Shahpor

12 hours ago, Heliwilly said:

Hi,

A blast at 2000rpm gets the DPF up to working temp and continuing for approx 20 minutes burns off all the deposits left from short runs. How exactly does the Forced Regen via the Techstream work?
Thanks

Bill W.

The car has a regen mode wherein it dumps extra fuel from the 5th injector into the exhaust the get the DPF very hot.  Normally a blast will work, but as Linas says, enabling the mode will guarantee a regen even when the car is standing still.

Hi Bill,

No indication other than loss of power and potentially generic fault lights on dash.

Generally, yes, a blast a high-ish rpm would do but, the only way to be sure is to get a copy of TechStream and do a forced regen.

3 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

 

I am sure that you are not the only one.

 

But the places where material for batteries are taken out of the earth and where batteries are made and where sooner or later all the not reusable parts of batteries are stored will pollute a lot more than many think and pollution is not something that you can keep where you pollute. It spread to even the place where you live.

 

 

 

This is a classic case of NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard).

The average person will only care about the pollutions and issues in their own area/country and everything else is someone else's problem.

A perfect example is apple products.  How many of you own iPhones?  Did that change when you found out that Foxconn installed netting around its factories to stop their workers from jumping to their deaths because they were basically slaves? I doubt many, if at all.

Nice build thread Rich 👍

Not to everyone's tastes, like you say, but as long as you are happy.

What is obvious is that you must have spent a fortune so far! 🙂

Ignore these is220d naysayers Bill, as an ex Lexus diesel owner myself, I was quite happy with mine 🙂

200k miles? Wow, that must be one of the highest out there!  Obviously well looked after it seems.

As for parts, you could try Lexus Parts Direct for the fasteners, although they aren't the cheapest:

https://lexuspartsdirect.co.uk/product/lexus-trim-push-clip/

To be honest, for the bit you are after, you are probably better off finding one being broken up on eBay.

1 minute ago, Las Palmas said:

So, what you are saying is that in order not to accept that batteries degrade they are having intelligent computer systems charging and having 30 - 50% larger and heavier batteries than needed in order not to inform that the batteries are losing power just like phones and computers. Thus, accepting that batteries are losing power just like batteries do.

No, what I am saying that they are accepting that batteries lose power (since it is not possible for it to be otherwise at present) and are designing their Battery packs accordingly to give the car a minimum of a 8 year useable life expectancy.  As for how they achieve that, manufacturers deliberately avoid telling the driver the state of the Battery as the typical owner is only concerned with range, which is what the computer systems on the cars manage.

42 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

What cars do you own? 

We are a all Kia family at the moment, so a Kia Stinger and Kia Niro EV.  Gas guzzler and electric car; quite the contrast.

4 hours ago, Linas.P said:

I do not actually trust this, especially coming from biased source. Most of BEVs use standard 18650 Lithium Cells, I know Tesla has it's own type 20700 and 21700, as well they looking at 4680, but the technology and the principles are the same as consumer batteries. I guess in simplest terms - if you get good quality cells made by Samsung, LG or Sanyo, then they will be equivalent or better quality cells then those in Tesla/other cars, because big part of choosing cells for BEVs are cost cutting. So "industrial" quality just means "cheaper than consumer", because at $18 per cell and ~600cells per pack +~20% of cost of all peripherals using something like good quality Samsung cells would make the battery cost $12960. And that is just material cost alone, who knows how much should be added for manufacturing, maybe 30-50%. So we are looking at $17000-19500 for battery pack if best cells are used. Tesla is known to use Panasonic batteries which are generally cheaper for consumer batteries than Samsung, LG or Sanyo. I am not saying they are inferior quality, but cost aspect is definitely very important. We as well know that Tesla battery costs ~$13500, but it not very clear how much it costs to actually manufacture it... what I am certain of - it definitely does not cost just $540 and that means Tesla don't use best quality cells available for $12960. I reckon more realistically (using high level 30-50% manufacturing/profit margin) the $13500 battery pack costs less than $9450 in materials and less than $7560 for cells ($12 per cell)... which coincidentally (or maybe not) is the same as best Panasonic "consumer" cells available to buy. 

I think you are missing the point here Linas.  The article doesn't say that the cells are a better quality, only that the overall Battery is built to a 'higher' standard.  What that means is that, unlike a mobile phone Battery, longevity is a key factor that is taken into account in its design.  So, you can see that only about half of the cells are actually used when the Battery is new.  This is costly and makes the Battery much bigger/heavier than it needs to be when the car is new, but the trade off is that it lasts longer then the equivalent phone Battery.

So, as was originally stated, they are different than mobile phones in their degradation profile, but only because they are overprovisioned by a large margin, not a 'better' cell design. 

4 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

Do you know any with an EV car that only charge once a week?

Me.  I only charge on average once a week.

5 hours ago, flotsam said:

I'd like to see proof. My phone battery clearly loses capacity a short time after buying it, though the degradation appears to slow after that. Losing 3% after 5 years appears to defy the chemistry.

You do know that not all batteries are built equal, right?  Just because both your phone and the EV use Lithium-Ion technology does not mean they are the same in terms of design, build or usage.

This article highlights the difference well:

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/why-mobile-phone-batteries-do-not-last-as-long-as-an-ev-battery

Some highlights:

"The Battery in the mobile phone is consumer grade, optimized for maximum runtime at low cost. the EV Battery, on the other hand, is made to industry standards with longevity in mind. The dissimilarities do not stop there and a key difference is how the energy is dispensed."

"The EV Battery also ages and the capacity fades, but the EV manufacturer must guarantee the Battery for eight years. This is done by oversizing the Battery. When the Battery is new, only about half of the available energy is utilized. This is done by charging the pack to only 80% instead of a full charge, and discharging to 30% when the available driving range is spent. As the Battery fades, more of the Battery storage is demanded. The driving range stays constant but unknown to the driver, the Battery is gradually charged to a higher level and discharged deeper to compensate for the fade."

"Harsh loading also reduces Battery life. Because of its large size, the EV Battery is only being stressed moderately, even during acceleration. In comparison, the mobile phone draws continuous high current from a small Battery when transmitting and crunching data. This puts more stress on a mobile phone Battery than driving an EV. A Battery is also negatively impacted by the pulsed load of a mobile phone rather than the DC load of an EV."

So, despite similarities between phone and EV batteries, they cannot be used for comparison.

Welcome Bill 🙂

Cleaning EGR valve, TechStream for forced DPF regen and allocating half a day to replacing one fuel filter spring to mind almost immediately!

Pictures once she gets it are also always appreciated 🙂

The real takeaway from this is that Tesla managed to drop the price of the Model Y by £7k and is still making a profit on each one! The knock on effect on EV values is the market correcting itself I think now that Tesla has some proper competition. 

There is another factor to consider here: The change of leadership at Toyota that is planned for April.

Many news outlets are saying that the new CEO is going to revamp the strategy to focus on EV's going forward, for example:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a42673244/toyota-ceo-akio-toyoda-steps-down/

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/automakers-ev-surge-is-everything-everywhere-all-once-2023-01-26/

An exert from the above Reuters article:

"Toyota's incoming CEO, Koji Sato, faces a daunting task. He must accelerate the Japanese automaker's efforts to develop more competitive electric vehicles. But he will get little breathing room from Tesla or the Chinese EV manufacturers who are using their leads in EV technology and production costs to slash prices.

Tesla already earns roughly seven times as much per vehicle as Toyota. Its 17% pretax margins are roughly double the average for the rest of the industry. And after a rough 2022 for the company's shares, the stock has gained 28% to open up 2023."

The FT is saying that investors and Toyota's own leasing subsidiary are pushing for a shift to EV:

https://www.ft.com/content/d4bec71c-c787-4a76-b479-01ac63f5a427

All this suggests that a shift may be incoming.

Personally, I am not for or against hydrogen as a fuel source for cars.  In fact, I quite like the idea of hydrogen or synthetic fuel powered vehicles, but if I am being honest, I genuinely don't see hydrogen working out as an alternative to EV powered cars.  The main reason behind this belief is that I feel Toyota is the key to it being developed as a viable technology and all signs point to them wavering now.

Perhaps I am wrong, and time will tell, but as I said in my previous post, I feel that if more than 5 years go by without a breakthrough in hydrogen technology then EV's will win by default.

3 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

Well I read an article on Google. The author is an established motor columnist. Written a couple of car books. You know the sort. His article was titled 'is hydrogen the answer'.

Ruddy long article but it actually made sence. The gist was that for cars No. For logistics Yes.

He stated that to make a hydrogen fuel station, like a petrol station, would cost £2 million. That's for just one station. That fact I found quite unbelievable. Another interesting point was that to deliver that hydrogen to the stations needs transport. Hang on I thought. How the hell does petrol get to to the stations. His I suppose conclusion was the hydrogen for cars won't happen but for trucks trains ships planes logistics basically hydrogen is the answer. So that would mean having a large number of filling stations. If there's going to be lots of filling stations then why not have hydrogen powered cars. Makes sence yes?

What he said was overall quite right. Only wish I could find that article. 

I think it was on Fifth Gear Recharged. Buying an EV 2nd hand. How are the batteries? 3 cars were tested. The Nissan, the very first ev put on the road, a tesla model s and one I've forgotten. The cars were of different ages but each had done over 100k miles.

The Nissan lost around 12-25%. The tesla. Wow. This surprised me. Only lost 3-5%. The third car was surprisingly lowish also.

Shame you can't find the article as it sounds quite interesting!

Anyway, correct me if I am wrong, but this sounds to me like you would need a lot less filling station for logistical transport as they can fill up at centralised depots or hubs, so it still wouldn't work for regular cars?  Also, 3-5% after 100k miles?  Wow, that is much better than I thought it would be.  Very impressive if correct.

1 minute ago, Linas.P said:

but it just seems strange that we are listening to some 16 years old girl from Sweden and some soup spilling vegetables who glue themselves to the floor... clearly if we wanted to find solution we would be working with scientists, developing new technologies and not asking circus clowns opinion. 

As you say, funny and sad at the same time.

2 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

What is going to happen when suddenly very many battery-powered cars will need new power because the batteries no longer have any reasonable range? Will countries in our part of the world continue supporting China with money for batteries as that is where most come from?

Will they continue to do what they have done until now for money by buying from China?  Absolutely! Half the stuff on amazon is now made in China, but that doesn't stop anyone from giving them their money.

Also, in terms of technology, there is no greater advancement than when the need is great.  To quote astronaut Jim Lovell: "From now on we live in a world where man has walked on the Moon. It's not a miracle; we just decided to go."

I feel like you may have missed the point of my post John.

What I was getting at is, if it was as simple as you say it is, then why hasn't it happened already?  Also, if it doesn't happen in the very near future, then the inertia of the modern car manufacture means that it will be too difficult and costly to revert to ICE vehicles once they have been design as pure EV's.

You are making the same point yourself with the below quote:

4 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Had a Betamax, but could not get new cassettes (also a Revox with gigantic tape wheels). Anyway, memory chips have made tape no longer needed.

Not being able to get cassettes is the manufacturers abandoning the technology and moving on, which could well be the case once Combustion engines cease being made. 

There is a another big problem for hydrogen cars as well: are they too late?

This article has a good breakdown on what manufacturers are planning for the next 7 years:

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-10119941/Electric-cars-Guide-manufacturers-models-future-plans.html?ico=mol_desktop_electriccars-newtab&molReferrerUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-11681341%2FHow-lack-chargers-soaring-power-costs-sent-electric-vehicle-revolution-reverse.html%3Futm_source%3DLexusOwnersClubUK%26utm_medium%3DForumLinks%26utm_source%3DLexusOwnersClubUK%26utm_medium%3DForumLinks

So, as you can see, Alfa Romeo, DS, Jaguar, Jeep, Mercedes, Peugeot will be all-electric by 2025!  Audi to stop developing ICE's by 2026 and Vauxhall pure EV by 2028.

Now, I know that that is still up to 5 years away, but product lifecycles means that most will be working on those cars right now, and if the platform is EV only, it is unlikely that it can be converted to feature a Internal Combustion Engine easily or cheaply.  Even the ones that have committed to 2030 will probably start working on the new cars once their current ones come to the end of their lives.

So, unless we get a breakthrough in hydrogen power soon, it may be irrelevant how good it is because most manufacturers will have moved on.  In fact, correct me if I am wrong, but aren't Toyota the only one who claim to be working on hydrogen power publicly?

Either way, despite Toyota being the largest car manufacturer in the world, they be facing a flow that is too strong to go against.

All the means that we may have a VHS vs Betamax situation where the technology that wins may not necessarily be the best one.

4 hours ago, Moleman said:

I have up to now decided not to comment, because it is to easy to fall into a pro/anti stance and get stuck.

So the post above shows how a real debate could go if that was allowed to happen

I am not anti BEV, I would likely buy one now if the prices were more realistic, but, there is a but: it would be a second car, charged at home and only used for local trips (no more than 50 Miles). In fact it would replace my Starlet, which I use for that purpose.

It would not however, be any use for me on my regular trips to and from Norfolk, for that I would wish to stick to ICE.

That I think for most town/city folks who can home charge, would be a good solution.

Pollution in towns/city would be greatly reduced, however, it assumes everyone who could home charge would be able to afford two cars, not likely I feel.

Other drivers who truly fit into the small mileage users often quoted to support BEV could be catered for if the Government would get their act together re public charging points (as pointed out by many other users). However, I do still feel this is aimed at mainly those living town environments.

So to finish, I feel we need a hybrid solution, that allows those that can to make a switch to BEV and those who needs are different stick with ICE. Build a proper public charging network, bring the price of BEV down, and stop making it anti/pro one or the other and many would I feel make the change.

Pollution would then be greatly reduced, if that really is the problem?

What is stopping this? The failure today to allow any real debate of an issue, thus seeking actual solutions that would work. A Government that panders to pressure groups to keep them quiet, but making ill thought through decisions and then making no effort to any make them work. Allowing the collection of taxes in every form to become the focus, rather than the solution of the problem (if it exists).

Funnily enough Maurice, I actually fall into the category you are describing.

So, I am in the strange position of having a gas-guzzling petrol car (my Kia Stinger) and a EV (My wife's Kia Niro EV).

We have had the Niro for 2 months and have managed almost 1500 miles in it now.  Due to my commute to work being only 6 miles daily and my wife working from home, the Niro is my everyday transport.  It is also the main car we use when we go out together around the local area.

And you know what?  I am loving driving the Niro!  I didn't think I would, but it is just so effortless and smooth, as well as comfortable, that it really is a stress free environment to be in.  I love the linear power delivery and no gears, the instant response and the lack of vibrations/harshness.

In that time, we have taken it on slightly longer trips (150 miles +) in addition to pottering around town and it has done equally well.  Very comfy on the motorway.

We have also managed all this without visiting any chargers and only charging it at home overnight, where we get cheap electricity from Octopus Go (12p per kWh).  This equates to roughly £7.80 for a full 'tank' that is getting us roughly 250ish miles.

Does this mean that I recommend EV's for everyone?  Most certainly not!  For us, it is strictly because we have 2 cars and I would always have a non-EV as one of them.  Also, having off street parking is a must as far as I am concerned.

In conclusion, I feel EV's have their place on the roads, but aren't the one-size-fits-all solutions that some people think it is.

Welcome Han,

Takumi is rare spec on any Lexus model, but I suspect it would be even more so on a IS.

Lovely looking car you got there 👍

1 hour ago, ColinBarber said:

Toyota GB discontinued the IS, GS, Prius and Camry because the sales dropped off a cliff, before worldwide end of production. Partly because the majority now want SUVs and partly, IMO, because the 7 year model cycle is too long and they become uncompetitive before the new model is released.

However Lexus has never had as high a market share in the UK as it has had in the last couple of years, currently 2022 is at 1.9% (end Nov):

and the same for Toyota, currently 2022 is at 6.4% (end Nov):

 

Thanks for the info Colin.

Whilst it is true that manufacturers appear to need SUV's these days, other brands still manage to bring their saloon and hatchbacks to the UK?  I know the answer to that is that they sell more volume, but we are then back to the 'Chicken and Egg scenario' mentioned by @First_Lexus above.

It would probably not make any money in the short term to bring them here (or, more likely, actually cost money!) but they still sell the LS in the UK and that surely can't generate any profit for the numbers it sells?

Perhaps it could be argued that having more products available might bring curious customer in the door that can then be 'converted' into buying a different model if necessary?

As I haven't the first clue on the business aspects of running a car company I might be talking complete nonsense, but it is a nice idea in theory at least 🙂

3 minutes ago, First_Lexus said:

Let’s all just pause for a moment of quiet reflection before this thread becomes an inevitable twenty page argument about whether the 300h engine is powerful enough, or the pros and cons of saloons vs SUVs…😆

Each to their own and if others are happy with their cars then I am pleased for them.

Having said that, it wouldn't surprise me if there were many more like me who just want a new version of an IS or GS450h.

The sad fact is that I thoroughly enjoyed my time being a Lexus owner, so miss being one..

For me, the answer is simple: Discounting the higher priced cars (~£60k+), of the mainstream you have the choice of 4 SVU's and 1 saloon.  And on that saloon exactly 1 engine choice.  So, for someone like me who doesn't want a SVU, my choice is the ES300h or the ES300h...

Nothing wrong with the cars themselves per se, but considering the number of models and engine choices competitors have, it is difficult to justify choosing something just because of lack of alternatives.

If Lexus had brought the new IS over here, there could have been a chance I wouldn't be driving a Kia at the moment.

Happy New Year to you as well 🙂

Fingers crossed it is something simple and let us know how you get on.

A happy new year to you as well 🙂

Let us know how you get on.