Rear Speakers/ amp issue

[JC12]

Hi All.. I have a lex  is220d SE - i 2009 facelift.

While the front speakers sound great... The rear speakers in my car are absolutely shocking.

Just wanted to check a couple of things please. I do not have the nav unit or ML sound system / amp.

- The Amp part code is 86280 -53160 and only lists Front, Front-woofer, Rear  on the label... which I assume means there is not meant to be a sub / rear woofer attached? Is this the case? 

- If the above is true can you please confirm if i am only meant to have the lower 6inch speaker in the rear door? I currently do not have the mid and high speakers. 

- Finally - if Im only meant to have the lower rear speakers... do they usually sound like tin pots? Or do you think the amp, speakers are broken.. literlaly zero bass coming from them. they sound rubbish! 

Thank you!!

 

[Mr Vlad]

Hi Joel. How lo g have you had this car, if its a good while has the sound deteriorated over time or been naff since you got the car? On the rear doors, how many grills can you see on each door panel? If you say the front sounds good but rear naff then it's probably the speakers themselves. To test if it's the amp try swapping over the speaker wires from front to rear. If the fro t then sounds naff then it's the amp. If the front still sounds good then you know it's the rear speakers. Your car won't have a sub btw. 

There are lots of ways to improve the sound in your car, best to find a car hifi shop for Info and advice. 

[JC12]

28 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

Hi Joel. How lo g have you had this car, if its a good while has the sound deteriorated over time or been naff since you got the car? On the rear doors, how many grills can you see on each door panel? If you say the front sounds good but rear naff then it's probably the speakers themselves. To test if it's the amp try swapping over the speaker wires from front to rear. If the fro t then sounds naff then it's the amp. If the front still sounds good then you know it's the rear speakers. Your car won't have a sub btw. 

There are lots of ways to improve the sound in your car, best to find a car hifi shop for Info and advice. 

Thanks for this... only had it for a couple of weeks.

The rear door card has 3 grills lower, mid and high.. but when you take the door card off the middle and high are blocked off.. not like someone has done it.. it looks factory and there are no other wires hanging around and does not look like it has been tampered with.

I think it might be the amp as have some other speakers I plugged in (again OEM but used) and they too sounded like tins.... just want to know if anyone elses sound like this and KNOW the amp is working... cos if they do then there is no point in changing the amp! Ive had really basic oem speakers in cars before and def dont sound this tinny.. so maybe it is the amp.

How do i know which wires to swap front and back? And do they just pull out of the holes in the plug that goes into the amp? Im not very good with soldering etc!! 

 

Thanks

 

[Mr Vlad]

I'm not sure which wires are for the speakers. Best to pull the headunit out, watch YouTube videos on this before you try. But before you try that, have you played about with the tone buttons? Try turning up the bass. Also there's a product (name of it escapes me) which looks like a bowler hat but made of a certain foam. It acts like a box and it does give a good bass. You could also put some sound deadening stuff on the door panels. 

[JC12]

1 hour ago, Mr Vlad said:

I'm not sure which wires are for the speakers. Best to pull the headunit out, watch YouTube videos on this before you try. But before you try that, have you played about with the tone buttons? Try turning up the bass. Also there's a product (name of it escapes me) which looks like a bowler hat but made of a certain foam. It acts like a box and it does give a good bass. You could also put some sound deadening stuff on the door panels. 

Yes bass is all the way up.. again front ones sound fine and as they should. Don't think it will be an issue round back of head unit as the amp is in the boot. 

[Mr Vlad]

So amp in the boot that's good, you should see which wires are the speaker ones you might have to Google which wires are which and swap them over just to check the amp. If it's amp then it'll be easy to swap though wiring it might fox you but a wiring diagram would be useful. 

[Gp01]

Does anyone know if the ml amplifier is a direct fit for the standard one and would it be an upgrade over standard thanks

[Linas.P]

4 hours ago, Gp01 said:

Does anyone know if the ml amplifier is a direct fit for the standard one and would it be an upgrade over standard thanks

No they are completely different... It would be an upgrade if you figure out how to connect it, but connection is completely different both between amp and head-unit and amp to speakers... and it is optical connection as well, so not a simple thing to just figure out the pin-out. Not saying it can't be done, but it is very far from straight forward. 

I guess in theory if you take ML head-unit and amp... and wiring then it would work... but then you would need to upgrade the speakers as well... at which point we are retrofitting whole ML system.

[H3XME]

20 hours ago, Linas.P said:

I guess in theory if you take ML head-unit and amp... and wiring then it would work... but then you would need to upgrade the speakers as well... at which point we are retrofitting whole ML system.

and at that point you're better off going for aftermarket setup because it'll be cheaper or similar money and it'll be more powerful. The good thing about cars without the M&L system is that it's possible and it's quite easy. Cars with M&L have bigger issues. You can't just put a better sub in, you'll need a new amp, but you'll also need a different head unit.. Mind you, sometimes putting a good aftermarket head unit in will help with sound quality on its own.

[Linas.P]

2 minutes ago, H3XME said:

and at that point you're better off going for aftermarket setup because it'll be cheaper or similar money and it'll be more powerful. The good thing about cars without the M&L system is that it's possible and it's quite easy. Cars with M&L have bigger issues. You can't just put a better sub in, you'll need a new amp, but you'll also need a different head unit.. Mind you, sometimes putting a good aftermarket head unit in will help with sound quality on its own.

Yeah I didn't say it is good idea to retrofit ML. As for fitting the sub... it is doable e.g. if it active sub with autosensing amp. 

[EP80]

18 hours ago, H3XME said:

and at that point you're better off going for aftermarket setup because it'll be cheaper or similar money and it'll be more powerful. The good thing about cars without the M&L system is that it's possible and it's quite easy. Cars with M&L have bigger issues. You can't just put a better sub in, you'll need a new amp, but you'll also need a different head unit.. Mind you, sometimes putting a good aftermarket head unit in will help with sound quality on its own.

Why is the non ML system easier? I thought that the main limitation of fitting an aftermarket amp/sub using the standard HU, ML or Standard is that both are fitted with a high pass filter of roughly 40hz, so any low bass is filtered out. Are there other issues?

[Mr Vlad]

Where did you get that info from Red? If that is the case where either system amp has a high pass filter of 40Hz then any subwoofer can be fitted.

[Linas.P]

ML is optical, whereas standard amp is normal analog signal. So that makes it difficult to connect anything else between HU and AMP. After AMP in theory it is analog again, so you can probably piggyback after AMP, it is just not ideal to take signal after it was already amplified. So I guess that is what makes ML more complex.

[EP80]

3 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

Where did you get that info from Red? If that is the case where either system amp has a high pass filter of 40Hz then any subwoofer can be fitted.

I have seen it mentioned a couple of times on the North American forums, see post #17 of following link for example. Mentions 35hz HPF. 

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-f-2008-2014/655856-added-sub-ml-still-needs-help-with-bass-2.html

Taking cabin gain which is theoretically 12db/oct into account, that shouldn't be a problem for most people. Personally, despite the disadvantages I prefer subwoofers to play lower whether they are in a car or not. There are several ways to boost the signal and remove the HPF obviously but all adds complication & money. I would also wonder about using an aftermarket HU, as you will loose all of the factory DSP settings built into the amplifier.

3 hours ago, Linas.P said:

ML is optical, whereas standard amp is normal analog signal. So that makes it difficult to connect anything else between HU and AMP. After AMP in theory it is analog again, so you can probably piggyback after AMP, it is just not ideal to take signal after it was already amplified. So I guess that is what makes ML more complex.

Thanks for explaining. Would probably be best to use the sub speaker cable into a high level input on an aftermarket amp in that case, good to know about Optical input connection 

[Mr Vlad]

Some very interesting reading there Red. Went on to read about an almost full install with 3 amps and a superb fitting 2 speaker sub box. Them there yanks don't arf go OTT sometimes lol.