H3XME

42 minutes ago, Derant said:

maybe the issue is when a poster who has never owned a certain model starts lecturing actual owners of said model about what mpg, performance etc they will definitely be experiencing and simply just digs their heels in and keeps repeating there own made up facts in ever longer posts and refusing to listen to actual owners views

I was only describing my limited experience with that car as I said before. What I was stating were facts & opinions. I'm not lecturing anyone, I'm simply a sharing my opinion with others. First impressions matter, and if you get something you need to get used to because you're a bit "meh" about it at first, it's not right imo. Especially when you're spending tens of thousands of pounds on it.

I said multiple times now, the RC300h does not suit me. It's not what I expected, and it's not something people like me will enjoy, hence why I described my experience and reasoned my view. You don't need to spend hours or days with a car to figure out that it's slow & unresponsive. Sure, MPGs is a different story, that's dependant on many factors, but like I said, in the same short drive, my V6 would achieve the same numbers. I'm not saying that people who bought RC300h made the wrong choice, I'm only saying that if I purchased RC300h, I would make a wrong choice because it's not for me, and me only. 

If you see a review of something, and someone says "it's sh*t, it's not for me" you will wonder why. I'm simply saying why in all these paragraphs 😉 and if you don't share any of my values & views, then you will go ahead, but if you do, you will not be getting a hybrid version of this particular car. 

18 minutes ago, PRT68 said:

Some of us want a sheep in wolf's clothing. 

Some want a wolf in sheeps clothing. 

Yeah I guess this sums it up pretty well.. 

1 hour ago, Rabbers said:

Admirable post, Peter.  Personally, I would further comment that my occasional irritation at the RC300h not being praised for what it is but criticized for what it is not has now turned to boredom. 

What is it? Very very good looking coupe with a great driving position, decent chassis, full of tech and potential. RC itself is great, there are amazing options such as the RC350 (3.5l V6) or RC-F (5.0l V8). What I was getting at in this post is the hybrid version. In my opinion it's a lazy, unresponsive, heavy coupe that does not suit me personally. This car would've been a lot better as 450h if hybrid is what you're after. 300h drivetrain is enough for IS or maybe even ES, but it just does not suit the sportiness of the RC. Are you telling me you wouldn't go for 450h version instead if it was available for extra ~£7000? e.g. The price difference between GS300 and GS450h was only £3k for base spec of either option back in 2006.

28 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

I have already argued this case to the hell and back... but this view point of "cheap and cheerful" sports car just doesn't resonate in here for some reason. With RC is either all or nothing... 

And I never thought I would say it, but it I started to realise there is such thing as "too much power" and RC-F is that when it comes to daily driven car. Sure RC-F power is very manageable and comes very predictably and you can moderate it very well, so it may never feel like it, but RC350 would practically do all the same, just without the price tag. This almost the same argument as 300h owners make - "fast enough", but "fast enough" at different level. I can still fully use potential of RC350 to the level where that extra power would provide tangible benefit for me over say RC200t, but I truly can't benefit from RC-F more than from RC350.

Yeah definitely.. 

300h or even is250 may be fast enough.. But fast enough for what? Daily commute? Absolutely

Fast enough for over taking? Not really. 

At the end of the day it depends on what you expect from a car.. and you & me expect pretty much the same things but unfortunately the europe-available RCs can't give it to us unless it's the F. So F this and let's end this thread on the fact we're too poor to own the RC we really want. 

2 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

Look back at some of the most 'sporty' looking cars of the 50's, 60's and 70's what sort of bhp did they produce? The 0-60 time would seem glacial compared even with modern day shopping cars, never mind performance cars!

I used to drive a 5.5ltr super-charged V8 4 door, 4 seater luxo-barge (OK a CLS55AMG) with a 0-60 of 4.5sec, fantastic car but totally unusable 90% of the time. I also used to drive a 2.6ltr HSR with a similar 0-60 but back in the 80's one could actually enjoy that performance. I also drove a 998cc Monte Carlo Imp and to be honest that car gave the most driving satisfaction at less than half the performance.

The look of a car has little to do with performance or driver satisfaction but a lot to do with 'enjoyment' and 'pride' (if that makes any sense!) My RC has attracted more compliments and comment than any other, far more 'capable', car I've owned. That all said I really do love driving it. Quick blasts round the country roads, long 4-5hrs drives across the country and slow trundles across town. It lends itself to the complete spectrum of journeys, allowing the driver to be as 'involved' as he wishes. Or simply conveyed in absolute comfort and safety.

All IMHO obviously..

Yes, old cars didn't have a lot of power, but it's because they didn't need it. Those 50s, 60s sports cars would weight easily half of the RC. Bashing through the rev counter with no assists. That's a true fun factor and an experience of its own.. Power to weight ratio is one thing, but that's not my point. The point is that 300h drive train is not very well suited to an RC chassis due to what it represents. A grand tourer, or even a sports car some would say.. (I'd have more fun driving it even with the 4GR engine that's in the IS250 that technically makes less power at 208hp) 

No doubt your car attracts attention and turns heads. It's a beautiful car, that's what I'm saying. It's so beautiful and the lack of "middle" ground engine option is a real shame because I feel like it would've done a lot better sale-wise if there was the middle ground. Let me use BMW as an example again. We have something like 420 -  the base spec engine for people that want a nice car and don't care about economy. Then there's the turbo 6 cylinder 435, the middle ground for people who want a bit of performance but can't afford the M4. With the RC you only get the Base spec engine or the top tier. A whole category of buyers was forgotten about or ignored.
You say you have fun driving around country lanes and going cross country. I don't doubt it, but I'm sure you and me have a different idea about having a blast on country lanes. I like to stretch its legs and I can tell I wouldn't enjoy doing that in RC300h because the car wouldn't enjoy it. RCF is unfortunately the only way but that's too expensive for most of us. 

6 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

A bit off topic but the 2 litre diesel that BMW used in the 3 and 5 series is one of the best engines i have driven. Torque a plenty and incredibly fuel efficient. 

Btw, coupes from Mercedes, BMW and Audi. Guess what engines are the best sellers...  Hint, 4 pot petrol 156 hp.

Nobody says they're bad, they just don't suit a sporty car. 
Of course, people want a sporty looking car without the performance of one because it just looks good and unfortunately that's the world we live in. I'd be embarrassed being seen in a good looking, fast looking car even, such as the latest C class coupe or RC if it was a diesel or something underwhelming with 150hp that cannot backup its looks 

4 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Large group of people don't care how car drives (but get's very offended if you state this fact), so I can't say RC300h shouldn't be available, because for many people it is just "good enough". Probably like Phil said - it is 80/20 rule and both of us are firmly in that 20% group. So the problem is not existence of RC300h, the problem is lack of choice for those buyers who would be RC350 type of buyers. It is just ridiculous that Lexus didn't think it would be beneficial to bring that car here, considering they already have it and they already make it and they even make it in RHD for Japan and Australia. And even by sale numbers it would have always been that way 74% 300h, 5% RC200t, 20% RC350 and 1% RC-F. Now you either have to go with 80% of slower car or squeeze 20% into way faster and way more expensive car. 

Yeah it's a shame, I think they fully missed the boat with this.. We've had Nissan 350Z & 370Z forever here (decent engine GT car), Toyota didn't really have a sports car in the UK until the GT86 and Supra, and even then, those two cars are in a different league to Lexus RC. So by having RC350 here, I think it would appeal to people who ended up with BMW 440i instead. There is no middle ground for this car in the UK. It's either a hybrid (lets ignore 200t since it's almost non-existent) or the extremes of RC-F. I honestly think RC350 would've been such a popular coupe if advertised well. It's true what you say, I talk to my friends about this weekly.. There is virtually nothing to choose from for middle-class enthusiasts as it's either a ****ty engine + looks = affordable or good engine + looks = not affordable. Like I say, almost no middle ground on the UK market these days. If we're talking in New Car terms. 

1 minute ago, Zotto said:

The "lag" feeling is common to all drivers accustomed to associate engine revs  with speed like it happens in cars with manual gears or also in automatic with frictions  and a discrete numbers of gears, and it's a common mistake. An eCVT , where  engine revs are not related to instant speed leaves the driver accustomed to associate sound with speed somewhat confused. It's the same habits that make many people to say electric cars are not sport cars because there is not the roar of a thermal engine.

Perhaps, and it is something people can get used to, it's just that driving the 300h felt like I had to put more effort into speeding up even if its just by 10mph. 

10 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

That is not the point. Point is, because it is RC-F aka sort of top of the range model... every single part comes at premium. Brakes are brakes, but RC-F one is £1700, yet for some reason very similar size brakes in GS300h are £450. And sure, maybe brakes are bad example, because now there are aftermarket alternatives, but for every single part you will have to pay 3 or 5 times more, just because it is meant for "RC-F". And even then £441 for just discs is ludicrous money... what is it on IS250? £80... and even then when ECP has discounts it's cheaper.

Other thing to note - big issue for RC300h is expectations. If it would be some cheap hatchback, not overly aggressively styled, then one would drive it and would be like... yeah "meh" outside matches the inside nothing to see here. But RC really looks beautiful and fast even at stands still, interior is special place to be in and you expect it wool be special car to drive, but when you try suddenly nothing comes out of it... and that contrast is what makes it feel worse than it actually is. 

Yeah of course, but it is what it is.. can't expect a top tier car, especially from a manufacturer like Lexus to be cheap in the servicing department and I don't. I don't have issues with that at all, it's not what I'm saying. Hell, having £35k will get you Nissan GT-R and you'll run into the exact same "issue" - running cost. Having driven a GT-R, I know I wouldn't enjoy it day to day as much as RC.. There's nothing luxurious about the GT-R, yet it comes with premium price tag for parts just like the RC-F. Gotta pay for performance - and that being said, RC is something that never should've been available with less than 6 cylinders.

1 minute ago, wharfhouse said:

Everyone to their own - you have tested the car and found that it doesn't fit your needs which is all well and good. You probably need to be in a higher engined BMW coupe to get the feeling you are looking for.

Just as a reference, I came from the larger engined BMW 6 cylinder cars to the IS 300h. Although I do a decent mileage in my cars I wasn't really using the BMWs for how they were designed - too many road restrictions, speed cameras and traffic jams these days. I had a full day test drive with an IS 300h and it ticked all the right boxes for me as a car to be used for every day travel - relaxing, quiet, very comfortable for long days behind the wheel, decent handling and to be honest plenty enough power for today's traffic unless you want to be overtaking everything in front of you at every opportunity. I came back from the days test drive and bought a 2 year old IS 300h the next day. I've had it for over 5 years now and have put nearly 80K miles on it myself and have never regretted buying it in all that time, nor missed the BMWs I had in the past. As an every day car in normal driving (not a weekend blast) in town or on the motorway it really is hard to beat. On fuel consumption by the way - over the 80K miles I have not reset the trip and I have achieved a 48mpg average - a good proportion of that motorway miles at a decent pace (I have to be where I need to be at particular times so don't get that much chance to drive particularly economically). The hybrid drive train doesn't suit everyone - it's probably the 80/20 rule. If you are in the 20 that is looking for a more out and out sporting car experience doing more limited mileage probably need to look elsewhere. For everyday longer distances and higher mileage it does a lot of things very well. 

Thanks for the input, Phil. I would agree there, I had a loan car, IS300h for two days when mine was in for a recall, and I enjoyed it, not going to lie. I can forgive the IS300h for everything I mentioned above, it's an entry level executive saloon, no issues. I just can't help but dislike everything about the RC300h that I didn't mind in the IS300h purely because of what the car represents - a grand tourer. I think Lexus nailed it with RC350 and perhaps even RC-F, but as a hybrid, it's just a no no for this car in my opinion. I didn't think it would be an issue, on paper, but after driving it, I do think it's a problem personally.

19 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

I am sure the engine won't be your problem, but how about £1700 front disks? As for seats folding - yes sorry, that is only for RC-F. 

EBC sell a pair of OE-replacement front discs for £441.. I wouldn't worry. They aren't grooved like the factory ones, but grooves help with heat minimally, it's about the vents in the discs. Also, this would only be an issue should you go on the track, which I wouldn't. Pads are ~£120 a set. Where there's a will, there's a way. We all know it's always cheaper to DIY. Brakes are brakes, there's no need to all of a sudden start going to the dealer for brakes change just because you have a nice car.. Peugeot 106 or RC-F, brakes are brakes. Going to the dealer is nice should something go wrong, but for basic servicing, I trust myself more than some technicians who don't care. 

16 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

RC200t gearbox is fine, but combination between 8 gears and engine which only makes power between 2000-4000RPM is what kills it - constantly hunts for gears and is never in the right gear. It only starts driving when you already at 50MPH and then pull quite well to ~110MPH (which isn't very useful in UK). RC200t has one distinct advantage which is folding rear seats, this makes it surprisingly practical car and I hate that neither RC-F, nor RC300h has this option. I was thinking that it would have been even better if RC would have been made as "liftback" as it would be even more practical without any downsides, but it wasn't t be.

As for RC300h, that is spot on - looks fast when stationary, but when you drive it is better to forget you are in "sports" coupe, one needs to drive as if they always "hypermiling" it, that sort of drive style works well. Chassis is good, handling is actually good with adaptive suspension in F-Sport, but otherwise very underwhelming. Fuel consumption is poor on motorway, throttle response is poor in city, but it is actually reasonably enjoyable to drive on 50-60MPH A-Roads, mostly because again handling and chassis is good, you can carry speed through the corners and it is not too bad. Even eCVT kind of works, because it gives instant response and you can change engine braking/torque when cornering quite well.

Waiting for RC-F to reach 20k... that would be my goal as well, but the problem is that by the time they do they will be 10 years old and very tired, especially the cheap ones. So one thing is to get reliable Lexus sports car when it is under warranty and another, getting one 10 years old without warranty. And trust me bills on RC-F can escalate quickly. And that is key issue with not having RC350, it would be fast enough without high maintenance of RC-F.

The sales guy said the rear seats do fold on the 300h. 

As for the older RCF.. I wouldn't worry about warranty. It's a fairly old school V8.. I think the engine will be the last thing to go wrong on that car. 

I've liked these since they came out. I never bothered driving one because they were out of my budget, but you can get one for reasonable money on PCP now.. Anyway, I actually went to Lexus Birmingham on Saturday and test drove RC300h they had in. I'm glad I did because now I can forget about the hybrid version. Car looks amazing, I really like it. Test drove a white 2017 car, but they also had 2016 red & blue in.

As soon as I got in the car, I adjusted the seat and I was very happy with the seating position. Nice and low, reminded me a lot of my GT86, which was surprising because these high end luxury coupes sometimes struggle with it, e.g. 4 series. I liked the interior vibe I was getting, once you're behind the wheel and you shut the door, it's really nice in my opinion. Again, you don't often get it with other cars. Even the new Supra isn't quite like this inside. Anyway, time to actually drive the car. Gently drove off, it was fine, as you'd expect from a hybrid, nice and smooth, didn't notice any of the annoying electric motor sound you normally get from a Prius when you're in a taxi 😄 That's a positive. However, leaving the island from Lexus and joining a dual carriageway was very underwhelming. To be fair, I didn't floor it, I was going at it in a normal manner, as I would in my own car. The car felt very lazy. When I gave it some beans, I had time to look at my wrist watch and back before it started doing something. Almost as if there was a very bad turbo lag, except silent until the petrol engine kicked in. Then I realised that I was in the eco/normal mode. I changed to sport mode, the dash turned red, the accelerator was suddenly a little sharper, similar to the PWR button in an automatic IS250. So in sports mode everything got a little better, but it was still laggy compared to a normal linear power delivery of a naturally aspirated petrol engine. It's still awful really when manufacturers do this to cars to make you and the car drive as economically as possible for the cost of driving experience. I think the car handled quite well, from the limited short test drive. Seems like a nice, rigid chassis and with the right power train this car would be a good fun despite its weight. I drove sensibly throughout the test drive. It was a mixture of 30, 40 & 50 roads with single lanes, traffic lights, dual carriageways and some roundabouts. This "lag" I'm talking about, happened again at 40mph, the car was honestly struggling to get to 50mph without me having to step on it. The way I would normally accelerate from 40 to 50 in 4th or 5th gear, was not enough pressure to the pedal in the RC. The car felt like it was in 7th gear which is non sense since it's a CVT. That being said might be just because I'm not used to it and it needs to be driven differently, however at the end of the test drive we arrived with 22.8MPG. Ridiculous, my V6 would do the same.

To wrap this up.. RC300h is definitely not the car for me, or anybody else who is into cars on a higher level than your neighbour Fred who has an M badge on his 520d. It doesn't drive the way a proper car should. The RC300h I drove did not drive the way I'd expect, it did not achieve the fuel economy I'd expect and it did not perform the way I'd expect. I was only looking at hybrid because it looks good and if it was as good on fuel as the official figures claim, I'd get over the way it drives. It would be my daily driver, just to work and back, not a fun weekend car, but I do 35 miles on the motorway each day and my IS250 will have very similar MPGs at 42mpg on the run..  Sure, it will drive differently, it's a hybrid with a lazy 4 cylinder under the bonnet, but the way it was, the looks & driving position are the only things it's got going for it in my opinion. I think it's good enough for people who aren't petrol heads because they can enjoy the looks while not being fussed about how different it drives. There is not enough benefits for me to justify spending £370/m on a car with this powertrain. I don't see any point in having hybrids to be honest, the difference is minimal for people like me who commute on the motorway.

I'm yet to drive RC200t like I said to the sales guy, because the 300h experience leaves me with only two options. 200t IF I like the way it and drives (a lot of people seem to dislike the gearbox) or wait some more for RC-Fs to be around low £20s.. in a couple of years.

It's a shame, and I must agree with @Linas.P I'm really jealous of USA & JAPAN because of the availability of RC350 which seems like the perfect engine for this car. Importing one from Japan will work out more than buying an RC-F here so not feasible. 

On 2/1/2022 at 9:11 PM, Linas.P said:

I wonder if dealership got scammed... traded the car and owner was like... "this car has all the options - Mark and LeWison audio". But I guess they should have known better.

It's being sold in Birmingham.. says it all😂  

3 minutes ago, Pm4 said:

Another point is that  you are helping a little the environment and your conscience especially in built up areas.

Do we really care about environment that much though? I think it's just running costs for most people. Purely environmentally speaking, EVs are worse for the planet overall due to batteries. Not to mention, cars contribute by only ~5% of the world's C02, so emissions and this EV/Hybrid hype makes very little difference to the planet.. I suppose for the people making these decisions it's easier to target this than targeting industrial sector which is the biggest contributor to pollution. 

24 minutes ago, RonsonSJohnson said:

Morning Folks,

When do you think a good age for an older Lexus to stop going to the dealer for standard services ?

mine is a 2012 99k miles with a 90% service history (previous owner could not get to Lexus during the pandemic)

I am due the scheduled 135kms service and its 400 euro... not much involved oil, filter, cabin filter, check over and hybrid check

I think i will go to the major service with spark plugs and that will be that(800 euro).

I understand its a premium car with a premium service price tag, but seems its the most expensive dealer service around. my 2016 6 series was 200 euro for a BMW service as an example.

 

Shop around for a local specialist. They're normally competitive enough so it's worth it. As long as you service it every year and get the stamp, I don't think it matters whether it's Lexus or independent garage that does the servicing. 400EUR for oil n filters is a lot.. 

Get some from a low mileage breaker.. it'll be okay. Mine were still relatively okay on 130k miles when I changed to coilovers. 

I use the standard 3mm sticky pads from Halfords and it's worked very well over the years. Never had a plate off. I was thinking of magnets so when I go to shows I can go plate less (at least on the front) without any hassle, but I haven't tested it yet.

15 minutes ago, true blue said:

Hi Lucas ,might be worth taking out the pump and checking ; when you can hear it running it does not mean the spindle is turning the impeller which may have jammed and sheared  had this happen before but not on the Lexus

Dave

Perhaps. I'll check it out.. I also just found an old thread: 

1 hour ago, Dcisfsport said:

 Yeah I just come across that. I’ve ordered one from Amazon, do you know the best way to remove the clips that hold the sound proofing to the bonnet? 

Let me know how you get on. My washer jets stopped working too..I can still hear the pump when I pull the stalk so that's fine, there must be a blockage somewhere though.. Jets under the bonnet look clean so it might be the valve like Steve says above.

50 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

Way hey I got just that same effect. Much cheaper than your springs too. 13x30kg bags of garden rubbish in the boot lol

 

Budget lowering 😂

The manual gearbox can handle it, you won't be at 300lbs/ft by using the supercharger. Unless you're planning on tracking the car, I wouldn't worry too much. And if you was to start thinking about a new box.. BMW conversions are cheap enough. However.. CREST Motorsports offer something around £5-6k drive in & out 3UZ conversions for IS200s.. and when I spoke to them they were very interested in getting into this platform and doing a deal, so if you're in a position where you can fork out ~£5k cash, you'll have V8 IS250 for a lot less than spending money on IS-F.. The ECU is the biggest problem of doing anything on this car. You need a LINK or something.

16 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

where’s your friend based mate? 

Leicester

10 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Seem to be market price now - I paid £3950 8 years ago for 2008 SEL with 120k miles. That was 6 years old car then! Nowadays prices have increased significantly, so £5k doesn't buy you much now.

However, for that price I would expect immaculate car without missing buttons and with decent rubber on the wheels. When I see anything with chinesium tyres that instantly has to go before any deal can be made, or discount for full set of tyres has to be made.

I hate when dealers says "yes, but they road legal" and that just drives me mad. Not everything that road legal is good and chinesium tyres are literally dangerous to use at any speed. I would argue they should be illegal and found it funny that insurance cares about aftermarket wheel shape, but don't care that the only thing holding you on the roads is not up-to standard. 

Meh, tyre companies have to go through some tests. You say some Chinese tyres are bad.. look at Michelin Primacy that come on GT86 & Prius from the factory. Worst tyre ive ever experienced. (everyone will say the same thing) No grip what so ever, yet it's a good brad.. it all depends on compound. I've used Landsail budget tyres - £60/pop at 225/40R18 and I found them stickier than Proxes TR1 I normally go for. Mismatch tyres on the same axle are worse than a set of cheap tyres in all 4 corners. 

@HoofHearted

To be honest, if the car is a good nick inside out, looks looked after, the lack of SH wouldn't really put me off. I do my own servicing so no stamps in the book.. however, 112,000 miles for £5k+ is too much and I wouldn't pay that... My friend is selling his ~60,000 mile facelift in the same colour - automatic, screen, black leather if you want? I think he's asking for £6k? He bought it for that much last year, but going back to an estate as figured out it's not the most practical car for him because the rear seats don't fold..