Wardair

Quick update on my exhaust repair/upgrade.

I found a local stainless exhaust fabricator and discussed my needs which was essentially fixing the completely rotted flanges and at the same time improving the exhaust volume/tone.

After much discussion he suggested we could re-use the existing stainless components and re-build using new stainless pipe. As I could not decide on what new rear box to fit (for a totally new system he would have put in new resonators and two smaller rear boxes), I went with the rebuild option which still gives me the option to change the rear box for something sportier at a later date. So the car is still very quiet but I have already got used to that.

I asked him to retain the third cat as the ULEZ is to be extended to within a few miles from where I live and I am not sure if removing it might have caused a future potential emissions standards problem?

The picture below was taken at the restorers who are now doing the under-body rust treatment (see other thread which I will update when I get the car back).

Martin

On 7/5/2022 at 12:56 PM, Wardair said:

Visited Style Dynamics today and very impressed. Clearly very experienced exhaust fabricators and currently working on some very interesting cars.

A replacement system as per standard but without 3rd cat in Stainless is £1,100 as on eBay.

Unfortunately, I will need front flanges repaired (cut and weld new SS flanges and O2 sensor port onto existing front cats).

Now the difficult part, deciding if I should add the 3rd cat and what length of resonators to have fitted (16 inch is the standard length installed but these can be shortened to 9 inch to add some volume).

Rear box will be same size as the standard box (this is a Full Flow standard box used for Nissan and Lexus) so larger than the one pictured in my early post. They do not put the little plastic airflow parts back on the new box(not sure how important these are to underfloor airflow (see pic)?).

Can anyone help with the resonator length to go for?  This is a tough call as once it is made it will cost me to change if I get it wrong. It is a shame these companies do not have an exhaust sound sample volume table in decibels and example audio clips.

Of course these air flow deflectors are NOT plastic - what was I thinking? - M

10 hours ago, Lexiguy said:

Hi Martin

I have put her away in the garage and I don't want to disturb her! lol

I will look tomorrow, find its name, get its dimensions and message you.

Are you still coming to the meet on Sunday, if so you can listen to several with modified exhausts. Pick the one you like best and then photograph, video, measure and record names!

If you are coming up Saturday you can listen to mine on the road!

Anthony 

Hi Anthony, Still not sure about Sunday but the opportunity to listen to your car and several others makes it a stronger possibility.

Opportunity for someone to do a video comparing the various modified exhaust set ups and put it on the forum?

Martin

4 hours ago, Lexiguy said:

Hi Martin 

Did you read back through my earlier messages on this exhaust feed because I had exactly the same dilemma as you?

In the end I trusted the exhaust place to replicate what type of sound I wanted and the volume.

Much to my amazement the tone and volume was exactly right!

So if you trust them explain what you want and cross your fingers...

Anthony

Hi Anthony,

sorry now seen your other thread and listened to your recording. Many thanks for that, can you tell me what size/make of rear box you have?

Martin

3 hours ago, Lexiguy said:

Hi Martin 

Did you read back through my earlier messages on this exhaust feed because I had exactly the same dilemma as you?

In the end I trusted the exhaust place to replicate what type of sound I wanted and the volume.

Much to my amazement the tone and volume was exactly right!

So if you trust them explain what you want and cross your fingers...

Anthony

Hi Anthony,

I didn't see anything on noise volume was it in another thread?

Whilst I trust they will make a great exhaust system, they are a sports specialist and had a hot rod which they were building a custom manifold for and a pickup which when they moved it sounded more like a racing car. When I said it would nice if my car could have a bit louder/sporty exhaust note, he said what is loud to you may be quiet for me and I really have to make the decision on length of resonator. The rear box they proposed is a high flow so will also let more sound out.

Late news: I have now found another fabricator very local to me who said he can do the job (did an SC some time ago) and is prepared to reuse the center cat if it is OK and suggested that the rear box (body) may be stainless but with mild steel pipes and this could possibly be reused if I wanted to save money but this would mean the car would still be quiet as a mouse.

I am awaiting his price.

Martin

Martin

Update: After a lot of research and discussions with various companies, during which I considered many different products including Waxoyl, Noxudol 700, Tetrasyl, Gravitex, Dynax S50, Dinitrol. Each company seems to have its favourite product/solution and it makes choosing one very difficult.

I did not want the standard black thick underseal look on everything which can look like a cover-up operation, so I explored other options with a local restoration company. I was also made aware that if you get it wrong the stuff can be a nightmare to remove.

I am closing in on getting them to clean the underside and treat box cavities with a wax based protector and the visible chassis/body with UPOL Raptor which is a very tough paint. Still not sure about the suspension arms but they are something I can probably do myself at a later date. The main aim is to get the under-body/chassis protected before winter.

Any comments pro or con would be appreciated.

Martin

Visited Style Dynamics today and very impressed. Clearly very experienced exhaust fabricators and currently working on some very interesting cars.

A replacement system as per standard but without 3rd cat in Stainless is £1,100 as on eBay.

Unfortunately, I will need front flanges repaired (cut and weld new SS flanges and O2 sensor port onto existing front cats).

Now the difficult part, deciding if I should add the 3rd cat and what length of resonators to have fitted (16 inch is the standard length installed but these can be shortened to 9 inch to add some volume).

Rear box will be same size as the standard box (this is a Full Flow standard box used for Nissan and Lexus) so larger than the one pictured in my early post. They do not put the little plastic airflow parts back on the new box(not sure how important these are to underfloor airflow (see pic)?).

Can anyone help with the resonator length to go for?  This is a tough call as once it is made it will cost me to change if I get it wrong. It is a shame these companies do not have an exhaust sound sample volume table in decibels and example audio clips.

21 hours ago, Neil E said:

It was designed and built with 3 cats but lots of owners have removed the 3rd cat without having issues with the MOT emissions test.

If it's a high flow sports cat then I doubt it will make any significant difference to the performance or the sound but it should lower the emissions and help the environment by a small fraction.🙂

If substantial, the rear silencer does most of the noise reduction and keeps it 'civilised.' Retaining the centre resonators as well should limit the sound to what I would call a 'mild sports' tone. Others advocate keeping the centre resonators or fitting small mufflers instead and removing the rear silencer but it's much louder. It also results in a void where the rear box should sit and that can't help the air flow. 

 I drew this a little while ago for one of the many similar exhaust threads.🤣 

 I've become one of those old fellas who tell the same old story like a broken record on Groundhog Day.🙄🤣

 

Hi Neil,

Many thanks for the 'old fella' story. This info will help me in my discussion with the fabricator. I plan to visit them either tomorrow or Tuesday so they can inspect the system. I may still go for the third 'sports' cat to ensure ULEZ emissions compliance, as I have n doubt the ULEZ zone will be extended in the not too distant future. This extra spend will be my 'green' contribution 😉

Martin

On 6/26/2022 at 5:28 PM, Lexiguy said:

Eureka I know what was wrong, it was the male end on the y lead for Bluetooth music.

The outer two pins on the plug were loose and slid back into the block when it was plugged into the female part.

So armed with that knowledge, a bit of insulation tape and great care it appears to now be well connected!

 

Hi Ant,

That sounds like pretty poor build quality, did you get it from the same place I used? It has made me want to have a look at mine again sometime although all is working fine atm.

One slightly annoying thing for me is the phone seems to set its volume mid level on first connection with the BT module and I then have to turn the phone volume up to get the sound at same level as the car radio/CD. It may just be a quirk of my phone/settings and it is not a big deal really.

Martin

14 hours ago, Neil E said:

I don't know them but they look much better, it's one of the Powerflow franchise, they tell a good story, seem enthusiastic and that's a decent looking SS exhaust set up for an SC. 

3rd cat delete, Y merge out to 2 resonators, dual into the rear box and out to the tails. 

🤣🤣 Following my advice should probably come with a health/wealth warning Ant.🙃 I spent eye-watering amounts of time and money on the exhaust.🤣

For words of wisdom, listen to Bob. 👍

Hi Neil, I am planning to go and see them soon to explore options (mainly amount of silencing) and price. Is there any downside to the 3rd cat delete? Will ULEZ compliance technically be lost? They have given me an additional price to add a sports cat as the 3rd but it adds £200 + vat.

Martin

13 hours ago, Neil E said:

New flanges to the front is good advice but a good fabricator would take 6 hours to do the whole thing. Comparing the quality of the work on their website to others, I would walk away swiftly. 

Hi Neil,

I appreciate your feedback. I also felt the price was pitched high and the fabricator was hardly enthusiastic about the job which put me off straight away.

Do you know anything about Style Dynamics in High Wycombe? Looks like they do a stainless system at a more reasonable price (see pic).

Martin

On 6/19/2022 at 12:23 PM, Wardair said:

Hi Andy,

I am also planning an exhaust upgrade when the rusting clamps finally give way. I found this guy https://mikestokes.co.uk/services/exhausts

Plan to visit him for a discussion and quote in a few weeks.

Martin

Hi Andy,

I visited Mike Stokes today and after looking at my exhaust his fabricator recommended removal of the whole system re-flanging the front cats as they are badly rusted (he showed them to me) then all new stainless including a new third center cat.

3 days work and £2500!

Currently having a rethink.....

Martin

On 6/16/2022 at 10:54 AM, Alanh12 said:

sc430, 2004, 79k, well serviced, standard alloys, good tyres

recent addition and only just started using it to be honest

never driven one before so not sure what to expect

Im finding steering vague and sometimes wandery, as an extreme comparison, id say far milder symptoms but like a series 3 landrover

Is this normal?

checked tyre pressures, tyres look to be tracking normally, no obvious things going on under the car ie track rod ends, rack gaiters

Any comments welcomed. thanks

Hi Alan,

I have a recently acquired 2007 SC430 and also find the steering strange. It feels a bit like there is play in the steering and it is on run flat tyres.

The car has just passed an MoT had a 4 wheel alignment check and the non RFT tyres are good.

As it was going to Lexus Gatwick for cambelt/waterpump replacement I asked them to check the suspension/steering bushes when they did the vehicle inspection and they reported no obvious issues, so at least I know the MoT guy didn't miss something.

Let me know if/when you find what the issue is, as it is the one thing that I am unhappy with on what I think is a great car.

Martin

Hi everyone and thanks for the various advice and suggestions.

I am still exploring the market and wonder has anyone had any experience with https://underbodyrustprotection.co.uk/ ? They are based in Buckinghamshire near Bicester and the photos on the website look good.

I really need to get this done this summer so will have to select a company soon or start doing it myself.

Martin

14 hours ago, Lexiguy said:

Hi Martin 

Sorry to confuse you but as Russ says, it is on Sunday 10th July.

Ant

Hi Ant,

I have put the date in my diary but cannot confirm attendance until nearer the day. I will try to make it as it would be good to meet other SC owners.

p.s. my car is currently at Lexus Gatwick for new cambelt, waterpump and radiator.

Regards

Martin

Hi Andy,

I am also planning an exhaust upgrade when the rusting clamps finally give way. I found this guy https://mikestokes.co.uk/services/exhausts

Plan to visit him for a discussion and quote in a few weeks.

Martin

On 5/13/2022 at 6:20 PM, Neil E said:

I expect the new bluetooth addition is triggering the aerial remote lead. It should be a blue or blue and white cable. Fitting a switch in between it would give you control over the aerial. 

Hi, just to let you know my aerial is still working fine with the Bluetooth module connected. The aerial retracts when CD or CD1 (Bluetooth module) is selected.

Martin

6 minutes ago, Wardair said:

Hi Neil, I think the reason the simple German Bluetooth module works so well is that it has an integrated amplifier, many other solutions use a Bluetooth dongle and some dongles are very poor quality, I know I have a drawer full of them!

Bluetooth (which was never designed for audio streaming) has come a long way over the past few years and with some Codecs the quality can be 'similar' to CD, The aptX compression standard already promises CD quality audio, of course is not the same as CD technically but Spotify (which I use) have used Ogg Vorbis compression and can get great quality audio to the phone and after that it is down to the link to the module or into the car via an aux in.

This text is from the Module supplier:-

Developed in Germany Integrated amplifier for optimal audio enjoyment Supports up to Bluetooth 5.0 for low power consumption Integrated antenna for stable connection throughout the vehicle Installation: Minimum installation effort The adapter is connected invisibly to the back of the radio No additional wiring required for the power supply The radio automatically recognizes it as a CD changer, no aux input needs to be activated.'

Kind regards

Martin

On 5/8/2022 at 12:15 PM, Neil E said:

Hi Ant. Well that's a great result for little cost, I was expecting you to say it's worse but so much more convenient. I have bluetooth streaming capability via the Alpine HU and it's terrible. I can flip between the 2 sources using the same track (CD/DVD vs iphone/ipad) and the difference is like night and day with so much of the audio frequencies missing and the music distorting over bluetooth.   

Hi Neil, I think the reason the simple German Bluetooth module works so well is that it has an integrated amplifier, many other solutions use a Bluetooth dongle and some dongles are very poor quality, I know I have a drawer full of them!

Bluetooth (which was never designed for audio streaming) has come a long way over the past few years and with some Codecs the quality can be 'similar' to CD, The aptX compression standard already promises CD quality audio, of course is not the same as CD technically but Spotify (which I use) have used Ogg Vorbis compression and can get great quality audio to the phone and after that it is down to the link to the module or into the car via an aux in.

This text is from the Module supplier:-

Developed in Germany Integrated amplifier for optimal audio enjoyment Supports up to Bluetooth 5.0 for low power consumption Integrated antenna for stable connection throughout the vehicle Installation: Minimum installation effort The adapter is connected invisibly to the back of the radio No additional wiring required for the power supply The radio automatically recognizes it as a CD changer, no aux input needs to be activated.'

Kind regards

Martin

On 5/8/2022 at 7:31 PM, Lexiguy said:

Perhaps I should do a more thorough test but I wonder what Martins thoughts are on quality differences!

Ant

Hi Ant, sorry I have been off the forum for a while hence no response to your posts/questions.

Great that you got your module working OK as I was a little worried you may not have had the same P3933 head unit as me. And yes you do not need the 5+7 pin lead supplied with the module but this direct connect might be required for some other radio head units or for cars without Navigation (did any SC's not have satnav?).

Regarding sound quality. The Mark Levinson system in the SC is one of the best audio systems I have ever heard in a car and I can confirm the streaming audio quality I get is excellent and sounds just as good to me as a CD. An alternative module I tried was very poor quality and degraded the CD audio as well.

I do not have the technical info on the Bluetooth module supplied from Germany (it is shrink wrapped so cannot inspect it without cutting the cover off) or my phones Bluetooth audio streaming technical capability, so I  cannot confirm the data bit rate or audio Codec used, but as I said above I cannot detect any degradation in quality and the convenience and access to audio from a wide range of sources  is a major plus.

I hope others can test the Bluetooth module with some of the other head units as this may be a good solution for all SC owners.

Martin

p.s. still working on the auto mirror fold - M

Quick update.

Having reviewed the LS430 Diagnostics Manual yesterday, I can confirm the MIND signal from the LS dashboard mirror switch is what the SC430 is missing. The switch connects to the Driver Side Junction Block and this somehow tells the door ECU's to auto retract (the signal can be viewed under Body 2 in Techstream). The two states for this signal are 1) Mirror is Except Retract 2) Mirror is retract position.

I now have to gain access to the Drivers Side Junction block and try emulating this signal and see if the mirrors autofold. If they don't then I assume the Door ECU's in the LS and SC are different in some way.

The cheap and cheerful Auto Mirror Fold box I have bought will work if one is installed in each door as all the required signals are there, but I am hoping that will not be required.

to be continued......

23 minutes ago, Neil E said:

It's a while since I owned an LS430 but yes I believe that's correct Martin, the centre setting on the LS switch is the auto-fold position.

I can't find the LS mirror wiring diagram but in searching, I found this which I think confirms the above and provides a better explanation to Ant than I could about the switch.🤣

I'm really no use when it comes to the various blue-tooth adapters as all of my audio and sat-nav is aftermarket. 

 

Thanks Neil. Here are the LS and SC mirror retract ccts for comparison.

I have finished my Bluetooth so will continue working on the mirror project tomorrow - M

LS430 Mirror Retract Cct.pdf SC430 Door Mirror Cct.pdf

LS430 Mirror Retract Cct.pdfLS430 Mirror Retract Cct.pdf

3 hours ago, Neil E said:

Thanks Ant but Martin should take all of the credit. 

I will have a look with Techstream when I get time but I dLS430 Mirror Retract Cct.pdfon't think it was giving me that level of door control detail Martin.

I rarely need to fold my mirrors so happy with a manual switch but I think if I was trying to make it work, I might try to see if the LS 3-way toggle switch and associated wiring/components could be utilised.  That said, unlike the SC430, if memory serves, the LS doors stay live after the ignition is switched off until the door is opened. (Perhaps an LS owner might confirm)Lexus just didn't put the same level of tech into the SC and GS that the LS enjoyed.

 

Hi Neil, I too thought the LS switch might help so I looked at the LS430 wiring diagrams. The LS switch has a MIND signal and from a quick review it seems Auto fold could be a default if the switch is not left or right which is the manual control options.

My gut feeling is that this could still be a system setting and that once I can find and emulate the missing signal the existing switch may operate as a manual override similar to the LS switch. Do you have an LS switch to tell me what connections are made in the auto position?

The SC Door ECU is live as it has to be for the door locks however it could be the mirror ccts may only be active if IGN or ACC is on (key in ignition). I need to spend a bit more time on it but been busy installing Bluetooth streaming.

1 hour ago, Russ59 said:

Does this only work on the facelift model?

I have a 2004 pre facelift and recently contacted Grom about their Bluetooth kits as their advert said from 2005 > only.

They asked for a pic of the rear plugs on my radio, so I sent one and they said the Y cables would work, so I ordered the kit. their instructions say to press the Disc button twice to display CD1

Nothing changed, so wouldn’t work on my 2004 radio.

Are the pin layouts in the plugs or radio different between pre facelift and facelift?

Hi Russ,

I messaged the German supplier about their module and was assured it worked with the SC430 radios. It came with a 5+7 connector which is for the 3 plug radio hence I needed to buy a 20 pin Y cable. I bought another module before finding this one and it did not work properly. I think it may be the way the module emulates a second CD unit. This one works fine with my radio but you may want to message the supplier with your radio info. They do have a 30 day return policy but you will need to send it back to Germany.

 I know this has been a problem for many in the past with some solutions needing a blank CD and others costing well over £100, so I was over the moon when the module I got worked exactly as I wanted.

Regards

Martin

21 hours ago, Wardair said:

I have just added Bluetooth music streaming capability to my car and thought I should share the info as others may wish to do the same. My car already had Bluetooth Phone capability so I only needed to add audio streaming but the same company does a dual module that adds Bluetooth phone as well as music streaming if that is needed.

First I purchased a Y cable that intercepts the signals from the radio to the amplifier. (There are many videos showing how to remove the radio to add the cable). Unfortunately the first cable I purchased didn't fit as it was for the earlier radios with three connectors at the back. My 2007 SC430 has the radio with only two connectors. It has the 20 pin connector P3933 radio but I understand the Bluetooth module should work with the other radios you just need to use a different Y cable.

Once installed you press the CD button twice and the radio switches to the Bluetooth module and the radio indicator on the left shows CDI. Pressing the CD button again switches the radio back to the standard CD player which works as normal.

You search and pair your phone to BlueMusic and then any audio from the phone (other than phone calls) are played via the module. I use Spotify and the radio controls also switch the tracks. I also use Google Maps for Satnav and the instructions are played through the radio perfectly.

It took me a while to find the right bits but the end result is great and sound quality superb.  Both parts were bought on eBay and came from Germany (see links below).

Bluetooth Module https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254491526428

20 pin Y cable https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/202495696446

Btw - I have two Y cables going cheap a 5+7 (for the three connector radios and a 6+6 (TOY2) which is for some other cars/radios.

Any questions just ask.

Martin

 

Sorry I should have said DISC button but I guess most knew what I meant. Here is a picture showing the CDI symbol on the radio when the DISC button is pressed twice.