Barry Lavin

I stand to be corrected but I think there was a fairly substantial thread on the US site last year about this .

Thanks for taking out the pictures. I am in the UK and know nothing about the law in Ireland. If I had been sold a sat/nav system which had severly limited functionality in the location at which I bought it, I believe UK law would entitle me to return it for a refund or have it brought to a functional condition at the expense of the supplier. My basis for this belief is that UK law entitles me to expect that goods that I buy will be "fit for their intended purpose". The only let out for the retailer as far as I can see would be if he specifically indicated to you at the time of purchase that the device did not include maps for Ireland or that the Irish maps included were not comprehensive. Was the system demonstrated to you? Did that demonstration show the inherent map limitations that existed at the time? If it did and you accepted it having seen that demonstration, then your position is greatly weakened. If the retailer had given no warning of limited functionality and refused to refund or take action to bring the system up to a proper functional state, my next UK recourse would be to the local Trading Standards Office. I would also want to bring Lexus corporate into the picture, though my contract is with the retailer, because they are in a position to support and influence the retailer. I would not seek to purchase additional software elsewhere since that could be seen as a tacit admission that I had accepted the limited functionality of the device as sold. If you have an equivalent of our local Trading Standards Office, I would pay them a visit and seek their advice. Gentlemen Thank you for your time and advice. We have a consumer goods council here which gives guidance under the consumer goods act . I have spoken to them today and like yourselves they see no merit in the garages argument and suggest that I take legal action against them to have things put right. It is going to be interesting what the judge says about the RDS/TMC set up as you can be sure that neither I nor anyone else was informed of the limitations of this system when we bought it. The sat/nav can be put right with a new disc but are they going to put a satelite in space for when I want to avoid traffic :winky: I think basically this garage have got the Merc bug and think that one customer here or there doesn't matter, what he seems to be saying is if you bought a car from us with MM in May we'll give you a crappy sat/nav and if you bought it from us in December for the same money we'll give you a good sat/nav but we wont give you RDS/TMC anyway because it only exists on page 93 of the Navigation system handbook. Stupid innit photos eventually

People do moan and groan, because they expect more - sorry should re-phrase that - expect to be treated equally around the globe by a global company, which just so happens to be the biggestish car manufacturer in the world! It just seems to me that the only logical answer you can give to not having auto locks is "move over there" or "import one". Why can't you as a salesman take the mantle on our behalf and tell Lexus we want this feature - fight the cause? That's not too much to ask if your Cust Sat and service is so good, is it? So put the sales patter to actual use! Small issue to you maybe, but: You'd understand how disconcerting it feels to have some stranger trying to open a rear door in your car whilst you have a 10 month old baby in a child seat in there if it happened to you. Luckily my AUDI, built 4 years ago, had the feature enabled, and the vagrant could only thump on the glass and kick the door.... And as far as build quality is concerned, don't get me started! If you've read any of my posts you will know that I have had shockingly bad treatment on a car that has had more warranty visits then I care to remember, as have at least 2 other owners on here (one of which has defected (alpappy) and one who refuses to post on here any more. To me it's more of an oversight than Merc's not having double locking, or even stranger when you consider that Lexus is so concerned about your safety that they give you loads of airbags, which you might need once, but cannot enable a simple feature which would have cost nothing...It is a small thing, but as such get's you annoyed, and no I'm not a gold fish, I can remember to lock the doors. The point is that I shouldn't have to, especially when I know the car is capable! rant over too PS - Si - fully agreed! PPS - If: I had been told the car has a rattle problem, no fix available and mine would go in 4 times for remedy and foam fixes, the gearing means 70 in 6th is a "tall" order and robs it of enjoyment, fuel economy of 44.8 is hard to achieve, the Sat Nav has loads of nanny, the alloys still corrode, the paint is thin, my cheque for my PEX would be delayed by 5 weeks, 3 Cherished xfer forms would be incorrect, meaning I would have to make endless visits, and oh yes the auto locks are actually not availble, then yes, I would have looked elsewhere! OK my test drive should have cleared the drive stuff, but tesdrive was on a brand spanker and the sales man said it had a tight engine... Dead on This is the same kind of crap i'm getting over my car SAT/NAV ( different thread) I have seriously started to question Lexus's so called "above and beyond everyone elses service". As a matter of interest, do you not find having to open a door when your car is stopped on auto to turn off the lights a pain, a small one but a pain non the less.

Thanks for taking out the pictures. I am in the UK and know nothing about the law in Ireland. If I had been sold a sat/nav system which had severly limited functionality in the location at which I bought it, I believe UK law would entitle me to return it for a refund or have it brought to a functional condition at the expense of the supplier. My basis for this belief is that UK law entitles me to expect that goods that I buy will be "fit for their intended purpose". The only let out for the retailer as far as I can see would be if he specifically indicated to you at the time of purchase that the device did not include maps for Ireland or that the Irish maps included were not comprehensive. Was the system demonstrated to you? Did that demonstration show the inherent map limitations that existed at the time? If it did and you accepted it having seen that demonstration, then your position is greatly weakened. If the retailer had given no warning of limited functionality and refused to refund or take action to bring the system up to a proper functional state, my next UK recourse would be to the local Trading Standards Office. I would also want to bring Lexus corporate into the picture, though my contract is with the retailer, because they are in a position to support and influence the retailer. I would not seek to purchase additional software elsewhere since that could be seen as a tacit admission that I had accepted the limited functionality of the device as sold. If you have an equivalent of our local Trading Standards Office, I would pay them a visit and seek their advice. Gentlemen Thank you for your time and advice. We have a consumer goods council here which gives guidance under the consumer goods act . I have spoken to them today and like yourselves they see no merit in the garages argument and suggest that I take legal action against them to have things put right. It is going to be interesting what the judge says about the RDS/TMC set up as you can be sure that neither I nor anyone else was informed of the limitations of this system when we bought it. The sat/nav can be put right with a new disc but are they going to put a satelite in space for when I want to avoid traffic :winky: I think basically this garage have got the Merc bug and think that one customer here or there doesn't matter, what he seems to be saying is if you bought a car from us with MM in May we'll give you a crappy sat/nav and if you bought it from us in December for the same money we'll give you a good sat/nav but we wont give you RDS/TMC anyway because it only exists on page 93 of the Navigation system handbook. Stupid innit

Gentlemen, Firstly may I appologise if any of the following does not come out as I know very little about computers and I had to enlist my daughter to help me. Firstly I have ( according to the proprietor of Kinsella Lexus in Dublin) "The latest mapping software available to the motor trade" :D in May 2006. There is a new version out and thats the one I think I should be entitled to. Anyway I received a reply from him today telling me that..... "I can understand your frustration with what you see has been a negative response to your request for a free software upgrade and as this issue has only come to light with myself and PS ( the rep that flogged me the "state of the art" system) now I will endeavour to answer your criticisms of the Multimedia System you purchased as an optional extra on your car When you collected your car last May it was installed with the latest mapping software available to the motor trade. Lexus like all car retailers in Ireland had to wait until late 2006 for the upgraded mapping software to become available which had improved coverage for Ireland. Up to late 2006 your car had the latest software available. The RDS-TMC set up is not and never has been available in Ireland this isn't a Lexus issue. The system in your car is built for use across Europe where this function is in operation. Upgraded software is available to purchase at a cost of €250 including VAT and installation. Please note that installation can be done while you wait and will take approx thirty minutes. This can be organised etc Unfortunately we cannot offer you a free software upgrade, but I do hope this letter explains our position in relation to the issue." To give you some idea of what we are talking about I went for a drive today to a place called Edenderry a town about 40 miles from Dublin. On this trip I used motorways and regional roads. I stopped here and there to take photos of what the SAT/NAV was showing and then followed with photos of what I could see through the windscreen. You can be certain that this is a normal occurrance in hundreds of places all over Southern Ireland on this SAT/NAV. These are probably huge because I cant work out how to reduce them, sorry about that. They are just a couple of many I took. What do you think of the nice letter I got. I TOOK THE PHOTOS OUT AS THEY ARE TOO BIG/ CAN ANYONE ADVISE HOW TO REDUCE THEM?

Sorry to start a new topic on an old one ,so to speak but the relevant threads are in the IS 200 part of the site. As some of you will know I have had a bee in my bonnet about my sat/nav since I got it. I bought the car in May last year ( ten months ago). In Ireland it is a disaster, almost no coverage in some areas and no traffic avoidance at all ( and this is in the Dublin area, who knows what it is like in the sticks). Its like buying a computer that you are told has windows xp and when you turn it on find it working on windows 3.1. (It works, kind of). I have been mentioning this problem in conversations with people from Lexus and Kinsella Lexus who are the people from whom I bought the car and must say I have had little positive feedback. So decided to take the bull by the horns yesterday when I put the car in for a service and asked straight up if they would replace the disc while they had her in for the day and they said no, they would put in the update and charge me €250, did I want it? what do you think. So I have decided to get a bit bolshie about this as to my mind the thing does not do what it says on the tin and if I had known it was going to be so crappy I would not have bought the MM as this was the main reason for getting it. Also the DVD does not work for the passengers when you are moving so thats at bit of a joke as well. If I can sit in a warm house and watch them I am hardly going to sit in a cold car to do it, so that's another bit of slightly skewed advertising. So I have written a nice letter to the MD of Kinsella Lexus asking them to replace the disc under warranty, as someone else said they don't seem to have any problem spending money on horse racing days and golf days etc so what about spending some on customer satisfaction. Nicnac got his replaced through his dealer so it looks like I,ll have to ask him who he bought the car from for the next time ( if there is a next time). If they don't respond positively I have decided to take this as far as I have to. €5400 plus interest on the loan is a lot of money. For posterity's sake 15000 km service - done. Replace leaking battery under warranty- done. Repair paint that is coming off between the boot and bumper under warranty -to be done. Repair rattle in left front of car- to be done, ( they want her for a couple of days) total cost €266 inc vat. Rant over.

mine does the same, but it's a big crack (fortunately just once a day) like when the stone hits the windscreen I heard that this has been fixed on new cars. It's in the dash, some plastics is in contact with steel, so when it warms up it cracks... Mine does it too, may be once every couple of days or so, quite unerving. Sometimes when I go over a pot hole too... But it is much much better now. Fuel economy is not that much better, evn with the ECU mod. I'm resigned to accepting mid 30-s to low 40's regularly, and 28-30 in town only driving - gently!! +I have mine booked in for first service next week and I was just wondering if they are doing the ECU mod as part of the service or do I have to complain about something. For the record I have a tiny rattle in the front left pillar area and I am also going to have them look at where the boot meets the bumper. Because on my car the paint is so soft that just closing the boot on a dirty bumper causes the dirt on the bumper to mark and scratch the paint on both surfaces. I have also ( for Irish viewers) complained about the sat/nav and asked them to replace it under warranty ( coz its crap) I'll let you know how I get on.

The auto is the car of choice, I have big regrets! You'd have to cover galactic mileage in the manual Diesel over the auto petrol to justify it (or so it is from my experience). maybe Lexus knew this, which is why they are pretty evenly priced! Well it's been one year, and I reckon it's taken them that long to come up with the ECU mod, which so far hasn't seem to have worked. Maybe they haven't a clue... Maybe some of us (majority) just can't drive...or at least can't drive a Lexus economically... I wonder if the government can enforce a re-test to check the actual CO2 tests? I hate the thought of driving a car that kills more squirrels then it should be...or was sold to me as... This is all very poor :duh PS - the theory of higher revs = more economy - well that would make the Sport superbly economical, which I believe it is not....so again, who really knows? Looking at previous posts on this thread I noticed that someone mentioned that the 6th gear could be the nigger in the woodpile. I had also noticed that recently as my engine was freeing itself up, that I had been banging bessie into 6th at 60mph and plonking along at about 1500 rpm, assuming that this was going to give me better mpg. I also noticed that my litres per 100km sign was going in the wrong direction. From about 6.5l/100km up to 8.2l/lm last week. I dont know why I didn't realize it myself but when I read this thread I suddenly had a brainwave and decided to leave 6th gear alone altogether, and lo and behold my l/100kg is back down to 7l/km and going south. So I can say with great confidence STAY OUT OF 6TH if you want any kind of decent mileage. Oh yes, the car goes much better in 5th as well.

Funny you should mention it but my average has gone from 6.5L per 100km to 8L per 100km over the last two tankfulls ( 12,000km on the clock). I just thought it was something I was doing. Maybe I'll keep an eye on it now . I was also thinking of changing my diesel supplier every tank and keeping a record to see if the supplier of the diesel has anything to do with it . Personally I'm more concerned with the crappy looking exhaust pipe. Why cant we have nice shiny ones( is it the heat or something?).

It takes them a while to get back to you, another phone call to Lexus (Irl) wouldn't go amiss. They offer a Lexus privilege card which entitles you to two free rounds of golf per year at Mount Juliet, plus you can bring friends for half price. Free nosh up and Corporate day at the Lexus Chase in Leopardstown at Christmas ( if you can stand the smell of horses) and various cheap weekends away etc. You might as well have it you are paying for it anyway! Myself, I would prefer a new free sat/nav disc plus instructions on how to put it in easily. Did you get your free leather Lexus diary yet?

Lets be honest and recognise that its about as close to the cars we are driving as a dog is to a cat. How long do you think it will be after they are available, until some sad individual is sending away for the badge, sticking an extra two or even three pipes on the back of his/her 220/250. Like the idiots driving a 316i with an M badge.

If it wasn't so sad it would be funny. They give us a crappy 3/4 year old disc for the sat/nav .Charge us through the nose to replace it, don,t even have the decency to apologise and then you have to put a mini atomic bomb under the dash to get it out. How do you spell customer relasunezzz

Great news Nicnac. No rattles here either, and, lets be fair, on roads like we have here, there almost should be rattles. Maybe they give the ones coming here an extra turn of the spanner as they know what lies in front of them. :)

so does this mean there is a new version out the?? If so where did we get it from? Ta www.lexus-mapupdates.eu Check Nicnac's recent post to see how to remove it.

Thanks Barry, When you hear more can you PM me ? Not sure how to use PM as I am computer illiterate. Anyway I just got off the phone to Lexus Ireland after having to ring them back because they didn't come back to me about my query. They say that there is a new edition of the sat/nav available. What you do is this. Remove the old disc. I'm not sure where this is , neither was the guy from the dealer. He thinks it is either in the boot or under a seat. I wonder where he thinks the engine goes :winky: You then check the part number on the disc which should start 86271. You then go to www.Lexus-mapupdates.eu where I am told we can buy our new update by credit card for €159 and we will receive it shortly in a nondescript brown paper bag. Hope this helps.

Just spoke to Lexus Ireland and after we had a good chortle about the sat/nav as it stands. The guy told me that there is an upgrade due within weeks that will cover 95% of the country. He is going to ring me back with dates. I still don't think we are going to have the drive around accidents facility that every other country has, but considering that 95% of the drivers over here are accidents waiting to happen that might not be a bad thing. You should see them on roundabouts

You would want to come over here (Ireland) and try to use the sat/nav. It is so bad as to be useless. Half the roads here including motorways don't exist on it. There is a dearth of information regarding places to go and places to set as destinations ( I have to to to the nearest town centre and ask for directions). It even tried to get me to go the wrong way down a one way street recently. In fact the more I think about it I certainly will not be getting sat/nav in my next Lexus unless there are major issues addressed.

You lucky people! Over here the base 220d is is €43790.00 no extras the base 3.0 GS is €65,100.00 no extras Therefore, to us they are as alike as chalk and cheese. I havn't been in touch for a while as I've nothing to add. The car is just doing its thing no rattles no thumps no wind, no complaints ( except for the###satnav thats made by someone else)

Something I have noticed lately.. I am starting to watch the sat/nav while driving , its better than who wants to be a millionaire. "Name the road that you are on which isn't on the screen" etc. Seriously how do we get away with having a sat/ nav screen going while we are driving yet it is considered unsafe to have a film on for the passengers?.

Regarding above, any reason why the diesel has such a crappy exhaust .Why not one chrome exhaust , is there a problem with heat or something?

Yep that's fair, well except Mini's and Ferrari's........ :P The only thing that can change the fortunes of the IS is how popular it becomes - the old IS did well for so long, because it never sold that great, but was desirable to those who wanted one, hence its values stayed up. The new one seems to be selling much better, but the flip side of that is that if desirability declines, then residuals will tumble. The only affordable car that I've seen that has sold by the bucketload and still maintained great residuals, is the BMW mini I realise that Ireland is slightly different but when I traded in my C180 on my lexi and lost €16000 in 20 months because of all the extras in the merc that I got nothing for ( you NEVER have the right extras). I asked the sales guy what I was looking at dropping per year on the lexi and he told me €7000 (about £4900) He also said that the MM which cost just over €5000 would be worth an extra €2000 on a trade in. When I asked him about the petrol vs diesel he told me he had no idea as it was new to him. Yesterday after looking at this thread I checked a few garage web sites over here and already the diesel is becoming more sought after and more expensive second hand than the petrol. This is probably due to our crazy tax regime which gives you the possibility to claim back VAT on diesel over here if self employed or a company. Also diesel is 10cent (7p) cheaper than petrol over here at about €1.10 (£78p) per litre.

Now that a good few of us have our cars for a while, I thought that it might be a good idea for us to let Lexus know what we think they should have put in our cars ( small extras) that one would expect to have in a car of this price and quality. Can I start the ball rolling with touch up paint.

If you are getting MM do not leave until you are sure that you have some idea of how everything works especially the sat/nav and phone, as it can take ages and many tears to work it out for yourself. If you have not driven diesel before and even if you have, get used to the power bands and especially the cars habit of cutting out at low revs when turning into T junctions and other places you would rather it not cut out on. Dont worry when you have worked it out its not a problem its only a question of getting used to it. I thought insurance was dear over here Full comp no points €630=£425 Happy motoring

I have had mine for a month and a half .Absolutely no rattles but I do have the mirror problem. However as almost no-one here uses their mirrors anyway , maybe I'll just join the sheep. Sorry to belabour a point but THE SAT/NAV IS ABSOLUTE CRAP. Half the towns in Ireland don't exist on it and whoever worked out the routes did so on major roads of which we don't have a lot and we use even less as they are always jammed. Probably with people using their sat/nav. I am delighted with the mileage however, 43mpg average.

I have the same in mine and its not very 05/06.