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I just cannot understand people who keep giving an opinion about stuff they never tried

^^^^^Ben Rose and his comments about my cars tyre setup then?? Haha

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I just cannot understand people who keep giving an opinion about stuff they never tried

^^^^^Ben Rose and his comments about my cars tyre setup then?? Haha

You couldn't pay me enough to drive that awful set-up on a public road.

Still, in a few thousand miles the extensive camber on the IS200 rears will have those winters worn down to the canvas and you can start moaning about the loose back end again.

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Let's make some points very clear here:

1) You don't appear to even understand what a winter tyre is. You constantly go on about driving on snow but this isn't the primary function of winter tyres. Others have corrected you, but you choose to ignore this.

2) You don't appear to have ever driving on a winter tyre. If you haven't done this, how can you ever make out that you have expert opinion?

3) You don't represent the motor trade or its opinion at all, at most just a few blokes you work with. If you look at the motor trade as a whole, you'll see a very different picture. BMW, Audi, Lexus etc. are all offering winter tyre programmes right now as they feel they offer a genuine benefit to their customers. Organisations like the SMMT, the AA and the RAC all recommend them. You may work in the motor trade, and have your own opinions, but they certainly are not the opinions of any motor trade organisations.

Class !! :lol:

I just cannot understand people who keep giving an opinion about stuff they never tried or cars they've never driven.

You pull up with a Merc AMG and there always needs to be a tw@t who comments that he prefers the BMW M or Audi RS equivalent. Ask him if he's ever driven the AMG and the Beemer and the answers always is "off course not, but..." ... :rolleyes: "But, but,... if you don't know what you're talking about, keep your comments to yourself, wisearse." (EoR)

I personally think winter tyres should be made compulsory, just like in Germany, and this purely based on their qualities on wet roads.

The UK roads are simply bad and very poorly lit. If you often drive at night, the risk of hitting standing water is really high and the difference it makes to hitting this on summer or on winter tyres is incredible. On summerrubber, you virtually always feel the car being pulled to one side to the other and you're lucky when you're not skating. On winter rubber, you often hardly feel it.

I know the Motor trade as i work in the motor trade. I dont read the publicity crap put out by the motoring organisations. I used to be an AA aproved garage, and the ******* they brougth in wrong diagnosed you wouldnt believe. ITs the coil, no actually its the timing beltsnapped. I had a Corsa just a few weeks ago, the top of the fuel tank was battered and bent, the plastic housing was smached. When i told the customer he should have had his fuel pump fixed ratherthan keep banging it i was told SHE hadnt done it the AA guy did it that morning. He had been wacking it to get it going. After i contacted the AA they paid the bill in full.

I have out more complaints against the AA than any other motoring organisation going. I have had more trouble with the AA than anyone else. THe AA is the one of the best know organisations people know so what they say is taken as word. Once again i have worked for the same company for 20 years this doesnt happen if you dont know what your doing. You dont have to take listen to what i say feel free to ignore me. I have neveronce said theres is no benifit to winter/snow tyres. I just dotn see the point in the expence for such a short period of time.

As for driving amg mercs and prefering bmw Why dotn you start talking abotu proper cars instead of toys.

Edited by janey

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pictures of cars in my garage as follow. you dont get given cars like this if you dont know what your talking about. And the lad in the hat is my aprentice not me

ferrari1.jpg

lotus.jpg

porsche.jpg

bently.jpg

ye right i dotnknow what i am talking about. i have been maintianing these cars for 3/4 years. If you dont know what your talking about with this stuf you soon get found out. So as faras i an concernd you can say what you like about me i know what i am talking about and thats a fact.

So Your amg mercedes over a bmw arguement i wouldnt waste my time argueing over such toy cars

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Winter tyres should be used from November until end of March, when the temps are usually low and the weather wet, so about four months. This is quite a long time. I think though that you still miss the point and are thinking about snow.

If you choose to ignore all the evidence for the safety benefits of fitting winter tyres and if you choose to ignore all the personal experiences of people on here using winter tyres then so be it. What surprises me is that you, being in the profession you are, do not recommend the fitting of winter tyres to your customers because of the short winter spell we in the UK experience, ie snow. You are giving very bad advice. If I was you I would, after reviewing the evidence and trying a set of tyres, pro-actively sell the benefits of fitting winter tyres to your customers.

Furthermore, showing pics of tatty cars really doesn't inspire me to visit your garage especially if you cant grasp what is a winter tyre/summer tyre.

The mind boggles.

Winter=wet, slush, ice, not just snow. Winter=wet, slush, ice, not just snow. Winter=wet, slush, ice, not just snow. Winter=wet, slush, ice, not just snow. Winter=wet, slush, ice, not just snow. Winter=wet, slush, ice, not just snow. Winter=wet, slush, ice, not just snow. Winter=wet, slush, ice, not just snow. Winter=wet, slush, ice, not just snow. Winter=wet, slush, ice, not just snow. Winter=wet, slush, ice, not just snow.

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Winter tyres should be used from November until end of March, when the temps are usually low and the weather wet, so about four months. This is quite a long time. I think though that you still miss the point and are thinking about snow.

If you choose to ignore all the evidence for the safety benefits of fitting winter tyres and if you choose to ignore all the personal experiences of people on here using winter tyres then so be it. What surprises me is that you, being in the profession you are, do not recommend the fitting of winter tyres to your customers because of the short winter spell we in the UK experience, ie snow. You are giving very bad advice. If I was you I would, after reviewing the evidence and trying a set of tyres, pro-actively sell the benefits of fitting winter tyres to your customers.

Furthermore, showing pics of tatty cars really doesn't inspire me to visit your garage especially if you cant grasp what is a winter tyre/summer tyre.

The mind boggles.

Winter=wet, slush, ice, not just snow. Winter=wet, slush, ice, not just snow. Winter=wet, slush, ice, not just snow. Winter=wet, slush, ice, not just snow. Winter=wet, slush, ice, not just snow. Winter=wet, slush, ice, not just snow. Winter=wet, slush, ice, not just snow. Winter=wet, slush, ice, not just snow. Winter=wet, slush, ice, not just snow. Winter=wet, slush, ice, not just snow. Winter=wet, slush, ice, not just snow.

Ferrari 360 rag top. Porsche 911 turbo. Bently, Mint 85 limited edition Esprit tubro (now in France as the owner couldnt bear to part with it when he moved over there). Tatty cars?? I presume you mean the back ground cars. Good job i didnt pan the camera around theres a skip yard just behind the ferrari!!.

As for recomending winter tyres to my customers most of them refuse to buy a branded tyre let alone "special" ones for winter. As you can probably tell from the picture, Louts esprit turbo and Vauxhall tigra in the same picture, i have a wide range of customers and wide range of cars i work on. The less well off end of my customer data base just would go for a "special tyre". As i have said i personally dont feel the need to buy and i would get them a dam sight cheaper than anyone else on here. If i dont see the need to use them why would i recomend them to others. I have never doubted there use.

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fil4362 to say things like that against the AA on an open forum is leaving both yourself and the LOC open to action by the AA. Strange that you suddenly bring that in to a thread that has no relevance - not very professional at all IMHO :(

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fil4362 to say things like that against the AA on an open forum is leaving both yourself and the LOC open to action by the AA. Strange that you suddenly bring that in to a thread that has no relevance - not very professional at all IMHO :(

Agree.

Not sure what point he's trying to make here, but bar wasting his time and server space, I can't see the sense of his questionable goobeldigook.

Maybe didn't get this is not the place to try impressing women with his cars or driving prowess.

There's no sexy women, here, mate !

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The little Yellow badges that were around years ago. The AA didnt always patrol they use to wait on street corners. One of there jobs was to discreetly signal to members displaying the little yellow badge if there was a police officer near by!!. Bet you didnt know that fact did you?? So the AA isnt as squeeky clean and correct as everyone thinks they are.

I can't see the relevance of the above statement to your condemnation of the AA and their employees! Do you condemn ALL of the breakdown/recovery operators or just the AA. I am sure that anyone who has been employed on breakdown work will have misdiagnosed at one time or another at midnight on a cold wet icy night with often ill maintained cars. Can you honestly say that you have never misdiagnosed a fault in your nice dry "workshop" after your midmorning cuppa?

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The little Yellow badges that were around years ago. The AA didnt always patrol they use to wait on street corners. One of there jobs was to discreetly signal to members displaying the little yellow badge if there was a police officer near by!!. Bet you didnt know that fact did you?? So the AA isnt as squeeky clean and correct as everyone thinks they are.

I can't see the relevance of the above statement to your condemnation of the AA and their employees! Do you condemn ALL of the breakdown/recovery operators or just the AA. I am sure that anyone who has been employed on breakdown work will have misdiagnosed at one time or another at midnight on a cold wet icy night with often ill maintained cars. Can you honestly say that you have never misdiagnosed a fault in your nice dry "workshop" after your midmorning cuppa?

The above statement is again showing that the AA isnt as squeeky clean as their public image would suggest. At the outset the were set up to "help" members in anyway they could even it it wasnt entirly honest. Then again i think its only recently become illegal to to notify other road users of police presance. Hasnt soem one recently been in the press for the very same thing??

I didnt condem any one did i? To condem them would be to "grass" them up and condem them to a fate wouldnt it??. I mearly pointed out a couple of examples of what some of the AA patrol men get up to. Yes i have misdiagnosed a fault on car, but then again the timing belt job that the AA man said was a coil i could tell it was a broken timing belt without opening the bonnet. If you have ever had a car with a broken timing belt its a sound when cranking you dont forget.

Its the same patrol men with wrong diags over and over and,as mentioned, one of the patrol men used to work alongside me so i know his standards before he even brings a car to me. I was mearly pointing otu a couple of problems with the AA so that people realise they are not as squeaky clean and prim and proper as the public image appears.

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fil4362 how can u knock something which you haven't tried. winter tyres that is.

mmmmm dont recall knocking them, i mearly pointed out i dont see the point in them. Its been above the magic 7 degrees in my area for nearly the full year. People keep pointing out the tyres work best below this 7 degress, does this then mean they work the same as a normal tyre above this temperature and theefore everyone should take them off again now. For the amount of time these tyres would actually benifit is one of the main reasons i dont use them.

I have driven a car with a full set of brand new winter tyres on ok it, wasnt my car and its was only a 5 miles road test but to be honest i didnt notice a diffrence. Think it was about end of november so would have been cold and possibly wet. I have mentioned many times that i have provided a set of full winter tyres for ONE customer this winter.

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fil4362 to say things like that against the AA on an open forum is leaving both yourself and the LOC open to action by the AA. Strange that you suddenly bring that in to a thread that has no relevance - not very professional at all IMHO :(

Agree.

Not sure what point he's trying to make here, but bar wasting his time and server space, I can't see the sense of his questionable goobeldigook.

Maybe didn't get this is not the place to try impressing women with his cars or driving prowess.

There's no sexy women, here, mate !

wrong again these are not my cars for a start. If you cant see the point i am trying to make you could just stop reading my post now theres an idea. You seem to be following me around this site making comment on every post.

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Thread has now been edited due complaints regarding a number of comments posted.

Please remember this thread is regarding 'Winter Tyres' so please keep it on topic.

If anyone has any further complaints regarding any of the content left in the thread please contact me a.s.a.p.

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OK, back on topic - it maybe warm, 13deg here, but very wet! My winter tyres are coping very well though.

I wonder if there are any calcs or comparisons between water dispersement of a winter tyre against a summer tyre???

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I have some water displacement stats of new summer tyres (8mm tread) versus used (3mm) and just legal (1.6mm) but I don't have any specific one for winter tyres - 10mm tread. No doubt it's a serious amount as they go through standing water like it's not there.

Since I had my winters fitted in September there have truly been very few days where I haven't benefited them.

Incidentally, a summer tyre will wear 40% faster than a winter tyre in winter months - that's another stat for you.

In real terms, that means if a winter tyre wears 2mm in winter, then your summer tyres would have lost almost 3mm in the same period.

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I have some water displacement stats of new summer tyres (8mm tread) versus used (3mm) and just legal (1.6mm) but I don't have any specific one for winter tyres - 10mm tread. No doubt it's a serious amount as they go through standing water like it's not there.

Since I had my winters fitted in September there have truly been very few days where I haven't benefited them.

Incidentally, a summer tyre will wear 40% faster than a winter tyre in winter months - that's another stat for you.

In real terms, that means if a winter tyre wears 2mm in winter, then your summer tyres would have lost almost 3mm in the same period.

On what basis do you work out your statistics? I am not doubting them just asking the question. Surley mileage comes into the equation more than just weather and temp.!! Wear rate for a tyre comes down to compound of rubber, driving style and area the owner lives. Oh yes area the owner lives. Under the new mot computerisation scheme everything is recorded. What cars fail on what items in what area is a big suprise. Aparently Milton keynes is a big area for tyre wear. More cars fail on tyres than anywhere else in the country. Aparently theres alot of roundabouts in the area.

Dont forget figures produced by manufaturers are usual based on rolling road conditions and not real life.

As for a brand new set of tyres going on your car in september with 10mm tread on them can you prove that they are beter because they are winter tyres and not just because they had more tread on than the ones you took off. Brand new tyres usually have7/8mm with a new set of winters your getting 3mm more tread. I bet the tyres you took of were not new and at best had 6mm of tread,therefore your new rubber would have had 4mm more tread. I would put money on it your car felt better at getting rid of water.

Was it all down to being winter tyres though or did the extra 4mm of tread have something to do with it you think. I still wont be buying winter tyres. I personally dont feel the need to. I dont doubt they are a beter tyre and never have just a whole lot of money to fix a problem i didnt have in the first place.

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I have no doubt whatsoever that the improved wet handling of a winter tyre is partially attributed to tread depth - they intentionally have 10mm of tread for a reason. But they will wear, for sure. At some point, they will have 6mm of tread, which could be the same as a summer tyre.

Even with the same tread depth, however, the actual pattern of the tread will give the winter tyre better wet cornering, better wet braking and reduced risk of aquaplaning - even on a warm day.

On a cold day (below 7C) the rubber on a summer tyre freezes and goes hard. This makes it more brittle and more prone to slippage - this creates increased wear on the tyre, reducing its value.

Where you live has absolutely no relevance here - being on the correct tyre reduces wear, full stop.

There is no increased overall cost with winter tyres and you can actually end up saving money.

If you fit a set of summer tyres to your car, they won't wear at a fixed rate - they will wear more in the colder months. If you take them over during this period, replacing with a more suitable winter tyre, you eliminate this high wear period and save the summer tyres for the warmer months in which they operate best.

Ultimately, if the tyres cost the same, you are better off wearing 2mm off a winter tyre than you are by taking 3mm off your summer tyre in the same period - and you end up safer on the roads on cold/wet days. It doesn't matter about driving standards, or driving to the conditions, a winter tyre will ALWAYS stop quicker than a summer tyre in the cold/wet. If a child runs out in the road from a blind spot, or similar, you have more chance of stopping when using the winter tyre in the winter months. This is, by definition, safer.

In my eyes, it's a complete no brainer. It's safer and overall cost is the same.

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I have no doubt whatsoever that the improved wet handling of a winter tyre is partially attributed to tread depth - they intentionally have 10mm of tread for a reason. But they will wear, for sure. At some point, they will have 6mm of tread, which could be the same as a summer tyre.

Even with the same tread depth, however, the actual pattern of the tread will give the winter tyre better wet cornering, better wet braking and reduced risk of aquaplaning - even on a warm day.

On a cold day (below 7C) the rubber on a summer tyre freezes and goes hard. This makes it more brittle and more prone to slippage - this creates increased wear on the tyre, reducing its value.

Where you live has absolutely no relevance here - being on the correct tyre reduces wear, full stop.

There is no increased overall cost with winter tyres and you can actually end up saving money.

If you fit a set of summer tyres to your car, they won't wear at a fixed rate - they will wear more in the colder months. If you take them over during this period, replacing with a more suitable winter tyre, you eliminate this high wear period and save the summer tyres for the warmer months in which they operate best.

Ultimately, if the tyres cost the same, you are better off wearing 2mm off a winter tyre than you are by taking 3mm off your summer tyre in the same period - and you end up safer on the roads on cold/wet days. It doesn't matter about driving standards, or driving to the conditions, a winter tyre will ALWAYS stop quicker than a summer tyre in the cold/wet. If a child runs out in the road from a blind spot, or similar, you have more chance of stopping when using the winter tyre in the winter months. This is, by definition, safer.

In my eyes, it's a complete no brainer. It's safer and overall cost is the same.

I agree will all of this. You are not purchasing extra tyres as the summer tyres will last longer. The grip of my winter tyres is outstanding in the wet and the extra safety benefits out weigh any cost concerns.

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On water-displacement, the reason a winter tyre does not perform as well on normal dry (warm) tarmac is exactly at the basis of its qualities in the rain.

1. Winter tyres generally start life with 11mm of tread depth vs 7 or 8mm for a summer tyre. That means the rubber blocks on the surface "flex" more but also that there is about 3-4mm to evacuate more water. That might sound little, but it does represent 50% of volume.

2. The treads are generally also wider and the rubber blocks themselves are not "solid" but have small sipes. So in general, there is much less surface of rubber in contact with the road, but that means more space for water to be evacuated.

As the tyres wear, the 3 to 4mm difference becomes relatively bigger. Your average tyre on a car will be 4 to 5mm, your average winter tyre will be 8 or 9. That is at least twice the ability to evacuate water.

Hence why a car feels more stable with wintertyres when it's pooring down or you drive through standing water than when you use a summer tyre.

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