arkviz

What car should I buy in 2020, If I want smooth and quiet sedan?
Until now, IS was the only option. Since I have bad experience with turbo 4pots, it seems I have to go for some used car.

On my GS these vibrations are now relatively low, almost gone. I didn't installed any "update", just was just using my car. I feel vibrations when car's ICE kicks in now.

But also whole car is notably louder, so maybe it is only relative.

17 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Well that is right - they are not comparing it against Volvo S90 T8 plug-in hybrid, but rather cheapest possible option with 2.0L diesel.

What is surprising from whole review is that both cars they review and all the optional choices have diesel engines. I understand that 2.0L diesel is often cheapest version of the car and they just trying to make comparative review ~kind of like for like, but in current "political" climate this seems ignorant and misinformed.

Almost funniest quote from entire article is this -  "Use maximum throttle and it’s more audible, but not much noisier than a diesel rival.". That is what I was saying all along - 300h is "trashy" engine, in the way that obviously it is quieter than diesel whilst simply idling or cruising (wow what an achievement, this is like saying faster than 1 legged dog), but when step on the accelerator it really makes harsh and nasty rattle. I mean when petrol engine is "not much noisier than diesel"... that is pretty awful petrol engine.

Finally, I have said it before and will say it again - Lexus put themselves in stupid position comparing ES with 5-Series/E-Class... they are not there, it is wrong class, GS (being arguable much better car already failed there).. and now they introducing half class lower car for the same class - it is destined to fail. If they would have positioned themselves rather at small 4-door coupes class, that would have been a win! I can easily see the car coming on top or close second in comparison against MB CLA, BMW-Grand 4, WV Arteon... But not against BMW 5

100000% Agree

Yesterday I've driven new ES in top specs and these are my conclusions:

Seats are nicely stitched, but for my taste less comfortable. Car is bigger than GS, but i had less space behind a wheel in width. Some plastics inside car looks cheap. Wood decorative panels are plastic too. Ceiling upholstery is made of fabric. GS has nice white velvet. Comparing to my GS, it looks like materials are overall cheaper. Steering wheel was nice, but it has different layout, so i had problems using it ☺️ Infotainment had nicer graphics, but was totally not possible to use while driving. There was new front parking camera + panoramic top view. In the beginning i couldn't  recognize what I see on screen, because of strong fish eye camera distortion.

Engine at idle is slightly louder than GS (300h of course) and LESS REFINED than its older brother while driving. Slightly better it sounds at higher revs. Insulation is remarkably thinner than in the GS. Engine feels more powerful. It is probably thanks to help of electric motor, which is being used much more often than in GS. Moving centimeter by centimeter on parking lot is harder, as the pedals are somehow sharper. It is like driving 5km/h or 0.

Steering is harder, maybe there is less power steering. Car has relatively huge turning radius and. On the road it is typical FWD...

I was surprised there was Mark Levinson sign on center console. Sound system didn't performed so nice as my Pioneer in GS.

My final conclusion is quite negative. This car is step forward, however 2 steps downstairs. In terms "premiumness" I would rate it below both GS and IS.

On our market it is comparable to Skoda Superb, VW Passat, Arteon or Opel Insignia. 

I have this issue too, but my dealer can't do anything with that.

I have now on my GS300h almost permanent vibrations and droning while ICE is running:

I've seen some review videos of 2019 ES and I have mixed feelings of what I've saw. The car doesn't look bad from outside. Unfortunately it is the only positive I can see as a GS300h owner. 
There are some improvements in size of boot and rear leg room. For me this is not important, because 99% these parts of my car are empty. Taking look at instrument cluster, F-Sport  looks almost the same like IS F-Sport or RC F-Sport - nice. Basic cluster partially LCD screen and partially analog is something that belongs into non premium class. I prefer nice analog cluster, but this one looks very cheap and inappropriate. Moving sight right I see big screen, glossy not shaded. Part below this looks like old RX - not very nice. Further below begins problematic part of interior. If You want to connect Smartphone to USB, You have to keep "ashtray" open. Next problem is where to put Smartphone. You will have to lead cable around gear lever to the box in middle console. It is only aesthetic problem, but one cup holder is behind the same tray and another one is open. Look at 5:39

I like in GS big box under armrest with USB ports and enough place to keep phone arranged on its place. Nice is there is wireless charger. but apparently smaller box.
Under the bonnet is new but for me as user almost the same non powerful rattling 4 cylinder engine in the same layout like ordinary cars like Skoda, VW, Mondeo etc... In my car this engine is sometimes smooth, but sometimes unacceptably loud and shaky, like it is going apart it is about 50:50. I wouldn't purchase it once again. I  swithed from BMW 528i 4pot because it was too shaky, but after years this engine is even worst. Anytime i hit gas pedal i hear and feel rattling from center console, from dashboard, from passenger front seat, from left front door window molding... I will record it.
FWD vs RWD... My first snow experience with GS300h was great. FWD cars were stuck under the hill, but I was plowing snow uphills. I am unsure If this layout with heavy Battery pack in rear will be at least the same good on snow.
I can also compare costs almost equally equipped  GS300h and new ES300h:
My 2016 specs for 51800€ is almost identical to 2019 ES300h Prestige 55900€+ Metallic paint 1200€+ Premium Navigation 1500€ together for 58600€. I miss 18" wheels and wireless charger but I have power trunk lid.

This could NOT be an upgrade for me in future. I have my GS now for only 2,5 years.  

Problem is also, it didn't rattled since i reserved a visit at dealer.

22 minutes ago, Britprius said:

If the  noise bothers you a relatively cheap cure that will also help with engine longevity is a prelube system. This pressurizes the complete engine lubrication system before the engine is turned over for starting. I have fitted a system to my GS450H, and this has completely eliminated the rattle.

John. 

Hi John,

i believe it works, but i would like to avoid any mods at least until my car is under warranty. Let's wait for dealers conclusion.

I would say it was type 2 rattle. I thought my engine is going apart.

8 hours ago, Hangie said:

Your Civic 1.4i was very simple. In my family there is still Honda Legend from 2001 which is closing to the 500k km/300k miles. It is also very simple engine which just run.

Newer constructions are just much more complicated and things like that just happens.

The biggest conceptional difference between Honda D14A and Toyota 2AR-FSE is fuel injection. Toyota has beside indirect port additional DI. The next is valve train, Toyota has double, Honda had Single. Otherwise, both engines are Quite Simple. Turbocharged 8AR-FTS is far more Complicated. This was one of crucial factors for choosing Lexus, NA engine, Simple and reliable technology. But it looks I've missed something.

40k miles is a almost new car... I had 1995 Honda Civic 1.4i. I've sold it in 2004, because it was old and slow, 325000km on ODO...Since then I've purchased 5 new cars but only one was 100% problem free - 2007 BMW 325xi.

Running engine without oil can make a big damage to it. For me any irregular noise is suspicious. Do You have also this type of drone? It was filmed inside my car about year ago.

Maybe... I was searching across internet and have found video with similar symptoms:

https://youtu.be/21o6PcGFH7w?t=34s

Nobody has an idea? I am going to visit dealer within a week, but i don't hope it will solve anything.

Did someone experienced rattling sounds from engine at startup? I do occasionally. It is similar to rattling when You want to put manual transmission in gear without using clutch. It lasts 2-3 seconds and engine is running normal. I can't measure it, but after this "hard startup" engine runs noticeably smoother.  Problem is this happen not every time. It occurred few times last week. Before it didn't.

1 hour ago, Ala Larj said:

Thanks. Mine runs sweetly with no vibrations. 

I am really curious how sweetly does it run. My runs almost like diesel tractor.

Thank You Luigi, now i see i have nothing installed. in my car.

Where can I verify that?

Yes, I've read that topic. Dealer assured me my car has already everything solved, instaled dampers etc... Your post reminded me about one more thing.  When the car was new, it was very hard to recognize when the engine kicked in. Now it is kicking my *****. But not always.

10 minutes ago, Zotto said:

Arkviz ,Have you made the firmware update to engine as described in this forum?

No I didn't. Dealer said, there is everything up to date.

2 hours ago, noby76 said:

could the fact that its direct injected be the issue? i

I don't think it has anything to do with injection or Premium fuel. Beside DI there are also port injectors and if I am right, they are (indirect) operating when engine is not under heavy load. This is 99% of my driving. Engine itself if quiet and smooth if it is not engaged to driveshaft. For example first hundreds of meters after cold start, or idling in sport mode, it is very smooth. Almost the same as a 6 pot. But once in "gear" whole car shudders like espresso maker.It is more perceivable at low revs. Vibrations are often very irregular. Increasing revs to about 2000 and vibrations are gone. Above 3000 it begins to vibrate again. This sounds more like loos exhaust pipe. It doesn't bother me so much, because i almost do not use this rev range. After longer driving there is another type of vibration. Doesn't matter how many revs there are, whole drivetrain is vibrating like jackhammer. And then there is sometimes a bluster sound. Especially when revs suddenly drop to 1000 on a highway.

I am not a skilled constructor, but i have some points which can cause these problems.
1, Big engine, long stroke - physically must produce more vibration than same cylinder design of a half displacement.
2, heavy car, more load on engine - more vibrations
3, need for low emissions - too low revs - more vibrations. Older automatics didn't allow to go under 1300rpm.
4, need for elasticity - lighter flywheel - more vibrations
5, Atkinson cycle - May be? I think it rather reduces vibrations a little.
6, inline 4 cylinder configuration is the worst for vibrations. You can find many articles about that.
7, vibration dampers lost their capability. New car did almost not vibrate.
8, vibrations making all car parts worn. I Have problem with rattling or droning plastics around seat heating controls. The same and even worse can happen to important mechanical parts.

This evening on my way home, car was surprisingly smooth. Not the best, but better than yesterday.

We do have such laws, but their application in real life means no success. On the first page of manual, where warranty is described, there is an article about exclusion of increased engine vibrations and noises from warranty, as their are normal. Dealer says it is normal, so i have no other option, just drive it until it is totally worn and then change it. I don't know what is situation in Your country, but here in a land of noisy German 4 pot diesels, this is not seen as a problem by 99% of population. For me it is bad because i was driving only silent and very silent petrol cars since i got driving license in spring of 1997. 

6 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

GS450H of some years old or RX ?

or something else completely outside Lexus?

I don't know for now. I can not change car before 2019. What I surely know, i will NEVER buy an expensive 4 cylinder car anymore.

The best option for me would be to sell that car and purchase something older, cheaper, with serious engine...