aidanjaye

1 hour ago, Flytvr said:

Yep, disgusting. It shouldn't be necessary, but...... GAP

You will be lucky to find GAP for second hand vehicles of this age......also agreed value wont work as its not deemed "a classic".

57 minutes ago, doog442 said:

£16.5K appears to represent a part ex / trade in price for your car..am i wrong ?

A few similar cars at dealers for £18.5K plus ..age and mileage./..even a 2011 at a dealer for £18.5k ..doesn't help your case.

I always thought a total loss would be a trade in value as they have no idea of the state of your car when it went 'walkies'....

Agree if car was a dog (when it went walkies...) with above normal mileage....£16400 seems right, or I was PXing it. policy wording stated "cost of replacing YOUR car with one of a similar condition, age, mileage". Less than a week before car was nicked it was serviced by Lexus and had a three page health check stating car was A1 in everyway. This was forwarded to insurer but mattered not a jot. 12 cars at moment for sale second hand (which is average). The 11 plate you mentioned must have some underlying issue - otherwise at that price it would have been snapped up. FWIW - a cat C was listed at over 16k a few weeks back.

To be truthful I expected a figure in the high 18s for my car as a settlement. I was offered £14200 firstly , then upped to £16400 was roughly 2.5k less than cost of a replacement "of a similar age mileage and condition". Car was stolen nearly 4 months ago, which probably accounts for a few hundred quid in depreciation (or about 2 grand if you use Admirals math).

It gets better - the FOS have just sent me a survey to complete regarding how they handled my complaint.

Well I did a little digging and have to agree with post above......FOS is a business funded by businesses. This I imagine is much the same as Classification societies who govern vessels at sea. Who pays these classification societies?? Ship owners. Disgruntled or disagree with what Class say - change the Class society you use. But I digress.....

Seems insurers have conferences.....one of which "might" be called  LOVE CLAIMS....lol. These conferences are ticketed entry. Now I'm sure the guest speakers are paid from ticketing costs?? I wonder if FOS members are ever guest speakers?

Maybe I watch to much TV and my imagination runs overtime. I'm still not sure of moon landing......JFK......aliens and all that.

16 minutes ago, lotusdave said:

oh my god that's appalling. I'm insured with them too.

is that the final fos letter? If so it should be on the fox website duly redacted.

bastards.

Yep final letter from senior ombudsman. As I wont be taking it any further, have no reason not to share responses with you guys and just hope it highlights what you'll be up against if something untoward should happen.

THEM - The ombudsman’s has now reviewed your response to his decision and he’s asked me to pass on his comments, highlighted in red below:

US - “Our policy from Admiral stated that insurance was in place to cover  "cost of replacing YOUR car with one of a similar condition, age, mileage". This is simply not possible with Admirals settlement, and can easily been seen from looking through classified - something that the Ombudsman S*** H****** has said he hasn't even done (final section of his reply). This checking of classified would have taken a very short time as currently only 13 vehicles for sale.

THEM - I have commented on the information Mr and Mrs S sent in the last paragraph of the background – so I’ve taken into account what they say they believe is a fair value  

US - He has stated that this is the final decision, but we want either to pass the issue to another Ombudsman who will take time and study classified, else give me contact details of department and we will do so directly.

 THEM - The final decision is our last word on the complaint. Another ombudsman, not even the chief ombudsman can take a look at the merits of the case. As Mr and Mrs S haven’t accepted my decision it doesn’t become legally binding. So they may be able to take their case further outside of our service but they may want to seek advice on what they might be able to do (Solicitor or CAB for example).”

As promised - update on final outcome. To say I'm disappointed is an understatement.

Ombudsman has final ruled that what insurer paid out is market value. They have said if I want to take it further, contact a lawyer.

So white ISF with FLSH, 67000 mile, 58 plated, is worth £16400 max!!! If you follow that depreciation, then in three years you should be able to pick up an ISF for 3K.

With that in mind, please think wisely before insuring your pride and joy via Admiral. I for one will never use their services again.  My wife wants to put all this behind her, so therefore don't mind naming insurer now, as wont be going down the lawyer route.

And to be fair, will probably never even consider contacting Ombudsman services in future. Waste of time. Independent??? not from where I am sitting. Maybe I am cynical?? In fact, yes I am.

If car is recovered no doubt insurers will punt it on. Just be aware if you come across a cheapish white ISF 58 plate that it may have been mine and should be recorded as stolen recovered - and on Admiral figures, should be worth a lot less than £16400, which is what an A1 vehicle is worth. It has a few things that only I would recognise on car so I know it would be mine - if in doubt get in touch. I will let you have plate number by PM.

Lastly - sincerely hope none of you guys / girls on forum have the same happen to you. At the end of the day its only a car - but the thought of being fleeced once by car thiefs, and then again by insurer, is annoying. Anyway, going to put whole situation to rest.

Cheers for all the comments over the five pages

2 hours ago, lotusdave said:

each complaint costs the insurer a set fee something like 500quid. So its funded by firms that have complaints made against them. I run a Pensions advisory business so if we have a case against us, no matter how spurious, we have to pay (but get a couple of free cases each year so in reality they don't cost us either, as we get very very few complaints)

you get a result, an appeal then the actual ombudsman makes a binding decision. So three attempts to get your case over.

Is that three attempts after you have contacted FOS.?

5 hours ago, lotusdave said:

14.2 is day light robbery. Hopefully somewhere around 19 which id be happy with if it were mine. Indeed I doubt mine is worth that but yours sounds better than mine. I've got kerbed wheels (my fault), stone chips (normal!) and the most annoying bit the leather in the drivers seat side bolster isn't great. Sounds fab though and hopefully some sod won't steal mine.

Yep, mine had no chips, 4 new tyres, new brake pads, just serviced, interior has zero wear in bolster....so agree, happy with 19k.

Just have to wait and see I suppose. Hopefully here something back on Monday / Tuesday - if not I will be pestering further.

Womble72 - Ombudsman , I believe, is paid out of a fund that all financial service companies have to contribute towards, based on earnings.

lotusdave - Dealer it had its last service at had been taking care of car for a while (knew previous owner and car well), and I already forwarded 3 pages condition report from dealer to insurance company. This bumped their offer from 14200 (yes...14200!!!!) to 16.4k.  Not trying to be greedy with settlement figure - reckon my car was worth 19500 in a dealer and around 18900 private. FLSH - A1 condition.

On ‎21‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 6:39 AM, lotusdave said:

just read my admiral policy. Definition is "cost of replacing YOUR (their bold) car with one of a similar condition, age, mileage".

fos will rule in your favour in my opinion, assuming your wording is similar.

My definition of value in my policy wording is exact same as yours by Admiral Lotusdave......

Lotusdave - did exactly as you suggested. Sent them a list of all ISFs for sale.....not hard to do when the list is only 13 long, and easily reduced to show cars of similar year and mileage:

Heres jist of what I sent:

"""have reviewed vehicles for sale in the whole UK, which did not take long as there is only 13 cars at present, out of which 7 are 08 or 58 plated cars.

4 hours ago, lotusdave said:

Probably teaching your grandmother to suck eggs (which is the oddest phrase ever!), but have you made it crystal clear to FoS that this is a very rare car and that your insurer are treating like a normal one?

Who are you with, we can look up the wording online no doubt and check what it says,

You shouldnt have to buy extra insurance (gap) to cover what is supposed to be insured.   Okay, they always haggle over a few quid but not a few thousand or 10%s of the car's value.

 

NAME AND SHAME if it fails as I dont want to be insured with the same people.

 

Earlier someone mentioned an exige; my elise is covered by a specialist insurer on an lotus scheme with track time included, so you know they know it's a hard car to value and that after 8 years its lost 30% not 75%.

People do need to be careful with cheap insurance, or anything in life that's cheap.  It's cheap for a reason.  A friend found they had a £1,000 excess on water escape in the home whch is one of the most common causes of a claim, meaning it more or less wasnt insured.  If they'd known, they would happily have paid more for a "proper" policy.  Not saying OP has cheap insurance, but just be careful.

 

 

 

It wasn't a "cut price" insurer - Its one of the majors. Not naming and shaming yet but their name has already been mentioned in posting...wink wink. I have listed every ISF for sale since my car was nicked, highlighting the pros / cons of each one compared to my vehicle. Also expressed the very limited numbers of these cars around.

Insurers are a business and need to make money, which is fair enough. But they should also take the rough with the smooth. The only make 1% profit. Ask your self what 1% is on the uk insurance market ?? a lot of money. All I will say is the insurer in question had a 6% rise in profits (that's not 6% profit - that's a 6% rise in profits) to nearly 360 million quid in 2015.

Google - thisismoney.co.uk, annual insurer profits and rewards for 2015. I wont copy the full link in but its easy to find. Makes interesting reading.

Someone in the "know" might enlighten me - but I believe that some insurance assessors are on commission (or they used to be). If a claim is 20k, and they pay out 16k - then they get a % (albeit small) of the savings made.

I'm lucky to be in a position to have already replaced the vehicle, but that also means I will drag this out for as long as required. Apart from the cash - its the principle.

11 hours ago, lotusdave said:

just read my admiral policy. Definition is "cost of replacing YOUR (their bold) car with one of a similar condition, age, mileage".

fos will rule in your favour in my opinion, assuming your wording is similar.

First run in with FOS was not great - they agreed with insurer. So I asked to take it further....in no rush and happy to take it as far as needs, just don't like the idea of being "shafted" twice - once with the thieving buggers, and once with insurer.

Which company(s) are people using for GAP?

I didn't actually get the XKR till a few months back - so still within the 3 month for GAP criteria.

Gap insurance is meant for newer vehicles to top up for high depreciation, and make sure outstanding finance is covered should something happen.

Cars older than 7 years don't normally qualify - or if a car has been purchased privately / or more than 3 months prior trying to get Gap. All policies are different - but this is the rough generalisation.

Lotusdave - "cost of replacing YOUR (their bold) car with one of a similar condition, age, mileage". I will certainly forward that one to my insurer. Will go and dig out my policy as its the same insurer.

Hi Rusty Crobar - if what you said is true, then it is yet again the insurance companies swindling joe public. The only people to profit are the traders and insurers....and the scum who steal cars. Surely the reason for insurance is to replace the vehicle for a similar vehicle - not a below condition, auction or cat c heap of sh*t.  We pay full premiums - we don't ask to insure 75% off a vehicle...

A sad day - just hope no other forum members have same problem. If what you said is true for ISFs, then I would be bailing soon when retail figures are firm, rather than if the worst happens, you loose 4-5 grand.

Maybe the insurance companies should just advertise that they will give you trade value for your vehicle if something happens! Then you end up with the vicious circle and attitude of a few who just end up saying "why bother". I cant ever remember being asked by a insurance broker did I want to insurer to an agreed value, something I feel they should be pushing if they intend to short change the customer.

Some on here have mentioned agreed values - but not many insurers offer this unless its a classic or unusual car. Wonder why? Gap insurance - fine if you get it when you purchase a vehicle but trying getting it for an older vehicle or one you have had more than 3 months.....but that's a whole other subject I suppose.

Anyway - lets see what happens, and I will be sure to let you all know. Needless to say I have changed insurers.

Quote

3 hours ago, lotusdave said:

sorry, have a missed what the ombudsmen said about the value?

 

They are saying insurance company is fine with valuations - to which I said NO. So being reviewed.

All well and good using glasses guide and such for say a IS200, when plenty have sold so easy to get average. But with only a handful of ISFs for sale, surely easier to just go by retails figures?

Industry figures do not really account for rare vehicles - hence why and average is taken across the model range. So if a IS200 is worth 30% of retail after 5 years - this figure is utilised for ISFs, even though figure is more like 45%.

Ask an insurer for book price of following - decent Peugeot 205 GTI, Honda S2000, Lotus Exige.....I bet its well below what you can actually buy one for. Unfortunately with decent ISFs being few and far between - think they may fall into same bracket.

Hey Giblet,

Been a while since I have been on forum as of working abroad.

Getting on really well with XKR. A lot more comfortable than ISF, and surprisingly gearbox on jag is better than ISFs. Performance wise - not much in it really. Suppose all depends if you can live with 2+2 or need four seats. Mines is the 4.2 supercharged version, which while grunty, is a good bit down on power compared to the 5.0ltr XKRs. The XKR I got had the 400mm Alcon brakes, which was a must for me. Don't know if they are any better than standard XKR brakes but they look lovely and are a must for the 20" wheels.

Still messing with insurance company on payout. Seems our ISFs are worth about 75-80% of what they retail second hand for??? Just hope forum members never have to get in same position as me. Try buying a A1 condition for 16K???

Assuming you want the car back after some scrot has ragged the tits off it , kirbing both alloys at approx 40 mph, no doubt throwing suspension out of aline, and then plowing it through a field .....

......not to mention that my wife wouldnt even sit in the car if it was returned.

She even considered moving to a different area....thats how ****** off she was. Unfortunately car crime has no boundries, apart from the fact that it tends to be nicer areas with nice cars that get hit

11 hours ago, lotusdave said:

very nice. Not really a direct replacement style or space wise, but the engine is glorious so enjoy it. 

All the cars I have had are just toys really. The lexus replaced a Cayman, completely differing cars.

The XKR is defo more GT than sports car - but still fun.

On 26/08/2016 at 4:28 PM, gumball3000 said:

I looked to 2 XFR's before i got the ISF . I like the look of them a lot. But the rarity of the ISF and the fact that mine's white sold it for me.

both my ISFs were white....only colour for them I think.

On 26/08/2016 at 7:48 AM, GibletPH said:

Congrats. I'm guessing it has the 6 speed box being an 09. We need some pics!

yep 6 speed box.

Well collected a 2009 XKR yesterday. specced to hilt with 20s and alcons.

First impressions..although a total different car to ISF, performance is on par. XKR gearbox is surprisingly better than the ISFs. Seats are much bette in the ISF though.

On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Womble72 said:

Sorry for your loss, I'd be telling them to replace the car, don't want the money if they can buy a good like for like example for £14k I'd happily accept it, obviously not possible, as for jag XKR, my sister has a 53 plate 4.2 supercharged from new, 50k ish millage and starting to suffer with various issues, been advised to cut her losses as this is the norm for these, my uncle has an early 03 with 16k, loves it and no issues, his is the 4.0ltr one, don't know much about them, both are lovely looking cars tho......good luck with your hunting......id still be asking insurance company to replace the car.

Its the newer xkr id be looking at (x150)....from 2007 onwards. better built and less gremlins.....hopefully.

On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 9:17 PM, lotusdave said:

that's the game, they offer low and you have to prove otherwise. These are hard cars to value because they are pretty rare. Mine is same age and slightly higher mileage and I wouldn't sell it for what they are offering!

so sorry to hear they nicked it. How come it was spotted and lost again? Is that when they give it 24 hours to see if it's tracked and then if it's not been recovered, it's moved on?

we leave our car keys easily found in the kitchen. If they are in the kitchen they can have them... Don't want to see them. Good luck getting the lotus out though as you need to be a slippery eel to get in the door the way its parked in the garage!

 

oh, try an evora s. Better than your think....

 

 

Yes...scum left it parked up for 12 hours. Car was reported to police but by the time they had got around to going to reported sighting....it was gone (11 hrs later).