DieterML

Hi, Had my ML 320 CDi for a couple of weeks now :D . As still running it in (perhaps not necessary but it can't hurt) average fuel consumption over first 300 miles of variable driving is 25 mpg (cf 28 mpg over 4 years with old CDi) . This is with all creature comforts turned on (climate control + fan/iPOD etc. etc.) unlike many 400h drivers who appear to be driving around without heating (wierd! :duh: ). Car is much, much better than old 270 CDi and new 320 CDi engine is almost 'petrol-like' i.e. smooth, free revving (up to 4000 rpm!). Overall quality is much improved as is ride (with air suspension - not for 400h drivers unfortunately!) and can't wait to give it a real blast (within legal limits etc.) :D . I'm sure this engine will mate up happily with electric motor (i.e. diesel hybrid) some time in the future :winky: . The important thing is that we enjoy our cars :D . Cheers, Dieter Black ML 320 CDi with airmatic

" Hold me hands up Dieter nice looking car, is that the car your waiting on" Hi Baz, I wish Need to win lottery for that :D . Cheers, Dieter

Hi Bart et al, Click here for a tasty 'mota' :D : http://www.cwwcardesign.com/cars/pics/mbml63amg.jpg It may only do 15 mpg and it ain't gonna save the planet but it sure will thrash the 400h. Come on Lexus, compete? This one's for John :winky: . At least it's a piccie of a car! Cheers, Dieter (still waiting for black ML 320CDi Sport (which has been delayed till Feb) so I might as well keep pestering you lot :winky: )

Dieter's :P gone a :) bit :duh: quite. Hi Bart, "I've gone a bit quite :yack: quite what Afraid I'm gonna have to agree that Merc qualities etc. had slipped but....MB appear to have got the message and new models (including ML , S- etc.) are much better. As for reliability, well time will tell . Ask Kaldoc about RX300 reliability and build quality etc . He was none too pleased with his RX :tsktsk: Don't forget that once you're at the top (as MB was and, hopefully is heading back toward) then the only way is down :winky: Bye for now. Cheers, Dieter

What the test actually said was that ML was quicker in the desert sand, because of the real 4x4 drive, and only quicker to start and soon RX overtook it... until it reached top speed of 190kmh, while ML went over 200kmh... Hi SP, This is the actual quote from the ME article: "That's ably demonstrated when the monotony of the Interstate 80 (sand :P ) leads to some impropmptu testing on clear sections. Slowing to about 30 mph side by side in the ML and the Lexus we undertake some acceleration tests. Despite the ML's 129kg weight penalty the combination of the quick-shifting seven-speed automatic transmission and the 3-litre V6 turbo-diesel's tremendous linear punch sees it pull easily away from the Lexus. It's a similar story at 50 mph though in both cases the Lexus' initial tardiness is replaced by its ability to reel in the Mercedes once its revs rise and the electric motor is giving its all too". I don't see much/any mention of sandy conditions in that quote , do you? The standing start test were carried out on Bonneville salt flats (salt is NaCl, sand is SiO2) and the outcome was essentially the same (as above) quote " However it doesn't take too long for Lexus to flash past" There is no doubt that 400h is quicker to 62 (7.6 v 8.6 sec for 400h and ML respectively) it's just the initial take up may be a tad slower . Whilst I'm quite happy to admit the ML is not as fast overall as 400h it appears some Lexi owners can't bear the thought that an ML could outperform it in any aspect at all Frankly I don't give a toss which is faster, as I don't think these 4 x 4's (and occasional 4 x 4 like 400h) are about outright speed (What is the point of Cayenne turbo? although I'm quite happy for people to own/drive them etc.), they're more about flexibilty and comfort etc. and my understanding is that both cars fulfil these criteria (but in different ways etc.). Overall I feel the ME review was fair. If you don't, well that's OK with me too. As for a 'head to head' I can't see any point. I don't have anything to prove to you. I was just responding appropriately to the thread topic. However it's obvious that your confidence needs a boost :winky: Cheers, Dieter PS Was the Ml towing the gas truck at the same time?

Hi, Nice to see such constructive comments by (some) Toyota owners at last :yack: Cheers, Dieter (ML 320 CDi on order and well pleased with my choice :D )

Hi, Coincidentally there's a write up of this comparison in this months Mercedes Enthusiast . Their conclusion was: (wait for it) :D : "The point might have been to prove diesel superior to the hybrid, but it's lost in the end. Both offer a serious means to reduce America's shocking appetite for oil and that can only be a good thing." So ultimately, as I have written before, which car you choose should be based more on your vehicular requirements and where you drive (urban/suburban/M-way etc.) than on the method of propulsion :winky: . i.e. it's 'horses for courses'. On the matter of acceleration etc. what was again clear from the ME write up was that the ML was initially quicker ( i.e. both from 0mph and rolling 50 mph ) but the 400h soon reeled it in (once revs rose and electric motors kicked in). At top end, however, the ML pulled away again. So as not to be too objective :D the current Brabus D3 chip (power up to 270 ish bhp) would probably give ML the same performance (at low(er) end) as 400h without significantly reducing fuel economy. So hybrid = diesel @ equal BHP (i.e. with chip). Cheers, Dieter

Hi Bart, I was considering 400h so subscribed to this forum :D . I agree that the technology is great :) but for the UK it's not a significant advance over diesel (especially 3rd generation etc. :winky: ). Next year ULS Diesel will become widely available in USA so it will be interersting to see diesel take up then I have now made my decision and have ordered ML, frankly cos, IMHO, it's a better car for my driving requirements etc. :D . I felt that my continued posting on this site brought another point of view to the debate(s) . You obviously feel somehow 'threatened' by these posts so if the concensus is that I shouldn't post anymore that's fine by me :D . Frankly my postings are not car specific and I've never 'knocked' Lexus :yack: . Also you have a 'warn' index and my current score is 0% :D . Now if I said that Lexus had no history and that they're just jumped up Toyota's then perhaps my 'score' would have been higher, it certainly couldn't have been lower? Cheers, Dieter ML 320CDi coming soon :D

Hi, SpwolfX Are you suggesting then that Lexus release the RX180D :yack: . It may will be pretty fuel efficient but you may have to push it up hills :D . After all this is the RX300/400h section. I don't believe I'm telling everyone how great MB is :winky: ? I'm just pointing out that there's ever increasing competition (for hybrid technology) and I believe my posts have been (reasonably) objective :winky: . As to why I chose an MB. I was interested in 400h but ultimately, as I don't do too much urban driving (and I commute to London) it's no better (for me) than a diesel. I also think MB has turned the corner on its quality issues and overall the ML remained more suited to my needs :D . (v XC90/X5 etc. etc.) In a straight test WhatCar placed RX400h 5th out of 6th luxury 4 x 4's (although the margin between first and fifth was small). I've grown out of torque steer and prefer full-time 4wd and a 'gear box' etc. So it's not only Clarkson who doesn't like them (jiggly low speed ride, numb steering etc.) . For info on diesel hybrids click here: http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,66949,00.html If/when MB get hybrid ML it's (probably) going to be a diesel hybrid but like the RX300 v RX400h story if it's £4K dearer I'll stick with 'wot I got'/getting :D As usual enjoy your cars, whatever you drive (cos it's your choice) and don't get too paranoid if someone has a different perspective/preference etc. Wouldn't it be boring if only died in the wool 'Lexus lovers' posted :D Cheers, Dieter

Hi Fergy, We are at the beginning of a hybrid phase. Currently batteries/electric motors etc. add so much to price of car the reasons for choosing them are either increased power or reduced emissions.e. it's not about saving money :winky: . What is as important however is that given current fuel crisis all car manufacturers are thinking hybrid. This increased competition should result in cheaper hybrid systems (including diesel) Current MB systems use a single electric motor which is directly on the transmission (i.e. unlike 400h it works with auto g/box and maintains full-time 4wd function etc.). Intrinsically weight isn't a problem (except you have to overcome it to move i.e. inertia). They don't stick the batteries under the bonnet. :winky: The extra weight is distributed near(er) centre of gravity and if under floor etc. will even lower centre of gravity etc. As for the future well it appears that much more efficient ways of storing hydrogen (in 'solid' sponges etc.) are being developed. Just need to find 'efficient' methods to extract hydrogen from water i.e. no point using current fossil fuel burning power stations to electrolyse water etc. So by 2020 we'll all be driving fuel cell cars like this: :D http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2051012.003 Cheers, Dieter

Hi, So the way to go is Diesel hybrid i.e. start off with better fuel economy (than petrol) and improve it. Unfortunately this area is not Toyota's/Japanese makers strength and new systems such as MB 'BlueTec' system will come to fore. "BLUETEC is a new exhaust gas purification technology that reduces nitrogen oxide (NOX) by about 80 per cent through selective catalytic reduction (SCR). Mercedes engineers developed a special piezo injection valve and a fuel system with a high pressure of 200 bar. The stability of the injection spray - one of the critical aspects of the process - is ensured by a special injection nozzle that opens to the outside and is activated at ultra-high speeds by a piezo crystal. This technology makes the "BLUETEC HYBRID" the cleanest diesel in the world, with the best natural fuel economy available". It's good to see such healthy competition to reduce fuel consumption especially as power increases may also be gained (win/win situation). Cheers, Dieter (More fuel efficient :winky: ML CDi 320 on order :tsktsk: )

Hi, Is that how you have to drive to get the (Lexus) quoted fuel mileage? Yawn You would almost be quicker on a bicycle (and you would get infinite mpg!). Cheers, Dieter

Hi, What's N.O.T.World? I've not seen any recent information along these lines on any motoring site/mag (ABD/Piston Heads'Auto Express etc.). There was a suggestion a while ago that 4 x 4 road tax should be significantly increased but it seemed to have 'gone away'. Cheers, Dieter PS. I didn't vote Labour :yack: cos I work for a living

Hi Parthibun, Modern diesels have long put that image behind them :D and this is even more so for new Euro IV compliant diesels etc. You make it sound like the 400h has zero emissions :P . Under the new system of 'eco-scoring' it gets a red sticker (just like ML) and it's not a coincidence that it's not exempt from (London) congestion charge (unlike Prius). The real facts are that the hybrid was touted to have the economy of a family car. If this is so then, by same token, so does new ML, X5 3.0D etc. What the 400h does is make the fuel consumption of a petrol powered car (but only if driven lightly) equivalent to that of a diesel (no mean feat + you get extra power etc.). I have no problems with this but at a @ £5000 premium! and what value when 7 years old? (year left on battery warranty :yack: ) In my opinion diesel hybrid (using bio-diesel if this Government would only encourage its use) is the next step (prior to fuel cells etc.) and this step won't be led by Toyota. Enjoy your 400h. Cheers, Dieter

Hi, That was an interesting comparison, especially regarding 'in town' driving i.e. not much better than 320 CDi :P . As others have said the main reason for buying 400h is the power increase :D . Thus the 400h gives extra power with better fuel economy than its petrol parent (albeit at a supplement of £5K) which is progress. What the above article showed (to me) was that a petrol hybrid is equivalent to a diesel. Currently Lexus does not have a diesel so the hybrid is a(an expensive) substitute for a diesel. I don't believe any sensible person should compare the Mercedes 270 Cdi engine with the new 3rd generation V6 320 CDi engine (unless you're biased, of course) and equipped with the Brabus D6 chip this diesel unit will give both equivalent power output (to 400h) and fuel consumption (for 1500 euros without invalidating warranty etc.) to standard car. Plus it's still a full time 4wd with a proper gearbox and without torque steer etc. I think the 400h is a good car but it's not for me. And that's the way it is :D . Choice based on availability and preference, not bias and jealousy etc. I'm looking forward to my new ML 320CDi sport (with airmatic :D ) and shall enjoy it as much as the 400h owners enjoy their car. Pleasant driving. Cheers, Dieter