Northern Boys Luv Gravy

My only fault with Lexus is the bloody wheelbarrow wheel I have for a spare. The car Cost Euro52,000 with all leather and sunroof...not cheap...the wheel is rubbish in a car this expensive...

Bearing in mind the tyres are directional and staggered front to back, which wheel would you like? Whichever wheel you choose it would only have a 1 in 4 chance of being the right one for the situation. The spacesaver fits all 4 corners of the car and frees up vital extra space. However, I agree with much of what you say. When I went to look at the IS in the showroom I looked in the boot, decided it was fit for my purpose in terms of volume and that was it. If I can't get the kitchen sink in it now I have no one to blame but myself.

With the mileage you do it's a no-brainer - get the IS250 Auto. You'll get a minimum of 29mpg, rising to 35 on a run.

PS - NBLG - how do you know Jamboo is a "He"

Is there something you're not telling your wife and us??

Just my 2p worth; I don't think it's fair to have a pop at Jamboo - all he's ever done is report the good and bad regarding his car and work with his dealer to resolve any issues. Incidentally, I still find Lexus dealer to be the best in the business. Any dealership of any marque will charge an arm and a leg for things like towbars and car kits - it's the way of the world and why no-one in their right mind gets these things fitted there.

I also think that perhaps the fuel economy of the IS250 Auto against the 220d is being inflated a bit as well. I've had 2 and they have consistently averaged only 29mpg - rising to 35mpg on a long motorway run. A 220d will average 38mpg - more on a long run, so it is more than 30% more economical. After being given a 220d for the day i found it more relaxing and refined than the equivalent A4 with only 1st gear being a bit problematic - then again it will happily pull away in 2nd so that is surmountable. I've also got 3 colleagues with 220ds and they love them - in fact 2 are putting in orders for new ones when their contracts run out, so it's clear that not everyone is dissatisfied by any means.

I've got a new ipod Classic and a 2nd gen nano and neither have volume limiters - though you can go into settings and activate this feature if you want.

Cheers - that was my first impression just peeering into one at the showroom on the launch. It looks too A6 inside and maybe a missed opportunity, in fact it's only 20odd cm shorter!It is just so much bigger inside than the IS, that is what makes it tempting. The boot was huge! It was a tad disappointing!

I was offered an A6 2.0TFSi SE Multi, DVD, PDC, Bluetooth etc etc for £000's less than an equivalently spec'd new A4 - so I think Audi are going to have 2 cars within punching range in the market space from within their own parentage! That'll be interesting!

PS - the MPG thing is a strange one - my colleague gets a consistent 42-46mpg (actual) no matter where/how he drives his 2.0TDi 170...the air must be thinner where you are up norf

I think you're right about the A6, at the moment I think a nearly new one of those is a better bet than a new A4 - although I think the A6 is due a slight refresh. Maybe our A3 will improve with a few miles - either that or I'll get 'er indoors to lighten up on her heavy right clog.

NBLG - you or Missus NBLG driven one yet???

She is due one soon as her last A4 has just gone back - however they are (obviously) concentrating on new sales to customers rather than employees at the moment. We've got a rather nice black metallic A3 Sportback S-line quattro with the new 2.0Tdi engine at the moment and I'm quite enjoying the way the quattro system handles and prevents the torque steer that was a bit of a bugbear with the powerful FWD models. I think we will get a an A3 cabriolet next before getting another A4.

I've had a look at the new A4 in the showroom and tbh I'm not blown away - it is very similar to the old one. All the nice gizmos come as extras and when you start speccing one up the price becomes frankly eyewatering. They would do me a very good deal as they have done in the past if I wanted one but it's still more than I'd want to pay. A number of shorter people have complained about the offset pedals too and I can kinda see where they are coming from, something has gone a bit wrong in the converson to RHD. The interior is very much like the A6 so it's familiar, well built but slightly disappointing in lacking that newness feel.

The new 170bhp 2.0Tdi engine is an improvement over the older 140bhp model though - more refined (though not as much as the Lexus) and more linear in its power delivery, it doesn't feel that much faster though. Nicer gearchange than the Lexus from what I can remember. Fuel economy is a puzzler though, we've been doing some trips in the A3 up and down to the in-laws and I cannot get above 38 - 39mpg even driving carefully (allegedly it should do 53mpg). I don't know whether it's the newness or the quattro system adding drag but I think a few new A4 owner may be surprised in the drop in economy from their previous models.

I have to confess I'm a bit disappointed in the new A4 overall - we've had some great ones in the past, S-lines, turbo petrols, estates, fully specced up etc and I had thought that possibly in a couple of years I'd look at a new diesel model with auto transmission, but now I'm thinking if I'm not getting excited by it now, how ambivalent will I be in a couple of years when every other rep is running around in them? I think Audi have got to look at their pricing, and maybe they will once the launch fever is over, - especially as BMW are doing some very good deals on their Edition spec models.

Right chaps it looks as if we've finally made it and all those BMWs are going to have to give up the fast lane; the Government is proposing we have our own lane on the motorways:

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/36989/...n-the-fast-lane

No BMW Boulevards, Mercedes Motorways, Jaguar........er...can't think of an illiteration for Jag, but you know what I mean.

About time too.

BTW - Ruth Kelly - how many pints before you'd shag that??

20k service Bristol

2 semi synthetic engine oil 81.59

11 75w90 synthetic gear 13.56

12 mobile 0w 40 protectio 10.21

total inc vat = 385.76 plus front discs and pads

whats the 3 items u got there? thought the ow40 Mobil was the engine oil? and whats the synthetic gear?

80 quid (+vat no doubt) for a bit of oil *****, have they got their own North sea rig to run or something :shutit:

I never use whatever the dealer wants. Always supply oil for them to use so as to avoid that fleecing.

Just been to the shop and bought the oil for my next service - 4.5 litre's @ £17.49

And if you want a top up the 1 litre pot is £5.99

is that for the engine oil? dont know whether to bother doing it or just using what dealer gives. need to find out what viscosity the oil they used for my 10k service.

Yes its my own fault ,I was so pis-ed off with having to pay for front discs and pads I did not question ever item on the service bill- I think its either top up for transmission auto box or diff and the other is some kind of additive for the oil hmmm

I wonder if this is as per lexus Schedule for 20k service or somthing stealerships make up .

It looks like they think if you can afford a Lexus you pay with out question ?????

cheers

swager

It's for the diff - at 20k they drain and refill it.

Update on my 10k service at Lexus Teesside:

Just had my 10k service done at Teesside and I really can't fault them - £170.56 all in, inc. wash and vac. New dealership only a year old and they took the car in and did the service immediately while I waited. Newcastle quoted me £240 so I had a look to see where the difference in price comes in.

It turns out the labour rate at Teesside is £65.75 per hour, whereas Newcastle is £112.50!. So there's £46.75 of the difference straight off. Newcastle also include a couple of things that aren't necessarily on the Lexus service schedule; they include an oil top up bottle (£8.79) and do a flush and fuel treatment (£26.32) whereas Teesside just do a fuel injection clean. Funnily enough Teesside are more expensive on oil by a tenner.

The service advisor commented that he'd had quite a few owners from the Newcastle area coming down to Teesside - with the difference in labour rates I'm not surprised.

I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with semi-synthetic oil being used for servicing of these cars. It should only be genuine fully synthetic oil only. High performance engines are engineered to a high level of precision - they have certain characteristics that require the use of only the highest quality engine oils - semi-synthetic oils by their very nature cannot be suitable for such uses.

Surely no-one here would be 'happy' to chuck in 15W40 mineral oil into their engine?

Extended drain intervals aside or even condition based servicing that can prolong a service to circa 18 months between intervals, the use of fully synthetic oils should be an exclusivity for these types of engines. You can't see BMW, MB, Audi even advocating the us of such oils, then why do Lexus? To save money on service costs? Then cost savings should be sought elsewhere and not in the life-blood of a car's engine.

I can't agree. When you are talking about service intervals of only 10k in a normal passenger car you can put mineral, semi-synthetic, full synthetic in and as long as the viscosity grade is correct and the right formulation of detergents are used it will not make one iota of difference regarding engine wear etc.

Anyway the IS doesn't have high performance engines.

I love this thread...all I will say is that Lexus are very good, it appears to be the diesel model with all of it's issues that causes most debate.

Buy a 250 Auto and it's a proper Lexus...

Buy the 220d and it's not...as Tango said once, it's probably the car that Lexus should not have made...

Do I regret buying the IS220d? Yes - but not because I should have got a German car, but because I think I should have got the 250 Auto SE with MM - it is fantastic. And as many of you will know, I am not loyal to any brand. I only buy what is sound...I could have lived with all the rattles on a 250 (as I am doing now in the 220).

The American debate is an interesting one. In the USA, AUDI's, BMW and Mercs are all too expensive compared with Lexus. That's what I seem to recall when I looked at comparable prices 12 months ago. Lexus are just so cheap especially when you consider they are "loaded" to the gunnels, and remember - they don't have the diesel to complain about....and also US cars are so Vauxhall it's scary. We had a Sebring 2.2 Auto in the states and what a car. It was big, thirsty, but totally dead at the helm. And the bouncy ride...!

Lexus' are cheaper in the US, but then again so are BMWs and Mercedes. Check out the prices for fully loaded BMW 3 series with 3 litre engines, auto, four wheel drive and full leather, or even M3s. We pay a massive premium for the privilege of driving German cars when 320ds and A4 2.0Tdis have really become nothing more than fleet cars, replacing the Mondeo and Vectra.

I totally agree with most of that. This is based on my experience with Lexus compared with other marques and is not intended to disparage Toyota owners. When I read the dealership reviews the common link I find is the franchise holder. No matter how good the car, if the dealership are woeful then that's the impression you're going to keep. Lexus are at the forefront of technology, but I don't want a Japanese gizmo. I want a quality car that is well put together with everything working as it should crafted from the best materiels. I want a car that gives a better than average performance too backed up by polite, respectful dealerships. It's the last bit that lets Lexus down and some of the switchgear.

I disagree with the American issue though. The majority of American cars are awful in terms of build quality, materiels and trim layout as the Pontiac Grand Prix I ran in the USA for a while will testify. Lexus would easily outshine anything America could offer, but then so would Skoda. The JD Power survey has been based on previous models and the early IS '05/06 IS range. My gut feeling is that Lexus are not going to fare so well in the latest evaluation from what customers are saying. The fact they sell so few cars in the UK may just be their saving grace.

Yeah but in the US they are not just competing with Pontiac are they? BMW, Mercedes, Audi and Cadillac all had a head start on Lexus and heavy marketing spend, yet Lexus still outstripped them within 6 years of launch. Perception is everything and in the US German cars are seen as nice cars to drive but unreliable with dodgy electrics and expensive to fix (actually in Germany the are seen in a somewhat similar light as well).

I've owned and driven Audis, Volvos, Mercedes etc but if I had to pick one who I felt would run reliably to 200,000 miles I'd pick the Lexus above them all - mechanically it has that Swiss watch feel. If you look at every Lexus model since the original LS400 can you pick out anyone that has been unreliable? Look at secondhand guides - do any of them warn you about buying any particular Lexus model due to reliability? I'll save you the bother - they don't. No other manufacturer can make that claim, Mercedes E classes have been a disaster for that company, BMW diesels keep lunching their turbos or requiring whole engines replaced due to cylinder liner problems, Audis with their coil pack troubles, Volvos with gearboxes etc etc

Can't understand the quality issues with Volvo as here in the UK and in my long history they are well built and reliable. Maybe we have the reverse of your situation with Volvo and Lexus? My impression of Lexus is they are run by a bunch of Toyota staff who were suddenly told they now work for Lexus. Same mindset that they are only selling budget family cars to the working class who don't know any different and can be fobbed off with excuses. Some of that working class customer base have brains and standards and expect better when they hand over large sums of money. I don't care if someone has paid £5k or £80k for their car. They're the customer and should be treated with a bit of respect, not rolling eyes because they've dared to highlight yet another fault with the car. Lexus GB really should do an owner survey to get the full picture of how their dealerships are performing or I don't see them selling anymore than the 15,000 cars they sell each year in the UK. It'd be a shame because the cars aren't bad, (they're not as good as most of the opposition in my opinion), it's just the service and customer relations that let it down.

I know you've had a bad experience with Lexus Leicester but I can't agree with any of the above. Toyota staff suddenly selling Lexus?? Lexus has been in the UK since 1990 - most of the dealership staff are either Lexus recruited or have come from other premium marques. Lexus cars are built on dedicated production lines by the best employees Toyota employ, they build cars to quality standards far in excess of Toyota's own high standards, using components that have to meet even higher quality standards.

Year after year, Lexus top all independent surveys of customer satisfaction and reliability - of course there will be some problems but you don't get that recognition from rolling your eyes and upseting customers. Lexus set the benchmarks for customer care that all other marques aspire to - Audi in particular, though privately they acknowledge they have a long way to go to match it. Year after year Lexus are also the top selling luxury marque in the US and those people really do know how to complain if things are not right!

Many of the things we take for granted when buying upper end cars were pioneered by Lexus, for example the layout of dealerships and the facilities within. Lexus also introduced no quibble exchange periods on secondhand cars and were the first to offer the same level of service to used car buyers that new buyers expect. As I said before I understand that you feel disappointed by your experience so far (although I don't know the whole story) but every day other people are disappointed by their BMW, Mercedes etc experience - it doesn't make them bad cars, or all their dealerships shoddy.

I know this has been covered before but.

Shopping around for a decent price for the 20k service on my 18 month old

IS250 SEL Auto i found some wildly varying prices.

My local dealer Newcastle £416.00

Teesside £253.00

Carlisle £290 inc vat

All include all parts and labour so why the vast difference at the Newcastle dealer

is it because they know i'm local and would prefer not to travel elsewhere

or are they just more expensive. They are obviously also owned by different companies.

I may be labouring under the misapprehension that all dealers applied the

same or similar charges for the same services, is this correct or not ?

A call to the service manager may be required or Hello Teesside.

Infinity.....

Strange one this - I've rang to get my 250 Sport petrol 20,000 service and Carlisle come out at £333 and Teesside comes in at £318 (all inc. Vat) - rang Newcastle who have said they are more than happy to match the Teesside price.

I cancelled my 10k service with Newcastle (they wanted £240) because I had got a cheaper quote from Teesside (£170). When they asked me why I was cancelling it I told them I had got a cheaper price elsewhere - they then offered to price match, but I refused - it wasn't fair on Teesside.

In my book you quote your best price first time to loyal customers who've bought from you, we shouldn't have to shop around and find only then will you drop your price . I like the people at Lexus Newcastle but at the end of the day £70 is £70. When it comes to the 20k service I'll give them another chance to quote but they better sharpen their pencils.

"CONNOLLY HIDE FOOD"

TG

Marvellous stuff - I know an old guy who uses it instead of suntan lotion on holiday.

I have a mate who runs a large company fleet of user choosers. They monitor the fuel consumption of the cars on the fleet. Interestingly, the IS220d, the Audi A4 2.0tdi and the Mercedes 220d all run out at averages of between 38 and 39 mpg, with the BMW 320d turning in an average of 42mpg. These are real world figures over a long time so it seems the IS220d may not be far off the pace economywise after all.

It's madness to think of trading any car after only 2 or 6 months. You've taken the biggest hit of depreciation when you drove it out of the showroom and paid virtually nothing off it - of course you will take a financial hit. The Audi R8 is probably the only car you can get away with doing this at the moment. Dealers make their maximum profits off people who trade their cars in within the first year - it keeps them in exotic holidays.

A lexus dealer may not offer you much more - I once queried my 06 IS250 sport with MM and excellent condition against a GS450 (same year) and what put me off was a similar trade in figure....

Lexus dealers, and other luxury dealers, always offer below trade-in book price.

Don't know about that - I had very good trade in prices for my TT and 05 IS250 from my local dealer. I'm amazed you couldn't get a good trade in figure against a GS450, but then again buy one a year old and let some other mug take the hit of depreciation on a large V8 petrol engined car. When fuel hits £1.50 a litre they'll be paying you to take it off their hands.

Only deaf people can compare passat tdi with IS220d.

I agree. I was a massive fan of the Audi 1.9Tdi engine and raved about mine to all who would listen. I get in one now and I'm staggered by the lack of power, the noise and vibration, etc. It just shows how we have moved on.

I know Lexus have publicly stated that they aim to have a hybrid option for every model in their range by 2009 - how this squares with boot capacity in the IS I'm not sure - maybe they will look at more compact Battery technology. I was expecting the hybrid option to available in the next generation IS but since that is probably 2011ish maybe they feel they can't afford to wait that long?

I can't imagine that there is a completely new diesel engine in the pipeline - technologically the D4D engine is at least the match for the engines from BMW and Audi - where it seems to fall down is in fuel economy and CO2 output in relation to BIK company car taxation. I reckon they could quite easily tweak the engine to put out less CO2, say 20g/km or so, thus dropping it down the tax bands. Re-working the gear ratios could also produce benefits in fuel economy, maybe not to BMW levels but certainly to match the latest Audi diesel engines that seem to be sacrificing economy for power. Maybe they need to look at bringing out an IS200d with say 140-150bhp and delivering 42-44mpg - it may be what a lot of people are looking for.

Apparently Honda are doing a new deal where they offer vouchers for free chiropractor visits with each Type R sold. They forgot to put suspension on them things.

Tne other issue is that I go into London a lot and with the new laws coming into effect in October the work in not going to like £25 per day that I go in.

Only if you drive an IS250 manual - the auto version puts out less CO2 and only costs £8 a day. :)

Normally, when you get things like doors and boot lids not shutting properly it is down to the hinges needing tweaking. There is no way, all things being equal, that the boot lid should scrape the bumper - it just needs someone to adjust the hinges properly. I had the back end of my IS rebuilt after a rear ender and the boot shuts properly, doesn't scrape or leak.

I'm puzzled by the valve stem thing, I had 3 alloys replaced on my last IS and they all came with chrome valve stems - I'm sure they are just a tube that slips over the black valve stem, so they should swop over ok.

Hey, thanks for the reply guys.

Will probably take your advice and just gradually improve what i have.

Recommend any good holiday destinations? I really could do with one !!

thanks again

Greek islands. :) I'll be the one wearing the Lexus thong!