Future EV values

[wivenhoe]

Today’s article in the Times foretells of a massive problem for EV manufacturers and owners. I really do wish I got my car on a PCP rather than pay £ 73k for it !

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bccce247-5329-4226-a7ed-ddd1ec5d8150?shareToken=6aef5b61eb7b210146611e0ea7d23a7d

Edited April 22 by wivenhoe
Wrong link insered

[CT200NI]

I'm not surprised, people were saying this 1, 2, 3 years ago and all they got back on Facebook or forums was smart comments from owners or excited EV fans making sly remarks. And I get that there are some annoying snarky folks who are overly anti-EV too, arguably deserving said remarks. 

I can't afford one, nor can anyone in my immediate circles. Those who do have the nicer cars are spending their money on 3 year old BMWs and Mercs, not an electric Corsa for the same money... 

Some of the people I've spoken to at work (usually managers / older folks more advanced in their careers) got them through work and initially, had a honeymoon period of 'this is the best car I've ever owned, I'll never drive an engine car again'. And have also all since been caught short, had issues and a hard time resolving them via the dealer and the final straw for most, work recently had to start charging a cost for EV charging which for years, was a niche, free thing - demand for spaces and electricity is too high even with a modest uptake of EV ownership. Now, most of the same people say: never again. 

I only had a short test drive in a Tesla, for an hour, with some friends. It's one hell of a fun car. I don't see them going away or getting worse. I think the government, and car companies, are learning a very hard lesson about reality, in the only way they ever learn anything, with great expense and wasted resources. EVs are only a small fraction of the solution, for a small fraction of the population, in a small fraction of the most congested town and city centres across the country.

If you're going to legislate them, legislate them THERE. Offer your big government grants only to those who otherwise can't afford anything than an old banger.... what? You can't do that?  But wait, you said it was a climate 'emergency', so why not pull out all the stops? ... 

This isn't China or any other regime. People aren't stupid enough to believe the governments lies. We are able to look at the facts for ourselves and see the bigger picture. We can ask questions and the tiptoeing around them or outright 'laugh in your face for not understanding EVs' had LED to this. And I'm not ripping on people from China, it's not their fault they are denied access to freedom of information, thought or choice. Frankly, any statistic from the CCP should be taken with a grain of salt, and even if it is true, it's only because they're decided for millions of people it to be true, cars are no exception. It's a sad factor that us, in the UK and beyond, are contributing towards its parasitic EV influx by buying lousy 'MG' motors and their other TikTok-esque brands flooding the market, shame on us for that. 

[John Adams]

42 minutes ago, wivenhoe said:

 I really do wish I got my car on a PCP rather than pay £ 73k for it !

 

Worst decision I ever made: buying an RZ. Best decision I ever made: Buying on a 2 year PCP so they can have the overpriced piece of junk back next May

Edited April 22 by John Adams

[GMB]

1 hour ago, CT200NI said:

People aren't stupid enough to believe the governments lies

Unfortunately a lot of people actually do believe the gov't lies. The big issue is that we do nothing about it apart from wait until the gov't allow a general election and the next lot get in. Don't expect any favours from them either. 

[CT200NI]

9 minutes ago, GMB said:

Unfortunately a lot of people actually do believe the gov't lies. The big issue is that we do nothing about it apart from wait until the gov't allow a general election and the next lot get in. Don't expect any favours from them either. 

Personally for the most part, I’d say as far as world governments go, we’ve got a pretty good / reliable / charitable one (in fact, maybe being too charitable at the wrong times is part of one of its major flaws!).  Not a perfect government at all, but objectively one of the “best”.  That’s not excusing their ***** ups! look at Venezuela… Russia … China. 
 

The electric car stuff, sadly, is bowing to pressure from eco activist groups and an idiotic (my) generation and below making outrageous demands, crying about this horrible world they’ve forcibly been born into, blaming the old generation for climate change, and then making stupid statements like ‘just stop oil’ and expecting that if we all are forced to drive EVs, the problem will go away.   I fear it’s governments trying to appeal to said groups and ideas that leads to these silly laws and rules, not just here but in the EU as well since we’re fairly in sync with the whole .. 2050..2035..2030..2035 dates on it 😞 

 

At least we’ve realised it this far before any of those dates have come, that’s a positive at least. 
 

as for voting day, I dare say the long spell of Tories probably comes down to someone with the initials of ‘JC’ being so god awful, that even their mishaps are a drop in the ocean compared to what that jack@ss would have done…. Getting his photo taken with terrorists and promising to decommission our deterrents…. Can you really blame any one for voting Tory?! 🤣 (I hope you get my point, not defending their mistakes but just trying to poke some fun at the other choice we had).
 

I wish we had more credible choices at the polling stations. still, if you ever feel bad about the Labour vs Tory situation, have a Quick Look over at Northern Ireland, we’ve got a real **** show going on here with politics 🤦‍♂️

[GMB]

2 hours ago, wivenhoe said:

Today’s article in the Times foretells of a massive problem for EV manufacturers and owners. I really do wish I got my car on a PCP rather than pay £ 73k for it !

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bccce247-5329-4226-a7ed-ddd1ec5d8150?shareToken=6aef5b61eb7b210146611e0ea7d23a7d

Just read the article😮.  When some of those BYD cars arrive and they get sold off for peanuts I might finally go electric😇.

My target price to defect to EV would be about £12K for a new top of the range BYD model.💸🤭

[Spock66]

The future price of EV's will be determined by supply & demand, if there is strong supply and minimal demand then yes the prices will tank.

Currently helping my son who has recently passed his test to buy a car, the price of 10-year+ old ICE cars amazes me (not in a good way).

[CT200NI]

9 minutes ago, Spock66 said:

The future price of EV's will be determined by supply & demand, if there is strong supply and minimal demand then yes the prices will tank.

Currently helping my son who has recently passed his test to buy a car, the price of 10-year+ old ICE cars amazes me (not in a good way).

It's truly become shocking. I bought a two year old Fiat Panda in 2019 for £5.5k, that would have been just under 12k new in 2017.. NOW, to buy a two year old one, would cost more than double what I paid for the SAME car. The new price went from like around 10k to 14k in just a few years. 

The decent used first cars I looked at a decade ago, like Corsas, Fiestas.. you'd have got a decent one for around 2k. That's closer to 5k now for an equivalent aged newer design model.

I don't understand it personally. I understand inflation as a concept. But the last 5 years has been well above even a bad dose of inflation. Mind blowing 

[GMB]

39 minutes ago, CT200NI said:

don't understand it personally. I understand inflation as a concept. But the last 5 years has been well above even a bad dose of inflation. Mind blowing 

What I don't understand is how we ( the trampled workers - 45 yrs full NI contributions "comrades"😁 ) all have less buying power and are generally quite a bit poorer ( think 14 yrs tory *incompetent* gov't, wars and badly managed disease control ) and yet restaurants seem busy and people buy stupidly priced cars that lose money in a titanic style.  I just don't get it either. The answer for me is don't buy silly priced things like £70K+ new cars or go to rip-off restaurants or UK holidays.  We have a lovely petrol burning Lexus that should last a long long time and intend to enjoy it.  Might splash out on a week in Italy or Spain though😏??🤔

 

**I was being generous and polite by saying incompetent. I really meant crooked fit for nothing B********s.

 

Phew that's better off my chest.

[CT200NI]

25 minutes ago, GMB said:

What I don't understand is how we ( the trampled workers - 45 yrs full NI contributions "comrades"😁 ) all have less buying power and are generally quite a bit poorer ( think 14 yrs tory *incompetent* gov't, wars and badly managed disease control ) and yet restaurants seem busy and people buy stupidly priced cars that lose money in a titanic style.  I just don't get it either. The answer for me is don't buy silly priced things like £70K+ new cars or go to rip-off restaurants or UK holidays.  We have a lovely petrol burning Lexus that should last a long long time and intend to enjoy it.  Might splash out on a week in Italy or Spain though😏??🤔

 

**I was being generous and polite by saying incompetent. I really meant crooked fit for nothing B********s.

 

Phew that's better off my chest.

Well, in hindsight the government can always have done a better job. They definitely screwed up at times, certainly. But it’s better than the alternative we could have had… I wish we had more choice in the votes.  If it’s any consolation, the same sad state of affairs seems to be true in most of the developed world 😕
 

I think people are too happy to go into debt these days. That’s definitely true of my generation, sink into debt and blame the <older generation> or <the tories>.  I’m just glad they’ve retired blaming the recession.. brexit… Trump… Covid.. Putin… The latest fad is Hamas/Israel 🤦‍♂️  companies and consumers are both getting too greedy for their own good is my view 

[Boomer54]

33 minutes ago, GMB said:

What I don't understand is how we ( the trampled workers - 45 yrs full NI contributions "comrades"😁 ) all have less buying power and are generally quite a bit poorer ( think 14 yrs tory *incompetent* gov't, wars and badly managed disease control ) and yet restaurants seem busy and people buy stupidly priced cars that lose money in a titanic style.  I just don't get it either. The answer for me is don't buy silly priced things like £70K+ new cars or go to rip-off restaurants or UK holidays.  We have a lovely petrol burning Lexus that should last a long long time and intend to enjoy it.  Might splash out on a week in Italy or Spain though😏??🤔

 

**I was being generous and polite by saying incompetent. I really meant crooked fit for nothing B********s.

 

Phew that's better off my chest.

You don't get it because there is a dichotomy running through your first sentence. That is, yes restaurants seem to be teeming, but actually they are in fact teeming with those 45yr NI payers which leads to a conclusion that perhaps their purchasing power is doing very well indeed. Not that there will not be some who are indeed struggling to get that week in Benidorm, but like always they are not very descriptive of the entire picture.

In truth I cannot remember the last govt that seems to have any sense of a wide appeal that they were in fact doing a good job. Perhaps the answer is to curtail their job severely, but regardless of Camermoron bleating about delivering smaller govt all those years ago we still have ever greater encroachment from them.

EV might be simply left to market forces just like the original fossil fuel cars were. People who can afford them buy them. Those that cannot drive somethingelse and in the fullness of time if EV really are a good idea they will do to Fossil fuel cars what they did to trains and horses etc. Govt interference is seldom a good idea.

[GMB]

14 minutes ago, Boomer54 said:

You don't get it because there is a dichotomy

Dichotomy? I had that in a restaurant in Paris with pommes frites many years ago. My wife preferred the Andouillettes. Now they are a really horrible thing. A bit like the Tories but smellier..

[Boomer54]

1 hour ago, GMB said:

Dichotomy? I had that in a restaurant in Paris with pommes frites many years ago. My wife preferred the Andouillettes. Now they are a really horrible thing. A bit like the Tories but smellier..

The only thing I took away from Paris was the desire never again to drive a RHD car on the peripherique ! 4 and even 5 lanes of traffic and if you need to change lanes quickly when you see your turnoff coming up then good luck with that. Having said which the Italians on their 2 wheeled death machines can create even more havoc with just one lane.

[wivenhoe]

The answer for you GMB may well be to not spend £ 70k on a ‘silly thing like a car’ and drive a 12 year old car, but if I can afford it - which I can and did, then who are you to sit in judgement. The point of the post was about EV values  

[CT200NI]

5 minutes ago, wivenhoe said:

The answer for you GMB may well be to not spend £ 70k on a ‘silly thing like a car’ and drive a 12 year old car, but if I can afford it - which I can and did, then who are you to sit in judgement. The point of the post was about EV values  

I can't afford it, but if I was working 60 hour weeks and had the means, I'd definitely to it. I pass some outstanding houses on the way to work, and very rarely, see a supercar level Porsche or McLaren parked at the back of the car park. And frankly, no matter what I do, there is a 99% chance I'll never be able to afford it. But I admire the people who are living that lifestyle. In this world, it's very unlikely they're being given that money for nothing. My presumption is they're working (or have worked) extremely hard and that's simply the fruit of their labour. Today I sat around in between work typing on this forum, it's obvious to me that while I do work hard, I'm not doing anything to the extent that I deserve anybody's millions for what I do. Nor is what I do, something that anyone else can't spend a few months learning to be able to do the same or better 

It always annoys me when people get salty about people who are 'well off' or successful financially. I'm not talking about GMB in particular. More so my generation of mid / late 20s people who are just so salty and rather than working hard to get there, they sit around and blame systems and governments for 'keeping them down' despite the fact they've never even tried. 

More power to the people driving around in the fruits of their labour. And anyway, it's a small group of 'those 1% people' who pay for I think the bottom 20% of income earners NHS and other things, doesn't 40p of every £1 they earn get taken, just like that?! Personally, I think there's a case that that's unfair..   

And anyway, I get an odd satisfaction just knowing that the Lexus LC500 exists, and that even though I've got a lower spec, older CT, which is a little touch of some 'luxury' for me, I like the aspirational link there.  It's a little like having a poster of a bikini model on your wall, even if you know you don't have a chance with her, aren't you just a bit happier to know people like that exist, and that they're walking around as we all live life?  No point getting angry and bitter if you don't 'have one' lol 

[GMB]

Ooh er missus. Sorry if I upset you🥸.  Cheer up Doris.

[CT200NI]

44 minutes ago, GMB said:

Ooh er missus. Sorry if I upset you🥸.  Cheer up Doris.

Hey I specified I wasn’t particularly referring to you 😝

[Tickedon]

1 hour ago, CT200NI said:

 

More power to the people driving around in the fruits of their labour. And anyway, it's a small group of 'those 1% people' who pay for I think the bottom 20% of income earners NHS and other things, doesn't 40p of every £1 they earn get taken, just like that?! Personally, I think there's a case that that's unfair..   

 

We passed a tipping point a few years ago - the majority of the UK population now get more from the government in public expenditure and tax credits / benefits than they put in. A smaller and smaller top slice of the population are paying for nearly everything. The top 10% of earners pay more than 50% of all income tax. The top 1% pay 28%.

And 40p? Top rate of tax is 45p plus 2p national insurance - meaning 47% of every £1 earned disappears. And if you’re lucky / unlucky enough to earn between £100k and £125k, your marginal tax rate is *60%*. 

It’s a small miracle anyone still works hard and pays taxes. 

I am however very grateful for anyone who buys a new car - as without those purchases, there’d never be any used cars for everyone else to benefit from…

[GMB]

8 hours ago, CT200NI said:

Hey I specified I wasn’t particularly referring to you 😝

Thanks SB  Appreciate your kindness.  I agree anyone can do what they like with their hard earned money. It's just that different people have different priorities and that's fine. It's a free world -- Hang on... or is it☺️.  Anyway best wishes to everyone no matter what your car preference is.   It would be interesting to see what other people would spend £70K on -  put it in the bank? World cruise? Second hand Morgan and a cheaper runabout.  If only......

[Boomer54]

39 minutes ago, GMB said:

Thanks SB  Appreciate your kindness.  I agree anyone can do what they like with their hard earned money. It's just that different people have different priorities and that's fine. It's a free world -- Hang on... or is it☺️.  Anyway best wishes to everyone no matter what your car preference is.   It would be interesting to see what other people would spend £70K on -  put it in the bank? World cruise? Second hand Morgan and a cheaper runabout.  If only......

Well, as I miss my planet I will spend 70k on a ticket to MARS. Sorry David we still don't have any spiders.

[GMB]

42 minutes ago, Boomer54 said:

Well, as I miss my planet I will spend 70k on a ticket to MARS

Slight logistic problem with the ticket to Mars. I don't think £70K would cover it. Maybe £70M? Anyway, there's nowt to do on Mars...or is there? I heard this morning that the house of Lords have passed the bill to send illegal immigrants to Mars and that trips start in about 12 weeks?  Time to start packing methinks.

[Boomer54]

1 hour ago, GMB said:

Slight logistic problem with the ticket to Mars. I don't think £70K would cover it. Maybe £70M? Anyway, there's nowt to do on Mars...or is there? I heard this morning that the house of Lords have passed the bill to send illegal immigrants to Mars and that trips start in about 12 weeks?  Time to start packing methinks.

Mate we can't get them as far as Rwanda so Mars is a none starter. We should be talking to the Danes about using the Faroe islands ,much more accessable, but as Scott says' "the sun ain't going to shine anymore" for them.

 Better still use the Falkland islands then let Argentina have them back in a few years time!

We've done it again EV values to ?