colinrobinson

Ive had several LS models over the years and admittedly got used to them, I then bought may son a 350h which we are highly impressed with ,so much so I went out and bought myself a 65 plate GS450H, I expected a loss in refinement but liked the car and its time I slowed down a bit. but im concerned about the engine noise at high revs sounds like a hole in the exhaust when accelerating not something im used to hearing in the LS. it went in for mot today and passed so no obvious exhaust problem. the loan car was a new rx450H which I presume is same engine but it does sound better at high revs. Does the GS450h Suffer from engine noise at High revs, sounds like im thrashing it but im not really. 0-60+ from lights it sounds like a boy racers engine mod, but I like the 34MPG

I don't believe the problem to be the LPG otherwise i wouldn't be prepared to convert my new one, the lpg was fitted at 60k failed at approx 100k and did 38 k with a rethreaded cylinder and replacement plugs if it was the LPG id have seen another similar failure (if you consider a replacement lpg injector routine of course) Im now inclined to believe it was an incorrectly fitted plug. (image attached) oh and all the lpg stuff bar the tank was under the bonnet, there was even flash lube fitted near the water bottle would not know what the vaporiser looks like I'm afraid

I was always curious what we buy any car did with end of life stuff, now I know for sure.

As far as tyres go, I stick with Michelins good and quiet in all weathers as tyres are your only contact with the road stick with the best you can afford. I'm not a slow driver and while dunlops are quiet I'm sure they add a good couple of feet to high speed braking which is enough to make a difference. especially as it the last foot that makes the difference. Im always concerned about bmw's behind me running on pirrellis (they appear to pass me on the inside with a worried look on their faces and abs doing its best! though i do admit you need both brains and tyres to brake effectively Regards

yep thats it, looks like they washed it and added £1400 to its Value! i got what i believed to be a fair offer of £600 for it. The engine warning light is on, that should warn anyone off it, an lpg conversion with an engine management light should raise serious eyebrows. and the photos are all at a distance with no internals although the inside isn't too bad a few leather scuffs etc. someones looking in excess of £1000 to address its maintenance

hi guys. Just to make you aware my ls430 above reached the end of the road last week due to a number of issues it went to WEBuyAny car cause I wouldn't inflict it on anyone given the amount that needs doing to it. After its issue where the it melted a spark plug and needed to be re-threaded the compression in that cylinder dropped to 120 when it should have been 200 ish, it ran a bit rough when idling (i.e. you could hear the engine and there was a ripple in your coffee). several other things are needed if it appears on ebay etc. New o2 sensor New Tyres A New LPG injector quoted about £70 plus fitting replacement parking sensors. and the final straw (heated driver seat elements went) Oh and its ready for a decent valet. So in all honesty best avoided. All is not lost Ive found another one LS430 54 plate gold/Beige 50k on the clock, in immaculate condition including the Alloys almost identical except I've noticed this one doesn't have rear seat massage. Im not put off by LPG so I'm going to have it converted, that petrol is expensive stuff when you've not bought it for while. Regards Colin

Leon cheers, thats my thoughts appreciate the frank opinion. they wouldnt guarantee any mileage either. time to look for a new one don't think its worth swapping the engine. maybe a trip to chesterfield soon then as im now sure this wasnt LPG Related, the other half of the engine seems fine and its done the same mileage ... I wont accept any nonsense about engine warning light and chalk it down to a learning experience. Regards

Leon/Bren thanks added the link to the images in original post Leon, whats your opinion re the compression results ?

Heres the Update, Thanks for the images my plug is in a worse condition but otherwise similar to the pictures you posted ill try and insert the image at the end of this post. Ive had the helicoil and compression tests done, dismayed at the compression test results in PSI they are as follows: windscreen end 190 psi 180 psi 145 psi 180 psi 155 psi 180 psi 155 psi 200 psi As you can see all the left Cylinders look to be poor, Lexus engineer states they are in spec However the spec shows the min expected pressure to be 143 psi, and its 145 in the affected cylinder ! The fitted plugs were NGK bkr6eix-lpg 4 of em look to be in similar decent condition but the others while in tact look different. The repair with replacement plugs and a single replacement coil was £850 the diagnosis was incorrectly fitted out of spec plugs, but having driven the car back from the dealers as soon as it switched to lpg the engine management light came on which i wasnt expecting, its going back tomorrow to get the fault code read. how do i post the image(s) ? (Pm me an email address and ill email them if interested.) http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/w27g.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/811/7k6s.jpg/ Regards Colin

The initial diagnosis from lexus dealer (4 days on) , non standard and possibly incorrectly fitted Spark Plugs unable to meet the requirements of the engine, the plug was NGK , lexus approve and would have fitted denso platinum plugs. he also suggested that lpg burns hotter than fuel possibly contributing to the failure. no visible deposits in cylinder so recommendation is to continue with helicoil and compression tests on all cylinders before continuing with further repair and plug replacement. ive requested all the removed plugs be retained, so ishould be able to confirm to you guys what was fitted. Regards Colin

Leon, exact opposite I was very pleased with your advice and dont want you to get the wrong idea. it may not have come over well i was referring to moving my brcs system to a new vehicle in the chesterfield branch which you explained you were not yet set up for.

Good news on the strut but at the moment i seem to be on the repair it track for mine, you get attached to these beasts

If its hellicoiled (re threaded) the new plug should be OK as long as no damage has been done to the valves or piston. & the cause of the overheating sorted. cause of the overheating sorted is a good point, do you agree that this could be the lean running, id certainly want to see the condition of the other plugs, its my regular lexus dealer and id accept a guarantee on the work. One of my pals had a 430 go bang - it was exhaust valve seat recession. The car had done 72K ish on LPG - no lights - it just started running a little rough - a compression test revealed the bad news. £5K from Lexus dealer or £2.5K from Toyoda for the head rebuild - they also recommended Flash lube :) Colin you may want to get your valves checked out before they carry out the repair - I assume they have already suggested this but........ Bren Ive got a quote from lexes dealership for the suggested helicoil and fix a reasonable sounding £700 quid, Given the advice i recieved here I asked the following questions: Where are the Bits that melted away, rolling about in the cylinder/Engine ? Diagnosis of Cause ? Condition of other plugs ? Results of a compression test ? and Guarantee on offer for the repair ? No answer rolled of their tounges but they are getting back to me, let you know ... Fantastic Colin - you asked them all the correct questions and got no answers. They need to bore-scope (put a camera down) each cylinder and check the condition of the valves etc - or take the head off (big bucks). But they need to find out what went wrong and if there is any damage - the bits went somewhere - even if they were vaporised then they are now in the exhaust - get an emission test done as part of the fix so you know your cats are OK. They probably are because any metal vapour will have condensed in the top end of the exhaust. Keep pushing (nicely) and asking until you get sensible answers - try the service manager and then the dealership principle - point out they checked the car out and said it was OK. Always be nice and shame them into giving you good service if you have to :) Bren my usual service manager is off sick at the moment, the toyota guy is doing his best holding the fort, he has full access to my history over more than 10 years. im in no rush ill post a photo of the damage if i ever get one. apparently the helicoil guy is prepared to remove the head in that quote as access to the cylinder in question is hampered by the installation of the LPG Ecu. Ive spoken to leon at profess about swapping out my lpg they are not interested in doing it chesterfield at the moment, but he's been following the thread and suggested some of the questions above (due credit goes in that direction). I also asked if the fitted plugs were lexus approved as longer term theres a question to answer there when the metal thread of a plug can melt away !

If its hellicoiled (re threaded) the new plug should be OK as long as no damage has been done to the valves or piston. & the cause of the overheating sorted. cause of the overheating sorted is a good point, do you agree that this could be the lean running, id certainly want to see the condition of the other plugs, its my regular lexus dealer and id accept a guarantee on the work. One of my pals had a 430 go bang - it was exhaust valve seat recession. The car had done 72K ish on LPG - no lights - it just started running a little rough - a compression test revealed the bad news. £5K from Lexus dealer or £2.5K from Toyoda for the head rebuild - they also recommended Flash lube :) Colin you may want to get your valves checked out before they carry out the repair - I assume they have already suggested this but........ Bren Ive got a quote from lexes dealership for the suggested helicoil and fix a reasonable sounding £700 quid, Given the advice i recieved here I asked the following questions: Where are the Bits that melted away, rolling about in the cylinder/Engine ? Diagnosis of Cause ? Condition of other plugs ? Results of a compression test ? and Guarantee on offer for the repair ? No answer rolled of their tounges but they are getting back to me, let you know ... Fantastic Colin - you asked them all the correct questions and got no answers. They need to bore-scope (put a camera down) each cylinder and check the condition of the valves etc - or take the head off (big bucks). But they need to find out what went wrong and if there is any damage - the bits went somewhere - even if they were vaporised then they are now in the exhaust - get an emission test done as part of the fix so you know your cats are OK. They probably are because any metal vapour will have condensed in the top end of the exhaust. Keep pushing (nicely) and asking until you get sensible answers - try the service manager and then the dealership principle - point out they checked the car out and said it was OK. Always be nice and shame them into giving you good service if you have to :) Bren my usual service manager is off sick at the moment, the toyota guy is doing his best holding the fort, he has full access to my history over more than 10 years. im in no rush ill post a photo of the damage if i ever get one. apparently the helicoil guy is prepared to remove the head in that quote as access to the cylinder in question is hampered by the installation of the LPG Ecu. Ive spoken to leon at profess about swapping out my lpg they are not interested in doing it chesterfield at the moment, but he's been following the thread and suggested some of the questions above (due credit goes in that direction).

If its hellicoiled (re threaded) the new plug should be OK as long as no damage has been done to the valves or piston. & the cause of the overheating sorted. cause of the overheating sorted is a good point, do you agree that this could be the lean running, id certainly want to see the condition of the other plugs, its my regular lexus dealer and id accept a guarantee on the work. One of my pals had a 430 go bang - it was exhaust valve seat recession. The car had done 72K ish on LPG - no lights - it just started running a little rough - a compression test revealed the bad news. £5K from Lexus dealer or £2.5K from Toyoda for the head rebuild - they also recommended Flash lube :) Colin you may want to get your valves checked out before they carry out the repair - I assume they have already suggested this but........ Bren Ive got a quote from lexes dealership for the suggested helicoil and fix a reasonable sounding £700 quid, Given the advice i recieved here I asked the following questions: Where are the Bits that melted away, rolling about in the cylinder/Engine ? Diagnosis of Cause ? Condition of other plugs ? Results of a compression test ? and Guarantee on offer for the repair ? No answer rolled of their tounges but they are getting back to me, let you know ...

If its hellicoiled (re threaded) the new plug should be OK as long as no damage has been done to the valves or piston. & the cause of the overheating sorted. cause of the overheating sorted is a good point, do you agree that this could be the lean running, id certainly want to see the condition of the other plugs, its my regular lexus dealer and id accept a guarantee on the work.

cheers im gonna stick with 430's as ive found if theres a prod i can get the existing lpg system moved over at a reasonable price

Hi Colin Running lean with the light on is not within accepted params in my humble opinion - I have done 206K+ in a 430 and have usually put the Lexus plugs in. I would expect if it is running lean it will run hot. The Lexus dealer in Coventry was always great even with the conversion - I usually use an indi now and occasionally go back to Lexus for a special treat. If the Lexus dealer say they can fix it then take their advice and guarantee - and don't pay if they don't fix it. Bren bren, that seems a reasonable assumption in the circumstances my technical knowledge extends to opening the bonnet and filling the washer bottle thats why I buy lexus ...

part of the research i did before purchasing was spending some time on here which helped me understand issues and importance of lpg cert and em light, but it wasnt on at purchase and lexus confirmed vehicle was fine when inspected. so i feel i did what i could. incidently after purchase i found the vehicles previous owner was a respected forum member here adding to the comfort factor. additionally the cert suggested the lpg system had been fitted at 60k miles 40k before i bought it, so its done 110k on lpg can't have been that much wrong with it. you can only do so much research. and profess gas cant be the only people in the country that fit lpg properly ? im in nottingham. id still go for another lpg hence my posting, thanks for the pm messages guys i may be in touch Regards

this is no different to buying any second hand vehicle, if your going to do it youve got to accept some risk. and you cant expect lexus dealers to fully support a modified engine. the irritating thing is the Fuel and mileage remaining calcs that stop you playing fuel light bingo. or are you suggesting these work correctly when you convert them properly, what do you suggest as the best system out there for Lexus vehicles?

em light wasnt on when purchased, someone had cleared the EM Code and it had an lpg cert, when it came back on i got the car serviced, light went out, got the car lpg serviced it came back on after 500 miles, took it back to different lpg service centre who confirmed brcs system was set up correctly for vehicle, Back to lexus dealer who said em diag suggested it was running a little lean but within tolerances for its age/mileage. did 50k with out issue now done a total of 140k which i agree is about 100k less than id expect from my other lexus 400's ive had over the years. LESSON: is prob to have the plugs and em checked on regular basis if your running LPG, incidently it had a lexus service 2 months ago but i elected to just do a "b" service. if you put the lexus approved titanium plugs in at service interval i guess i wouldnt have had the issue. disappointed but not devastated, it appears it may be corrected by re-threading or is this a bad idea

not sure what im going to do, accepting advice and comment from here at the mo, but id spend some money to keep it on the road

its with the dealer now, they have now idea but they are going to send the Coil and melted plug to toyota/lexus for further diagnosis. i called in today to see how they were getting on and they showed me the damage. the coil is at the top and it has a plastic type seal to the engine, that had split and that may be the initial cause. As you know the engine warning light is on following a lpg conversion, it goes off after car is serviced but back on after any decent journey, not concerend about that done ablout 50k with it converted so no prob there. at the weekend i noticed my phone vibrating on its mount, then noticed while stopped at lights there was a mis-fire going on. at home the engine had a louder than normal tick-over but i wasnt concerned decide to drive to work nottingham to sheffield daily commute and book in for a service i just did a b service last time as funds were tight it should have had an a at 140k that would prob have replaced the plugs ... the plug itself appears to be stuck in the coil mounting but one side of its thread right to the top has melted away, the engineers say there was a fault code from the diagnosis but didnt say what it was and it may just be the usual one from the lpg anyway. I cant confirm it had the Correct plugs fitted this would have been down to prev owner who is a forum member and was very proud of his car justifiably so (sorry but ive broke it)

I know your not permitted to advertise on here, but ive had a problem with my converted ls430 over the weekend and it looks as if it would be cheaper to buy another than repair. One of the spark plugs has melted in the engine block it has been removed by lexus dealer and they are looking at getting the mounting re threaded or a qoute to do it over the next few days. It has been mis-firing over the weekend and i was going to book it in for lpg and a service, but it seems it was more serious than i thought and it wanted a rest on the hard shoulder. doesnt look like trading it in is an option so id consider something about £5k not concerned about mileage ive had several over the years. mine was MM51TTY bought from a forum member over a year ago. any other comments welcome ... Regards

Doing a regular 25 mpg now, motorway cruising 20 mpg on the other roads but don't do much of that, any probs sorted by the LPG service