Roger Bill

Interesting parallels with fly by wire systems. Used in commercial aircraft to achieve smoother and safer flight and in military fighters with airframes designed on the limits to achieve maximum manoeuvrability which are virtually impossible to fly without the reaction speed of computerised control systems. These systems are generally very, very good but there are occasions when they have gone wrong typically when the pilot gets into a fight with the system. Air France AF296 and AF447 are two cases widely discussed online.

These fly by wire systems are much more than just power assisted flight controls. Similarly true steer by wire systems would be capable of much more than an electronic alternative to hydraulic power assisted steering.

Compared with drive by wire systems in a car aircraft fly by wire systems have two key advantages. First planes don't operate in such a conjested, variable and unpredictable environment. Secondly the costs of aircraft systems are enormous compared with anything comparable in the automotive industry. For these same reasons motor sport is leading the commercial automotive sector in this technology.

Disclaimer: I've no experience of designing fly by wire systems. These are just some rambling thoughts based upon my experience of designing and developing CADCAM software.

My first four cars didn't have power steering. The main drawback I found with the first car I had with power steering was not getting that light feeling when the road was icy. Power assisted steering systems have certainly improved but I think still lack some of the feel of a direct, unassisted setup. I can imagine that, if done well, a steer by wire system could provide better feedback as power to the wheels would be separate from the part of the system providing feedback to the steering wheel. It also gives the designers the opportunity to add features like accentuating the feel of tyres losing grip due to ice or taking a corner too fast. I'm just guessing as I've particular knowledge of these systems and I'm possibly not explaining this very well.

I believe a standard round system will be an option. It's an option I'd certainly select as like @ColinBarber I vary my hand positions on long drives and when parking I twirl the wheel in a way that I think would be less pleasant with a yoke.

The yoke reminds me a little of the quartic steering wheel in my ex-wife's Austin Allegro 😊

3 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

Dealers don't really get early visibility into a lot of the detail unfortunately. The screen upgrade is really a given, Lexus has been implementing this on their other vehicles at launch/facelift.

Fortunately I'm able to hang fire on placing an order until details of the facelift are available. I'm far too fussy and particular about certain features so I wouldn't be very comfortable ordering something of an unknown quantity. While new models and facelifts do normally improve on what has gone before, there have been exceptions where I bought an obsolete model in preference to the latest, more expensive offering.

1 hour ago, Navnan2 said:

Hoping my order will arrive with the facelift but sad if the CD player is removed. Yea I know I'm old.

Would be worth checking with the dealer. The facelift might include other changes and features in the various trim levels might also alter.

5 minutes ago, Charli Alder said:

Had Lexus Cambridge contact me this week. They asked if I was interested in changing my MY70 UX for the upgraded model due out about August. The upgrade would have a touch sceen and the touch pad replaced with seat heater switches. Also cd player gone.

Thanks Adrian for posting this info. Very interesting, sounds like an upgrade that's worth waiting for.

On 4/20/2022 at 6:32 PM, Deb444 said:

Just got an update for my Lexus fsport ordered end of January. Original delivery quoted end of May, new date is 15th August ☹️

There are rumours of a midlife facelift due around August - October. Assembly line would be stopped to implement the changeover but 2.5 months seems a long time just for facelift changes. Certainly worth asking your dealer if this is a reason for your car being delayed and, if so, whether yours will be a facelift model. Also if you can discover any details about the facelift changes I would be very interested as I'm currently hanging fire on ordering a UX.

Sorry, didn't get the quote inserted correctly reposted below.

5 hours ago, ALAW said:

Wouldnt suprise me if there is a plug in as well.

Could be interesting, subject to price of course! Also providing the extra batteries  didn't encroach on boot space - might be possible if higher power density batteries are now available.

8 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

No, the price list is effectively the full brochure for the UX250h.

I agree the price list does contain a lot of detail, although only a few photos. However, when I last looked a couple of months ago there was both a brochure (mostly photos and only limited specification detail) and price list for the UX250h. Also there is a brochure available to download for every other model Lexus sells in the UK.

Just noticed on the www.lexus.co.uk website that there's no longer an option to download a brochure for the UX250h. There are options to download a UX250h price list and a brochure for the UX 300e. I wonder if this is evidence of a midlife facelift coming down the tracks.

When I ordered a IS250 back in 2009 the dealer had plenty of notice of the forthcoming facelift so they could let customers know details of the changes they'd see when their cars were delivered. I got a document detailing the changes (can't remember whether it was a photocopy the dealer gave me or whether it was something I downloaded from the internet). I cars ordered now won't arrive before August/September

According to a Lexus Facebook Group post a mid-life update for the UX is rumoured for August 2022. The timing seems about right for Lexus product life cycles. I expect it's too early for any details but I think it's something to watch out for.

I bought an IS250 in 2009 and was glad to have waited for the facelift improvements. Can't remember the details but I'm fairly sure the changes weren't just a few styling tweaks.

I can't imagine the UX will get a touch infotainment screen like that in the new NX as that would surely require a major redesign of the dashboard.

Thanks Bill, I've had electric seats in my last four cars and, like you, am a little surprised that many of the UX models don't. I've got used to the fine adjustments provided and being able to regularly tweak the seat position on long journeys does help my back. Also I got the impression that the Takumi seats might be a little better shaped or padded than the manual ones but I might well be mistaken.

A couple of weeks ago I had a two hour test drive in a UX 250h premium pack. Unfortunately I found the seats didn't suit my back. The electric seats in the Takumi have more adjustment options and based on just a few minutes sitting in one they did seem more comfortable. I realise seat comfort is very much a personal choice but I wonder if anyone has had the opportunity to compare manual and electric UX seats over an hour or two of driving?

For various reasons the F Sport isn't really an option for me.

14 hours ago, EvilRacer329 said:

Now that's interesting...myself and others have found the Bridgestone Turanza run-flat tyres to be quite noisy...which tyres did yours come with?

Nick

I've read that UX's with 18" wheels are supplied with either Bridgestone or Dunlop run flat tyres. Owners and the tyre data suggest Dunlops are quieter than Bridgestone.

I don't keep detailed records of fuel consumption, but general impressions:

The mpg on all 13 cars I've owned has typically dropped c10% during the winter months irrespective of mileage. During the pandemic my annual mileage has dropped to 3,000 whereas for a number of years I did up to ten times that. 

But my first tank of E10 did also seem to coincide with a drop in consumption - I'm reserving judgement on the effects of E10 vs E5. 

4 hours ago, EvilRacer329 said:

I hope this is the same with the F-Sport models, as I was unable to get a straight answer from my dealer. My F-Sport Premium Pro is all-black inside, so I ordered my new F-Sport Takumi with the "Ivory" interior. I'm hoping I'll be getting the white headliner with that one too...

Nick

If the configurator pictures on lexus.co.uk are correct, the headlining appears to be black for all F Sport seat colours.

10 hours ago, EvilRacer329 said:

I love the space inside the bigger cars, but squeezing their bulk around other cars on narrow country roads is harrowing... I like the cosy, compact driving position and rarely carry more than one other passenger. At the higher trim level I purchased mine in it's a lovely vehicle, and having looked at a number of other brands recently with my partner no other manufacturer comes close for build quality.

I'm honestly staggered anyone ever finds a parking spot such an excessively large vehicle would fit in. But then I like small cars, and consider the second-row seats in my UX to be a wasteful extravagance most of the time. Each to their own.

My position is the same. I want the features, quality, comfort and luxury of larger vehicles in a smaller package. I recognise there is is a premium price to be paid for this and that makes it a more difficult specification for the car companies to sell.

Quote

8 hours ago, ALAW said:

I dont think there was a problem with reliability Roger the car didnt fail. It just wouldnt give more power when asked. Surely this must be an engine management thing Lexus have incorpurated into the 300e. Maybe one of our members will come on and confirm something to the likes ?

Hi @ALAW Good point. I believe some engine management systems are programmed to react to a partial failure by switching to a limp home mode which is designed to protect components from further damage. In the footage which was broadcast on TV no mention was made of any warning messages or lights shown in the instrument panel. This sounds potentially dangerous, for example, if a sudden loss in power occured part way through an overtake. The impression I got from the TV footage was that the car had only travelled maybe 2 or 3 times round the test track which would be only around a mile long. I can't imagine the engine management system would need to be programmed to substantially reduce power after only 5 miles or so of high speed running. Wouldn't be good on unrestricted German autobahns 😊 I'm just guessing based on limited knowledge and information shown on TV. It's interesting to ponder and theorise but I do think it's something which deserves some explanation from Lexus.

I would guess there was a problem with the car on the day the programme was made as I'm sure during development Lexus would have done high speed testing over much longer distances and in higher temperature environments. 

6 hours ago, ALAW said:

Anyone see the latest Fifth gear recharged programme. They had  a run off test on the track between an Audi Q4 etron and the 300e. When the 300e was run they seemed to like the quietness and handling but when put under accelaration it lost power. So they put it in the so called pits took it out again and it failed again loss of power when asking for more accelaration. Wouldnt reccomend they said. Wonder if any of you saw this. I watched it again tonight think it was on Dmax channel earlier in week i thought it was on quest.

I saw the programme on Quest 8pm Thursday 13th. To have a serious problem like that shown on TV surely deserves a response from Lexus. You would think they'd want to provide an explanation in order to protect their enviable reputation for reliability. I wonder if anyone from Lexus monitors posts on this forum. 

Thanks @Catflap for spotting that. Very timely as I've got an appointment to see the new NX this week.

I'd actually prefer 2WD but the features I want are in the Premium Plus Pack which, if the new price list is correct, is only available on the AWD. Even before this price increase the NX was above my budget but thought I'd stretch it if I really liked the new NX. Now I think I'll either go for a UX Takumi or wait until used examples of the new NX start to hit the market.

The UX Takumi price has also increased but only by £400. 

https://www.lexus.com/content/dam/lexus/documents/brochures/models/2022/MY22-Lexus-NX-Brochure.pdf

The USA brochure for the 2022 NX available to download.

10 hours ago, Charli Alder said:

Thought you might be interested. Had a UX 300e as a loaner when my MY70 250h was in having the bank1 O2 sensor replaced. Impressed with the 300e rolling noise much quieter with Michelin tyres than the Bridgestones on the 250h. As a matter of interest charge the 300e for two hours via the 13amp lead and this put 20miles on the cars range. Shame the overall range of 196 miles is so low compared to the competition.

Also a shame the O2 sensor failed so soon.

I have read that Lexus sometimes fit Dunlop runflats and that they are quieter than the Bridgestones which seem to be fitted on most UXs. But none of the 300e models are fitted with run flat tyres unlike all other UX models with 18 inch wheels. Even now run flat tyres have improved, I believe they still generate more noise possibly due to their stiffer sidewalls. 

Sadly not. White headlining is only available with rich cream or ochre leather on either takumi or premium plus or cobalt with white on the premium plus pack.

11 hours ago, Herbie said:

11 hours ago, Roger Bill said:

Why don't auto manufacturers include dash cams as an integral part of their cars in the same way as we now have come to expect built in sat nav, hands free phones, parking cameras and sensors?

I'm glad they don't.

Inbuilt things tend to go out of date or maybe aren't very good in the first place. If it went faulty, probably the whole roof lining would need to be dismantled to get at it and so on - and it would no doubt cost a fortune.

No, I'm happy to have my own choice on dashcams  

I was thinking that an integrated dash cam function could share the same cameras as the rear parking camera and either the front parking camera and/or the camera used for traffic sign recognition. Also as side impacts account for 30% or so of crashes, side cameras could usefully be included with an integrated system possibly sharing the panoramic parking cameras. The sat nav gps system could provide position and time data and the infotainment system could be used for the dash cam's screen, memory, power supply and a few extra menu options would complete the system. With the potential of many shared components, the additional cost could be much less than a stand alone system plus fitting.

I guess dash cams are not that different to parking cameras. I've not had any problems with the parking cameras on the couple of the cars I've had with them fitted. Also my current car is a seven year old design and the 360 degree parking cameras on the new model are not dramatically better than mine. The story with the sat nav system is rather different and in that case I would agree with your point about inbuilt systems going out of date.