and power, enjoying the 2k + rpm shove in the back when the turbo really kicks in will yield high comsuption - as will batting up and down the motorway at 85+ mph I can't give a set of instructions of how to drive a car as that would be nothing short of patronising, but they can and will give decent mpg if driven in a certain manner that doesn't involve driving Miss Daisy, or labouring 6th at 60mph. It was the same when the RX400h was launched. Some customers came back complaining they could only get 27mpg. You ask the customer to take you out in their car and instantly they are putting their foot down, overtaking all the traffic using heavy on or off throttle inputs. You ask to swap and drive their car back to the centre driving smoothly and in sympathy with the system and technology and hey presto 35mpg. The customer then says "Well, if you're going to drive like that then of course it will do the figures..." Yup..... Performance OR economy, not both at the same time. I understand that lots of you might be used to driving VW/Audi 1.9 tdi's with good performance and 50+ mpg, BMW's too, and to suddenly find that you have to struggle to get 40 must be a bit of a shock, but as soon as the competition bring their Euro 5 complient diesels out, it will be the same story for them. Lexus were just the first to market with a Euro 5 diesel. The emissions equipment on the new diesels is extreme to say the least and really does strangle the motor.

That's an interesting thought. I presume owners will have to ask for the final drive ratio to be 'fixed' after Euro 5? I can't imagine that it'll be a routine upgrade / change like the ECU change. I assume that will not be free but chargable?? it looks like an easy fix. Basically you need to change one sprocket-wheel in the differential and reprogramm ECU to show the correct speed. BUT -the differential may be sealed in special way and maybe it won't be possible to seal it again like in factory -the acces to the differential may be difficult etc. If it will be possible, I don't see that there will be less work than 10 hours + count some sealings + sprocket wheel. Count it together and - would you pay for it? Forget about it. If they do change the final drive, it will be treated as 'on-going product improvement' - in the same way as new sat nav software is, or going from a 4 to a 5 speed auto box, or upgrading the RX300 to a RX350. It won't be a cae of "here's a fix for that problem", it will be more like " The latest new IS diesel drives even better now..."

No worries. I know what you mean though. As soon as Euro 5 comes into force next year, we can hopefully get a better final drive ratio somwhere in the middle betweenthe sport and the base/SE. That will cure all the 6th gear issues, flexibility, vibration etc. Along with the ecu mod we now have, will leave us with the car that the engineers wanted to give us in the first place, rather than the compromise we have now, just so it satisfies the company car drivers pocket. Personally, I think we shouldn't have even bothered with a diesel in the first place, even though I get my new one on Monday...... Only for the same reason that I hope Ferrari don't ever make and estate.

Yup, still here..... I hid in my hole for a while until the heat died down a bit...... On a serious note though, please be aware that although you may not like what I report, I will only tell you how it is. I have no axe to grind on either side of the fence. TMC are as you say are a huge company with Lexus being a small division. You'd be amazed at how in some instances, they opperate quite independantly of each other. Yes, in some areas, the diesel is compromised - in our case the transmission used isn't ideal and due to the CO2 issue, although with Euro 5 round the corner, this should allow the use of more appropriate gearing when the new emissions regs show the car to be comparitively 'ultra clean' - nox, sulphur, particulates etc. Trust me - as soon as the competition are forced to comply with euro 5, their mpg figures will tumble - I know this for a fact as I've spoken to a senior development engineer for a major German car manufacturere who are currently scratching their heads over the matter. Other manufacturers compromise too, more that you would think. I still maintain that the IS is a very smooth, quiet, quality, safe and well equipped car. As I say, all I can give you are the facts as I get them, but I don't want to get into a debate over what I cannot change. I'll keep quiet if that is your preference, but there may be people that would like to know reasons for things rather than PR answers from service departments?

Lexus don't make the engine, it's a Toyota engine that is used in a few different models. The amount of money spent on development would be based on sales figures for all models not just the IS220d. The auto box from the LS430 and GS430 can easily handle the torque of the IS220d engine. Toyota don't make any of their auto boxes anyway, they leave that to their parnter Aisin AW. Toyota have also used other manufactures in the past for gearboxes, Getrag being one. Yes, it is a Toyota engine, but the engine isn't anything to do with the development costs of the gearbox. Yes, the GS/LS trans can cope with the torque, but they cannot cope with the long life fatigue that the power pulse gennerated by the higher compression diesel engine creates. Also, all the ratios woud need to be altered to meet the torque curve and lower revs of the diesel engine, although this is a minor point. The key point is that any box used needs to be RWD, and there isn't a trans available elsewhere in the company that will do the job in termes of strength, longevity, size etc. All I am doing is trying to answer some questions with accurate information. Please carry on debating it if your not happy, but the information will stay the same.

Is your username any sort of hint at how you know all this/ :winky: Yes...

Yes, all diesels will have the mod done, without asking. They will come from the factory like that very soon. Whether you get better mpg or not will depend on how much you drive at lower revs where more of the improvement will be felt.

Some information for you all, in no particular oder. 1) Luxus Japan didn't want to make a diesel, but eventually and reluctantly agreed after intense lobbying from Lexus Europe. 2)To keep developmental costs down, as there will only ever be a comparitively low number of diesels sold globally, they used the manual transmission from the American Toyota Tundra pick up truck, hence the very tall sixth gear to satisfy the US highway mpg stats. They used this trans as it was the only trans in the entire Toyota group that could handle the torque of the new diesel motor and was rear wheel drive - hence the problem isn't in the front wheel drive Avensis. 3)The reason there is no auto is that there is no rear wheel drive auto trans anywhere in the Toyota group that would handle the torque, and they would never use anyone elses trans. They wouldn't sell enough to justify the developmental costs of an all new auto trans just to fit in one model sold in very samll numbers. 4)The sport and SE trans are the same - only the fianl drive ration in the diff is different. 5) Diesels are mainly company cars. To be competitive, you need low CO2 figures. To achieve this, they gave it a high final drive ratio which made 6th too tall, but the car is attractive from a co car taxation perspective. 6) Co car tax is changing from purely CO2, to a more balanced view of total emissions. The IS diesel is the cleanest in the world for it's size. As soon as this happens, the final drive will be able to be changed. 7) The lexus diesel is the first euro 5 complient diesel. This makes it not as economical as people expect. As soon as other manufacturers bring out euro 5 diesels, their mpg figures will drop in to line with the Lexus. 8) 5th injector that is responsible for all the limp modes and warning lights has nothing to do with noise, vibration, mpg, flexability - this is down to the ecu mapping and gearing. 9) They can't change the gearing until the new emissions regs allow them to - late next year. 10) The mod to the ecu changes the way the fuel injection opperates and nothing else. It gives more power under the turbo zone allowing more torque under 2k revs, hence the engine won't labour as much at 70mph in 6th, reducing vibration and also injector noise. 11) All dealers now know about the mod and every time a diesel comes into the workshop, the mod will be done whether the customer knows or asks about it or not. 12) If the engine produces more torque lower down, it will in turn use a little less fuel, depending on how you drive it. 12). This is an 'update', not a fix - that would be to admit there was a problem. Like it or loathe it - that's how it is.

Mine's quiet as a mouse - any obvioous wind noise that stands out from general atmosphric wind noise is a problem that needs looking at. ECT-i stands for electronic-control-transmission-intelligent and is linked to the throttle pedal. When activated, it sharpens and quickens the gearchanges when in sport/paddle shift mode, and holds a gear longer after sudden lift off before changing up if in normal auto mode - usefull when trying to overtake somthing but are forced to hesitate for a moment.

Sport has slightly lower ride height to compensate for 18" wheels and slightly stiffer springs. Couldn't feel the difference in Monaco, but then again they have propper roads, rather than the coal mine walls we have to drive on, so who knows? I suspect it might be a little too firm over here? We shall see...