fetchez la vache

Evening Chap, are you not tempted to use ECO mode.  I believe that it is the only mode which enables the AGC system to operate.

typically fuel economy improves a little as the engine runs in, previous hybrids I have owned needed up to 10k miles to fully loosen up

...chaps, this is exactly the spec of my car...I’m 5000 miles into ownership now if you have any questions...

Chap, does it last for about a second or so?  Sounds like part of the hybrid system , my IS300H used to make that noise and so does my ES.  It is quite loud which is suprising with the amount of sound deadening in the bulkhead. 

I’m so impressed by the performance of my ES300h that I have renamed it...

Good man, would love a series 1 and the 7 looks rapid! 

...for a few years now I’ve run the family car to do the grind but kept a second car for the perfect antidote to congestion, trackdays. For about 5 years this was a mk1 MX5, then a 106 Rallye, now a Renaultsport Megane 275 Cup-S.

Chill out on the road as they are full of traffic/ cameras etc, kick back in an ES, 5 series, E class etc (you can really throw a hat over them all they are all of the same ilk) and have a total blast on track in a more suitable car...

21 hours ago, Linas.P said:

.... but would you rather get ES or GS, 300h or 350?

P.S. I would not get diesel car either.. but I don't have to.

ES300h please, just like this one...

On the question of performance, I think you got to be honest and says straight away, all these cars are going to be rubbish.  Large, heavy cars, powered by circa 200 bhp diesel or petrol electric engines are never going to set the world alight.  There is no joy in pinning the loud pedal on any of these cars. To say one is better than another is like saying it’s better to be poisoned rather than jumping off a cliff.

The same can be said of handling, S line, M sport, Amg line and F Sport are all totally marketing BS. Put any of these in an actual environment where their performance and handling is laid bare ie a race track and see just how awful these cars actually are.  

But that’s fine, we understand that a 520d msport is not designed to be the greatest performance car BMW has ever made (and as I’ve spent a lot of time over the years driving an E46 M3 CSL in every environment I.e road, track,  autobahn, Austrian pass etc.   That car is arguably the greatest performance car BMW has ever made, so ive  got a reference point here).

these cars will be used on the congested highways and byways, usually at times when the highways and byways are at their most congested.  The hybrid powertrain really shines in this environment.  It is at its quietest and most efficient in traffic.  That’s what it is designed for.  Fun fact, in stop start traffic you can actually drive the ES in total silence just from the steering wheel using radar cruise.  The hybrid It’s a massively relaxing place to be and it needs to be as your going to be in it for 8-10 hours and 300-400 miles per day. 

In the real world, hybrid beats stop/start diesel power.  It’s a compromise sure (and soon to be outdated itself), but it’s better.

To reference back to the review, let’s think about each choice.  The Audi is no doubt a superb car, but having owned an A6 from the emissions scandal period, I’m done with VAG cars.  In the same way UK customers can whistle for their compensation my £40k every 3-4 years walks straight out of their showroom.

The E class, again, a superb car.  2 big issues. The interior.  You might as well walk into the showroom and ask to ‘bling me’.  And I’m sorry to say but the other issue is the whole taxi thing.  

So the BMW.  Let’s put it out there, it won this test as overall it’s the best car.  It just is and in pretty much every metric the ES will fall short in comparison.  the carwow review did hint to the ES’s appeal when it mentioned the black tie analogy.  The BMW is the sharpest cut, best fitting tuxedo.  You will look a million dollars.  Problem is, so will everybody else as they are all wearing the same thing. It’s it nice to turn up at the ball in a white tux and a massive smile on your face.

But to pull off the ‘being different trick’ the ES has to be close enough to the competition.  It cannot be a total disaster as then you are just cutting off your nose to spite your face. The ES manages to be  close enough, while maintaining its quirky appeal (and to my eyes, looking the best of the bunch).  

Chap, I don’t think you should buy an ES, it’s clealry not the right car for you!  I’m a big fan of carwow reviews, they are always worth a watch.  Just one overlooked metric, The German cars are roughly £1500-£2000 a year more in tax for a company car driver.  That a fair chunk of change over 4 years. 

22 hours ago, Sloth said:

.....soooo it seems I can't call a number from my contacts list whilst driving?.......that's essentail for my job....hmmmmm I'm beginning to wonder if an order cancellation is in order here....

I can't pull over every time I want to call someone.

Chap, you can definitely dial a contact while on the move, interestingly you can also receive texts which the car will read out for you.  Maybe Pop into a dealer and ask them to go through the system, it’s certainly not perfect but it’s more than usuable.

Just a quick update.

if your not in too much of a hurry, it can be a very efficient machine.

Just driven from st Albans to Newport South Wales so 150 miles or so.  Quite a bit of roadworks so stretches of 50mph and apart from that travelling 65-70mph

Wonder what I would do on the 17inch wheels? 

On 5/11/2019 at 8:30 PM, Mike246 said:

James (fetchez la vache) dropped a bombshell in his write-up by stating that the upholstery is synthetic. He was gracious enough to follow this with an apology in case he has spoiled my intended purchase.

I have not been idle since learning of this. I have had an ES F-sport Takumi Pack on order since February for July delivery. The options have been carefully considered and where necessary discussed further with the supplying dealership. The upholstery has not been discussed as I was in no doubt from Lexus' on-line brochure (there isn't a printed one) that leather is standard on the F-Sport - Pages 40 & 53 confirm this.

I took this up with Lexus Customer Service. They referred this and came back within a couple of days to confirm that the seats are synthetic and therefore the on-line brochure is wrong. I discussed with them the option of changing tor a base model with Premium Pack (as SH20) and Rich Cream leather - they told me that I would have to have a brown fascia whereas I would wish for black; in doing this I would have to forego the Takumi Pack as ordered which includes the larger satnav screen.

As a general point, many people would prefer leather on a premium car, some might prefer synthetic, others may not be bothered and there may be ethical views. Staining on light leather could be a nightmare. Certainly on a car of this stature and price I would expect no less than quality leather. I raised this issue on the US owners' forum and was told that their ES comes with synthetic seats however an upgrade to perforated leather is available.

First-Lexus makes an interesting point that he would prefer suede. My 1998 GS300 SE has leather which has stood the test of time in the 20 years I have owned it. The non-SE version came with Alcantara - a super Italian suede-like material which was tactile, hard-wearing and as expensive per-metre as leather.

In any event if the car was delivered with plastic seats contrary to Lexus published spec I would hand it back so I am indebted to James for his observations.

So what am I to do? I've considered this carefully and decided that I am going to cancel my order this coming week and buy a Mazda. It's not a hybrid but it comes with quality leather upholstery, all of the goodies including Apple CarPlay and a powered trunk. It will be delivered in 2 weeks and costs £10k less than the ES.

I have three Lexus models in the driveway and this will be the first non-Lexus I will have bought in the last 15 years. This is the first negative post I have ever made regarding Lexus.

Hello Mike, I’m really pleased that you were able to make an informed decision, I suppose it would have been more difficult to reject the car once it was registered in your name and you started using it.  The Mazda is a great car, I am sure you will enjoy your new purchase.  Mazda are a great company, once they release the new skyactive-x petrol engine, which is looking  like it could be a game changer in the sector, i will be looking at a 3 as an alternative to the new CT or UX for my wife. 

On the ES, its interesting that the US cars are also similar but it would have been nice to also have had the option to upgrade to leather on the F Sport.  It would definitely be my choice but not quite the deal breaker for me. 

The quirks of my ES continue to delight and frustrate me in equal measure, I will update this thread shortly with some latest observations. 

Apologies Mike, I don’t want to spoil your purchase, I suppose only you know if your happy with this.  I did raise this with my Lexus dealer during the test drive, the salesman was unsure so he checked for me and confirmed they are synthetic.  If it makes a difference, a base model AMG line E class is the same.. 

Hi Mike,

thanks for the reply.  I’m not sure what to say really, they call it Black Tahara trim. Looks and feels like leather but it’s a synthetic alternative, I think this is the same spec as the base model without the premium pack...

Just a quick warts and all assessment of the first 1000 miles in my ES.  All typed into my phone so please excuse lack of proof reading! The car is an Fsport with Takumi pack.

THE GOOD

Quietness - a very quiet and insulated cabin.  once you are at cruising speed, its impressively quiet.

Engine -  the new 300H unit is much improved over the old one in my IS.  It is now capable of cutting to electric power at high speed (circa 80mph) and in Eco mode this will combine with the active glide control so that you are gliding along without the regenerative system slowing you down.  Although the power rating is similar to the old unit, it does feel abit quicker.

Efficiency - also improved, 50mpg is easy to achieve on a journey, that’s impressive for a big car.

Handling - I’m really pleased I went for the Fsport with the adaptive suspension set-up. Although it’s not the most advaced set-up, it strikes a very good balance.  In eco/ normal mode it has a nice comfortable ride, with a nice degree of ‘wallow’, the 19inch wheels detract from this a little but it’s still good.  Sport and Sports+ just tightens it up enough to give it a sporty edge.  You would never take it on a trackday, but it feels a nicely resolved set-up. Front wheel drive is really not an issue in handling terms.

Audio - the ML setup is fantastic, I’m a self confessed hifi geek and feeding Lossless Tidal hifi into the ML system sounds incredible.  I’m going to play about with master quality files to really stretch its legs.  The quietness of the cabin also helps the audio playback.

Quality -  everything feels really well screwed together, if feels a high quality product.

Size - it’s a big car at nearly 5metres Long and the interior space is huge.  You can stretch the front seats right back and there will still be ample room in the back.  But it doesn’t feel like a large car to drive,  I think this is a combination of a relatively low curb weight (1750kg?) and good front visibility. 

Exclusivity -  it’s a little thing, but the number of ES’s sold will be tiny in the UK.  You feel like Toyota have spent billions of dollars developing a car just for you.  I think the chances of seeing another car on the road this year are very small. It’s nice to drive something a little different.

Details - lots of nice little touches.  keyless entry working on the back door  handles as well as front.  it’s a small thing but when you are parked in a car park it means you don’t have to squeeze your way to the front handle.  Front radar is hidden behind the Lexus logo,so no unslightly black plastic square in the grille.  If you have the sun blind up and reverse the car, it automatically lowers.  It has a G meter! The Takumi pack includes a credit car key, pop it in you wallet and you don’t need your keys.  Heads up display is massive and contains all sort of information such as audio track name, it will also just flash up with a massive red ‘BRAKE’ sign if it thinks you are going to hit the car in front....the front internal lights are touch sensitive.  the auto function for the heated wheel and seats works really well. Adaptive LED headlights are fantastic, they also include cornering lights. When you turn them on they go through some sort of lighting sequence, Again abit bling but nice. The front indicators are sequential LED, again abit bling (but nice). If you get too close to the car in front in slowing traffic, you can temporarily mute the parking sensor with the ok button on the steering wheel.

THE BAD

Seats -  although very supportive and look good, they are synthetic in the FSport.  They really should be leather. The leather trim on the dash, wheel and gear selector is good quality but it’s a big omission for the rest of the cabin to be synthetic but I did know about this beforehand.  No vented option on seats, this was great in my IS. 

Front wheel drive -  it’s a very good set up but with the UK roads, when you hit a bad pothole it will loose traction and the TC will light . A really bad surface will leave the front trying to find grip and you will get a sideways movement on the front end.  It’s a typical FWD trait, RWD is a more composed setup for poor road surfaces. 

Cabin - there are a few cheaper plastics on the bottom of the door trims, it’s a typical Toyota setup which is fine.  However, the areas around the base of the centre console should be better quality materials.

Exterior chrome.  The chrome detailing to the front and back is smoked on the FSport.  The sides of the car has unsmoked chrome.  It’s a little thing, but that is just odd!! 

Rear privacy glass.  It’s too dark, it’s basically black.

Boot -  Width and depth is good but the sloping rear profile robs it of height, it’s adequate size but not brilliant.

infotainment -  the 12inch screen is great, no problem using the trackpad, it actually works very well.  The system feels under-utilised.  There is an App Store but no apps? No CarPlay, only miracast? No idea what this is but not supported by apple. 80% of it is good, it just feels like the last 20% is unfinished. 

cooling fan -  the Battery pack under the back seats has a cooling port at low level on the drivers side.  I’m not sure if it’s on at all times but I parked up the other day and you can actually hear the fan working behind you.

My impression of the first 1000 miles.  In general, I’m a very happy customer.

Linas.p, I think we might have to agree to disagree on this one.  I have to admit, I’m really happy with my ES, to me it’s a reliable and comfortable cruiser, with a fantastic hifi, low company car tax and nice and safe for the kids. It will also be a very rare sight in the UK and I kinda like that exclusively. Equally, I can understand those who are disappointed if it doesn’t quite tick all their boxes.  I’ve got 4-5 years and about 100,000 miles to put it through its paces.

Firstly, E class and ES are preceusly in the same segment.  But Ok, spec up an Audi A6 2.0tdi to the same level as an ES Fsport Takumi, again , it’s a £50k plus motor.  My point is, you cannot have everything, if you want better materials, but the more expensive car.  

Forgive me, but I feel you being A bit unrealistic with the standard of interior quality Lexus should be providing.  The es F sport with the Takumi pack is a circa £43k car, sounds a lot of money until you spec up a comparable rival model.  An E class hybrid of a comparable spec would be circa £53k, but the Lexus should still have a better interior? Add in the exclusivity of the low sales volume of the ESand it starts to look good value.   

Sometging to bear in mind.  It tips the vehicle over the £40k mark so it’s an extra £320 per year road tax.

My F sport has the pack, for me it’s worth it as I’m a bit of a Hi Fi geek so the ML system is a must.

powered boot, heated wheel And key card for access are nice touches as well

Here’s a picture of Hatfield’s demo F-sport.  I would say that the lights are smoked. 

Hi chaps, new to this site.  I walked into my local dealer in Hatfield last week, and they had a new unregistered F sport in white with the Takumi Pack just sitting there in the showroom.  They were happy for me to buy it so I’m picking it up next week after the Easter hols  😁

 It replaces a white IS300H F sport which I have had for 4 years.