Scarlet Pimpernell

This will get on to some peoples goat, but....I just completed a journey of 235 miles, 85% motorway, at the same speeds as I did in the Lexus, and guess what? OBC shows 46.3mpg, and at the pumps of 44.5mpg. So that means approx 8mpg more than the old IS220d - which was only giving me 35-37.5mpg according to the trip computer (!) on the identical regular run. It's all the proof I ever needed taht something wasn't right with the Lexus, and am now sure of the decision to jump ship... Just need to remind you all that my current car is a 3.0l 6 cylinder Auto diesel and was fully loaded (5 people and a boot (520litres) full of junk) and is heavier than the IS...someone will surely tell me soon that the lexus is much cleaner :shutit: and that for the extra cash I paid for the car I could have bought a tanker full of diesel... Sorry for gloating, but whilst some of you guys carry on kidding yourselves and shoving DPS4 and other stuff in, the rest of the world enjoys normal diesel economy! And there is NO RATTLES and the road noise is almost gone - peace at last! In fact 80% of the time the beemers rides as quietly on a motorway on normal surfaces as the lex did on billiard table smooth fresh tarcmac - it's that much quieter. Looking at it constructivly, someone over at the ivory tower might see this post as trying to help Lexus improve the cars...well guys here's the bench mark!

Tell that to the Audi R10 :P Yeah but...that's a racing car, not a standard ports car!! That R10 is awesome...and Audi still make incredible road diesels too...

I originally wanted the base 220d with MM back in Dec 2005, and after one test drive/close look decided to spend the extra £3k odd to get the leather and lumbar support (but of course it had the bigger wheels, vented seats etc). Just wish I'd gone for the 250 Auto instead then - I might still have a Lexus if I had... Without the MM system the centre console looks all so confusing and as some have stated previously a bit like a late 1980's Microwave or Technics HiFi, IYKWIM!!

I saw a White one in Leicester, on the A563 last week. Boy it looks "tall", not at all squat and wide as I expected it to be. In the pictures, the front wings look like TCC cars, but in reality they look tame. May be the white colour didn't complement it. In fact, it decidedly looked as though it could do with even wider flared arches and more grounding/lowering. It just looked too much like a normal IS to me and didn't stand out at all. Any one else noticed that?

The wheels are standard SE/SE-L Wheels, so they don't really make the car look any different. The kit is too subtle in my view to have a credible claim that it compares in any way to an ISF, even from a looks perspective. If you want the sporty car, go for the pukka Sport model, with the lowered suspension and 18" wheels it's much more convincing.

Just drive a diesel without a Turbo, and you'll see how important Torque is! the Turbo helps in that area like u won't beleeeeeve. It's a combo between Torque, gearing and BHP, which is why a petrol sports car would be quicker!

Just drive a diesel without a Turbo, and you'll see how important Torque is! the Turbo helps in that area like u won't beleeeeeve

Is this really true? Has anyone actually had the bits removed and inspected them?

Run flats are now increasingly common on BMW models as standard fitment. We all know that run flats make for a very harsh ride (when compared to ride on regular tyres). The models that don't have runflats, are the expensive, luxury models such as 750, M5 and M6. AFAIK, models such as the 330, 545, 645, and 650 are on runflats. Vyker's new 330 has them, and he said the ride is harsh over any bump. Congrats on the 5 series. The previous E39 model was hailed as the "world's best car" when it came out (best as in it's overall blend of space, refinement, handling, ride, build, performance and value for money). The E60 seems to be better than the E39 by all accounts. Maneesh/Parthiban - you are correct - those Run Flats have been a problem. However, the Post Jul 07 LCI (LifeCycleImpulse) seems to ride so much better, even with RF 245/40 18's all round. Dare I say, it bounces less than the IS due to the longer wheelbase and the jitterriness is gone. Even at low speeds, you can't really tell it's on RF's at all. It's firm, yes, but no firmer than the IS and you can't feel every piece of gravel like you could in the pre 2007 M sports or even 5 SE's with 18's RF's. They really have done a good job in removing that single dreaded issue which put me off the 320d in 2005. It was the one thing I watched out for on the test drives over and above even the economy, iDrive or rattles... You can tell an LCI model as it has the new Auto shift, up-turned lower grill edges on SE's (around the fog lights on SE's, not M Sport) and the Angel "Wings" rear LED lights. I'd driven loads of E39's, and they were very good. In fact I think they still ride and handle exceptionally well, even better than a current E Class! The Build quality was sound. The only other thing that I do miss are those big folding mirrors on the IS...they were brilliant! The Beemers are like letter box's. The leather (Dakota) is pretty good so far, comfortable and not "shiny" like the Lexus leather, and you don't sit too low in the seat squab. Anyway, enough for now...this is a Lexus forum!!!!

Well guys - what can I say? For those who stated that they are interested, read on. THIS IS NOT for the Lexsqueamish! The 5 is in a different league altogether! The more I drive it the more I realise that I've finally gone back "home" to Bavaria again. It is more comparable to a GS in size etc, but for the money it's a no brainer...new IS or a slightly used 5 series...no competition there at all! OK - the Satnav is OK, but not brilliant, the iDrive is fine once you start to use the voice commands and combine the idrive and voice (then it becomes a joy to use) - but the biggest benefit of all is the drive. That's what BMW's are about and this is as good as it will ever get. It only has 17bhp more than the IS220d, but all I can say is wow! It absolutely flies! You really cannot tell it's a diesel at all, even when you cain it, and it has so much low down torque. The auto box too is really good and perfectly matched. the sports seats are firm and supportive and the steering spot on! Every switch is where you want it. Fuel economy hovers currently around 27mpg - town only driving and 80%gentle, 20% smiley stuff. For a 3 litre Auto it's pretty good! Incidentally that is identical to the IS in my hands driven 100% gentle..... The standard stereo is surprisingly good unless you push the volume up too high. I do miss the rear camera though. The optical PDC in the Beemer is very good, but nothing beats a good camera! The MLS is something I miss too overall. But that's all I really miss! I can even live without touch screen, Smart access and vented seats despite the humid weather! The 5 has NO rattles or squeaks at all - I mean ZERO - in fact it is cathedral quiet inside just as I had expected! Much quieter than the IS and I reckon given the M sport tyres on 18" rims, similar to the GS from a rgular ambience perspective. BUT - there is almost zero road noise in the beemer - wheres the GS does have some on rough roads.... That is the most defining feature. No matter what surface - the ride remains very very quiet and actually smoother than the pre 2007 5's. They tweaked the suspension last year and it is a changed machine. Even with M Sport suspension and ultra low profiles. Overall it is head and shoulders above the IS, and better than the GS - only because of the steering and handling. It truly is flybytheseat stuff. So far so good!

DIY only - with paintwork being so soft nowadays, why would you let anyone else do it? All the grit held in an old Mit, autowash brush is like sandpapering your pride and joy. Remember - even the best hand wash places are trying to get through as many cars as possible, so they don't clean fill soap buckets etc. They just push grit around from one car to another, then rub it in with Old Chamois's. I don't even trust the Lexus car wash clubs, and insist I clean my own car after servcing!! Why do people use a jet wash to clean a road car in the summer? It makes no difference and only wastes water. It can destroy the rubber seals, tyres walls etc... All you need as mentioned above are 2 buckets, a simple hosepipe, a couple of Microfibres (never a Chamois) and 1 hour of your own time twice a month... The flash "autodry" is excellent (rest of the kit is rubbish). Just make sure you clean your silicon blade with a microfibre (if using one) after each swipe...any grit on the blade will leave scars behind!!

Cheers guys - appreciated. Swager - I looked at all combo's - SE's, M Sports etc, 17"-19" wheels, and the ride actually isn't that bad in a 5 ser, even with the Mixed 19" alloys. With a new model around the corner there are loads of LCI models to choose from - manufuactured post Jul'07. Just avoid the 4 cylinder diesel - it's not bad, but it doesn't have the awesome grunt of the 6 cylinders...though it is economical and avoid the ones without shiny Auto lever (i.e. pre LCI) - again they are not bad, but the LCI ones are the last incarnation and will hold values better. Also - spec is all important - Media, Leather and Auto are mandatory if you want to gt a decent price back!! And yes - it is so easy to make a 525d into a 530d!! Just a remap! I have done lots of homework this time - didn't want a new model, and wanted a car I could keep long term. The 5 series seems to hit on all scores. I will be coming back here to see how you all are, and post every now and again. Take care guys, and thanks for all your help, threads, posts, frustrations (at me) etc. Nothing personal ever intended or taken - like everyone else here, all I wanted to do was make sure we got the dealers and Lexus to sort things out. At times people thought I was being negative too often, but sometimes you need a balance in order the odd heckle keeps the status quo. I think they are almost there now with the 57 plate 220d and onwards - so good luck to you all. I will have some fond memories of the IS - and take a glancing look as each one goes by, 'cos I still think it's one of the best VFM cars arpound, and the best looking. Ironically I've gone from the best looking car to the pig ugliest....!! Au Revoir (or should I be saying Auf Wiedersen??)!!

I thought you had to stick to the recommended sizes only, as the circumeference will change and so will your spedo accuracy, trip computer etc, and you could find yourself inadvertantly breaking the speed limit!! 255/45 will mean that the circumference will increase, therefore effectively changing the "gearing" and final drive too. By what percentage I don't know. You probably need to get that slide rule and Pythagoras's Theorem books out :winky: EDIT in this case, could you not be creating a situation where you are going faster than the speedo says (thereby effectively under reading)?

Actually the torque is very important, and is the only thing that makes driving diesels attractive. Normally you get full thrust at low revs, whereas on a petrol car, certainly VVTi ones you have drop a gear (manually or kickdown) and let the revving deliver the performnce. With good torque, you just hit the pedal! I'm also sure that the 220d with 177bhp, if driven in the correct gear would accelerate from 50-80 much quicker than a 250 with 200+ bhp. reason? Torque... It was one of the reasons why Michael Scumacher was able to beat the Williams with his Renault in the early/mid 90's - especially on the twistier tracks.... Less power, fewer cylinders (V8 compard to V10's), but much better torque... But overall I agree - the 250 Auto all the way!!

...which is why I didn't buy a new car this time... ;-) - so much for Lexus holding their value better than most. The depreciation alone was £420odd per month....golly gosh! All that VAT etc, and from next year the first year Tax will also add to extra depreciation... The point I'm making is that if anyone gets a PEX price, please make sure you're getting some payback for the MM/MLS.

Part of the joy of a proper diesel is the sheer driveability. The torque is so useful when overtaking, and actually adds to the enjoyment of driving. I know some people like diesels purely for economy's sake, but there are many people who love the thrill of the torque, the way you zip past lorries on A roads etc...and at the same time get excellent economy... We say that an Auto 220d might have been good, but not with that massive flat spot. I dread to think what the torque converter would have made of it....

Cheers mate. I did have a long hard look at the quality of the interior and compard to the new IS (and GS), it appears to have a better consistency of materials used. It's well put together and not as "where's my money gone" 3 series, inspite of being over 5 years old into production now. The quality is at least as good as the Lexus IMHO. The only things that are a slight downer on the 5 over the G2 IS are the resolution of the screen on the Satnav. It's a bit like that of the earlier GS300's, grainy, but it's OK. As long as it gets me there I'll be happy!! The sound system is a bit feeble too!! The seats are incredibly comfortable though - firm and supportive in true germanic style. The boot is 520litres compared to the 375 of the Lex, but as I mentioned, it's the next size up!! And rear leg room is massive!! The fact that I won't have touch screen is the biggest worry!! The iDrive is a bit daunting, but people tell me it's like using a mouse...Yeah...right! Famous last words... I'll come back and let you know more once it arrives.

You might want to have word with a "Chips away" type company. They are really good, and even if they can't do the whole car, they might just be able to do some of the panels for £50-80 each...might save you a bit of cash and they can do a really good job.... Jealousy...that's what it is...hope it gets sorted soon buddy... How about insurance? PM Saracen - I seem to recall his IS was done over a couple of years ago...

I'll make the odd guest appearance now and again It's a great passionate forum. The best I've ever come across for anything!! The BMW ones are like a ghost town....

Well, after almost 2.5 very eventful years it's time to go. All the issues with economy, rattles etc have left a sad glint in my eye. Not to say that ditching the car 3.5 years ahead of schedule hasn't cost us £000's in real cash too. But alas we couldn't carry on. Lets not go there! The looming Credit crunch has created some good deals and you can push dealerships beyond the norm - both on purchase price/cost to change and finance options. What did we look at? I didn't want the new A4 - dodgy driving position and it' too new - I don't want to be pathfinding issues again IS250 - considered it for a few minutes, but the dealership didn't really come up with a good enough deal UNTIL the BMW dealer asked the Lex dealer (Same group) to buy mine off them - then they panicked and upped the PEX price by £1000 - amazingly rang me whilst I was trying to negotioate a price on a prospective purchase! The thought of squeaks and rattles in the usual places put me off...I'd forever be looking out for them! also - I need to take delivery immediately....so that meant 08 MY, not the 09. The deal was just not good enough overall. Merc C Class - still too new and I hate the saggy rear end 3 series - facelifted one with newer idrive seems really good, but it would mean a brand new one or keep the Lexus for another 6 months and buy an ex-demo. Well I couldn't wait! SO what did we buy? Well...it's not Japanese. I'm afraid it's a German again, and not in the same category as the IS/Compact exec cars. 57 plate. We went one size bigger so you can't really compare it to the 220d - other than to say it's 6 Cylinder Diesel, 3.0l, Automatic and is more economical than the IS220d! It's a 525d M Sport Auto with Leather, Media, Privacy glass tc etc. It's the new LCI model and has the flybywire gears etc and all teethers in the iDrive are aparently resolved. No one who I know with one/IDrive since 2006 have an issue - so fingers are crossed! It's done less than 5000 miles, list price was £40k, is virtually mint and cost the same as the discounted IS250 SE/MM Auto...A few of these exist in the wider family (523-535d) so I sort of knew what to expect!! On the test drive it showed 40mpg and I wasn't hanging about. That's more than I've seen on the IS220d for a year now!! Even with a 5-10% error in the calculations, the sheer performance of the auto box and max torque delivered from just 1300RPM makes the 525d quick!! I also know first hand that a 535d can achieve 40-42MPG on a run, so I'm expecting mid to high 40's. So it just leaves me to say a big THANK YOU and good bye... Scarlet Pimp (AKA Jamboo)

I love the latest Lexus Mag. It goes on about how they make sure no car is built with a known problem!! It's hilarious! I'd heard in Jan 06, before I ordered mine that the early cars had rattles. I asked my dealer to make sure that mine was built with any bfixes applied on the production line...an assurance was given by the dealership, but guess what?...even now, after 2.5 years and 8 remedial visits it still rattles, quite badly in the heat!! It won't be a problem later this week after it's gone, but boy it's been a rattly old car! All that stuff about 2 visits and then "Lex Tech get involved" never happened... It'll need someone with much more patience than me to get it sorted out properly. I've decided to chuck in the provrbial towel.

Guys - been car shopping (more to follow). Please be warned. The Glass's/CAP guide quote the same PEX values for a 220d SE with and without MM. It is an error in the valuation. So if any of you are about to do as I'm doing then please get the garage to check the valuations and vrify that you are getting something for the MM. It add's approx £750 to value of the Standard SE/SEL/Sport, and £500 to base models (or so I was told). Just to give you an idea of how little the IS is worth in it's 3rd year, I have had PEX values as low as £13500 for mine - 06 220d SE, Met paint, 20k, MM system, always garaged, paint treated, one owner and totally mint. It's already lost 50% of the value at worst case...best figure I've had is £16000, but of course it' all in the cost to change!! It currently books at £14350 according to Glass's, then add £750 for MM, £250 for Met paint - so that is £15350...but like I say - cost to change is important!!

Look at the official figures Jamboo, the 0-62 mph times are from a standing start...! Just face it the IS220D is not quicker and is inferior to the petrol version in everything but fuel consumption. What I should have said clearly (and not merely implied) is that on a rolling start or coming out of a bend moving the IS220d will be quicker. IF you get the gearing right the mid range acceleration is awesome - it has the same torqu figure as a Porsche Carrera (295lb's/ft) - no IS250 will catch it and I'm pretty sure of that (though haven't tested them side by side). You are right however - From a standing start the poor gearing in 1st and 2nd in the diesel and narrow delivery lw down (2000-3600RPM) means the 250 will rev higher and deliver the power at 4500+RPM will always be quicker on a sprint... So round a track it could be perilously close...the offical figures are merely sprint figures....

This thread sums it all up. The cars are pretty middle of the road from a performance perspective now and no one will disagree on that (me thinks). They stand head and shoulders above everything from a looks and VFM perspective. Again many will not disagree with that. So what do we disagree or have such a split on? The diesel... Fuel economy, emissions control systems, gearing and some cars having rattles and squeaks...and the 250 Auto suffers from much less problems. Time to move on guys!!!! Janey will be along soon to close this I reckon...it's all getting uncomfortably personal...and I wasn't involvd!!!

I posted something similar when I first drove the 2 variants nearly 2.5 years ago. Round a twisty track the 220d could edge over a 250 it 'cos of the extra torque. On long straights however the 250 would win due to the extra topspeed/higher revs/more BHP further up the rev band of the petrol as opposed to the narrow power band of the diesel... The very high gearing of gears 1 and 2 in the diesel make it a bit of a nonsense. Most diesels are like this, but the IS seems to show it more... I also think that due to the narrow power band of the diesel, the non-sport oiler might be faster coming out of bends where it stays in the "Torquey sweet Spot" a tad longer. From a standing start the sport diesel would be quicker!! And Tango - yes indeed you do need a new fresh driving style for the 220d, regardless of how many miles you've covered in a diesel previously! I still haven't mastered mine! I too have covered 140000 miles plus in oilers...