scythe

Though I always enjoy reading this forum, I don't often post on here, mainly because I don't really have very much to say. There are posters here with a vast knowledge about these cars that I simply don't have, plus there is a natural and gentle pressure against those with cars that aren't Mk4 LS400s. I've had a Mk3, a couple of 430s and now am more than happy with my current 460, which I've had for 5 years, and will probably have for another 5 years on. Also, and this may just be a bit of paranoia, when I have made posts it very often just brings the thread to an end. No one else replies, and the thread dies! However, as I said, I do like reading what is here.

Last night, however, there was a post put on by a Lexus sales executive, basically just putting a few pictures of one of the new LS460s in his showroom. I'd got no problems with this, and I know that people on here love pictures, so I had absolutely no objection to him or his post. However, because he works within the Lexus network, and may have some influence on those above him, I decided to take the time to make a full comment:

Hi Tim,

Please don't think I'm having a go at you. It's not my intention to do that; I do think it's very up-front of you to come on here to try to sell cars, and I do admire that. My problems are with the new
LS. Normally I'd let something like this go, but you work as part of the Lexus chain, and maybe there is some chance that people will listen to you.

First thing is the looks. Some people do buy a LS to look the part, and they do indeed buy the gold ones that stand out, much like the one you've got there. Maybe they will appreciate the look of the front. There are however many other people who buy dark colours (not black - that stands out almost as much as gold) such as blue and green, and maybe a subdued red. These are people who buy a lexus for themselves, and not as a thing for other people to look at. I suspect most people like that don't want a car with a grotesque front.

Second is the equipment level. What has become of the precrash at the front, that prepares you in advance for an accident? The precrash at the rear, that protects you against whiplash? Does the car still have adaptive cruise, or has the radar at the front that was part of the precrash also gone? What about the double-action lane keep, and the infra red cameras that were part of the precrash? The car is specified no better than a basic LS460. There is no equivalent LS460 SE-L, which was by far your best seller back five or so years ago.

Third, following on from the second, is the price. For it's basic specification, with, what is now also old technology, the car is considerably overpriced.

I'm sure you understand the demographics of Lexus buyers - I don't, partly because they are so few and far between. The ones I've met have been knowledgeable and thoughtful, and not easily persuaded to
part with their money.

It appears to me that Lexus is trying to kill this car in the UK. Lexus could accept that not everyone wants a hybrid, especially one that doesn't really seem to save money, and that people do want a fully specified petrol engine car. It could also cut the price and vastly increase turnover. But it seems to me as though this car is priced so as not to sell, and to enable Lexus to eventually withdraw it and perhaps Lexus itself from Europe.

I think it would be a terrible shame if this happened, especially for many loyal Lexus owners.

I know you've got to shift this car, and I wish you well with that. I hope though that when you have internal meetings with Lexus, that you'll remember some of what I've said here, and pass upwards some of my feelings.

: o )

This morning I looked to see what comments people had made, but found that the whole thread has disappeared. I searched to see if it was somewhere else, but it isn't. The whole thread has gone.

I seem to have ended this particular thread with a bang. Are my views too extreme? I've seen cars for sale removed, but whoever does the removing usually retains the rest of the thread, explaining that the person should be a gold member. Have I been censored? And if so, by whom?

Hi Luke,

Having paid for an AA inspection, have you talked to them about it? Did they not pick it up when they checked the car?

Just a thought!

Hi Adam,

They will let you test drive their cars - they've always been very good at that sort of thing. However, I think you'll find that Lexus Ipswich just don't have two 460s on their site.

Have a look at the national Lexus site, at all of their 460s. They have about six of the new demonstrators at about £70k, a repo at about the same price, and six further 460s spread around the country. Lexus Ipswich is listing those two cars probably because they are owned within a dealership group. They just aren't physically there. But talk to them, and they should be able to get you at least one to look at and drive.

Personally, I'd go to where the car was for sale. That makes it easier for you to say "no, I don't want this one, I want another", and start to walk away!

: o )

Hi Adam,

To answer your initial question, there isn't much to watch out for. Obviously, you'll avoid dodgy motors.

My main advice to you would be to make sure its an SE-L you get. The toys and the safety stuff do make a difference, and will certainly make it easier to resell when the time comes.. Make sure you get all the keys, including the keycard. The keycard is standard issue for an SE-L, and I believe that Lexus charges about £600 for a replacement.

If you've got a SE-L the only other possible option is the heated steering wheel. I prefer this, as it has some texture, and to be honest, on a cold morning it's the first part of the car that warms up, and is therefore very welcome!

Enjoy!

For my part, I just think that "serpentine" is a fantastic word to describe the belt!

Not sure the LS460SEL is in de same price league as the LS430 of the topic here

The price might not be the same, but the value is.

All part of the same spectrum, anyway!

Well, a think a few Becks could well be the way to go on a Friday night!

This is a brochure for the LS, rather than just the 460, and the 'premier' grade is the LS600, I think. Have a look at the price list, and see what you think.

The basic version used to cost £56k, the SEL £71.2k, and the SE somewhere inbetween. Now the basic is £72k. To get all the kit you've got to have a hybrid with a long wheelbase that costs over £100k. I don't like any of those three things in the list!

Ive got the same car as you, same age, and I love it. I got it cheaply, when it was a year old at 4000 miles when everything started going wrong for big cars in 2008, and I'll be keeping it for several more years. I'm just sad that when the time comes to replace it there won't be anything there, possibly not even Lexus at all.

... though I notice that precrash is missing from the specs of the new, overpriced LS460 cars!

They have the 'Advanced' precrash

http://www.lexus.co....mpact-avoidance

Well, perhaps if you have ten minutes you could click on the 'request brochure' button. They will email you a brochure, price list and accessory list almost straight away. That tells, in its wishy washy way, a somewhat different story - that this stuff is only available on the LS600.

I think they're just trying to dump Lexus in the UK. To me, its what they seem to be doing with this car - making it more expensive and less well equipped. When they started with the LS460 they sold far more SELs than basic and SE cars. People wanted this stuff in their new car. The only way to get it seems to be to buy one of their 600s.

It makes me sad.

... though I notice that precrash is missing from the specs of the new, overpriced LS460 cars!

On my 460 I've had the precrash for both the front and the rear go off, each on two separate occasions, though none of them were in conditions that resulted in an accident.

The rear precrash simply brings the head restraint up to touch the back of your head. The first time it happened, I felt it touching me, and thought to myself "oh no, the head restraint has worked it's way loose, I hope I've got a screwdriver in the boot to tighten it up" I turned round to look, and saw the passenger one returning to it's normal position, and it was only then that I realised what had almost happened. The second time it happened I was at the back of a queue; I knew to push my head back into the head restraint that had come up to the back of my head, ready for a collision, and looked in my rear view mirror to see a 4x4 just managing to stop in time. That was a bit worrying.

I believe the front precrash has some different responses available to it, including starting to brake the car. My two instances were both at roundabouts. Both times I was driving fairly smartly up to the roundabouts, and both times I changed my mind about going straight in, and braked moderately firmly, to let a car joining the roundabout from my right go first. In both situations I was comfortably able to stop. However, the car decided otherwise.

My car must have spotted the other car with its cameras, and the fact that I was braking, and decided to join in a bit.

The first thing that happens is that you hear the doors unlock. At the same time as this, the seat belts in the front tension themselves, drawing themselves back in. For ten seconds or so they hold you so tightly that you can't breathe. The moderately firm braking is suddenly magnified, as the brake assist comes in. Other things happen too, such as the suspension tightens, and the electric steering sets itself to give maximum response, though I noticed neither of these.

For me and my passenger, this was all a bit of a surprise for me, but the second time it happened to me, when I knew what was happening, and why, I found it very reassuring indeed.

If the question is, in a car that costs £70kish when new, is it worth an extra £4k (if that is the cost) for this, then I'd be prepared to say yes, open eyes or not.

Incidentally, the front radar (which wouldn't have been involved in the situations above, but which is part of the precrash system) is required anyway for the adaptive cruise control, which I think is very well worth having.

: o )

Parking sensors weren't fitted to any 430s until 2002

: o )

Hi Harry,

Sorry I wasn't more explicit. What I was trying to say was this car didn't have the full spec, so wasn't worth as much as the much more common SE-Ls.

For the basic model:

Optional Upholstery Upgrade package*

Optional Advanced Safety package*

Optional 19” 5-spoke alloy wheels

(245/45R19 tyres)

Optional IPA (Intelligent Park Assist)

Optional Power boot closer

Optional electric sunroof

Optional Mark Levinson

® audio package

(19 speakers; DVD; 5.1 surround sound)

Optional Rear Seat Entertainment **

(9” roof-mounted VGA screen with

remote control)

Optional PCS (Pre-Crash Safety)/

ACC (Adaptive Cruise Control

For the SE:

Rear Seat Upgrade package

Electric sunroof

Power boot closer

Mark Levinson

® audio package

(19 speakers; DVD; 5.1 surround sound)

Rear Seat Entertainment

Optional Upholstery Upgrade package

Optional Advanced Safety package

Optional 19” 5-spoke alloy wheels

(245/45R19 tyres)

Optional IPA (Intelligent Park Assist)

Optional PCS (Pre-Crash Safety)/

ACC (Adaptive Cruise Control)

Optional heated wood trim steering wheel

for the SE-L

As LS 460 SE, plus:

Upholstery Upgrade package

Advanced Safety package

19” 5-spoke alloy wheels

(245/45R19 tyres)

IPA (Intelligent Park Assist)

Card Key

Optional heated wood trim steering wheel

those packs:

Advanced Safety package

(must be ordered with electric sunroof

and Rear Seat Upgrade package)

PCS (Pre-Crash Safety) with

ACC (Adaptive Cruise Control)

Advanced Obstacle Detection System

(radar and stereo camera)

Rear PCS (Pre-Crash Safety) including

Intelligent Front Head Restraints

Driver Monitoring System

Emergency Steering Assist

LKA (Lane-Keeping Assist)

Lane Departure Warning System

Upholstery Upgrade package

(must be ordered with electric sunroof

and Rear Seat Upgrade package)

Semi-aniline leather and trim details

Alcantra

® roof headlining and pillar finishing

Rear Seat Upgrade package

Cool box

Power rear seat slide/recline

Power rear head restraints with memory

function

Air-conditioned rear seats

4-zone air-conditioning with rear seat

separate left/right climate control and

roof-mounted diffusers

Rear audio controls

Electric sunshade for rear doors

Rear side airbags

Wood Console package

I hope this helps.

: o )

oh, and to finally answer your question, there's nothing wrong with 2007 cars. Many cars sold in 2008 and 2009 had been built in 2007 - it was the really bad time for car manufacturers, when everyone thought the world was going to become austere and end.

If you're worried, get one from a lexus dealer. The car will come with a year's full Lexus style warranty.

Hi Harry,

First thing to look at is the alloys. How many spokes do they have? On a 460, five is almost certainly good, but more perhaps not so - depending on what you want in your car.

There are three grades of 460, the basic 460, the 460 SE and the 460 SE-L. The SE-L came with five spokes as standard. The 460 and SE had more. There is only one optional extra on the SE-L, which is the wooden/leather steering wheel, which is rather nice as it has more texture and feel to it, and is also heated!

If this is the car at Taggarts you're looking at, "A MASSIVE SPEC WITH EVERY CONCEIVABLE EXTRA", well, lets just say that its wheels have too many spokes!

: o )

Hi abdallian,

Is this failure is due to an incident in the snow - some sort of soft collision? Because if so, isn't it your insurance company that you should be turning to? The alternative is that it's straightforward component failure, but it doesn't sound like that from what you've said.

Good luck with it - and do let us know how it all turns out.

: o )

Hiya Chris,

The difference is that one is marked RF, which means run flat, and is a tyre that has a poorer fuel efficiency presumably because the walls are so rigid.

If you want this particular tyre, there is no choice for you really as you should only use runflats when your wheels monitor the pressure in the tyre, and 'bong' you when the pressure in one goes down so you know you've got to drive below the maximum 'flat' speed. You therefore get the better performance and the cheaper tyre!

To answer your question, I do think that there is one thing missing from the ratings, and that's a wear rating, to indicate how many miles each tyre will cover. Good grip comes about mainly through using softer rubber, which increases fuel consumption and reduces tyre life. In the US, tyres are marked with a wear rating.

: o )

PS the Dunlop SP Sport Maxx RT looks a bit better?

Cool!

For all the nonsense you read about Lexus Dealers being the best, they do sometimes get a bit confused about things. When they sell you a used Lexus, the warranty they supply (see their website for this) should be at least equivalent to a manufacturer warranty in its depth of cover. If they've given you a different warranty..... well.....

The missing bits of fastereners, I suspect is a sale of goods thing. And the rust .... well.... if they'e sold you a rusty car, I don't see how they can get away with it.

I'd write a letter to their dealer principal, sending it recorded, listing your problems, and wait for a response. Then give Lexus GB a ring, and tell them why you're disappointed. Lexus as a brand only has one thing, and that's our trust.

all that battery junk is ballast and a large waste of fuel

hahahahahahahahahaha!

That's engineering speak, then is it?

I tend to agree, by the way.

I'm surprised that they've said no to both the rust and the tyre valve. The missing clips for the covers and the undertray, well, it's probably them when they serviced it, but I can see why missing bits wouldn't be covered by the warranty - shame its so hard to pin their missingness on anyone. I'm presuming that the warranty is a proper lexus one?

But rust though - that's not a problem I've had with lexuses before....

: o (

Hiya. At night, my 460 has five lit up buttons - the four windows, plus the 'lock' section of the rocker. The unlock is not lit, nor is the button for preventing the other windows being opened. On the passenger side, there is one lit up window button, plus, also the passenger "lock/unlock all doors" rocker has the lock section only lit.

When the car is in park, the handle itself is lit, so you can find and operate it readiy.

I don't want to be prescriptive here, but I'm a firm believer in learning where all the buttons are without looking, whether they are lit up or not, and do train myself when I get a new car.

The other thing is, all the door handles light when you are in park, so anyone can see their handle, unlock it manually if they wish, and open the door. Oh, and, the passenger door has that rocker switch too.

It's all to do with training. : o )

Hiya. I'm not sure about the LS400, but I had a minor problem with the gps on my 2002 430. I presume it's similar.

If so, you're right in thinking there is a device under the cover under the front windscreen - its more than just an antenna, it's a complete gps unit that sends time and position details back to the unit in the boot, which then does all the processing. It does sound as though this isnt doing its job properly.

The first thing I think I'd do is to check the fusebox. There is a backup memory of the car's position, and it sounds as though it might be losing this. When you start the car, it should remember where it is, and be ready to go straight away. If it's not that, then I would suggest that you do disconnect the Battery for ten minutes. Be aware that you'll need a code for the radio to use it again. Your dealer may be able to tell you what it is, or it may be in the service history booklet, carefully concealed on the inside cover with the word RADIO next to it <g>. This is what sorted my unit out - it had become confused, and stopped working.

The route guidance does continue to work when there is no signal, or when the gps unit is not working. Wierd, I know, but what happens is that it counts the turns of the wheel, and has a compass to tell which direction the car is pointing in, and does it's best to use that. It means that in wooded valleys and tunnels and things the sat nav doesnt let you down.

The gps unit should know where it is when the car is restarted - unless you've been on a ferry or something - then it may take ten minutes or so to find satelites again. Does it manage to find itself in the end if you don't set it? And does it sometimes make mistakes at roundabouts?

The minutes of the clock are controlled by the gps. This makes your clock more accurate than the beeps on the hour from the radio, even. But you can on the 430 at least turn this off, so the clock runs by itself. Its somewhere on the menus - I can't tell you where. Sorry

Oh, also, there should be a GPS thing that comes up on the screen when it can see satellites. Does this come on at all?

Anyway, good luck with it. I do understand the person above saying about is it worth it when you can get a tomtom, but really, also, if you've got something, its nice to be able to make it work!

For balance, I should say that the 600 has two things the 460 doesnt. One is that the 600 has LED headlights. I don't know how much better they are than the 460 ones, which I've always found more than adequate. The other thing the 600 has is all wheel drive. The 460 is not completely useless in the snow, but it really isn't very good. You will need snow shoes for the tyres if you're going out in proper snow.

Whichever car you buy, there's some stuff that should come with the car that they might not mention if they don't have. Obviously check for the spare and the toolkit, including the torch! The torch is a bit rubbish, but it shows something. However, also check that you have the remote for the entertainment system (needed by the people/children in the back so they can watch/listen to something different to the Radio 4 that you've got on in the front), two sets of infrared headphones (again for the people/children in the back), plus also the keyless entry key.

The keyless entry key is part of the list for the SE L, and should therefore come with the car. Replacements are about £400. You may not want one (I think my one is great, because I don't need to carry any keys any more) but you can certainly use the lack of one for downward negotiation.

Incidentally, if you come across a car like your high mileage one, that has lost its history, you can still check with a Lexus dealer, who will tell you everything. Any Lexus attention the car has had is listed. I think they have more data than that as well.

Patience is everything! At this time of the year dealers are starting to accept that any LS they have now is going to be hanging around til next summer, and the closer you get to Christmas, the lower the prices will start to become. Just remember that you're keen, but they are desperate.

Good luck, anyway, with your search.

In answering this question, I'm a bit worried about offending people. However ...

If you're really keen on the idea of having a hybrid to play with, then, obviously, buy the 600. If you do this, then I'd suggest trying to find a short wheel base version. This won't have the seat in the back with the bit that sticks out, but it will have three seats instead of 2, which is often useful with grandchildren. Also, that extra 30cm of car is a nuisance. 5m long is fine, but 5.3 leaves you sticking out in carparks and things.

Otherwise, I'd suggest buying the 460 SE-L. Get the SE-L version because that has all the toys. Apart from fuel consumption around town, and not having the option of the couch and four seats, the 460, for me, wins on all counts.

It's 200kg lighter than the 600. It's quicker to 62 mph, and possibly quicker to stop as well. It requires 98 load tyres instead of 102, so they are a little cheaper.

The boot of a 460 basic model is an ok sort of size. The SE-L has enough luggage space for 2 people. The 600 is smaller still.

The extra cost of a 600 will be partly recouped by better around town mileage, but you'll have to go a long way to break even; even then a point will come when the Battery needs replacing, which may be around £5k. If you have the car still when its 10 years old, it might be you paying for it. If not, the next person may have to, and will be offering you a lot less for the car as a consequence.

In the UK, the slightly lower carbon dioxide figure of the 600 originally bought a considerable reduction in benefit in kind for company cars, and a lower VED (tax disk) as well, but the escalator on that has now removed that advantage. Both cars are

harshly treated under our tax laws.

Which? magazine recently did a comparison between noise inside a 460 and a 600 when cruising. The 460 was quieter.

As far as the box of toys goes, the 460 SE-L has one important one that only a few later 600s have, which is the lane keep assist. This does two things - bongs you if you go over lane markings, and gives the steering a bit of a nudge, just so you know. But it also helps steer. It's not perfect, but somehow, having a bit of assistance vastly extends how much I can drive before I start to feel at all weary.

There's some other minor stuff too.... cost of insurance, what happens when the car catches fire etc ... but for me it was an easy decision.

Lexus stopped bringing in the 460 when times became tough in 2009 (and have all but finished with the 600 as well). I dont think we'll see another car like it, so I'd say to grab one while they're still around!

Yes

: o )

I knew that one had made it here, but of course, couldn't find out where it was.

Better in the snow, I believe!

http://www.rrg-group...exus-ls-46-se-l

I've known that it existed, and waited for it to come out of the woodwork. Now I see it, I know that it's the wrong colour for me - I much prefer darker colours. I believe it's the only one of its kind in the UK, and was sold just at the point that Lexus stopped selling us the 460.

If you look through the spec, it's got something that no other 460 on British roads has. I could tell you, but I know how much everyone likes a good puzzle. But here's a clue. If you look at the DVLA page you'll notice that its CO2 figure is 274, more than any other LS. They've also had to reduce the power of the engine, compared to a standard 460, to stop it doing too much damage.

: o )