ganzoom

8 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Just proves the point that UK government is failing when it comes to building the "infrastructure for the future". 

So we seem to be finally getting some facts versus fiction.

Are we all now in agreement there is essentially NO hydrogen fuel cell 'roll out' in the UK. In which case what is the point of hydrogen fuel cell cars in the UK?

8 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

I do not have a car. My wife has a car.

Have a bike. Close to 50K Km on it.

Does she have a hydrogen fuel cell car? How is the hydrogen fuel station roll out going where you live?

47 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

 

This thread is styled  ..  HYDROGEN FUEL ROLLOUT ,,,,,,,,,,,, 

.. 

....and that's what I'm trying to understand. How is it going 6 months into 2023. Apparently the number of Hydrogen fuel stations in the UK is going DOWN not up, so more regression than rollout. 

3 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

Gang. Re the number of hydrogen filling stations. As for cars I personally reckon there's less than 10 in the UK. As for commercial then that's a different kettle of fish. I reckon there's 00's if not a few thousand.

Yes too much fact is fiction and fiction is fact. That's why innocent folk get confused or naffed off.

Oh sorry if you don't understand kettle of fish or naffed. Read story and expletive word. 😁

So there aren't 1000s of hydrogen fuel stations around, and only 5?

1 hour ago, Mr Vlad said:

Oh dear. What started out as an interesting thread has gone downhill and I can see it getting blocked.

I'm personally getting peed off with 'evangelists' who basically preach their self obsessed opinions which they believe is gospel truth. Unfortunately there are a few within this thread who do that.

Do you mean the bit about how hydrogen refueling is about to go mass market but the only real life data says the opposite....ie number of hydrogen fuel stations in the UK is going down not up?

It is really confusing because both cannot be true at the same time. Either real life is fiction or fiction is reality?

10 hours ago, Malc1 said:

Methinks hydrogen power is here to stay and the roll-out for us all could be sooner than many expect ✌️

Malc

Great to hear but when is it happening? I still haven't found a single hydrogen fuel station near me, but I understand there are over 1000+ around?

The only stuff on the Internet I've found says the number of hydrogen fuel stations in the UK has gone DOWN this year to 5....

English isn't my first language so maybe I've misunderstood what 'soon' means?

On 6/21/2023 at 7:20 PM, Las Palmas said:

As soon as the batteries are no longer up to what was promised (7 - 12 years) batteries,

Our EV is 7 years old in 2024 which is next year. At 65k miles there is 5% degredation on the Battery. The suspension parts on the car will need replacing before the Battery.

5 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

That way of thinking led in France to invention of a machine called the guillotine. So what?

Its not the guillotine that's changing the world its the mobile phone. Everyone can now see how 'privileged' we are living in Europe. Burning through resources with no care in the world. The majority of the people on this planet would do anything to have what all of us have, the migration 'issue' in Europe is the realisation on a global scale how so few are living a life off the back of the many, and why that has to change.

But lucky for us Europe, US, China, Russia etc have enough military deterrents to keep the status quo.....for now. 

If global equity and climate change is your main aims in life, than I'm really not sure what your are doing on a car forum, and even less relevant is any thoughts about hydrogen.

The difference between the poorest and richest countries in the world grows larger every day, it will bubble over one day, as 7 billon people realise the only difference between those who have and haven't just happens to be where you are born, and how unfair that is.

We get to 'debate' about hydrogen whilst billions dont even have access to fresh water, is that right? Shouldn't that be a call for a global revolution??...However again, am not sure how hydrogen fuel cell cars have any impact of the real issues facing humanity?

3 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

Yes Gang hydrogen fuel stations have closed down. I can't remember which company they belonged to but yes they closed them down. But from what I read they were closed for modernisation.

When do we think we'll hit say 10 hydrogen fuel stations in the UK if the current number is 5......end of 2023? It really cannot be that hard to install 5 stations in 6 months? 

Isn't this thread about hydrogen fuel station roll out??

It appears the number of UK hydrogen fuel station is going DOWN, not up?? Can any of our hydrogen fuel cell car owners confirm this or is this just 'fake news'?? According to some there are now just FIVE hydrogen fuel stations in the UK, where as I thought the forum members on here suggest there was 1000+???

https://innovationorigins.com/en/first-shell-now-motive-hydrogen-fuel-station-closures-continue-in-the-uk/

https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/transport/exclusive-shell-has-quietly-closed-down-all-its-hydrogen-filling-stations-in-the-uk/2-1-1335049

Meanwhile earlier this year a 42 charge point hub opened at Oxford, and construction has now started on a hub at Exeter services that can charge 57 EVs at once. 

I'm really struggling to tell the difference between fact and fiction these days, because the commentary by our hydrogen experts on here seem to suggest EVs are dead and hydrogen is the answer, but IRL information doesn't seem to support the commentary?

Any one know the real FACTs here?

13 hours ago, Shahpor said:

Lastly, I feel it is unfair to lay the blame for all the environmental impact of fossil fuels on EV's as it completely negates the fact that most of the power is used by households and businesses.  Do EV's contribute to the problem?  Of course they do, but then so do all powered modes of transport. 

It's our lifestyles which is the cause of climate change, but how many of us are actually willing to change our lifesytles? No more holiday's, no imported foods, certainly no gadgets or new cloths/fashion. Essentially a total move away from 'consumerism'. 

I for one cannot, so like the residents on Easter Island I'm content in the knowledge when the inevitable end comes I'll be long gone, and most likely anyone I know or care about. Selfish, but its the uncomfortable for the vast majority of people. We are way past little changes, but a reform in lifesytle/aspirations just isn't going to happen.

23 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

Why we need to talk about clean or green hydrogen so much is hypocritical. It is coming, but not in a day or two.

Actually if you really care abou the environment you should be joining the likes of Rebllion Exctinction. We DONT need ANY NEW cars of any kind, ALL car companies are the problem not the solution. It doesn't matter what powers a car our obsession with personal 'freedom of transport' is NOT sustainable for the planet. Cars of any kind is the problem.

I accept I'm part of the problem and don't pretend to care about that like some on here. The UK is clearly warming up, my answer, we are getting Aircon installed in the house, so creating even more pollution for the planet and worsening climate change.....but at least we'll have Aircon in the house.

Don't lobby for hydrogen if you REALLY want to action on climate change, lobby for increased taxation on ALL CARS, road tax, higher corporation tax. Essentially make it so expensive to run ANY car, and force people to use other forms of transport or accept a change in life style. 

Hydrogen is BP/Shell version of snake oil, its not an answer to anything.

21 hours ago, ScottAdams86 said:

The full service history is there. Seems fine, recent as February and only general maintenance. @ikeja How long before I need to worry about replacing the hybrid battery? 150k km? Or around 15 years age? It's from 2014 and only done 94k km.

You don't need to worry about the hybrid Battery, there is a reason pretty much every private hire vehicle these days is a Toyota hybrid.

15 hours ago, Steve_S said:

I find it very unlikely that green hydrogen will prove to be significantly cheaper in terms of cost per mile for fuelling a transport fleet than direct charging of BEVs. Water may be abundant as a source for green hydrogen but it is abundant for a reason. Hydrogen and Oxygen form strong bonds and it takes considerable energy to split them via electrolysis. 

 

Basic GCSE science is no match for the BP/Shell forecourts. Producing and disturbing pure hydrogen compressed to the same pressure as water at the bottom of ocean is so easy you just wait. All those BP/Shell forecourts current selling a liquid fossil fuels that don't react unless exposed to direct heat will be able to handle hydrogen with no issues.

According to some there over 1600 hydrogen fuel stations in the UK!!!  

I'm struggling to understand why no one here owns a hydrogen fuel cell car though, given how easy and freely available hydrogen forecourts are??

3 hours ago, Shahpor said:

Whilst that is indeed his prerogative, I do find it somewhat childish and closed minded.  Also, isn't the whole point of a forum to talk about different points of view?

The emerging evidence is the opposite, forums tend to gather similar minded people, and even with filtering, to an extent new knowledge/thought process become impossible to form.  

https://bpspsychub.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/bjso.12286

@ShahporDon't forget hydrogen fuel cells cars some how magically have NONE of the 'problems' EVs have......

The fact companies like BP/Shell are still trying to promote hydrogen as the answer to the world's problems proves it. Because we all know how much BP/Shell cares about the planet 🤣.

But what do we know, its clearly the rest of the world is full of unenlightened people, and some individuals here have the answer to everything but instead of acting on their knowledge they seem to think a random car forum is the way to change world.........Maybe they know something we don't about power dynamics and global strategy 🤔

57 minutes ago, DBIZO said:

EVs likely encourage higher-mileage driving behaviour for often beneficial mileage cost, further encouraged by the sustainability myth.

We do loads of unnecessary miles in our EV, but not because I believe in tree hugging, but because I have access to FREE charging forever on the current car.

Just planning our summer road trip to Italy, on the way back will swing by Stelvio :).

I personally didnt buy an EV to be green, I bought one because it let's me run a sub 5 second to 60mph SUV for less money than our IS300H. Why woudlnt you drive it everywhere if you had essentially free fuel :).

54 minutes ago, DBIZO said:

 

An ongoing research based out of the UK suggests particles from EV rubber can be much higher, about 20% on average, that of engine cars due to higher loads but also because of higher torque will wear the tyre faster.
 

EVs make air quality worse, maybe except in central London where the traffic is very slow stop and go.

You cannot be serious? Or are you?

The tires on our 2.5ton EV lasts 20k+ miles. Tires on my old BMW 335i barely made it past 10k, and my only DC2 Integra Type R barely 8k. 

My last two combustion cars also chewed through brake pads+discs every 15k or so, the EV has needed only one set of new pads+discs in over 65k miles.

23 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

This is perhaps the outright Best article on cars to date. Presented articulately and in a language anyone can understand. 

Mr R Atkinson deserves a huge thanks from us 'petrolheads' and a massive pat on the back.

I just hope those thick headed brain dead politicians read that article and take note.

The best point about the article is recognition that ALL CARS are the problem, regardless of how they are powered.

We returned from our half term holiday from Scotland this weekend, it took nearly 9hrs to cover just 330 miles.

This wasn't because of our EV, but because there are so many cars are the roads everywhere where even 3/4 Lane Mways became car parks.

We ofcourse added to the 'problem', was there a real 'need' for us to travel to Scotland for a holiday - ofcourse not. But with personal transportation so cheap why wouldn't you??

The real irony is Scotland was experiencing unusually warm weather - 24 degrees. But instead of thinking, maybe we are contributing to global warning with unnecessary travel, my thought was - If Scotland warmed up, it would be a great holiday destination all year round!!!

The answer to the 'problem' of EVs, is actually very clear, cheap personal transportation is simply not sustainable in anyway or form. But as long as we all have air con and our own homes don't get flooded, most us really don't care enough to modify our behaviour.

9 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

Absolutely. Will I recommend electric bikes? Absolutely not.

I'm not sure why some people like cycling but not eBikes? 

Any bike is better than any car in my book. I love my Creo, let's me explore places cars cannot go - 250watts boost for 10% gravel inclines is amazing, but almost as quick as 'proper' roadside on leg power alone when on rolling tarmac.

We are currently in Scotland for half term, EVs really are a bad problem here, they are such as nusience.....especially the 2 wheeled version. I wonder when a H2 powered pedal bike is coming:)

14 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

What a bunch on nonsense.

Where will they get the power grid that can deliver the power to supercharge and so far, electricity is still made from cheapest power source meaning that somewhere coal is being burnt to make electricity and most places oil.

And where does pure, compressed hydrogen come from or even how you transport it.

How far do you think your get at air security if you told them you were carrying 0.5kg liquid hydrogen compressed to 700bar in the suite case???

Hydrogen is an amazing fuel source, its literally the building blocks of the Universe. But to try and use for going to Asda.....why would you bother when there so many easier ways.

All stores of energy can combust.....laws of physics can be mitigated but never bypassed.

Hydrogen is what fuels the sun, its the most reactive element in the periodic table. Luckily the world has never seen a Hydrogen bomb used in anger, but let's use it for personal transportation, what could go wrong?

https://youtu.be/fYuVzbIu_8o

5 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

Which also will reduce the life span of the batteries

How long do hydrogen fuel cell stacks last in the real world? 

11 hours ago, flotsam said:

An american company has revived the idea of battery swapping. Most EVs need

So, after all the demanding of a straight answer from Malc.,you offer a facetious answer yourself!

Can we have a straight answer please?

Answer on what Battery swap stations?

That was done and tried years ago, no one used them.

https://www.tesla.com/blog/battery-swap-pilot-program

We've actually just come back from a 330 mile weekend trip. The EV was only ever charged using a domestic UK socket. The beauty of EVs is the 'fuel' infrastructure is literally every where already. The last time we used M way charger was Feb, so coming up to 4 months ago.

Shame you cannot do the same hydrogen fuel cell cars.