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About Overland

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    Advanced Member

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  • Lexus Model
    IS300H MY2017
  • Year of Lexus
  • UK/Ireland Location
  • Interests
    Classic Cars
    General Automotive
    Motorsport & Racing
    Car Restoration

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  1. I have nothing against SUV! In fact I said that a RX would be a dream, and more than RX, my very deep dream is a Toyota Land Cruiser from the 80’s carefully restored and in a shade of color like taupe or dark brown, like a saw on the Japanese magazine dedicated of lifestyle where old LC are like gold and there’s company that restore them perfectly. My decision to not buy a NX or UX comes because I love sport style sedans and IS/RC are exactly my idea of design. Again, it is also a question of exclusivity: as the NX and UX is very common here, the big problem is to have something different, this comes from my work, as a designer, I always pay attention to this.
  2. To be honest, as my language is not clear in English, none of the solutions would work for me, even if I really appreciate you offer. E so many options, and for this I thank you so much. The big problem raise when we talk about another very important element, that is: design and, above all, exclusivity. Since I drive my IS200/250/300H I saw very very few, less that the fingers on a hand. Here in Italy, or almost in my region, that is north east side, driving a IS or a RC it’s exclusive, not for the price (lot of people here drive AUDI, BMW or MB top of the range that cost more of my IS!) but as a sign of distinction. You distinguished becase you drive an hybrid car, uncommon and of the very best qualty ever, this is something that has an intangible, but very high, value in my opinion. So, cannot imagine to drive a “normal car” the same of other hundreds of people here, like sheeps, as I am also a designer my obsession for design and details are adding problem to problem too, another reason while I found incredible they ceased to delivery in EU so beautiful sedan lime the IS. And this also the problem of SUV: if you see a Lexus in Italy, generally is a UX or NX, rarely a RX (that I really love as it is the “originator” but 3.5 are to expensive to manage in Italy for tax) very rarely a IS or RC (never seen one on the road here) and LS is almost impossible, while MC S class is very common in the rich owners of small companies around here. So at the end, these factors concour too to create a big problem in the moment of decision, as it seems that not only tangible values should be considered, but those intangible too... and in this field, Lexus is a totally winner. Not easy, not easy.
  3. To be honest as I live where they made Prosecco wine I prefer a cold glass of wine. But I have to point, that my assumption comes naturally because after three pages we talk about Tesla young manufacturer problems, but we didn’t find any solution or advice to an old and loyal Lexus customer that after two CT and four Lexus IS desperately want to stay as a customer of Lexus but, because someone else decide sedan are not trendy’s (for Lexus management only SUV are!) he should buy a ES or a SUV. I assume the alternative to Lexus is “a different Lexus”? Or a downgrade to Toyota? So at that point, if a Lexus customer should buy a Toyota why not a Peugeot or a Renault or a Opel or a Seat?
  4. Ok, the battle seems against EV’s and in particular Tesla that after only few years in the market have problem of quality. (To be honest a look over Alfa Romeo, Audi or Volvo forums show that these decennial brands have lot of problem too as a personal owner of previous German Car -VW and Audi- I would never experience what I have passed) Assumed the car manufacturer Tesla is the worst in the world and we all think that the best alternative to Lexus is Lexus, to come in topic: ”if one that does not like SUV or any mini SUV, need to replace an IS330H in EU or UK in 2020 and just say no to ES, which car has to choose for another 4 year of lease?” Always remember that the title of the topic said that IS, CT and RC will be discontinued. Based on this statement, the RC that could be a good choice, could became soon after the purchase an “out of the market car” and most probably Lexus itself would not recognize any value. So? The only choice is to buy a Diesel German car? Or a mild-hybrid or how the German call their “hybrid” engines that are eons far from the tecnology of Lexus and will never be compared to the quality of Lexus? Or a Volvo EV’s? But we sain there’s not enough charging point! So absolutely NO to Ev’s let’s continue with petrol, OK. Or maybe to pay the last payment of the lease, in my case 17.000€, instead to swap for a new car and wait to know when in Lexus would offer an IS Ev’s and continue to drive a car that every month loose is value? Any other idea?
  5. The true price is 68.500,00€ I think they would offer some discount. Anyway I will never would buy another German car, I had too much problems and would never experience the same story again. It was horrible. Lexus show me what is the meaning of reliability and exclusivity. It’s hard to think to come back to the age of problems with cars
  6. Certainly technology, for example that of touch screens, brings with it advantages and also possible problems. If we remember, Lexus intorduced the touch scoff in the IS250 and all in all it was not bad, I was able to appreciate that interface in the three years that I have driven the IS250. Then Lexus with the IS300H version switched to the current interface, with the "mouse", which I personally like very much, as I find the screen integrated in the console very nice. In the RC, RX and NX we find the touch pad, which I however found very uncomfortable. Now in the new IS MY2021 and also in the current RX we return to the touch screen and to a screen positioning very similar to Mercedes, or as if the driver had a tablet in front. Even this type of choice may not appeal to some customers. I find placing a large screen protruding so prominently into the dashboard is also a bit of a visual distraction, Honestly, I have no problem with car technology, I think I would have loved it if the LF-CC concept had become a reality. If you look at it carefully, it is incredibly beautiful, with details that show the enormous potential that Lexus would have. Returning to the topic, the dealer is "indoctrinating" me praising the ES as the next car. His argument is that for the ES Luxury version I would spend only € 65.500,00 that is about € 14.000,00 more than the full optional IS300H Luxury (sunroof and Mark Levison) that I currently drive. For his respect I have been silent, but I find this marketing idea a bit silly! € 14.000,00 is not peanuts. A TESLA Model 3 AWD "Long Range" with a "full premium" interior I would pay € 58.000,00 excluding any special initiative (ecobonus and so on, that now in Italy are given)
  7. It must certainly be said that the question of design is important but not essential in the context of the topic that focuses on alternatives (At Lexus) for those who want to switch from an IS to a new car in the next six months. All the houses could make sci-fi cockpits if they like. It would be enough to see what Lexus had thought for the concept of the IS250 which is the LF-CC: I dare say that compared to this, today's Tesla's looks outdated. Lexus presented this concept in 2012 The difference between European and Asian houses and Tesla is that while the first ones sip innovations drop by drop, always maintaining a basic "old-fashioned" approach that is understandable by all consumers, who in the vast majority do not even understand how a PC work, Tesla broke every type of approach, well aware of the type of market it was aimed at. Lexus has the exact same possibilities of creating a futuristic cockpit as other houses have, although for some reason it remains anchored to the old patterns. European houses, even in lower target cars, such as Citoren with el DS, have very beautiful, digitally advanced, much more versatile cockpits: Lexus introduced Apple Car just a couple of years ago. I am a designer who works in textiles, I work and have worked with the Japanese. Their approach is very particular: on the one hand they are very technologically advanced and create avant-garde textile products, but when it comes to translating these fabrics into clothing products, they create garments inspired by old America, outdoor like LL BEAN or Filson. I'll tell you more: although they can produce extremely high-performance fabrics, they go crazy buying old American looms to re-manufacture the obsolete fabrics of the old American industries, now almost all closed. In my opinion, this approach also applies to cars. They start with concepts that are very advanced, both in design and technology, they titillate us with wonderful ideas that we already imagine we can have in our cars. Then when the production cars come out, all these ideas are downsized, both for costs and for the real usability of the average buyer, who, in fact, would not know how to use them. Tesla starts from the exact opposite: you buy it because you REALLY WANT that technology and you accept an honestly anonymous and insignificant body design (compared to Lexus) and some quality problems, which I imagine will be solved. Even Lexus, compared to 15 years ago, now makes cars with more problems, just take a ride on the net. It is therefore no longer a question of capacity, but of will: Lexus does not want to evolve, it has not understood the market, it has not understood where it wants to go. This, of course, is what transpires to us consumers of a certain type, from their behavior, their mistakes, their botched strategies. In Italy, the customers who buy the UX and the NX (strictly the cheaper and basic versions, as my dealer tells me, that is, the majority of customers find the options offered as useless) are the customers who think that Lexus is KIA or maybe some other Korean company, they know nothing about who Lexus was. Perhaps, while we discuss this and slowly stop being Lexus customers, in Japan they are imagining incredible and very advanced things, such as to make even the Space X shuttle seem obsolete, but we will never know. At the moment I just want to understand, in a few months, what car I will have to buy to replace my IS and it seems that alternatives in the Lexus house are very few, if not zero. I worry, because I remain firmly convinced that I will never buy a German car again and certainly European houses do not attract me.
  8. About the fact that Tesla could not be good for the needs of mileage and daily use of EU market customers, I can only report the data of Italy: 2019 sold Lexus: 5.820 units 2019 sold Tesla: 2443 units (about 2000 model 3) It seems Tesla can fullfill the needs of Italian drivers in order to mobility and so on. Lexus is in Italy since 1989, in thirty years after all the investements, advertising, dealerships they arrive to sell about the double of Tesla that is in Italy from how much? Three years? Something goes wrong.
  9. I honestly don't think the question is "interstellar travel" but what kind of client there will be in the future. If we think that future customers will love the smoky rumble of petrol or diesel engines, then in my opinion, we are wrong. Perhaps today it is easy to make fun of Tesla's technology, but we must also take note that ALL the car manufacturers have accelerated strongly (and much faster than Lexus) on the technology of electric vehicles, precisely because in that of hybrid vehicles all have failed to technological level, while Lexus was the leader. It is therefore clear that they no longer looked at Lexus, but at Tesla: and they were inspired by it. We know today that the problem of autonomy is almost over. Today, most vehicles have minimalist and integrated consoles with suitable screens, Mercedes has a single global screen that includes the entire dashboard: while Tesla develops this vertically, Mercedes has developed it horizontally, but the creative matrix is the same: before of Tesla nobody had integrated the LCDs in this sense or as control units. Lexus, on the other hand, does not have any car, not even the LS with an advanced infotainment system truly connected (the "connected services", if you remember we talked about them for a long time, are totally obsolete) that allows you to know the status of the car at any time, to command it, to manage it as Tesla has and as other car manufacturers are doing, with keys that can be controlled from smartphones, management from apps and so on. Lexus launches the UX for a young segment, accustomed to more minimalist touch screens and interior design, and fills it with a thousand buttons scattered around the dashboard, with a mini screen that I had, as I said, practically the same in my early IS200 2000. I had some difficulties in orienting myself when driving. In short, I understand the irony about Tesla and the technology that revolves around it, which after decades led to a NASA mission in space by freeing the cockpit of the shuttle of old potentiometers and levers and using only two touch screens, and a pair of iPads. , fixed on the leg of the astronauts. But at the same time, as observers and customers, we cannot avoid the fact that sooner or later, like it or not, all cars will at least be like this. Even Lexus, like it or not, will have to think ... of course if it will be interested in staying on a certain type of market and maybe it is already doing it ... or maybe it will surprise us with hydrogen technologies ... nobody knows what they are doing in their laboratories What we do know is that instead they are losing a specific set of customers, including many of us here who will have to change their cars soon and can only choose between SUVs or sedans that are much more expensive than their IS. Or maybe buy an RC, as I would like, but it will probably be discontinued. Could it also be that on a marketing level this is exactly what Lexus wants, that is to cut out the "old dads" who drive a sedan and invest in the "young fashion people" who drive an SUV and only the "rich people" who can afford an ES or an LS? Who knows? Although the path of the hybrid, as far as I'm concerned, could still be widely practicable given its technological potential of which Lexus is the master, as it is now and with current technologies, in my opinion it will not lead the Japanese house anywhere and this will happen very, very soon. Probably, seeing how they are moving here in the EU and the UK, much sooner than they themselves think.
  10. It’s hard to tell, as my English is not so good, but what I feel is that Tesla have pro and cons, here in Italy it’s start to see more Tesla than IS300H as the most famous Lexus is the NX for obvious reason. I have seen and try a couple model 3 in person and to be honest I have not see all the problem told above. At the same time I was astonished by the technology. Coming back into my IS look like I come back to a car of another century. The infotainment look poor, the graphic look so old, font and resolution are very bad if you compare with Tesla. This is an important aspect I think, as many customers probably does not care this things, but there are a generation of customers that really want an evolution in technolgy in his car. If you come into a UX, if possible is even worse. All the buttons are confused (too much buttons!) the infortaiment look the same I had in the IS200 early 2000’s the only improvement is that you can have the HUD, that in the iS, event in the 2021 model, you can’t have. Said all that, the problem remain. Lexus does not inted to offer us a consisten alternative to IS in EU and UK. The possibility of a reliable full electric sedan in my opinion is very far and, after all, always remember that others car manufacturers are working hard and in some case the are now more ready than Lexus. It seems impossible to me to imagine to change for another brand, absolutely, but at the same time it’s also a non-option I start to drive a NX, forced by the commercial Dept. of Lexus/Toyota. I can’t find a solution.
  11. Thanks for your reply. I wonder what would be the logic that many of us, in the lack of a IS, as we own and we love, would be buy a Toyota. I had the same idea too. A Prius, so, to change totally. From a a luxury sedan to a basic car. I can't imagine me to be forced to buy a SUV or tu pay 70/80.000€ for a ES that it seems a car that is not born very well. It is normal? I means: we drive (n my case since 2004: IS200 Sportback, IS250, IS300H and IS300H MY2017 and two CT in family) one of the best car in the world, in a segment that is totally different of Toyota and we "go back to lower level" (let me use this words with irony!) just because Lexus decide we are not (all of us: EU and UK) "enough important" as a market for the new IS. The want we buy SUV. Or that we spend more a less qualitative car as the ES, or, at least, for a big car that we don't want or don't like. I find it weird. edit: a IS300E? Full Electric. I don''t think to be honest. And if so, I'm afraid not in EU or UK. For sure not in Italy, Italy now, for Lexus is seen like the market of sheep: UX, UX, UX ... NX, NX, NX and nothing else. edit 2: nobody think TESLA?
  12. “Lexus has discontinued the IS sedan, RC coupe, and CT hatchback in the United Kingdom, presumably as a first step to stop sales of the three models throughout Europe. From Autocar: There are no plans to release the updated IS sedan recently released in the USA, though Autocar mentions that a crossover smaller than the UX is “in the works” for an possible 2021 debut” Imagine you have to change your car because your Pay per Drive or any other contract is going to end or from any other reason. What you would to do? Lexus could only offer a mini-Suv a mid-Suv or a Suv. Also, a very expensive Sedan range: ES or LS Let me know what will be your choice. thanks in advance
  13. In the mean, Lexus Italy cancelled the IS series from the website. Now if you want a sedan, the only choiche is ES or LS 🤯