Lexusjohn

Just to play devils advocate here and as I am soon to be an RX450 owner and I am new to the forum I wanted to ask why does it seem that various threads appear to have such a downer on the 450? Having never owned a Lexus before i am open to all opinions and interested in all discussions.

Having done my test drive and loved it and ran terrified from BMW and merc garages as they dragged out their list of expensive extras I am thrilled and waiting expectantly for my new purchase. I just hope that the 450 starts to grow on people or it looks like I will be billy few mates on the forum.

LOL - I thought we would all love every Lexus as this is the Lexus forum!!!!!

You'll soon get to know that there is a group of posters that seem to delight in slagging off anything to do with hybrids.They seem to have a real bee in their bonnet.

And rather than accepting that some people can make different choices that run contrary to their opinions,they have a very insulting and inpolite attitude towards those others who make alternative choices.If other people responded,I'm sure there would be quite a slanging match.

I am sure you are now regarded as an idiot to them,as they know better,gabbler69.I am sure that you are not one,so welcome to the forum and enjoy your new hybrid,I am sure it will be a pleasure to own and drive.

I will take this post as "AIMED" at me , so I do NOT think anyone on here or any other forums I'm on are "Idiots" far from it. If we can not be constructive and test these cars out for what they are proposed to be then it's a sad world we live in.

I test drive most "High end" cars, and have owned many of them as well. nuf said :shutit:

Just to play devils advocate here and as I am soon to be an RX450 owner and I am new to the forum I wanted to ask why does it seem that various threads appear to have such a downer on the 450? Having never owned a Lexus before i am open to all opinions and interested in all discussions.

Having done my test drive and loved it and ran terrified from BMW and merc garages as they dragged out their list of expensive extras I am thrilled and waiting expectantly for my new purchase. I just hope that the 450 starts to grow on people or it looks like I will be billy few mates on the forum.

LOL - I thought we would all love every Lexus as this is the Lexus forum!!!!!

Well, the top of the range RX450h is 5K MORE than the top spec X6 35D, yep 5K, so where did you go for your info, the Lexus is nothing like as quick, economical, and handles like a bean bag compaired to the X6.

Unless you buy top of the range Lexus, the seats are to "SHORT" and tall people feel as though they are falling off them as they do not have enough "Tilt" adjustment". I could go on but whats the use. Lexus DO NOT do as they advertise, and that's the top and bottom of it, this coupled to increased (beyond the cars worth) pricing will ensure it's failiar.

They are not selling as expected.

This car has been extensivly tested in the US and if you watch their videos you will quickly see this cars downfall or rather

"Lack of forward progress".

Hey John, I wasn't trying to get in a row with the "BMW lovers uk.co.uk" I was just tying to find some Lexus lovers on this Lexus owners club, didn't want to offend you or you car, just trying to get a feel why there is a seemingly long running hate of the 450!!

Anyway must go I need to log onto the BMW owners forum and tell them how great the RX450 is and see how that goes down ;-)

No offence mate, I am not here for Lexus bashing, it's just I so wanted it to be as advertised, then I would have bought one, again no probs we must however speak as we find. :winky:

Ha ha yeah totally that's a good philosophy to have, your right it's a shame you didn't like it, mine is about to arrive so I will report back on it's pros and cons after several months of testing, perhaps we can exchange notes!!!!

Enjoy your Beamer!!!!!

Hope it's all you want, Enjoy and report your findings please, good luck.

Just to play devils advocate here and as I am soon to be an RX450 owner and I am new to the forum I wanted to ask why does it seem that various threads appear to have such a downer on the 450? Having never owned a Lexus before i am open to all opinions and interested in all discussions.

Having done my test drive and loved it and ran terrified from BMW and merc garages as they dragged out their list of expensive extras I am thrilled and waiting expectantly for my new purchase. I just hope that the 450 starts to grow on people or it looks like I will be billy few mates on the forum.

LOL - I thought we would all love every Lexus as this is the Lexus forum!!!!!

Well, the top of the range RX450h is 5K MORE than the top spec X6 35D, yep 5K, so where did you go for your info, the Lexus is nothing like as quick, economical, and handles like a bean bag compaired to the X6.

Unless you buy top of the range Lexus, the seats are to "SHORT" and tall people feel as though they are falling off them as they do not have enough "Tilt" adjustment". I could go on but whats the use. Lexus DO NOT do as they advertise, and that's the top and bottom of it, this coupled to increased (beyond the cars worth) pricing will ensure it's failiar.

They are not selling as expected.

This car has been extensivly tested in the US and if you watch their videos you will quickly see this cars downfall or rather "Lack of forward progress".

Hey John, I wasn't trying to get in a row with the "BMW lovers uk.co.uk" I was just tying to find some Lexus lovers on this Lexus owners club, didn't want to offend you or you car, just trying to get a feel why there is a seemingly long running hate of the 450!!

Anyway must go I need to log onto the BMW owners forum and tell them how great the RX450 is and see how that goes down ;-)

No offence mate, I am not here for Lexus bashing, it's just I so wanted it to be as advertised, then I would have bought one, again no probs we must however speak as we find. :winky:

You can turn the current road box off in the options, pretty much everything with the sat nav can be customised, its way more flexible than the pro nav in my previous car, an e61.

Completely agree with the handling and performance, BMW are class leading in the exec sector pretty much across the board, if you want a sports diesel exec get the BMW. Only the XF comes anywhere near close to a BMW and the diesel S is a bit soft compared to a M Sport.

Econ for the 35d is way better on a long, straight run, round town I'd give it to the Lexus if you can be careful, 35 to 40 is possible with a little effort, it does depend on driving style. Short journeys always used to ruin the econ in my BMW.

As for cost of ownership the RX 450h makes the most sense if its a company car (like mine) due to its lower BIK (I save about ~£300 net a month compared to a similar spec X6) and its higher standard spec (once you are past the basic model) as options seem to be dead weight on the lease cost as the leasing company doesn't seem to adjust the future value of the car upwards to reflect £5k of options on the BMW. All in all I'm saving about ~£450 a month net with the Lexus compared to the BMW, or more than half as much again what the Lexus costs me net.

Totally agree with you on a "Business" user, around town the lexus wins no doubt, BUT I like many don't drive much in town, so not so good for me.

What gets up my nose is all the "HYPE" about technology from Lexus and yet still is falls way short of "STATED" facts and figures.

Just where have these millions of pounds worth of improvement got the car from the 400h, in short NOWHERE.

LexusJohn - I understand that you have an X6 and everyone is entitled to their opinon but to say that there has been no improvement since 400h is a little unfair. To play devils advocate I have driven both X5 and X6 and yes they "out-handle" the RX450 - or to put it another way the ride comfort of the X5/X6 is absolutely woeful next to RX450 which having not even a whiff of sportiness about it is a much more relaxing drive.

As for economy it is a lot down to driving style. You claim upto 40 mpg in your X6 but Top gear are claiming 24 for the same car? What car averaged 37 mpg in RX450 in their tests? It will depend entirely on journey type and driving style. One thing I do know is the RX will switch off and save fuel in traffic but X6 won't.

If you are a business user you can't ignore the 14% BIK and as a non business user you can't ignore the congestion charging saving and less road tax.

I also prefer to be a Lexus owner rather than BMW owner - as a past owner I was never that impressed with BMWs customer service.

Anyway please don't see this as Lexus good BMW bad rant - it isn't! I just feel it is important to say that it's horses for courses. I liked the RX as it suits my driving style and I like the looks, equipment and feel of it. You seem not to - great. Just be glad that we can still drive vehicles that suits our needs and wants still in this day and age.....

Firstly as I have said before, I drive "OUT" of town most times, YES the Lexus is better in town.

Top Gear: Well I can drive my car like a loony and get 28MPG, and I mean loony, Clakson must be taken for what he is, nough said.

IF I drive the Lexus 450h like a nun I can achieve 40 MPG UNDER 55MPH, now who drives on motorways at this speed?, not me thats for sure.

At motorways speeds I can average 37MPG in the X6, around town 30MPG.

My driving style must have something to do with it YES, but the same stle was applied to the Lexus and it came up; expensive with less toys and absoutly NO get-up-and-go.

SO NO FUN, and lets face it FUN is a driving factor.

BMW Connect can find you a food store, hotel, golf club whatever while you drive, just press a button and tell them where and what you require, also "Google Maps" can be directly downloaded into the car from anywhere straight into your nav system ( which is good) so.

Just to play devils advocate here and as I am soon to be an RX450 owner and I am new to the forum I wanted to ask why does it seem that various threads appear to have such a downer on the 450? Having never owned a Lexus before i am open to all opinions and interested in all discussions.

Having done my test drive and loved it and ran terrified from BMW and merc garages as they dragged out their list of expensive extras I am thrilled and waiting expectantly for my new purchase. I just hope that the 450 starts to grow on people or it looks like I will be billy few mates on the forum.

LOL - I thought we would all love every Lexus as this is the Lexus forum!!!!!

Well, the top of the range RX450h is 5K MORE than the top spec X6 35D, yep 5K, so where did you go for your info, the Lexus is nothing like as quick, economical, and handles like a bean bag compaired to the X6.

Unless you buy top of the range Lexus, the seats are to "SHORT" and tall people feel as though they are falling off them as they do not have enough "Tilt" adjustment". I could go on but whats the use. Lexus DO NOT do as they advertise, and that's the top and bottom of it, this coupled to increased (beyond the cars worth) pricing will ensure it's failiar.

They are not selling as expected.

This car has been extensivly tested in the US and if you watch their videos you will quickly see this cars downfall or rather "Lack of forward progress".

Hi Guys,

Purely for interest, my IS250 SE MM is in for a service on Monday, and the GM at Croydon has organised use of the RX450h for me. I love the IS and this forum, which seems to be light years ahead of anything else I have looked at, in terms of the quality of the contributions etc.

I am not convinced I would buy one, but would be really interested in any comments you may have, and will of course report back.

Not sure I am clever enough to post this on another bit of the LOC but will try.

P.S.

Have exceeded my expectations and hope this appears on the correct forum. Not sure I'll have time to read all the threads so any one liners would be appreciated.

DJP

Sorry bud, if you think the IS250 is ahead of anything you aint looked around. Test drove the RX450h for a whole day, economy 31MPG not pushing it, general handling compaired to my X6 35D................................... poor.

HUD does not give enough information on the sceen, seats are not comfortable unless you pay for the top of the range model to get electric front extension ( could not tilt the seat back far enough without this add on) and I felt like I was falling off the seat most of the time!!!!

Drives ok in a straight line, and has a bit of go when required, but noisey when pushed up the rev range.

Sat-Nav, awful black boxed "current road your on" depicted right across where your car is on the screen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! whats that all about.

Overal a disapointment and way over priced.

Lastly servicing, who in this day and age needs a service every 10K???????. my X6 needs an OIL change only in 19K, yep nothing else, thats almost TWO years motoring for me, and @ £300+ per service from Lexus thats robery.

Sorry, I think you misunderstood, what I meant was that the forum was light years ahead of anything else, not the car! Although, I do love the IS250. As far as the RX450h is concerned, it was interesting to drive if only to experience the hybrid technology. I'm not bothered about mpg and am not at all technical when it comes to cars, but no way would I pay £55k for it, and agree the HUD doesn't do enough. The handling wasn't great either but it was worth the £10 courtesy car charge. Mine is back in next week for some warranty work, be intersested to see what they give me next.

Well worth £10 IMO, best regards

You can turn the current road box off in the options, pretty much everything with the sat nav can be customised, its way more flexible than the pro nav in my previous car, an e61.

Completely agree with the handling and performance, BMW are class leading in the exec sector pretty much across the board, if you want a sports diesel exec get the BMW. Only the XF comes anywhere near close to a BMW and the diesel S is a bit soft compared to a M Sport.

Econ for the 35d is way better on a long, straight run, round town I'd give it to the Lexus if you can be careful, 35 to 40 is possible with a little effort, it does depend on driving style. Short journeys always used to ruin the econ in my BMW.

As for cost of ownership the RX 450h makes the most sense if its a company car (like mine) due to its lower BIK (I save about ~£300 net a month compared to a similar spec X6) and its higher standard spec (once you are past the basic model) as options seem to be dead weight on the lease cost as the leasing company doesn't seem to adjust the future value of the car upwards to reflect £5k of options on the BMW. All in all I'm saving about ~£450 a month net with the Lexus compared to the BMW, or more than half as much again what the Lexus costs me net.

Totally agree with you on a "Business" user, around town the lexus wins no doubt, BUT I like many don't drive much in town, so not so good for me.

What gets up my nose is all the "HYPE" about technology from Lexus and yet still is falls way short of "STATED" facts and figures.

Just where have these millions of pounds worth of improvement got the car from the 400h, in short NOWHERE.

Hi Guys,

Purely for interest, my IS250 SE MM is in for a service on Monday, and the GM at Croydon has organised use of the RX450h for me. I love the IS and this forum, which seems to be light years ahead of anything else I have looked at, in terms of the quality of the contributions etc.

I am not convinced I would buy one, but would be really interested in any comments you may have, and will of course report back.

Not sure I am clever enough to post this on another bit of the LOC but will try.

P.S.

Have exceeded my expectations and hope this appears on the correct forum. Not sure I'll have time to read all the threads so any one liners would be appreciated.

DJP

Sorry bud, if you think the IS250 is ahead of anything you aint looked around. Test drove the RX450h for a whole day, economy 31MPG not pushing it, general handling compaired to my X6 35D................................... poor.

HUD does not give enough information on the sceen, seats are not comfortable unless you pay for the top of the range model to get electric front extension ( could not tilt the seat back far enough without this add on) and I felt like I was falling off the seat most of the time!!!!

Drives ok in a straight line, and has a bit of go when required, but noisey when pushed up the rev range.

Sat-Nav, awful black boxed "current road your on" depicted right across where your car is on the screen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! whats that all about.

Overal a disapointment and way over priced.

Lastly servicing, who in this day and age needs a service every 10K???????. my X6 needs an OIL change only in 19K, yep nothing else, thats almost TWO years motoring for me, and @ £300+ per service from Lexus thats robery.

Been asked by lexus to test drive the RX450h tomorrow all day drive, should seal it's fate for me anyway, one way or the other. :winky:

The drive and handling of the X6 is nothing short of astounding, the X5 is not in the same ball park.

I actually thought the X6 would drive pretty much like an X5, the way you talk about it really makes me want to give one a go - especially how the looks are really starting to grow on me..........I still don't think it's good looking, but I love the presence it has on the road! :D

Give one a try you will like it

Not sure what it will do on a cruise as all my journeys were relatively short. Due another test drive in a week or so will update with some new figures. I had a look at X5/X6 and really liked them but couldn't fit them into my garage!! The RX is relatively compact.

Yes size is a problem if space is limited, I live out-of town so no probs, if I lived in say any large town I would NOT have this car.

I really would have liked the RX450h to do "What it says on the tin" but it just does not economy wise anyway.

The drive and handling of the X6 is nothing short of astounding, the X5 is not in the same ball park.

Took the 350 in for 40000 service today and the "swines" at Bracknell gave me a new 450h to tool about in.

First impressions is that it is a serious peice of kit. Quiet, economical (34.5mpg today), very comfy. Lots of nice new stuff like DAB radio, HDD music, USb slot etc. Also 3d satnav, keyless entry and chilled seats.

Bad points - only that it ias only 2 parking sensors on front - will need to get two more added for peace of mind and, that I'll have to buy one now!!

What "MODE" were you driving it in please, I bet it was economy.

You bet wrong!! :D

Just tooled around innormal mode - got around 30 mpg on shortish journeys driving normally. I then (still in normal mode) tried to drive according to the economy readouts and managed 34.5 mpg albeit this was a slower driving style than I would like.

Still poor though, my X6 35D gives 30 MPG around the local areas, and cruising at speed limits between 35/40MPG.

Took the 350 in for 40000 service today and the "swines" at Bracknell gave me a new 450h to tool about in.

First impressions is that it is a serious peice of kit. Quiet, economical (34.5mpg today), very comfy. Lots of nice new stuff like DAB radio, HDD music, USb slot etc. Also 3d satnav, keyless entry and chilled seats.

Bad points - only that it ias only 2 parking sensors on front - will need to get two more added for peace of mind and, that I'll have to buy one now!!

What "MODE" were you driving it in please, I bet it was economy.

I think you have hit the nail on the head: The Lexus Hybrids need to be consciously driven in a manner that we have to think about prioritising economy over other factors. You know that you just into your diesel BMW and you can pretty much forget about 'economical driving' as the engines are that damn good.

However, and this is the key for me, in the ever-so-long-term fossil fuels are in the decline. So having a Hybrid is essential to move on the issue of what next? And Lexus deserve great credit for being first to market with this concept. it is getting better, but the fact that you can only run this 'new' RX for a few miles/minutes on battery alone is not sufficient for it to be justified as a great leap over the previous version which did pretty much the same.

So, we effectively have a bigger, heavier but more cleverer hybrid that costs a lot more [than the 400h] but pretty much does the same sort of stuff [as the 400h]. Technology comes at a price and I will be the first to put my hand up and say that there is no way on this earth I could afford these cars new - but in the second hand car market I would be tempted (even by the 400h for which I have been a great detractor) because I could not afford a similar aged BMW X5 diesel (as good as it is) so would settle for the next best thing.

Great to hear your thoughts though!

Thanks; I would have loved the 450h to "Do what it said on the tin" I have read every review on this car and economy has been a let down along with handling ( which again is average to poor). why do they print these "Misleading" MPG figures?.

The dealership said and I quote "THe car is over engineered and after 50K miles should improve" :tsktsk: what B********KS

There is a new Diesel engine for the BMW coming later this year, 306BHP/600+NM and over 40MPG, well what do ya know.

I assume the car had very low mileage? Really needs 5,000 miles on the clock to get an idea of accurate mpg.

Yes very low miles BUT my X635D had NO miles and did better than that. I drove it again today in "Normal Mode" just driving normally and it returned 28MPG on a duel carrageway "A" road run!!!! performance was not great either, sorry not for me.

Had my "Short drive" of 1/2 hour today in the RX450h, It ws the SE-L model with all the extras on board.

Very adjustable comfortable rear and front seats, good sized boot and loads of interior space.

Quality and Info systems seem very good, ease of use was apparent and the car drives very quietly, although in "ECO MODE" lacks any performance at all, just very sluggish.

Driving up to 29/30MPH in EV mode on batteries alone for a couple of miles was great, after that the engine charged the batteries up quickly to recover lost power. sound system very good and simple mouse controls to use, once on the move though "Voice control" would be safer to use.

Side and rear veiw cammeras were great, as was adaptive cruise control.

Air suspension seems to control the car,but I was being carefull, next week I will get it for a few hours so will get a better feel.

The colour was Black with black leather, not for me but general looks were much better than the old model.

Economy: well after 18 miles under 62MPH I got 38MPG in ECO mode, thats pottering with NO PERFORMANCE at all. Is that good?, well I need to better that to change from the X6 35.

I will test it properly next week and see what it will do on duel carageways at motorway speeds, around town it should be good though.

One here from Lexus Leicester.

Yes heard from Norwich today, looked at a RX there some time ago so well done them but have since bought a GS 450h elsewhere so wont be buying again for some time !

Whats the economy coming out like Tony?, I am going to Norwich Lexus on friday week for the launch.

Just had a quick taster drive of the top of the range RX450H. What a car. Drives and handles far better than the 400H smoother and very much quieter, far more car like.

The heads up display is fantastic. Not only gives you a speed reading but when the sat nav is on you get distance and turn displays. All this appears to be low down at the end of the bonnet. Distracting at first but with only a couple of miles travelled learnt to ignore it unless wanted.

Will be getting a two day test drive in a couple of weeks time and will report further then. :D

Hi Westie, please confirm the economy figures are true or "False" as I have my doubts. If they are good I will buy one.

Buy a good BMW SUV with diesel engine, miles better economy and electric performance, can't loose.

Sorry mate, but that is an ill informed opinnion - diesel may not be the fuel of the future - but it has come a LONG way since the late early 80s.

May have come a long way, but not far enough. They are disgusting, the black rubbish that comes out of the back isn't some kind of perfume, it's c**p. The particulates and other nasties in diesel fumes are much worse than the CO2 that comes out of a petrol exhaust, but for some reason the whole world seems to be hung up on CO2.

My X635D produces NO black smoke at all and gives between 30/36MPG, it drives like a sports car also.

The RX450h must be about better economy because thats one of the main talking points.

Particulates from diesel engines are a thing of the past and they perform much better than the RX400h by a mile.

BMW seem to have some truly awsome diesel technology and I'm glad you find your X6 so good.

However,not all diesel cars/lorries/buses are as good as your X6 and as Parthiban says diesel exhaust fumes in most cases are vile,particulate laden and noxious smelling.

I for one prefer not to drive diesels.

However,I would not discount them altogether,especially in modern prestige guise.

Would you recommend the X6?Is it practical enough for occasional 4 occupants and occasional loading in the boot(most of the time it is just 2 or 3 of us in the car,but occasionally find I need to load up with daughter's uni stuff)?

My daughter is going back to Uni today fully loaded boot, carries 4 people with ease, boot space is large if you remove the stupid load cover.

The X6 is a bit of a marmite car really, some love it some hate it, I enjoy touring in it and it returns 35MPG touring, hard driving takes it down to 29MPG minimum and thats it's lowest to date.

Funny thing BMW have the highest rateing for technology in cars, I thought Lexus would be up there but there are not in the top 10.

See here; http://www.isuppli.com/NewsDetail.aspx?ID=20073

my 2P for all its worth. Driven a new RX450H and its a truelky awesome car. At the same time drove the x5 3.0d and ml 3.0d. Both good cars however on the trip we found the RX to be giving the best fuel out of all 3 in real life conditions. fuel economy figures in brochures are released by government and tested in an isolated environment.

Best I got from the X53.0D was 30MPG nursing it, so anythings better than that.

Sorry mate, but that is an ill informed opinnion - diesel may not be the fuel of the future - but it has come a LONG way since the late early 80s.

May have come a long way, but not far enough. They are disgusting, the black rubbish that comes out of the back isn't some kind of perfume, it's c**p. The particulates and other nasties in diesel fumes are much worse than the CO2 that comes out of a petrol exhaust, but for some reason the whole world seems to be hung up on CO2.

My X635D produces NO black smoke at all and gives between 30/36MPG, it drives like a sports car also.

The RX450h must be about better economy because thats one of the main talking points.

Particulates from diesel engines are a thing of the past and they perform much better than the RX400h by a mile.

Sorry mate, but that is an ill informed opinnion - diesel may not be the fuel of the future - but it has come a LONG way since the late early 80s.

May have come a long way, but not far enough. They are disgusting, the black rubbish that comes out of the back isn't some kind of perfume, it's c**p. The particulates and other nasties in diesel fumes are much worse than the CO2 that comes out of a petrol exhaust, but for some reason the whole world seems to be hung up on CO2.

My X635D produces NO black smoke at all and gives between 30/36MPG, it drives like a sports car also.

The RX450h must be about better economy because thats one of the main talking points.

Particulates from diesel engines are a thing of the past and they perform much better than the RX400h by a mile.

Hi All, after reading TWO driven reports on the RX450h, I am as they were disapointed with economy and performance, booth were poor!!

26MPG is very poor and 0-60 times slower than the 400h.

I don't understand just were all this money being spent on so called "IMPROVEMENTS" is failing to provide the goods.

Yes the car is 450 pounds UP but improved tech with drive train and engine ect should more than compensate for this!!!.

The 600h flopped in the US this could follow, ideas?.

Watch this;

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Media...ideoId=20268919

But surely that is 26MPG using US gallons.

I remember there being many negative reports when the RX400h was launched - I will wait until I have the 450h for a weekend test drive before I make up my mind. I'm also thankful the 600h is depreciating - I think its a great car and look forward to buying one if the 450h disappoints.

US Gallon calculation 26MPG * 1.2= UK Gallons, thats =31.2MPG, dealerships have assured me that the RX450h will do 44MPG :tsktsk: another load of cr*p.

The 600h was complete waste of energy this really looks more of the same, I have mates who have the RX400h and they get between 25/28MPG now thats WAY below Lexus's supposed MPG. Why not tell the truth you may say, "because they wont sell" thats why.

Long test drive recommended.

Hi All, after reading TWO driven reports on the RX450h, I am as they were disapointed with economy and performance, booth were poor!!

26MPG is very poor and 0-60 times slower than the 400h.

I don't understand just were all this money being spent on so called "IMPROVEMENTS" is failing to provide the goods.

Yes the car is 450 pounds UP but improved tech with drive train and engine ect should more than compensate for this!!!.

The 600h flopped in the US this could follow, ideas?.

Watch this;

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Media...ideoId=20268919