st4

Top speed of the current BMW 520d (best selling model?) is 146 mph.

Adam, please watch the link below it is a real world review from Motomantv how is the car as daily driver.
outcome is that he prefers the hybrid to the 6 cylinder so it does not seem to be that bad after all....
the 0-60 figs just like the topspeed are just irrelevant to me. it is about how the car feels, drives, behaves in traffic. I have not driven one yet so cannot give a balanced view so until that moment...

A good service would probably do more for the car than a remap.

On 1/24/2019 at 2:17 PM, emjay82 said:

We dont need V8's, takeaways, Sky TV, foreign holidays etc. Make a decision based on how much you want the experience of driving and owning a V8. In my opinion, the cost of ownership isn't obscene and only represents a little indulgence in return for a wonderful thrill. 

Couldn't put it better - some will want the takeaways, sky tv and holidays - others more holidays, others none of the above and a great car they enjoy but don't in reality actually drive that much. 

You pay your money and make your choices. I am facing this decision for my next car, Camry or ES/ or an LS/RC/GS V8. Depends on my business and just how I want to spend my money beyond basic living costs. I like cars, and powerful ones, but the extent I am not sure of to commit to run a really special car. My heart says LS460 or RCF, my head says Camry and invest more in my business equipment and seeing more of the world. 

I don't think an RCF, ISF or GS-F would be that ruinous to run. Petrols not really that expensive - really it isn't and you can comfortable fill up with change from £100 - not £1000. £500/yr road tax - it's not that much, not really in scheme of life. If you want to run a car like this, you can make the sacrifices to run it if you've got a reasonable income. It just depends how much other stuff you'd want to sacrifice to do it. 

They'll do over 30mpg on the motorway which is only 1/4 less than a big diseal would do, so a journey from London to Birmingham might cost £30, not £20. Hardly super dear. 

They're a reliable car that's comfortable so why not if you want a bit of fun in your motoring life. 

Much as I like the LS, it is simply not a feasible alternative to the GS for many people - for one thing, running costs are WAY higher (not talking about fuel - tyres, servicing, insurance, parts, etc are much higher on an LS/7/S/A8 than a GS/5/E/A6).  But the main thing that prevented us from entertaining an LS was simply that it does not fit in our garage - the 4850mm GS is a squeeze and the LS500h is nearly a foot longer (5235).  

 

Most of the drivetrain is shared with the Rx450h and they’re not puntitive to run although the warranty cost is off putting for sure.

The ES looks great but I do have some reservations about a car that’ll only do 112mph (when I’m in Germany I drive a great deal faster than this) and I worry slightly the car won’t be fast enough in acceleration. I haven’t owned a car with a top speed as low as that for a long long time and I’m not sure I want to pay for a premium product and travel as slowly as this. Then again I can count on one hand the times I’ve exceeded this speed in the last year...so does it matter?

A 350 one would be fine. I drive in Germany at least once a year and live in rural Scotland. Driving is good here and a car with a bit of poke can still be enjoyed although with ever increasing police patrols, deer numbers (yes that’s a big thing here) and higher traffic volumes the opportunities to drive in a sporty way get less and less.

Depends on my money situation but my heart says aim for a very late LS460 or LS500h if I can afford it - and head says a Camry or ES.

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3 hours ago, Jamesf1 said:

Facts : base price LS was 12% cheaper than S class at launch in US

Toyota is second biggest by sales 2018

And LS base spec would be a great replacement for those with GS450h's and those with GS250's who cannot stomach the fact of FWD 4 clyinder in ES.

The reality would mean buying a 5yo LS as opposed to a 3yo ES in the used market - Lexus warranty would cover the extra faults anyway so it seems a good way to go. 

I guess the market for those who want a big reliable Japanese car
I'm a little disappointed that there's no real 'upgrade' from my GS250 if I decided to go for an ES in the future. I can empathise with why Lexus have chosen to take this stance though. 
 
 

I think stupidity is overstating it somewhat
Whilst I agree that an NA ES350 would not work here, it is the fact that they are taking something away when introducing the ES.
Would it have been economical to bring an ES450h to the UK?  Possibly not.  But then it probably wasn't very viable when they produced the mk4 GS450h, but as I own one, I am very glad they did.
So, while I am most likely in a very big minority, when it comes time to upgrade my GS an ES450h would have been high on the list.

It might be a viable alternative....if it wasn't for the fact that it was twice the price.

No... LS is definitely not for me. I want RC350, I always wanted 2 doors, but RC300h performance insults me... 

.... and it is wider issues for Lexus altogether, it is becoming the case of "you can have any engines as long as it is 300h" on any car in the range. And again as mentioned the gap between 300h and the "F" is unnaturally wide... I recon most people would want "little bit" more powerful car ~350 type, but not necessary 500hp full blown performance car.
I was hammering the same point for a while now - "how long shoe store would survive only selling size 10 shoes" (even though for man it is like 60% of the market).
[mention=53725]Shahpor[/mention] agree re: 350 as well. I am sure it would not fit all people - in fact probably it would suit far less people then 300h does, but that is the point of having choice, not all people are the same and neither 300h is universally suitable or flexible option. One thing which slightly annoys me is that making 350 cost less to Lexus then 300h and many would even pay premium for having 350... so Lexus could have higher margin on it, but they still do not offer it in EU.

True
Although if the only engine choice was the V6 then the last few pages might have looked a little different

Had similar issues with my 2007 model.  Front lateral beam (support for the rad) was badly corroded as was front of engine block itself.  Bonnet was also corroding along parts of the inside face seam and around the bonnet lifter strut mount, where in both cases the aluminium under the paint had powdered and bubbled the paint.  I tried a warranty claim to no avail since the previous owner had applied a few stone chip paint blobs to the bonnet top (and appeared to have re-blown in a small area along the front edge) it was claimed by Lexus that as the bonnet had "been painted by people other than Lexus" this rendered the warranty void.  This has nothing to do with corrosion of the seam but that argument fell on deaf ears.  Not the way to impress brand loyalty from customers.
I was also told that the remedy is not treatment and re-spraying, but replacement of the affected panel. In my case, as the corrosion on the bonnet underside was severe, I had to have it re-sprayed after first taken to bare metal and all corrosion treated.  Cost of that and blowing in side wings was £750.  Front beam wasn't addressed.  The car had previously been owned by someone living close to the Bristol Channel and that possibly was a contributing factor.  I note too that my RX rear subframe and suspension linkages were a little rusty as these appear to not come treated in any way from the factory, which is disappointing.  Not even galvanised.  Lexus need to up their game here and properly see to a decent underseal on these cars, not least as it's what one would expect of a car costing upwards of £55K.  I treated the subframe with XCP professional which I will shortly repeat as it's been about 6 months since I applied it.

Fingers crossed. Have you had the GS from new? Just wondering if it has ever had a dodgy repair with a previous owner. 
Another possibility, rather than just any old dirt it is encrusted 'animal' (hence the tinge).

This is strange, I would not expect that from Lexus. If it is a rust I hope Lexus will fix it without the hustle!

Neither would I - I’m hoping it’s “engrained dirt” rather than rust but it’s got that orange tinge to it

Can you check under yours - just infront of the rear wheels and see if it looks anything like mine?

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That's a bugger, what's the rust warranty like? Any good?

Dunno but I’m going to find out all about it.

Sadly I’ve not got the ability to get the car in the air to get right under it so I cannot clean out the dirt that’s collected on the underside to ascertain how much of it’s rust - how much is just dirt etc?

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Here’s another. The way the undertray is designed is odd as it leaves a small exposed part of painted metal exposed to the ground between the sill cover/side skirt and bottom tray


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I was giving my GS a wash today and was lying on the ground cleaning the lower back door. I wanted to make sure I also cleaned all the lower side skirt - I felt around and it felt rough behind.

This picture is taken of the underside of the car just in front of the off side rear wheel. I cleaned away a lot of the dirt but the orange discolouration looks like rust.

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33 minutes ago, i-s said:

Already is:

https://www.lexus.com/models/LS/specifications

Not in the UK, of course. 

Lottery win import car 😄

On 1/3/2019 at 8:55 AM, B1RMA said:

I agree with the N/A engines it's all about the sound and the fact you have to 'work' the engine. A few cars ago I had a SL63 AMG the one with the the N/A 6.2 litre engine it was wonderful to hear it going up through the gears, I had booked a four hour driving course at MB World in which I had the later twin turbo version of the SL63, it felt a lot more instant and brutal than my current N/A car but driving back after the course decided I liked the old N/A car more. I then progressed to the V12 twin turbo AMG which was ridiculously quick once on the move but again it took the 'fun out of winding the car up through the gears.

I am obviously a dinosaur because I just love using all the revs on a N/A car. Plus having that 8 speed box and the paddles with the RCF/GSF is a delight compared to my previous cars.

Makes you wonder with the PR generated by the Men in Black movie and the possibility of the V8 being phased out the RCF may become a bit more desirable.

You're right, they are more fun but most people just see numbers and go with that. N/A is fantastic but a mid sized saloon with a V6 turbo isn't the end of the world. It's quite a small car to have such a heavy engine over the nose. A V8 in the longer nosed GS, RC, LS makes more sense than in the IS. I'd love to see that V6 turbo in the LS without a hybrid - for a wafty luxury car that's a good fit.

RCF would be a lottery win car and the n/a engine makes more sense in an out and out drivers car you will want to proactively "drive" rather than "waft". 

On 1/2/2019 at 9:54 PM, i-s said:

I think the current N/A V8 models are the last of their kind. 

You can't get a german N/A V8 anymore, and ever tightening emissions regulations push down engine sizes and cylinder counts, with forced induction taking up the slack. 

However, very soon the performance game will move to EVs anyway. 

 

Maybe time to buy an RCF and LC500 if you have the money, I know I would if I could. 

I quite like the look of it and would certainly, if I was in a position too financially, consider one. Turbo V6 is still good. Not V8 good but a good fit for the size and segment positioning of the car where it would likely compete with the C43, Audi S4 etc. 

1 hour ago, Tulpen said:

No problem, Stephen, Argyll is a big area. If I lived in Campbeltown or Tobermory, I'd think twice about going all the way to Alexandria for a test drive!

I'm not far from Lochgilphead 😉 I've moved from Arrochar but have family in Helensburgh. 

Your car looks lovely - truth be told I am not that confident driving LHD cars though - the last time was over 12 yrs ago and I would be terrified of damaging the car but would have uptaken a passanger drive - I just take my righthooker overseas. You got pretty good weather by the looks of things. 

Truth be told I am going to hold off an LS for 2 years. I have too much expense on at the moment and last year was an exceptionally good year, this year will in all liklihood not be as fruitful. 

Great shots Brian.  Did Stephen not turn up then ?