dutchie01

Times are indeed changing.. There will be massive changes in the motorindustry in the next 3 years all caused by WLTP and EU regulations. By 2021 the average output of all cars sold by a manufacturer may not exceed 95 grams. This is laid down in EU laws and will be monitored. When over the company will be fined. These fines are serious stuff and it is whispered that the VAG group could face 1.5 billion as it is not expected they will make the average of 95. Sounds easy want 95 or below? just build small cars and presto! But no, these minis cannot be engineered below the threshold, so the more you sell the faster you will reach the dreaded fines.. Basically the only way to get below 95 is electrification and especially plug ins or EV,s. So that will happen. Expect the C1ś, Aygoś, Pandas, Ups etc to disappear from the market, Expect the big engines to disappear as well unless it is a niche model with that sells in extremely slow numbers. Expect EV to hit the market in vast numbers, these will be pushed into the market if needed below cost, all to sink below the 95 average threshold. Times, they are changing...

get yourself a good healthy Saab and surf to www.hirsch-performance.ch this was the official house tuner of the Saab company and when using them the works warranty remained intact! Rock solid reliable, from light tuning to just mad with whistling wastegate when lifting off. Great fun ( shame the chassis could not always cope with the power haha)

The GS was axed because sales in the saloon market are melting away so apparently Toyota decided they could no longer be profitable with 2 saloons ( GS and ES) in a globally shrinking market. They upped the ES and made that the replacement of both GS ( which is more expensive to produce than the ES).and ES. A pure and in my idea logic business decision. I am not trying to justify anything but without the US market there would not be any salooncar between the IS and LS at all. Lexus UK expects to sell around 1000 ES cars in 2019 and if they reach that goal i guess it will be seen as a success. Growth will have to come from the new UX that expects to sell 6000 units pa and is likely to draw new customers to the brand. If the UX is a success the ES will be good for 5% of total Lexus UK sales.

I do think the ES300H is designed to be a relaxed cruiser, to waft through traffic with excellent fuel consumption and in silence. It will find some happy owners for sure. Some of them interested in cars and maybe on this forum but i think most will be non car guys going for the individual taste, the beeing different. This model has nothing to do with competing with a 5 series or even a 3 series. ES300H forecast for 2019 is 1000 cars only. BM sells that in ONE day. You want to drive something exclusive, away from the crowd and want to do this in luxury with full safetykit and great consumption this could be the car for you. Want to drive a car to the limits look somewhere else, it is as simple as that.

Really? Why isnt it good to drive?

I currently drive a new Volvo V60 T5 with 250hp and 350Nm. It is FWD but no torque steer, nu pulling to the left or right under full throttle, no skating , just nothing... I am telling this as technology has moved on over the years. if one hasnt driven a FWD car for a long time it could well be possible to adjust ones opinion. Before the Volvo i had an IS300H for 3 years and that car felt a step up to the IS250 i drove for 4 years. It was more refined, had faster acceleration and enough pull, a better chassis and was roomier with better consumption. So, i found the predecessor to the 250 a big improvement. I really would like to have a go in the ES to see if that generation is another step up. Judging by some reviews it could well be. Until i have driven one i leave the conclusions to people that know best!

in the end of the day your logic is nonsense. You seem to live in a bubble completely not in touch with reality. The saloon segment is dying regardless of what engine you put in. Guess howm many XJs Jaguar sold in 1998? - 14500. And last year just one thousand. And this is a car available with various engines. From an economical standpoint i can see Jaguar doing a Lexus, Replace the XJ and XF by 1 car only.

Well Bob, that is not an easy position you seem to be in. If it was your neighbours no problem but your parents in law makes this an interesting case. Beeing non German in a German family will maybe play a role. It are the unwritten rules of a certain class that dictate the choice of clothes, houses, choice of restaurants and.. cars. Small cars like a Mini are ok if your are under 30, a decent 3 series or C class until 40 and then a Merc E or 5 series is propably needed, but.. in the right color, grey or dark blue. Going against these unwritten rules will place you outside the bubble and set you apart. What your father in law told you are really what he is afraid of the other people he knows will think ( they wont say it loud i guess). I am convinced he will accept the LS if it was your second car, a hobby vehicle. Maybe you can convince him by comparing the LS to the S class Merc. Show some clips telling the history and engineering behind it. Tell him the Lexus beats the Merc and drives circles around a 5 series. Ask him out to join you on a testdrive.If he is Ok with your choice it will make your life much easier. (and if he keeps resisting just buy it anyway!)

I dont often visit big cities but today i did. Walked on the pavement in a very busy road and oh dear, the smell of exhaust fumes was just terrible. It blocked my nose hurt my throath and i just wanted to get away from it. This is a street where people live, children grow up. i cant wait until the moment all inner cities will be electric only this just cannot be accepted anymore. want a big engine, fine store it somewhere and drive it in the weekend like people now gave horses as a hobby. For daily commute it is time to move on

If you can get a decent one for a couple of hundred quid why not start a collection, buy and never sell......

all passenger cars combined and 2.4% pollution, that doesnt sound right to me... i did not do any factchecking but i thought all cars did some 20% of carbondioxide and some 50 or 70% of nox?

Diesel is dead. Only company using them in future will be Caterpillar.

i had to replace my IS300H after 3 years and took an NX for a drive. Interior very familiar of course but it left me a bit disappointed. I found the engine had to work too hard to get the car up too speed, not enough power and torque it felt slower than the IS. Also the satnav was no improvement and i just didn know what but it did not steal my heart. Following week took a Volvo XC40 T5 petrol 250hp for a drive which was roughly thesame price and i was blown away instantly. The NX felt a generation old and in my opinion the Volvo is better on alll fronts except fuel consumption. Better handling, ride, chassis, comfort and above all torque and infotainment. The comparison was not really fair. I took the Volvo.

Oh, the irony. The car that seemed pretty much ignored by everybody with under 300 cars sold in the UK last year is stirring up lots of emotions and splitting opinions. 35 pages and counting, average 25 messages per page so almost 900 expressions of members like me that feel they have to contribute in one way or the other. It all seems to boil down to the end of an era. from V6 to Hybrid 4. From RWD to FWD, From a designated 5 series beater designed by engineers, that propably was never understood, to an upmarket version of the Avalon designed by the marketing department. The writing is on the wall, The Death Of The Sedan. This segment is shrinking rapidly so large investments will flow into other models ( SUV/Crossovers) that sell like hot cakes regardless of price. LF1 - RXL - RX - NX - UX and the US dealers now asking for a halo SUV model above the LF1 to compete with the prime example of bad taste the escalade. How will the Lexus portfolio look in 5 years time? Better get your hands on a second hand GS 6 or 8 pot before they are gone!