SpOcK

The misfortune and bad karma hovering around my project doesn't seem to come to an end! :tsktsk:

Everything was already put together, and all that was missing to be able to start the engine first time was all the fluids (coolant, motor and gbox oils, etc). When the guys at the garage began to pour the coolant into the engine, it started dripping onto the floor from between the block and gbox. Only way to tell where it came from, was to remove the gbox, clutch and flywheel... The guilty turned out to be the water cap/plug (the ones which are supposed to pop out should the fluids inside the block freeze) behind the flywheel. And not only the plug, but also a (hair)fracture running ~3cm onwards from the side of the plug's hole!

Because the block is cast iron, it's almost impossible to weld, and it wouldn't be wise either, because welding (ultimate heat targeted only to a small area) could warp the block. Because at this point my funds wouldn't allow me to begin the whole process from the square one and spend at least 3.000 euros more, we agreed on trying to fix the fracture.

They welded a nut on the cap and drilled a threaded hole to the point where the fracture had gone to keep it from advancing more. Then they grinded of some material from either "wall" of the fracture to make more contact surface for the chemical metal (not sure about the correct term?). Then they "baked a cake" of chemical metal over the grinded "valley" and connected the welded nut and the threaded hole with bolts and a brace.

The first attempt didn't hold and the coolant dripped onto the floor once again. The removed the "cake" and did it again with some other chemical material. This time they got it to hold. But only to discover that the water circulation hoses for the turbos and their joints (these where fabricated in the past when the turbos where first installed) where now leaking. Once again they had to drain the coolant and fix the joints.

Once they got the coolant to hold in the engine, they started to pour the oils in, only to discover that almost at the same pace as the engineer was pouring the oil into the engine, it dripped almost onto his shoes from the bottom of the engine! :megaangry:

This time it turned out to be the mis-treated oil pan and the opening to the oil level sensor on the side of the pan. At some point during the process someone had used too long bolts for the level sensor, so the bolts had penetrated into the pan and popped the reinforcement plate from its weldings and now the oil leaked from between the plate and the pan.

This project has reached a point where I'm minutes away from pushing that POS down from a cliff, claim the insurance money, and buy myself a bicycle... :tsktsk: :tsktsk: :tsktsk:

Thats the answer i was looking for:P

Yes these are VNT turbos from a diesel engine (Jaguar S-Type 2.7D) I will then no longer "waste" anyones time buy asking if there is a possibilty to use these, now that i see what you mean :)

Thank you all for your anwers i learned a lot.

Good if you found it helpful. Adie has a turbo kit for sale, drop him a PM... :winky:

On the Jaguar S-Type there are two turbo`s(Garret) wich have electronic actuators(no Wastegate) that controlles the flow. If i put this actuator arm to wide open and weld it and then use an external wastegate, is this possible???

I'm a bit confused... When u say "no wastegate", do u mean there is no (internal)wastegate at all on the turbo(s)? Or do you mean that there is a wastegate but that the wastegate isn't electronic, but the actuator is?

If the turbos have actuators, it must mean that they also have wastegates, 'cause that's what actuators do: control wastegate.

It would be too complicated to try to control the electronic actuators, so what you can do, is to replace these electronic actuators with a generic pneumatic actuators, which can then in turn be controlled by a boost controller. No need to weld those and use an external wastegate. I suggest you find actuators with relatively low opening pressure, say, 0.4bar. Because you can always use higher boost with the boost controller, but not lower than the actuators opening pressure. And with std internals you would want to keep the boost down. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about...

But I think the main question here is, that are those turbos from gasoline or diesel engine, and/or are they VNT (Variable Nozzle Turbines) turbos often used in modern turbo-diesel applications? This kind of turbos have a sort of internal "wing", which is kind of like VVT-i and it varies the turbos geometry and how the inlet air is directed towards the turbine wheel.

(at this point, I had a little pause writing this, and I just got it! )

I bet they are these VNT turbos from a diesel engine! That's what the electronic actuators are there for! If and when they are VNT turbos, DO NOT use them in gasoline engine! Because the exhaust temperatures are much higher in gasoline engines than they are in diesel engines, the heat will destroy the "wing" and maybe the turbine wheel as well. Although there is no doubt about the positive effect of this sort of mechanism to the turbos efficiency, the heat is the reason why it is not yet implemented in gasoline engines. As soon as engineers come up with materials that are heat-resistant enough, I'm sure "variable geometry" turbos will come also to gasoline engines. But today isn't that day...

I suggest you sell those and get yourself a decent pair of "normal" turbos from/to a gasoline engine.

Hope this helps.

EDIT: Before someone else posts, I'll add that, yes, Porsche is soon (or maybe it has already?) going to introduce (world's first?) gasoline engine with variable geometry turbo. But I wouldn't even want to try imagine the price tag on that... :duh:

EDIT #2: And HERE is how VNT turbo works, if someone is interested.

Actually, there is a IS with a supra-engine, and there is a twin-turbo IS 200. HOWEVER none of them are street legal in Norway, mine will be. So, yes, it will be the first turbo'd IS in Norway IMHO!

I think the car will be good, and I don't wish any more discussions about the previously mentioned topic here or any other place, it doesn't belong in public.

Congratulations, mate on my behalf also! :) Bet you'll be well satisfied with your ride now that it has the power to match the appearance! Not trying to hijack your thread, but just out of interest as being a twin turbo'd IS200 owner myself also, would you happen to have any more info about my Norwegian counter-part...? Would be interested to hear about his/her setup.

Cheers,

Sami

This has been discussed many times before already, but the VVT-i doesn't "kick-in". As the name suggests "Variable Valve Timing - intelligence", the inlet cam is adjusted all the time depending on various inputs (throttle position, load, etc). The "kick" comes from when the inlet manifold changes from long to short in about 4300rpm. It uses the longer inlet route on low revs trying to give it a little more low-end torque, and then switches to a shorter route @4300 giving it a little more high-end grunt. But as Adie said, you have to rev the sh*t out of std IS for it go to anywhere...

NIIIIIIIICE!!! Bet you're all over the place...

, I know, but what make are those brake discs (front / rear / both?)? And how much did they set you back? Are you happy with them?

Also fitted B&M short shifter very nice feel but a bit more hard work shifting. Have noticed noise coming from the gear shifter area is this normal on the B&M ???? sounds like viabrating or something ???????

Mine does also a sort of "whizzing" sound, like the one that can be heard from a WRC car when they show the in-car cam... I think it's actually quite cool! B)

In the UK..

The J160 should be good for around 400-450. Dont worry about the tranny, It will hold up..Mine only got stuck in gear once and after years of driving and I think that was due to a crappy gear change. And I didnt drive like a granny either. I sold the gearbox with the motor and the box was perfect. . I have seen sprinters with the same box with more power.. And they are used as drift cars..

This is not saying your box will stand up to slicks and a decent launch at the track.. Although I have seen and witnessed many cars that have.. I am saying it will stand up to what you dish out on the road and everyday use.

My car made a fraction under 400HP at the flywheel @ 18psi before I sold it the motor to make room for the current set up :D (Waste gate didnt allow me to boost any higher and I then sold it before I fixed it.) Motor was good for 450-500hp once sorted.

I bet your looking forward to getting the car back together and having a drive.. Nice work.

I think I have to be the first to put out over 400hp without an engine swap, then... :D At least in Finland.

And thanks for the assurance about the gbox. I'm not planning on using slicks, neither it is a track car. Just everyday cruising.

I just ordered the last bits and bobs for to be able to complete the LSD installation, and there's still radiator and manifold to be installed. Then it should be all sorted out.

Unfortunately after that there's still that :tsktsk: fight with the Finnish authorities to pass all the required tests and MOT to keep my car street legal...

Thank you for the information Sami :)

It is these things that was bothering me. Do you have information on type or brand off these things?

- bigger injectors / extra injector(s)

- piggy-back ecu / stand-alone ecu

I have two twin turbos and thought i could use one of these. but these where sitting on a Jaguar S-type 2.7D

and they have electronic actuators. I also have one thats without.

I am not dreaming off speed of sound, i guess everything over 200HP would give the car the little extra that it misses without me breaking my engine.

Oz.

The brand of the injectors isn't important, as long as they fit. There's such a huge selection of injectors available, that you have to do some research on your own. There ARE others, but the only ones which are physically a "straight-fit", are the ones from Toyota Supra MKIII 7M-GE engine. They are (if I remember right) 330cc, while the IS200 standard injectors are ~220cc. BUT, the Supra injectors are LOW impedance (~4Ohm), while the IS200's are HIGH impedance (13Ohm), so you would have to use ~10Ohm resistors with the Supra injectors, or you're going to end up frying your original ECU.

I would recommend that you pay a visit to some of your local professional garages, and bring one original injector with you as a model. And it would also be wise and safest to choose an injector with HIGH impedance. Depending of the (piggyback or stand-alone) ECU you choose, something between 300cc - 400cc would be a good size for the injectors.

Or you can do what I did, leave the original injectors as they are, and use an extra injector(s). But your chosen ECU has to support this feature.

What comes to the ECU, that's the tricky one... If you ask around, the best ECU is always the one that the person you ask from is using... They all have their pros and cons, and you have to make your decision based on what you're after, whether you want to stay street legal (find out your local laws and regulations!) and your budget.

It surely ain't the best, but because of my local laws and regulations I couldn't go for a stand-alone ECU (I wanted to stay street legal), I chose Greddy eManage Ultimate piggy-back, and so far have been happy with it.

Hope this helps,

Sami

EDIT:

Oh, and I would use a turbo with mechanical (internal) wastegate (if that's what you meant by "actuator"). The opening pressure for the wastegate should be something like 0.4bar, because without forged internals you wouldn't want to use high boost pressures anyway. You can always up the boost pressure with boost controller, but you can not use lower pressure than that of the wastegate's opening pressure.

Hi all.

Like the topic said i need help to find a kit that i can use. It will cost to much to import it to where i live wich is Norway becuse of the size,weight and our taxes and customs. Could some one who has a kit give me detailed info on what it is inside this kit. Everything from size an brand etc. That woud be a great help. Than i can get bits and peaces here and there since i dont have that much of cash right now.

what else is needed besides this kit

Oz.

Hi Oz, and welcome to the Club!

As far as I know, there's only one "bolt-on" turbo-kit available for IS200 (the one from www.turbo-kits.com), and even that isn't truly a "bolt-on job" contrary to what the name suggests...

All the guys here at the forum, including myself, who have turboed their IS' have done it more or less themselves, or had it done in some professional garage.

I suggest that you contact some of your local garages, and ask them for a quote for the job. Of course the more you manage to do yourself, helps to keep the costs down. I did all the turbo piping myself. The donor for my turbos was an Audi 2,7T, and then I've collected other bits and bobs from here and there, as most of the guys here.

If you don't have a comrehensive understanding what is needed to undergo such a massive conversion, I'd leave to professionals. At the end of the day that saves you time, money and nerves.

And for example the choise of the turbo charger itself, isn't just a case "the bigger the better". The choise depends on what you're after (over-all driveability, high top-end grunt, low rev torque, etc) and how much you can spend on the project.

But all in all, you need at least these:

- turbo(s)

- turbo manifold

- turbo piping

- down pipe

- intercooler

- air filter

- dump valve / blow off valve

- bigger injectors / extra injector(s)

- piggy-back ecu / stand-alone ecu

- possibly modifications to the fuel system (pump, return line...)

In addition, you might want to concider (depending what you're after) forged internals, as seen HERE.

And you mustn't overlook the importance of correctly dyno-tuning and mapping the ecu after the installation. Also keep in mind (or find out) your local laws and regulations, if you're ever planning to keep your car street legal.

Hope this helps,

Sami

EDIT:

You might wanna check THIS SECTION of the forum, and have a look at least the topics posted by Adie, Ellz, RoadRash and myself. We (among others) have gone the turbo route. After reading if any further questions should arise, don't hesitate to ask on this forum, or send a PM.

Once I got the right guys to do the job, things are moving on a swift pace... The engine's already in place, and as I write the "auxiliaries" (alternator, power steering pump, etc) are being fitted. The rear axle has also been removed because of the LSD being fitted. They said that it should be ready for the first start tomorrow!

I just may be able to drive my baby next week first time in over a year! First we put some mineral oil in for the run-in and "bedding", after that we change to high-grade synthetic. Sorry, no piccies...

FINALLY something good seems to be coming to my way also!

At last the guy who assembled the engine has had enough time to finnish it. The chassis has also been towed to the garage for the new engine to be put in!!!

It's SUPPOSED to take 1-2 weeks, but I've learned my lesson during this project, so I'm still not holding my breath yet...

The "spec sheet" is basically the same as it was in the very first post of this thread, but I added ceramic coating to the pistons for them to better withstand heat and knocking, and also a Cusco 1.5-way LSD is going in.

Try to keep you posted.

Thanks everyone. It doesnt look like there are major changes like different gear-boxes or anything.

There's currently a lot of 2000 models in my price range, doesnt look like I'll miss out on too much by going with an earlier model.

Cheers,

Scott.

<-2000 models have smaller brakes, whereas 2001-> IS200 models have the same brakes as the IS300 and GS300 MKII. Can't remember the difference in diameter, tho.

Which diameter do your new piston have (without ring)?

But this seems pretty annoying, that a 2mm bigger rod doesn't fit. :duh:

You could prepare the rods, cut 1mm away on each side, this should work.

|

V

Bad news. I've come across a setback. There has been mistake in manufacturing the conrods. The conrods' lower "eye" which attaches to the crankshaft is too wide. It's maximum outer measurement is 77mm, whereas the cylinder's bore is 75mm... So, without grinding 1mm off of each rods' "cheeks" they wont fit into cylinders. :tsktsk:

I sent them back to be machined, let's see the outcome...

but the conrods lower eye doesnt go into the cylinders during the cycle - that would mean the crankshaft would also go into the cylinder during rotation, which is impossible.

I know. That's not the problem.

That's why I was wondering if he confused rod / piston. :winky:

I think they wanted to put the piston with rod from the top into the block, which would be the easiest way

to install internals.

You don't need to remove the crank shaft. :winky:

That's the easiest AND hardest way at the same time, because it's the ONLY way to put the piston and rod into the cylinder. And the crank shaft is already removed as is everything else as well, because the engine has been totally dis-assembled for the machining.

So now they will have to put them in from bottom, means remove the engine, remove crank shaft, put the internals in the block, install the crank shaft and close the lower eye from rod to crank.

It cannot be done that way. The crank shaft bearing housings (I don't know the correct term, sorry) are on the way. Because the distance between two crank shaft bearing housings is less than the bore of the block, the piston doesn't have enough room to fit from the bottom.

And the bearing housings are also the reason why it cannot be put together in such a way that the piston is put from the top and the rod from the bottom, because the piston doesn't go deep enough for the piston pin to be put into place...

Hope this helps to get a picture of the problem in hand.

Guess you meant the pistons?!?

Don't know if you would be happy with 75mm conrods?!? :shutit:

This is bad, hope they will fix that problem for free.

No, I meant the CONRODS.

Bad news. I've come across a setback. There has been mistake in manufacturing the conrods. The conrods' lower "eye" which attaches to the crankshaft is too wide. It's maximum outer measurement is 77mm, whereas the cylinder's bore is 75mm... So, without grinding 1mm off of each rods' "cheeks" they wont fit into cylinders. :tsktsk:

I sent them back to be machined, let's see the outcome...

I'm fascinated about the idea to use the IS300 final gear ratio of 3.7:1 (compared to the std 4.3) in my IS200. As my car is T/C'd, under boost the gears seem too short, and especially the 1st gear is next to useless. With F/I the long gears won't be such a handicap, rather an advantage... With longer final drive I wouldn't have to go for 3rd gear to hit 100km/h (or 62mph as you are used to... :winky: ), and the engine wouldn't rev through the 1st gear in milliseconds as it does now. (Well, not atmo, as my engine is still being rebuild as some of you know... )

So, how would I source one of these IS300 final ratios, and if I do find one, how do I calibrate the speedo to show the right speed?

Hope those in the know step forward!

And which ECU? Stand-alone (Motec, Haltech, etc) or "piggy-back" (e.g. Greddy eManage)? IMO the trickiest part is not the "mechanics" (turbos, pistons, rods, manifolds), but instead the hard-to-crack Toyota electronics...

Thank you for the kind words, gentlemen! :)

And if I find that the output is not enough, the exhaust manifold flanges are done such a way, that one size bigger turbos are a bolt-on job. Two pieces of those 04's should be enough to put out figures starting with 5...

Yessssss! :)

Let's PM next week, now I'm off to finnish woods for the weekend with my buddies to have a little paintball war...

OK, I just might get my baby back up and running still this summer... :winky:

All the parts are now back from the workshop, but the engine still needs to be put back together. :duh:

What goes in:

- ROSS Racing forged turbo use pistons

- overbored block for the .5 oversize pistons

- forged H-profile conrods

- forged, straightened and balanced crankshaft

- JUN lightened flywheel

- Helix clutch

All the moving and revolving parts have been balanced to within 0.1g tolerance, also the valve seats have been radiused for better sealing.

After the brake-in (and MOT), in goes also a thicker custom made laser cut headgasket (to lower the compression ratio from 10:1 to little under 9:1 (I have a few spare ones if someone is interested PM me)) and bigger injectors, and then MOOOORE BOOOOOOOOSTT!!!! :D With this setup I'm after for something like ~350hp.

I'll try to take some pictures when I get to the engine rebuilding -part.

The topic basically says it all, anyone in the know? I have a LHD, and from my point of view, my handbrake lever is on the "wrong" side of the center console. I'd like to have it nearer to me (=on the left side of the console). IF they are interchangeable, does anyone have a spare RHD console + some possibly needed brakets needed for the installation? I guess the lever itself must be the same for LHD and RHD...

#Sami

500 bhp from the 1g-fe never in a million years (unless you spend bucket loads of dosh) and there is the block (which no one has mentioned yet) will not take it IMHO

all the big power producing engines made by toyota end in GTE (FE is for fuel economy) if you want 500 bhp I suggest you follow Mr Clawley...trying it on the 1g-fe will end in tears and a big credit card bill.

I reckon 300/320 bhp is about it (plus a shot of NOS for a short duration)

It's a cast iron block, so why shouldn't it take it?

In Toyota language the letters after the dash (ie. -GTE, -FE) determine all the "extras" of the engine, and take no stand about the block itself. It's the letters _before_ the dash which determines the block.

For example:

1 G - F E

| | | |

| | | V

| | | Fuel injection (vs. carburetor)

| | V

| | "Economy head" (=narrower valve angle)

| V

| Block "family"

V

Revision number of the block within the block family

So:

1G-FE and 1G-GTE share the same block. And as you said, 1G-GTE is concidered as a "big power" engine. The diference between these two engines is in the head (and the turbo charger of course). The Toyota engine codes are explained HERE.

So there's no reason why -FE wouldn't take it, if -GTE does...

Provided one has lowered C/R (to prevent detonation), forged internals, correct fuelling, and a smart enough ECU, after that the power output is dependant of the used turbo and boost. I see no reason why 1G-FE couldn't reach the 500hp barrier? And that's not so much more expensive than breaking the 300hp barrier.

Personally I think that the use of NOS would be even more harmful to the engine (block) than the effect of the turboing, because the effect of the NOS is much more sudden than the turbo boost, which takes time to build up. Makes sense?

At all.... what do you wanna do with 400+ horses on that closed ratio gears as in the IS200.

A sensefull investment would be for another gearbox, as this for the Supra... but I don't wanna do that conversion.

For the factory gearbox you would anyway have to lower boost in 1st-2nd gear.

And at higher speed it will be a short fun to get only 140mph max speed.

The car will get those 140mph in a few seconds, but then.... fun is over.

So in my opinion any other HP over 350-400 is money-wasting. ;)

I already have troubles with traction at launching in 1st gear.

Also in 2nd gear I can do wheel spin on dry asphalt. :duh: and this is with ~250-260BHP

What do you think will happen with 350-400?? :o

Or even with 500....

....senseless.... :shutit: ....and not to say about crushing the transmission.

This is more expensive than a crushed engine.

That close ratio gearing is a "problem", indeed. There are options for altering the drive ratio, but they all seem even shorter than the IS std. And I'm talking about the final drive ratio now. TRD makes - if I'm not mistaken - few optional ratios which have longer 1st and 2nd gear, but shorter final drive. That would help a little. I'm also investigating the option of using Toyota Hiace final ratio / rear axle. They've succesfully been used in 800-1200hp drag strip cars. Even in Supras, I think. Although even the most powerful Hiace only has about 150hp, their drive line REALLY can take the abuse.

I can name a bunch of ppl who think all this is stupid and a waste of money, and sure this nibbling of ours can be put under question, but everyone to their own. IMO it's not necessarily the top speed, but how fast you get there... You can't use top speeds of over 200km/h anywhere except on some roads in Germany. It's unusable speed even on most of the race tracks, so for me we just have to content to the "traffic lights grand prix" :P My point is that the final drive ratio of the IS200 isn't such a problem after all.

@ad77:

500hp out of 1G-FE shouldn't be a trick, provided you have lowered C/R, forged internals, adequate fuelling and a talented ECU (and a tuner). My friend has build a Golf MK4 1,8T with 550hp...

But as RR said, it's also not the most power you can make, but the driveability (and how you put the power to the ground), and the all-in-all package.

Spock was pushing for 300bhp when his went. He also didn't have the same fuelling setup either. If I can remember correctly he had a 5th injector fitted in the air intake which does work but is not the ideal solution for precise mapping. I will be going no higher than 280bhp no matter what, which should be fine with the right fuelling.

Mark (TDI) I THINK also said he has seen an IS running 0.8bar with no probs. I shouldn't need 0.8bar to get 280bhp either.

The best dynoed result was 287hp/370Nm @ .7bar. And I did NOT melt a piston, it was a rod that broke.

Yes, I have a 7th (not 5th ) injector, but now along with the rebuild, I'm also upgrading the main-injectors. And also yes, I have a twin-turbo setup.

At the moment I have 0hp @ 0rpm, as my engine is torn into bits and bobs. But when I get it up and running with the uprated internals and lowered C/R, I'm going for the 350-400 region. That's about as much as those KKK 03 turbo's are good for. But the manifold is fabricated in such a way, that +1 size bigger turbo's are a "bolt-on job". Then I'll be looking for the 500hp barrier...