dutchie01

so i guess you will keep running your trusted 250 then.. nevertheless you must have been thinking about the theoretical possibillity that you could eventually unexpectedly have to part from your current set of wheels and what would then be your first choice, what would you go for what would you like to replace it with? guess for you 6 cyl min and rwd as a must so another 250 or possibly BMW, Jag, Merc. come to think of it choice seems rather limited?

oh dear, linas bad news indeed. looking for new wheels, what are you going for?

that might well be true Noby. The youngsters in my village think of the hyundai kona as a premium car as it has apple car play, parking360degrees cameras, super stereo, 3d satnav, and all other goodies as standard. How about that? i am middle aged and have different qualifications for luxury or premium i tend to look at old world brands first.

What is the cheapest new premium car on the market today? Debating the top end of the market is not so interesting as we all know the Cullinans and Bentaygas. The discussions so far seem to be about what qualifies or not and various models have passed by. But what about todays new cars? how much do you have pay to have an entry in the premium world? Could it be Mini? BMW sells them as premium against premium prices. You can easily add 25% of the value of the car in options as well, so... Or Fiat 500? also here the special editions do look special and are specially prices as well. And what about the cheapest base version of the new 5 series? order one without extras and in base trim/engine and it is not much more expensive than the most expensive mini.. Is it the Lexus IS300H? not too expensive in base trim and it does have a certain premium feel about it? Audi A5 in base trim with smallest engine? or do we need a six for premium feel so the BMW 140? any suggestions?

volvo created polestar as a separate brand they will release several stand alone models 3 already announced creatively called 1,2,3. according to the md of polestar this was done to protect the strong volvo image which will be brought one step further on the premium ladder to compete head on with mainly audi but always staying close to the brands uspś . Polestar enables volvo to experiment with drivetrains/styling/architecture and obove all ownership as the cars can only be attained over the internet with a subscription so NO dealers.

I dont think a stinger can be a premium vehicle as it is a Kia.. Producing wheels for the masses will never create a premium brand. The Stinger in itself can hit all the right boxes but as long as it is a Kia it will never be regarded as premium. Toyota created Lexus as premium brand. Just as nissan did with infinity and hyundai with genesis. Volvo is now also having a go with polestar. If the brand lacks heritage, history and image thats the only way of doing it? Oh how complicated have things become, i can remember the days when a BMW dealer only had 3-5-7 series in the showroom, when small cars were small because they had to be cheap thus were lacking any kind of luxury. The amount of models in most brands are now almost impossible to remember!

I do think that almost 99% of people entering a mercedes showroom will think the new A class is a premium vehicle. If the showroom with all expensive cars does not give it away the electronic dash will blow their minds. The A is part of the entire mercedes family so the brand image is also valid for the smallest member. BTW i think the new A is a decent car i did not like the previous one much but the new one seems a better car, on topic again, i remembered a saying from the previous end boss at VW about developing the VW Phaeton. this is to show how important it is for a car manufacturer to be seen as premium as only 1 halo car will effect the entire range. He ( Piech) commented on the incredibly expensive developmentcosts of the pheaton by saying = if i can charge 10 Euro more for a golf as we have a phaeton in thesame showroom we have succeeded.

so vlady, here is the million dollar question. would you prefer a genesis above a comparable sized lexus? Or do you rate them as similar or inferior?

exactly what i meant. Every new model coming out is a big jump forward and it is no longer the small cars only. Just look at www.genesis.com and you will see a new Lexus in the making..

Maybe Premium has a different meaning to different people. Some recognize quality products and will always look for it. Top class Havanaś, handmade leather suitcases, bespoke suits, handcrafted watches, shoes, etc etc. Only the best is good enough and i think this will be valid for all wallets, its a way of thinking. Some will buy a premium brand as they do not want to be associated with a loser brand ( i will NEVER buy a mondeo!!). Just stick a BMW logo on a mediocre FWD minivan with bland styling and it will sell like crazy. ( and nobody wants a mondeo..). And some just follow marketing slogans telling them the new Kia is a premium experience. All is relative, we on this forum know a thing or 2 about cars and are interested in them, thats why we are here boring each other with our opinions. I am fully convinced that the vast majority of car buyers is like my entire family, they have no clue whatsoever. Some dont know the difference between diesel or petrol and nobody knows anything about FWD or RWD, let alone disc or drum and so an and so on. What they DO know is that BMW is premium and Skoda not. They know this without any background knowledge at all. SO here we are. perception perception. Years of marketing, years of bringing thesame message across do create a brand. BMW-Sporty. Volvo-safe. Merc-luxury. Rolex - Louis Vuitton - Brioni - please can i hand you my money. Car manufacturers of course try to exploit this by trying to achieve the highest price possible, just look at the new Jaguar E-pace which seems ridiculously overpriced.

If reliability is not quality than all my alfas that broke down must have been top quality

Yes Lexus is still there but time does not stand still. Weak points in todayś Lexus are limited engine choice, outdated electronics ( no digital cockpits) and just a very limited range with only a couple of models. Exclusivity is there as people just dont buy the cars in droves.. I drove a new NX for a 24 hr testdrive and it is just not up there with the best of the competition, it feels old. Same for my IS300H, i like it but the competition is lighter and with a wide choice of engines more powerful and then the interior.. very well put together but no match for the best of the competition. I just dont see big improvements in engineering or even design, it just seems to float along without direction and i am afraid Lexus is loosing momentum is standing still whilst others go full speed ahead. Seen the development of the koreans? where will they be in 5 years time? Where is Skoda going? in some markets they are now seen as more premium as VW! Seen the developments at Volvo? Every new car is a hit and btw i do think Volvo could be a real threath to Lexus in Europa as they could appeal to thesame clientele..

Interesting topic. For the manufacturer reaching the Premium status is like winning a gold medal as you can charge higher prices, achieve higher margins. For the customer buying a premium product - not neccesarily cars - radiates success as you can show all that you can afford it. So, it seems to be about perception and brandimage that can even differ per country or per city.. In the automobile world there are a limited number of producers that truly belong to the premium club as they have proved to be on the forefront of engineering for decades continuously using the best materials and engineering higher quality products than mainstream producers. We all know them, the Germans, Jag, LR/RR, Rolls, Bentley and Lexus( in spite of the incredibly outdated electronics). But then? any italians? french? hmm not really, Americans? not even the vette in my idea.. And is Audi more premium than Porsche or the other way around? and how long did it Audi take to be accepted as a premium brand? 25 years? So it could be about history/roots. ( but Alfa has them aplenty but are they premium?). Could be about product quality ( big yes), about desiging the best and not the cheapest solution, about using higher quality materials then really needed, about top chassis development, about architecture. Does exclusivity play a role? BMW is a mass producer but seen as premium. confusing to say the least. Off topic or maybe not but our vacuumcleaner broke down yesterday ( 20yrs old ) and i am just back from the shops where i found out there are PREMIUM vacuumcleaners!

There is hardly a market for used GS es other than afficionados i dont expect anyone buying them. especially the 450 represents great value now, a very underrated car in my opinion. in the states pricing for the ES has just been announced and it is below the GS and just above the IS. It seems the IS will be more at risk here as the GS is already gone. As the GS is no longer on offer i expect pricing to fall further, especially the 450.

i had a Honda Jazz Hybrid as a loaner for 2 wks 3 yrs ago and thought it was a fantastic car! practicle and due to the hybrid system very fast off the line as the car weighs next to nothing. but bragging about it? Maybe German Humour??