fil4362

That will do one reply/opinion is enough. ha ha

I have been on my photobucket account today came across this old picture. its a sport grill with a row of led lights on the underside of the top edge. They stopped working years ago (cheap leds) and had forgotten all about them. Do i replace them or are they cheese ?

this take away equals This failed for a whole in structural area, the same garage that failed it did the work. they must use some super silicone because i wasnt aware a dozen tacks and half a tube of bathroom sealer was a structural repair.

Heres two pictures they are from a Ford Focus 1600 duro tdci. Guess the reason why the car wouldnt start and the close up

Its the japan equivelant of te tax discs . I have had 6 or 7 jap import people carriers all had them on. Strangely though it seems to not matter where on the car it goes. my current Toyota has it on the rear screen yet the honda it was on the front, As for made in Japan sticker missing being a reason to walk away from buying a car what tosh. My lex had a screen 2 years ago never had a problem any screen not fitted properly will leak not a problem unique to the Lexus the problem is unique to useless screen fitters. My boss doesnt like buying cars that dont have the original dealer number plates on them he thinks it means they have been crashed and needed the plates changing. Its just a silly theory that doesnt hold out just like the screen sticker.

Surely not, surely surely not, a person who only a month ago claiming buying a car just for the winter was stupid hasnt just admitted he contemplated doing it himself oh my.!

So the fact this tyre labeling is now a legal rrequirement, thats legal, as in must have it by law, you ignore it because its your belief its wrong and pointless? At what point did i say they dont work , i mearky said over and over again that for the winter we have you can manage without which is exactly what every experts says. Which is exactly why i pointed out the thousands of miles covered every year by expert drivers without winter tyres. Yes the Lexus is crap in the winter i never said it was good, i mearly claimed right from my first post that i drive to match the weather conditions. I choose to buy a 4x4 for the winter as last year i lost out on "work" as the Lexus wouldnt do what i needed it to do. Bare in mind the nature of my hobby/work (i do it volantery for under privaladged kids I dont get paid all the time but as its for a charity its technically work) and the fact i have already pointed out the Lexus barely does the job in the summer, this is my need to buy a 4x4 for the winter as i dont want anyone to miss out on a trip because the weather is bad again bare in mind this involves of road driving and totally not normal driving conditions. I manage just fine on the roads in the Lexus. For me buying another car for the winter is just fine, the car is cheaper than a set of tyres it doesnt affect my insurance, and i can get my money back when the sun comes out again. where as you will have to tell your insurance company you have "modified your car" store the other wheels for months and then due to the mild winter so far probably have worn otu your winter tyres and have to buy another set next year. I also do scuba diving , am i ok to use my boat as the Lexus is also crap on the ocean? The winter tyres work better in the cold i accept this but does a normal tyres suddenly get dangerous at 7 degrees and a bit wet? no. They work better in the cold better than they do in the warm even the manufactureres say they work worse in the warm dry so of course they work better in the cold but a standard tyre doesnt become bad does it. Millions of people a year drive millions of miles in the winter without them and will do so again this year. Just for fun the winter tyre listed on the tyre label above was a skinny tyre,accepted by everyone to be better in the snow, fitted to a front wheel drive car, accepted by most to be better in the snow, on a car that covers 500 miles a year as the bloke is semi retired and lives 3 miles from his office. now did this guy really need winter tyres? i gladly sold him some although he only wanted the front 2 at the time of the original order. His son convinced him to get a pair for the rear as well, but then his son is the affore mentioned "only customer" to ask for them. On a slightly diffrent note i have noticed an increased number of cars this year with winter tyres fitted, but during the summer and just one. Theres a growing number of part worn tyre places in my area fitting them as they are cheap to get in summer. This to more is more dangerous and silly than not fitting them in the winter. Anyway i rest my case on this post as i am now really bored with it even after giving photographic evidance supported by the new government legally required scheme that they dont always give better grip... once again and for the final time i see not reason to buy winter tyres as they are expensive for what they are and we dont really get long enough spells of bad enough weather in this country to warrent them. I feel that the fact non of the biggest fleet companies use them, emergancy services dont use them, rospa havnt bothered to do a study on them, the biggest motoring organisation in europe dont use them, non of the dealers including Lexus in my area are recomending them I cant find one expert who whole heartedly recommends them and even one poster on this thread admits he does 40,000 miles a year with out them would seem to support my thoughts that for normal road users in this country you can manage just fine without them.

http://i232.photobuc...62/phone114.jpghttp://i232.photobuc...62/phone116.jpgi think you can clearly see from those pictures that the standard tyres gives better grip than the winter tyre.this is the new industry standard labeling for tyres and has recently been governmently approved as the correct guide lines for efficiancy grip and noise. now if anyone wants to argue with the simple facts i place before you, you must be suggesting the test is wrong and the governments new system is wrong and un fair.

40,000 miles a year with them you just dont need them do you ?? and i once again refer you to my previous request show me one person, one expert that whole heartedly and un reservidly recomends the use of winter tyres in this country for all road users you cant can you because no one does go ahead go look for one to post go find some eveidance that supports your claim about winter tyres. mine and your arguement is irrelivant as you have already said you wouldnt believe me no matter what i said stick to putting in wondows for the AA matt you know the AA the biggest motoring organisation in europe ,,,,,,That doesnt use or recomened wniter tyres either show me one person, one expert that whole heartedly and un reservidly recomends the use of winter tyres in this country for all road users

it does explain why you think winter tyres a great though matt you read one line of text and asume you know everything about the subject. The rest of the paragraph goes on abotu where and how i have to drive and why the Lexus just isnt going to do the job and then explains that it only just does the job in summer ........ suggest you read your posts again I do 40,000 miles a year and havnt used winter tyres ??? dont need them do you ?? Once again show me one person, one expert that whole heartedly and un reservidly recomends the use of winter tyres in this country for all road users.

Read the post again towing a trailer,driving across fields and unmade roads This is why the Lexus is useless and the snow makes it worse. the post actually says the lexus hardley suits my needs in the summer. I have never been stuck in the Lexus in the snow not on the public highways. If you read the post it clearly states the reasons i bought the Audi and non of them are for normal driving on normal roads. You also agree the lexus is useless in the snow which is exactly why you have been ranting on with your ill informed rubbish about having them fitted. If the lexus was great in the snow there wouldnt be any need for this entire thread would there? Your entire information about them is based on someone saying "i had them last year and didnt get stuck" you have never owned a set never driven on a set cant find anyone who recomends them and manage 40,000 miles a year without them which is exactly my point, you can, which you have proven your self manage with out them When you can show me one person, one expert that whole heartedly and un reservidly recomends the use of winter tyres in this country for all road users then i may take note of them i have spent 23 years selling an fitting tyres along with every other aspect of the motor trade . You dont think if i saw any merit in winter tyres i happly would be recomending them to all my customers and making a fortune on them? I couldntt hand on heart admit "yes sir you certainly need them " and neither can anyone else say that Once again show me one person, one expert that whole heartedly and un reservidly recomends the use of winter tyres in this country for all road users.

You see matt i do follow some of the guide lines set down by some eu countries like the real cold weather countries that using skid pan and learning how to control a car in a slide is part of the test before your given a liecence to drive. I have had rear wheel drive cars for as long as i can rememeber i have had a string of rs 2000 escorts mark one and mark two. I have had capri,s sierras e30 e36 and e46 bmws all were, at some point, taken to the skid pans at the bus depot where my dad worked for years i have spent many hours clowning around in the wet snow slush loosing control on perpose. This may seem to most like boy racers messing about in super market car parks after hours, but when a car slides i can control it as i have practiced it many many times. Power sliding or drifting as some people call it is a very very hard thing to do finding the balance is very difficult, in the mean time trying you learn what is to much lock whats not enough lock and you get a feel that the car is going to break traction before it does you get to know what level of grip you actually have. Now to most this may seem like irisponsable driving , but on a closed skid pan or a closed car park what harm is done. Yes i belive its made me a better driver as anything you do over and over again does improve you i do drive diffrently on winter roads as there are other road users to concider and me "getting the tale out" on a public road how ever confortable i am with it may and probably will scare the hell out of another road user. I see the snow as a time to play not a time to stay home and be scared to go out. As for the Audi it was bought to get me through the winter as the Lexus is useless in the snow. It will also get used as a tow car for my work as its fitted with a tow bar. I am also, if you bothered to read my profile, and out door pursuits instructor as a hobby. Caving does involve going of road, crossing farmers feilds using dirt tracks and un made roads, canoeing involves towing a trailer full of canoes neither of which is even remotely possible in the Lexus in the snow. My hobbies dont really suit the Lexus even in summer but as i dont plan on stopping in the winter then a suitable replacement for the winter had to be sought. Its also cheaper than a set of winter tyres and i dont have to store it for the summer as i know it will sell on again when the sun comes out so its an all round better option then winter tyres. If i did just drive on the roads i wouldnt have bothered as since i have been driving,20 ish years i havnt bothered using winter tyres and am only testing them now as the were free i certainly wouldnt buy some. I also have an Audi a4 convertable which i refuse to drive with the roof on as thats the point of a convertable. I also own an aw11 toyota mr2,the pre glass roof version, (rear wheel drive) as some days i dont have to carry anything and just need a drive. I also have a toyota people carrier for when i have to go out with the wife and kids as 6 of us dont fit in any of the cars. These cars are the reason i dont have space to store "extra" wheels for the winter as both my garages are full of cars. You see its not even the question of money as with a 5 bed house with 2 double garages i clearly can afford them i just choose not to. The topic is now compleatly useless and pointless as you refused all my points about millions of miles driven without winter tyres by thousands of proffesional drivers. You seem to ignore the fact that no one i can find (or anyone else can find) has bothered to carry out a study of the use of winter tyres in the uk including the AA and Rospa. and by study i dont mean a motoring journalist have a car for a few weeks with them on. I now have a set of winter tyres and you still refuse my listen to my testimony about them. And no i dont now claim to be an expert on them as i own a set as one night drive in cold conditions doesnt constitute a proper test,the rest of the miles done on them so far is in "normal weather" and i wouldnt expect to see anydiffrence. You and everyone else has declined the offer to show me one person, who doesnt benifit from the tyre industry, who will unaquivically say "yes winter tyres are a must for all uk drivers" The only thing i can find is "they work better in cold conditions". does this mean when the temp gets below 7 my normal tyres stop working ? The reports i have read and have been posted on here by other posters all say "may" help,, thats "may" not oh yes get some there great! once again i cannot find one expert, and i have looked, who says yes go out and buy them so its a question of personal choice "jump on the band wagon" (words used by the northwest biggest tyre supplier) or just manage like millions of road users have done for over a hundred years . until i see proof, thats proof in this country, not a video from canada,or read a report from an expert or two about them i wont be jumping on the band wagon and buying some. i will however keep trying the ones i have now and if i see an improvement in them then i may well buy them next year,although its still cheaper to buy a 4x4.

I dont see how the octane rating being higher will give you more mpg, the only real way this would happen is if it gave more power and therefore you needed less pedal travel for the same power. more power at less revs therefore less revs needed and better fuel consumption. I didnt trip the clock on the super fuel as its roughly the same from tank to tank. The only diffrence in fuel consuption depends on my mood, and how i drive. I can get 400 miles on a tank full but this is so boring driving i also managed 300 on a tank full bottom line it doesnt matter how much it uses when its gone i need more ha ha. Morrisons is my nearest petrol station so when the lights on i go there, if i am passing the shell station and have 1/4 of a tank or so left i will go there but as someone has already mentioned the Lexus just doesnt seem to make any diffrence what ever fuel i put in. I dont dispute there is gains to be had with the super fuels but noticing it on the Lexus i havnt.

Some times i think you dont read my post. I didnt buy the tyres i bought a car which had them on.!! i still wouldnt buy a set of winter tyres. I bought a 4x4 not a set of tyres. If a car i bought has them on then why would i not use them, i took them of the audi as i really really dont think a 4x4 needs them and stuck them on the Lexus just to see what all the fuss is about. So atleast then in your eyes i will be able to talk abotu them having then experianced them. To give them a fair and honest test so to speak. The fact still remains i have had them on the car now for 300 or so miles and see no diffrence other than noise in bends ,but as i also mentioned, am willing to leave them on there for the remainder of the winter to give them a proper test as i know driving them this weather isnt what they are for. Will be interesting to go out in the lexus and actually get stuck (and i will look to get stuck) then tow it out in the audi !!! see if a 4x4 with standard tyres costing 350 is better in the snow than the lexus with 400 quid tyres on! The guy i bought the Audi of is a memeber of this site so he can/could confirm i bought the car including the tyres.

I recently put in a tank full of the shell "super" fuel what ever it is they call it. As you can tell from my previous post on this thread i dont see any value in the stuff and after a full tank of the stuff still dont.

The issue of hids and washers is now upon us within the mot test. As of yet they are mearly for inspection and not a failable item. Vosa recently introduced many new items that are now testable but the computer program has not been re written yet and the actual box to tick to fail them isnt yet on the system so hids are still not yet failable. There is diffrent styles of hids the main problem is that some have no "sheild" within the bulb. They shine light downwards within the headlight which then bounces of the chrome within the headlights causing the light to shine upwards dazzling road users. With the sheild the light is directed correctly and even gives of the required headlight pattern to pass the mot test under that section.

I use dash board shine (back to black) as a lube on all sorts of window rubbers and so forth. It has a high silicone content. I put it in window channels and is works fine. if you spray is into the channel you dont get it on the glass. I use it as i have a small used car section at my garage and always have a can of back to black kicking about.

And if you look on the "which" web site for preparing yoour car for winter is says check your tyres and then explains how to do this. It doesnt say "go out and buy winter tyres" so which magazine arent exactly promoting them either are they !! they certainly dont recomend you goo out and buy some !

tiger fish thanks for your link did you read this section 6) Do I need winter tyres in the UK? Winter tyres aren’t mandatory in this country, although they are in other parts of Europe that experience extreme weather for prolonged periods, each and every winter. The last two winters have seen three exceptionally cold spells (by UK standards), when there is no doubt, winter tyres may have been beneficial to many people. We completely understand why some people, especially those living in remote areas, are preparing their cars for winter by fitting winter tyres. It makes good sense if there’s another bad winter and you don’t fancy being cut-off. If that sounds like your situation, then try to buy the best winter tyres early in the season, for two reasons. People in rural areas could benefit First, it's no good waiting until the bad weather arrives, as you'll find you are unable to get to a tyre retailer to have them fitted. Second, the volume of tyres the manufacturers have produced for this winter is limited, meaning retailers don’t have a never-ending supply. When they are gone, they are gone and there won't be more stocks until the run-up to next winter. But these severe cold spells are unusual. For the majority of UK urban-dwellers driving in normal daytime winter conditions, it's harder to justify the expense and hassle of fitting winter tyres. Its says "may benifit" thats MAY benifit. It also points out why winter tyres are not required under law in this country and are in others as like i have said all along winters here are just not cold enough for long enough to warrent them. Then everyone should read the last paragraph which pretty well ssums up wha i have said all along. Thanks for yet again showing an expert (which magazie) shares my views that the normal man on the street doesnt really need them. Challenge to all of you !! find me an expert that says yes go out and buy them . I in my wisdom i have purchased an audi a6 quattro yes the v6 4x4 version. This is my way to deal with any real bad winter we may get this year. a 4x4 not 4 new tyres. Simply put the car is taxed and tested until the middle of next year and as it cost me 350 is cheaper than you lot are paying for a set of tyres and i also know the resale after winter will recover my cost. so i wont be getting stuck this winter and it wont cost me a chunk of change. Now matt this audi came with a set of 4 newish winter tyres vredstien something or others, i have took them of the audi using my newly purchased 3500 pound tyre machine (what idiot that knows nothing about tyres makes this sort of investment in fitting tyres??) and stuck them on my Lexus. I have covered 300 or so miles this week, including a 12;30 am drive over the snake pass (derbyshire) in a 3 degree hail storm. I noticed no diffrence in grip. Infact the only diffrence i have noticed in this 300 miles is tyre squeal when cornering. so matt i now have driven in winter tyres which makes me an expert does it? it certainly makes me more experianced than yourself. The fact i have been buying selling fitting tyres for years would make me atleast knowledgeabe in tyres. I once again point out the millions of miles each year covered by logistic companies, emergancy services, postal services that dont use winter tyres. If winter tyres showed as much merit as people claim wouldnt the cost of them be out weighed by the loss in revinue with these companies. I await the colder weather to give a more "honest test" of the winter tyres as now is not really the weather suited to them even though manufactureres are recomending fitting them from october onwards. I also await anyone to post up a link for an independant expert that whole heartedly recomends winter tyres for everyone in the uk. Someone who isnt making a living from selling tyres, and clearly states yes winter tyrres are good for all iin the uk, not just comments of MAY be of benifit to SOME people.

Matt you did 44,000 miles last year without winter tyres ???? is this nto proof enough you dont actually need them ???. merely stating people other opinions of i had them last year isnt a reason to buy them. I dodnt have them last year and didnt get stuck does that mean you now listen to my advice and buy them. I have numeroulsy quoted exerpts thoughts on them and pointed out many times the number of expert professional companies that do not use them either. I have now gather pictures of the new tyre labeling system( That as a tyre fitter of 23 years have access to). Would it suprise you if i posted a picture of a normal standard tyre with a better water/mud/ snow dispercal rating than a specific winter tyre?? Both tyres are the same make although diffrent sizes. Both tyres are continental so not a cheap tyre. So please explain to me how a winter tyre has a lower rating than a normal standard tyre. Its also less efficiant (enegry wise) and nosier although its half the width of the standard tyre? In short a 155 winter tyre rates an f in energy/fuel consuption, rates a c for water mud snow dispercal and 71db of noise yet a 195 normal tyre rates e on energy rates b on water mud snow dispersal and only 68 bd of noise ?? so the standard tyre is better at water dispersal and quieter?? surley not. and yes they are both contintental tyres!! i have a picture of a buget standard tyre that rates the same as the continental winter tyre although it rates at 75 db of noise. so the budget tyre rates the same as the more expensive one. guys these are the new tyre performance figures the stickers that come on the tyre when you buy them that get removed before you get them on your cars. these figures are put on there by the manufacturers are cannot be messed about with or smudged. they are what they are. if people want the pictures i am happy to post them up but at the end of the day they are what they are .

matt just posted at the same time and just read your most recent post , your right the AA dont use them as to fit all the vehicle would be expensive and difficult to store for the summer, but i have 2 cars mine and my wifes i havnt got room to store 8 wheels and tyres for the winter same as most other people dont have the room either. explain why you would sell them for the same money should you not wear them out ?? why not just keep them for next year?? who is going to buy winter tyres at the end of winter ?? . one poster says he had some last year and they were good so hes bought some more this year!! he clearly has worn them out and now needs some more this year. they wear out quickly by using them in conditions not suited. They are a softer compound so you run the risk of wearing them out quickly when the conditions are not right, they also work worse in warmer conditions above 7 degrees so you shouldnt really have them on. once again my point is its a lot of time effort money storage for a couple of "proper justified uses out of them"

Thank you matt for requesting that i highlight certain bits of your post it promted me to read back through a few threads. Your first post on the thread says you havnt driven with winter tyres ??? excuse me ! your entire arguement has then been based on what ? someone elses thoughts ?or an advert and a tyre sellers website. My arguement is based on the facts i have posted numerous times. 1 The biggest tyre suppliers in the northwest (my area) only sell one in twenty winter tyres and are this year for the first time stocking them but purley on the basis there is a demand as "people jump on the band wagon" 2 Non of the main dealers in my area including Lexus are saying "we think you should buy winter tyres" or stocking them or trying to sell them in anyway. 3 Not one single fleet company including the biggest 2 in the country use winter tyres. 4 the emergency services all 3 do not use them 5 insurance companies last year refused to insure or requested a premium from drivers who used them (source the AA) 6 i cant find one motoring journalist that claims a significant improvement that us the comman man should go out and buy them.i cant find anyone that is convinced its worth the cost. 7 rospa the experts against accidents havnt bothered to even research them . You have told us matt you have never used them, you have also told us your van at work runs on "big chunky truck tyres" which it doesnt (6ply light comercial tyres are not truck tyres) you also told us that you cant get a 155 tyre on a 7j rim , erm you can, sure if you look you will find a picture. it was a craze in the tuning/cruise scene a while ago. You have told us you do so many miles a year that your considered a proffesional driver , well the average person does 10,000 miles a year so i presume anything higher than this is then considered profesional. so doing the maths you do (working on 10,,000 a year minimum) aprox 800 miles a month, including through the winter not on winter tyres as your company doesnt fit them on your vehicles. Your first post also says your using bought 205 50 17 tyres ??? any reason for the diffrent size? yes a narrower section tyre will work better in the snow but 10mm smaller i doubt you would notice and why such a high profile tyre?? a 215 45 tyre has a side profile of 96.75 mm. your upgrade tyre of 205 50 gives a 102.5 mmm profile! your 10mm of width diffrence seems to make a diffrence to you are you sure the 5.75 mm of side wall wont matter? i thnk your whole arguement matt has been based on something you have read in an advert on a website selling tyres either that or its just your own opinion based on erm nothing ??? please explain just exactly why you have defended the need to use winter tyres so strongly. I have defended the "not using them" angle as its quite simple you dotn need them and with a slight change in drivign style can manage without them! as you yourself have done for all you professional career.!!

Gentleman let me explain a simple fact matt has yet failed to address.. His own words,,,," he works for the biggest motoring organisation in europe",he" deos so many miles a year hes considered a professional driver. Hes been fighting the cause for winter tyres since the begging of this thread based on him having used winter tyres for a season claiming with out them he would clearly get stuck. I would like to ask him how he manages to do so many miles in winter, in his company vehicle which isnt fitted with winter tyres a his employer doesnt see fit to use them ???

No matt you see the evidance i have provided after research is purely to enforce my point that no one that knows anything about motoring uses winter tyres. The biggest companies in the country that rely on getting about in the winter, including your employers, dont use them. The experts on all matters of accident provention havnt bothered to research them. Have you for one second thought, that despite all the evidance provided that millions of vehicles manage just fine without them and your ignoring the actual tyre manufacturers recomendations of when to use them, and with only a short experiance of using them its probably your self importance thats continuing the arguement. Only a blind man ignores the evidance. Personally as i have mentioned before i dont care what you spend your money on but as the o.p was asking about the use of them it my recomendation with evidance i may add, that hes doesnt need to spend his money as no one else uses them save a few people i have found on here. You choose to call my post drivel i choose to call it evidance. I am pretty certain that after 23 years in the trade i do know what i am talking about or i would have been out of work by now where as one year or driving with winter tyres on certainly doesnt qualify you as an expert. You work for the AA, your own organisation doesnt use them !!!!! doesnt that say anything to you

Ok i have taken a week of to reasearch this post. so here goes. Firstly i have have worked as an mot tester motor mechanic including tyre fitter for 23 years. So in any stretch of the imagination this would be considered both experianced and qualified in the matter. I do know what these tyres are claimed to do i have seen vidoes of vehicles in extream conditions stopping quicker with them on. Anyway hers some more "bumph" for you The two biggest fleet companies in the country ,the Royal mail and Allied textile suplies neither use winter tyres infact i couldnt find one single fleet company that did use them. I have been in contact with 4 main dealers in the north west this week. Fiat, Renault, Ford and of course Lexus. The service department of non of these companies is trying to sell or sugest you should buy winter tyres at this tiime of year not even Lexus are suggesting winter tyres. I have contacted the 3 biggest tyre suppliers in the north west this week and i mean suppliers to the trade. Last year non of them even stocked winter tyres, this year, contrary to my belief they are doing so. Suprising to me they are selling about one in twenty. These tyres are being stocked and supplied to the trade as there has been a demand as people, and i quote " jump on the band wagon". One supplier even admitted they see no merit in them as the weather just isnt cold enough for long enough but if people want them they will sell them after all its about profit. So you can get them this year which actually suprised me. As mentioned before non of the major motoring organisations are recomending you buy them, the AA themselves dont use them on their vehicles neither does the rac or green flag. Non of the emergency services use them either. Rospa havnt even bothered to publish a report on them and they are the foremost experts on accident prevention. Insurance companies last year wanted a premium if you used them, if they insured you at all. I have if people require them pictures of the "new style" tyre information charts that are now legally required on all tyres. I have one interesting photo of a standard tyre that has a c rating for water dispersal, its a winter tyre, i have another picture of a standard tyre that also has a c rating. These winter tyres work better at temps less than 7 degrees firstly i cant find any one quoting better than what ? the bumph sales info just says better. These tyres by most manufacturers are recomended to be fitted from october to april, incase anyone hasnt noticed yet its the middle of november and the temp hasnt been below 7 yet, not in my area anyway, so some ones using tyres they dont need to yet. If you do the maths on the matter 4 tyres + 4 wheels 6 -7 hundred quid ?? Lets over estemate for a while and say 2 weeks deep snow everyone stuck. 2 weeks you cant make it to work winter tyres get you there great i loose 2 weeks pay you dont my fault i should have bought winter tyres. But when you get to work you cant do anything because all the logists companies who supply your companies dont use winter tyres so you cant do anything in work anyway. !!! This is my last post on this subject because no one seems to understand my point which is for the few days a year when you actually need a bit more traction that these winter tyres may actually give you doesnt cover the cost in my eyes which is why even though i could make money from selling them i dont recomened them as,although i do see the benifits i dont think the weather is bad enough for long enough to warrent the cost of them. Unfortunatly 8/9 people on here saying they are great because they have used them and didnt get stuck isnt goign to sway me in light of the fact no comercial organisation using the roads which adds up to millions of vehicles uses them 8/9 people rating them or millions not bothering and managing without them.