HenryHippo

4 hours ago, GSLV6 said:

No, they cannot refuse as:

1) legally, the burden of proof lies with them and not you and ;

2) Under the Consumer Rights Act you are entitled to a full refund within 30 days if you are not satisfied with the vehicle irrespective of a fault being proved or not.

To exercise that, all you need do is write to them and state that you are not satisfied with the car and under the Act, are returning it for a full refund minus they're reasonable loss due to any mileage being put on the vehicle.  This can be calculated as the likely devaluation plus their reasonable administration costs, with the emphasis on "Reasonable".

This may cost a few hundred pounds at most.  Any more than that, and small claims court beckons...

If they then refuse the refund, you can take them to court (or threaten to) and you will win the case and they will be lumbered with all the legal costs.  They know this, so there's positive motivation not to mess you about and simply refund you.

Thanks very much for that. I didn't actually realise the 2nd point. So just to clarify, anyone can buy a second hand car, say they don't like it (or lie about a fault that is intermittent) and return it within 30 days to get their money back (minus a few hundred for wear and tear)?

I actually went today told them about the boot problem, it wasn't playing up so they just said it was fine and there is nothing they can do. I have left it with them though as they need to get the Hybrid system looked at, so balls in their court now. I also got them to a sign a document saying on this date (within 30 days of buying the car), I alerted them to the above problems, so I have some proof if this ever goes to court.

22 hours ago, Shahpor said:

Could you email them?  It is better to do it in writing so you have some proof.  Although, if you email them, make sure you get them to reply to confirm receipt.

How often does the fault occur?  Next time it happens, get a video to show them.

Did you put more than £100 on the credit card then?  It would make things easier.

Also, according to what I have read, they can charge you a fair use fee for the time you have used it.

I haven't opened the boot in 2 weeks so I can't answer the question about how often it occurs. I don't dare open the boot in case it fails to close again, rendering the car undriveable as I can't leave it in a public place with the boot open in case it is vandalised or similar.

I sent them a letter by recorded delivery. No, I didn't realise at the time that it had to be £100 (lesson learned), so it was less than that. I wonder what constitutes a fair use, I'm sure they will push for something unfair

18 hours ago, hprice1099 said:

For quickness I would personally take the are to Lexus, tell them of all your concerns and get a report off them of what they have found. This you can take to the dealer as proof of the issues, if they fob you off inform them you’re going to instruct Lexus to make the repairs and take them to small claims court to retrieve the money. :)

 

 

 

That's a good idea. Won't Lexus charge for this though? I asked for an inspection post sale from my local Lexus and they said all they could do was a free (superficial sounding) inspection or a more thorough one as part of a £599 service :(

Thanks a lot chaps for helping me navigate these murky waters.

I need to send a letter by recorded Delivery to their address, not simply a phone call/ drive there and demand a refund on the spot?

One foreseeable problem is that my issue is intermittent (boot lid not closing) and if the boot shuts fine when I am at the dealer then can they just refuse on the grounds that there is no fault? (Also a warning light came on recently but that problem isn't grounds for returning it?)

I remember reading somewhere that dealers can't charge for wear and tear so surely there is no fair use charge? 

I paid mostly on debit card but also a token amount on credit

Cheers. Its such a lovely car but so far its had a few teething issues so I can't justify keeping it

Looking at my rights am I correct in saying that one can return a second  hand car within the 30 days if it develops a fault and the dealer fails to fix it? Or you can return regardless?

3 hours ago, GSLV6 said:

I had the same issue with mine.  No parts may be needed, as if it's the latch not closing the boot properly and intermittent, then it's possible that it's an issue with the ECU controls for the boot.  There's a connection to a relay or switch which should be triggered when the boot is most of the way closed, to operate the electric servo in the boot lid which then draws the latch in and locks the boot.  On mine, the switch/relay wasn't having the signal sent to it so the boot wouldn't close.  They simply re-flashed the ECU or something and it cured the problem.  Took them all of 10 or 15 minutes when they realised what the fault was.  Could be worth them looking at this.  I wouldn't accept the need for parts to be changed unless they can show proof of the fault is related to a faulty part.  There seems a trend for many garages just to replace parts as a way of easy (for them) fault diagnosis at the customer's expense these days and I wouldn't have that on any of my vehicles. 

Fair enough. Problem is that mine has the boot a bit out of line (see photos on prev page), so the car's history is a little uncertain

"Check System" and an explanation mark in orange came on whilst on the motorway too. Another reason to return it

On 1/29/2017 at 5:12 PM, Shahpor said:

This is getting a little confusing.

Are we talking about the boot lock not working properly, or what looks like damage on the passenger side?

 

Sorry, I miss this. There's a little damage/ misalignment on the passenger side, but to me it sounds like the latch isn't going in properly.

Been back and forth on the phone with the dealer and their useless approved garage. Another week and I will be outside of the 30 day period, so I think it wise to return this (nice enough car that it is)

I believe my rights are that I can return a car within 30 days if faulty and I have given the dealer at least once chance to fix it (which I have)

In other news, 27.0 MPG (calculated by myself) on my first tank

Pleased with that considering I've had a heavy right foot in my first 2 weeks

4 minutes ago, Shahpor said:

Well that is no good.

What parts is he getting from Lexus?

 

Not a great start to my Lexus ownership, dealing with clueless garages!

I don't think he is actually getting any parts (despite him saying he would), more along the lines of I surprised him with what I said, and he's going to have to have a think/ do some research about next steps

At least he was honest about not doing anything. I was expecting to come back and be told they did something but actually didn't

Took my Lexus to a garage in this dealer's network of "approved garages"

Unfortuntaly as I was driving there, the boot actually closed itself, meaning that when I arrived, there was no evidence of the problem.

I explained that the problem was intermittent rather than consistent, and was actually not evident at that point in time.

Was asked to collect it today, asked the guy (different to who i spoke to before) what they did and they said "nothing because it was working"

Frustrating. Explained the problem to this guy. He said it might be something wrong with the computer and he will need to order some parts from Lexus on Monday and will let me know when I can bring it back.

Annoying that it is an intermittent problem. If it doesn't get fixed within the 30 days since purchase then I will be forced to return it, rather than risk it becoming a consistent problem outside of 30 days that I have to repair at my own cost.

35 minutes ago, hprice1099 said:

Thats not good, has this company got a Facebook/twitter etc accounts? If so you could use that and put up the pictures with a brief description of the faults, might boot them into action :)

They do. My threat to return it did manage to provoke a response today, going to drop it with them after work to fix

If this doesn't happen then yes I would continue along your course of action 

Been 2 days now since the dealer made a verbal promise to get it sorted at a garage local to me

No further contact since and my calls with the receptionist haven’t been returned

Dropped them an email last night to say if they don’t contact me today then I will be returning the vehicle as I am quite within my rights to do so within the first 30 days

Much prefer they fix it, but if not I will take it back on Sat

3 hours ago, hprice1099 said:

I get ya, with that milage and age of car I personally wouldn't bother with the full Lexus service. You can get a major essential care service for around £300. 

It hasn't been serviced in 2 years (but only 5k miles though), so I feel I should get a big service done, and then moving forwards, the essential ones

Or do you think it's a waste of money?

9 minutes ago, hprice1099 said:

Whats the milage on your car? I'm assuming he's recommending that for a reason, are they discounting it for you? Yes certainly, with a service plan you should be able to use any Lexus centre. 

135k on mine

No, just to clarify the 100k mileage was recommended for me by my local dealer (£599). I will ask the Kent dealer how much he would sell the 100k service for and if he negotiates, then I will buy and get it done at my local.

10 minutes ago, hprice1099 said:

Its the standard Lexus service reduced to match the essential service :) 

50k service £275.00 plan £179

 

60k service £675.00 inc spark plugs plan £369

 

70k service £275.00 plan £179

 

£1225 minus £727 plan

 

Saving £498.00

 

My dealer has recommended I go for the 100k service (£599).

So I could the same dealer that offered a discounted warranty, to sell me the 100k service for a lower price than £599, and then still get the work done at my local?

Seems to good to be true!

45 minutes ago, Shahpor said:

Good news!  Nice to see a dealer doing the right thing for a change.

Which dealer offered you the discount on the warranty?

Kent. I contacted about 10 places and this was the only one that would budge!

2 hours ago, hprice1099 said:

Good news, looks like its getting sorted. Told you alway a discount to be had lol I taken a service plan out at £49 per month to cover 3 services, I only done this because I got 3 Lexus services at the price of the essential service, saving £498.  

That's a great service plan you have. What is the name of said service plan please?

I am planning to go with the dealer who offered £995 and see if I can get them to move on the service plan price too

Dealer called me back and is going to arrange a repair at an approved garage they use near to my home, which sounds good

RE the warranty, I contacted a few places and got £100 off (down to £995)

Do people buy the service plans, or just buy services as and when required?

Cheers guys, reassuring to hear that it is going to be in the dealers best interests to fix this and keep the sale

Had a friend look at it today and they reckon it's the latch and the out of place plastic trim isn't affecting it. I suppose that is preferable

Left a message with the dealer's receptionist this afternoon, will follow up in the morning.

No, not a Lexus dealership

Will get in touch with the dealers I brought it from

29 minutes ago, GSLV6 said:

Mixed up with another post, so neglect the wording in bold.  Long and short of it:  in your shoes, I'd be beating a path back to the dealer/person I bought it from pointing out the panel fit issues and the other teething issues and asking for a refund because that panel fit issue suggests it many have been in an accident, and if I thought for a second, someone was holding back on me, I'd be after my money back. Did you do an HPI check and see if it had been subject of an accident repair sometime in its history? Just a thought. 

Do they have to give me a refund just because I ask? I think it unlikely this guys would give me money back on good faith

No, the dealers told me it was HPI clear, and I don't think they risk their reputation by lying about something like that. In hindsight they must have meant it was not a stolen car, rather than once in an accident.

If it was a light shunt and the car was fully repaired it wouldn't bother me. It just doesn't bode well that a repair has been poorly done

5 hours ago, GSLV6 said:

Mine was done for a minimal charge (about £20 from memory) for diagnosis and re-flashing the ECU.  That, from the photos looks like it has been in a knock, but whatever, it doesn't look right at all.  Compare the panel gaps and alignment.  The left side shows panels out of alignment whilst the right shows them in alignment, as if a poor repair has historically been done.  If it was working and isn't working now, that and some of the fault codes would be enough for me.  Speculation aside, I'd be wanting to know from the seller if that car's had some history not declared at point of sale, and if so, asking for a refund.

Can you explain the in bold please?

Starting to worry now that it was in an accident, poorly repaired, and then the dealer I brought it from did a quick fix, knowing it would stop working soon after sale

5 hours ago, Shahpor said:

Well, that is strange.

Any evidence of the left side taking a knock?  It looks like the point has starting rusting as well?  Has the light fitting moved as well?

Is it not locking properly, or does it just look like it is open when you close it?

Unless it is a failure of the locking mechanism, the warranty is not going to help you since it doesn't cover trim.

No such evidence of a bump and the light fitting is ok. I'm always very gentle closing boots and doors too (on any car). Have turned off the boot light though, to prevent the car getting a flat Battery

Well it isn't locked. If I lock the car and then attempt to open the boot then I can (the alarm does go off though). When I was driving, the open boot alarm came on intermittently too

Shame about the warranty. Seems to be a case of a serious fault that the dealer masked from me

Looking at the last 2 photos, it is apparent that the plastic bits on the left and right aren't symmetrical. The left one has a small gap in the plastic, maybe this is causing the issue?

44 minutes ago, GSLV6 said:

Had a similar issue with my 2007 GS300. Took it to Lexus and it turned out to be a software issue on the self-closing mechanism.  A quick re-flash of the ECU and problem solved.

Nice, under warranty? If not, how much did it cost?

Or maybe it's the cold weather and a bit of wd40 does the trick?