How Not To Buy A Car - An Update

[Boothby Coggles]

Sorry about this being a bit long, but there's a lot I need to get off my chest, and this is quite a good form of therapy to get rid of some of my stress.

In mid March I posted "A Sorry Tale Of Woe" about the 220d I bought from the Lexus dealer that I work as a casual driver for. The previous post was left at the point where I had been offered a replacement car & they were looking for another one, and I was considering a 250 SE Auto as a preferred replacement.

In late February the DP offered me a refund or a replacement, and I opted for the latter as it would save me having to look for something else. Had I had known then that at the start of May I would still not have the replacement I would have "bitten his hand off" for the refund.

Since February the Sales Manager has never contacted, or voluntarily spoken to me about (lack of) progress on the matter, even when I have been in to the garage in connection with collecting or delivering a car for him. It has always been me that has had to bring the subject up. The only times he has contacted me was the day after the original offer to say that he hadn't found one and that he would keep looking, and one day in mid March I had a call from him to make me "the offer of a lifetime"; a new car for an additional £9,900!!!! I turned it down - To me that had the hint of a trade-in more than a replacement. Later, I had to tell him that my flexibility extended to £200 or so either way.

Whenever I have spoken to him he has always said that he is still looking and gave his reasons for not finding one as there being none at the right price or mileage, or on one occasion because they were in worse condition than mine, and so on.

He said originally that he had been told that I wanted one the same as what I already had, whereupon I said that my answer to the DP when he asked what spec replacement I wanted was that I would accept anything as long as it wasn't black or cadoxton.

As I said, I kept getting the "can't find one, still looking" response, so I kept widening the parameters to give him a better chance. This included saying I was flexible on the price, (hence the new one for an extra £10k opportunism?), multi media not being critical, the preference for the 250 SE etc. I eventually had to tell him not to bother about MM, I would have a car without, nice toy as it is, it isn't that important to me.

On one occasion I told him that I was keeping an eye on the Lexus website and as an example quoted a Nov 05 55 plate 250 for about the right price.

When I broached the subject of the 250 he did say it would be better for my needs and would widen the options for him. And so it has gone on.

I last asked him if he had found a replacement in Mid April and the answer was still the same.

Things came to a head over the weekend of 19/20 April when I made a list of what 250 SE Autos were advertised on the Lexus site, within a radius of 130 miles and were, in my eyes, worthy of consideration based on age & price. I never got round to looking at 220d models, but I am sure I would have found some!

The following Monday I went in to the dealership to see him about this list but he said he was busy, which was probably true as one of the company directors was there with some one else who was probably also from head-office. The Sales Manager said he would ring me in the afternoon.

Come Wednesday morning He still hadn't rung, so I went up there with my list of 19 cars, not in the best of moods.

He was in his office with one of the salesmen and kept me waiting for some minutes, but couldn't have mistaken my mood from the expression on my face & my body language. When I did get to him I reminded him that he had said he would ring me on Monday afternoon & had not done so. He apologised & said he had forgotten! At this point the frustration of it all boiled up & I went nuclear.

I told him about the list of 19 and his explanation was that dealers would not always release advertised cars within the trade, which I accept. I gave him little chance to say more, and told him that he needed to contact the DP as I was taking the matter to head office, Lexus GB and I would have it dealt with under the Sale Of Goods Act and walked.

An hour or so later he rang me at home. He started by accusing me of having spoken to him as if he were dirt.

(My wife does say that I can be very harsh & cruel!). Anyway, that was just his perception, I certainly didn't mean it that way. He then went on to say that he had found 3 cars, a black one, (despite my having said all along that I didn't want black), a sports model & a "silver one" with grey leather, but it didn't have MM. I said that would be o.k., but he then went on about it being an '07 with lower mileage and that it would cost £1500 on top, as a 250 is more expensive car that the 220, and that if he put both up for sale side by side then the difference in price would be about £3.5k.

How come he could find 3 in an hour or so, when he hadn't been able to find one for over 2month?

When he came down to an extra £1200 I said o.k., as I am wanting this over & done with but it is outside my parameters. I said that this agreement was subject to my looking at it etc to check that it was o.k. He said I would be able to look at it when it had been collected. He didn't say anything about looking at it after it had been prepped. That was 8 days ago, and he's not been in touch!

Now I know, from personal experience, that when he buys a car in from elsewhere he, quite rightly, wants it in straight away, prepped & out on the pitch for sale.

Why haven't I had a call to say he's got it & will ring me when it's been prepped, or to say that it's no good, or that the other dealer had changed had changed their mind?

Today, I have been ringing solicitors to see about the matter & will be having an appointment next week, all being well. The only drawback here is the possible expense of going that way, but I most definitely will if necessary. If I do I will most definitely want my legal expenses covered if possible.

I am pretty sure that the DP is not aware of the situation, as he never brought up the subject of my replacement when I had to give him a lift. I didn't bring it up with him as I felt it would be unfair on the sales manager to go behind his back and over his head, but may be I should have.

The DP, I think was very reasonable about offering me a refund or replacement with virtually no quibble. So I may, before I hit the red button with the solicitor, write to the DP & let him know about my trials & tribulations; If I contact head office, Lexus, etc. first it will probably be like firing an Exocet at him, and that I think is, again, unfair.

One final note, guess who hasn't had a phone call from the sales department asking me to collect or deliver a car in the last 8 days?

Thanks for your patience and tenacity for getting to the end.

[Boothby Coggles]

An Afterthought:

Does anyone have any ideas how Lexus would react to this fiasco?

Thanks

Boothby

Sorry about this being a bit long, but there's a lot I need to get off my chest, and this is quite a good form of therapy to get rid of some of my stress.

In mid March I posted "A Sorry Tale Of Woe" about the 220d I bought from the Lexus dealer that I work as a casual driver for. The previous post was left at the point where I had been offered a replacement car & they were looking for another one, and I was considering a 250 SE Auto as a preferred replacement.

In late February the DP offered me a refund or a replacement, and I opted for the latter as it would save me having to look for something else. Had I had known then that at the start of May I would still not have the replacement I would have "bitten his hand off" for the refund.

Since February the Sales Manager has never contacted, or voluntarily spoken to me about (lack of) progress on the matter, even when I have been in to the garage in connection with collecting or delivering a car for him. It has always been me that has had to bring the subject up. The only times he has contacted me was the day after the original offer to say that he hadn't found one and that he would keep looking, and one day in mid March I had a call from him to make me "the offer of a lifetime"; a new car for an additional £9,900!!!! I turned it down - To me that had the hint of a trade-in more than a replacement. Later, I had to tell him that my flexibility extended to £200 or so either way.

Whenever I have spoken to him he has always said that he is still looking and gave his reasons for not finding one as there being none at the right price or mileage, or on one occasion because they were in worse condition than mine, and so on.

He said originally that he had been told that I wanted one the same as what I already had, whereupon I said that my answer to the DP when he asked what spec replacement I wanted was that I would accept anything as long as it wasn't black or cadoxton.

As I said, I kept getting the "can't find one, still looking" response, so I kept widening the parameters to give him a better chance. This included saying I was flexible on the price, (hence the new one for an extra £10k opportunism?), multi media not being critical, the preference for the 250 SE etc. I eventually had to tell him not to bother about MM, I would have a car without, nice toy as it is, it isn't that important to me.

On one occasion I told him that I was keeping an eye on the Lexus website and as an example quoted a Nov 05 55 plate 250 for about the right price.

When I broached the subject of the 250 he did say it would be better for my needs and would widen the options for him. And so it has gone on.

I last asked him if he had found a replacement in Mid April and the answer was still the same.

Things came to a head over the weekend of 19/20 April when I made a list of what 250 SE Autos were advertised on the Lexus site, within a radius of 130 miles and were, in my eyes, worthy of consideration based on age & price. I never got round to looking at 220d models, but I am sure I would have found some!

The following Monday I went in to the dealership to see him about this list but he said he was busy, which was probably true as one of the company directors was there with some one else who was probably also from head-office. The Sales Manager said he would ring me in the afternoon.

Come Wednesday morning He still hadn't rung, so I went up there with my list of 19 cars, not in the best of moods.

He was in his office with one of the salesmen and kept me waiting for some minutes, but couldn't have mistaken my mood from the expression on my face & my body language. When I did get to him I reminded him that he had said he would ring me on Monday afternoon & had not done so. He apologised & said he had forgotten! At this point the frustration of it all boiled up & I went nuclear.

I told him about the list of 19 and his explanation was that dealers would not always release advertised cars within the trade, which I accept. I gave him little chance to say more, and told him that he needed to contact the DP as I was taking the matter to head office, Lexus GB and I would have it dealt with under the Sale Of Goods Act and walked.

An hour or so later he rang me at home. He started by accusing me of having spoken to him as if he were dirt.

(My wife does say that I can be very harsh & cruel!). Anyway, that was just his perception, I certainly didn't mean it that way. He then went on to say that he had found 3 cars, a black one, (despite my having said all along that I didn't want black), a sports model & a "silver one" with grey leather, but it didn't have MM. I said that would be o.k., but he then went on about it being an '07 with lower mileage and that it would cost £1500 on top, as a 250 is more expensive car that the 220, and that if he put both up for sale side by side then the difference in price would be about £3.5k.

How come he could find 3 in an hour or so, when he hadn't been able to find one for over 2month?

When he came down to an extra £1200 I said o.k., as I am wanting this over & done with but it is outside my parameters. I said that this agreement was subject to my looking at it etc to check that it was o.k. He said I would be able to look at it when it had been collected. He didn't say anything about looking at it after it had been prepped. That was 8 days ago, and he's not been in touch!

Now I know, from personal experience, that when he buys a car in from elsewhere he, quite rightly, wants it in straight away, prepped & out on the pitch for sale.

Why haven't I had a call to say he's got it & will ring me when it's been prepped, or to say that it's no good, or that the other dealer had changed had changed their mind?

Today, I have been ringing solicitors to see about the matter & will be having an appointment next week, all being well. The only drawback here is the possible expense of going that way, but I most definitely will if necessary. If I do I will most definitely want my legal expenses covered if possible.

I am pretty sure that the DP is not aware of the situation, as he never brought up the subject of my replacement when I had to give him a lift. I didn't bring it up with him as I felt it would be unfair on the sales manager to go behind his back and over his head, but may be I should have.

The DP, I think was very reasonable about offering me a refund or replacement with virtually no quibble. So I may, before I hit the red button with the solicitor, write to the DP & let him know about my trials & tribulations; If I contact head office, Lexus, etc. first it will probably be like firing an Exocet at him, and that I think is, again, unfair.

One final note, guess who hasn't had a phone call from the sales department asking me to collect or deliver a car in the last 8 days?

Thanks for your patience and tenacity for getting to the end.

[Steve ( West Mids )]

You are very patient.

I would without question now ask for the refund ( bankers draft ) as he has defaulted on his promise to supply a replacement.

Then look up on autotrader / Lexus.co.uk for another one and go and buy it at the weekend, make sure it's not from the same group ( if the last one came from a mulit-dealership ) and put this bad experience behind you.

[Boothby Coggles]

You are very patient.

I would without question now ask for the refund ( bankers draft ) as he has defaulted on his promise to supply a replacement.

Then look up on autotrader / Lexus.co.uk for another one and go and buy it at the weekend, make sure it's not from the same group ( if the last one came from a mulit-dealership ) and put this bad experience behind you.

Thanks for that Steve. I'm not sure that I want another Lexus If I have a refund, much as I love the cars. Another one might be too much of a reminder of the grief & hassle I've had & am continuing to get every time I get in to it.

The dealership is part of a fairly large group with 3 or 4 other Lexus garages and I don't think this is normal treatment that they give to a customer. I am wondering if the root of the problem revolves around my being a casual employee, and I maybe I am seen as an insignificant one who just happens to have bought a car, rather than a "conventional" customer. Also there is the fact that the current sales manager was lumbered with a problem which started before he was moved in to replace the previous one who was shifted to another, none-Lexus, dealership in the group. I cannot help but get the feeling that maybe he just wants it all to go away and has little interest in solving things. I certainly don't suspect that higher management are aware of and condone the apparent inaction and disinterest of one individual.

Thanks again for your interest

Boothby

[chandru]

out of curiousty which dealer is it? PM if you dont want to publicize it atm. before you seek legal advice/lexus GB advice go to the DP that u already have a "relationship" with.

[Parthiban]

I don't mean to sound rude here but as Steve said you've been very patient, and in my opinion far too patient. I'd never waste that much time with a salesman. Before starting legal proceedings, arrange to have a meeting with the principal and explain the situation. If he says he can sort it, then give him a chance. I wouldn't give him any more than a week. If nothing still happens, get in touch with Lexus GB, and get your solicitors to fire a letter at them both.

I'm pretty sure that will get things started so you won't actually need to take anything to court............

I hope it works out well as it sounds like a really horrible situation, I really feel for you. But I wouldn't give up on the cars, because of this dealer, make sure you get yourself a good car, then switch to using a different dealer, and all will be forgotten, trust me (I've had quite testing troubles with one dealership in the past and I know when you can start to get fed up with the car as well through no fault of it's own, but it all works out in the end!)

[Boothby Coggles]

Thanks Parthiban,

As you say I now agree, with the benefit of hindsight, that I have been far too patient. I'm in the process of drafting a letter to the principal, which if I get it finished, I will deliver to him today if i can get hold of him. I appreciate what you say about meeting him but I feel that if I do that instead of writing I could get sidetracked & not say everything that needs to be said. Once he's got he letter then I'll obviously be more than happy to meet & discuss it further with him.

As to giving him a week, my problem is time, in that under the Sale of Goods Act there is a 6 month deadline, which will expire on 20 May. Inside that deadline it is for the retailer to prove what I am saying is incorrect, after that the burden of proof reverts to my having to prove my case, not that that should be too much of a problem. After 30 years in the police I have learnt the importance of making notes at the time, so I have got plenty to hit them with in court should it end up there.

Thanks again

Boothby

Likewise, I don't expect it to end up in court. The DP was pretty reasonable in the first place over offering me a replacement & I imagine that he will not argue etc. too much.

Regards

Boothby

I don't mean to sound rude here but as Steve said you've been very patient, and in my opinion far too patient. I'd never waste that much time with a salesman. Before starting legal proceedings, arrange to have a meeting with the principal and explain the situation. If he says he can sort it, then give him a chance. I wouldn't give him any more than a week. If nothing still happens, get in touch with Lexus GB, and get your solicitors to fire a letter at them both.

I'm pretty sure that will get things started so you won't actually need to take anything to court............

I hope it works out well as it sounds like a really horrible situation, I really feel for you. But I wouldn't give up on the cars, because of this dealer, make sure you get yourself a good car, then switch to using a different dealer, and all will be forgotten, trust me (I've had quite testing troubles with one dealership in the past and I know when you can start to get fed up with the car as well through no fault of it's own, but it all works out in the end!)

[dgman]

i would go for the money back without a doubt.

[Steve ( West Mids )]

I suspect Sale of Goods won't matter, as they have already accepted laibility and offered refund or replacement then breach of that contract ( verbal or written ) will come into play in addition.

I've forgotten what are you driving now? Is it the heap they tried to pass off as a Lexus? If so I strongly you give then the keys and paperwork back 7 days after this final letter .................

[Boothby Coggles]

Thanks for that Steve.

I have completed my letter to the DP, all 3 A4 pages of it. I left a message for the DP on his mobile and he rang me back shortly after.

He was out of town, at a 3rd group dealership, (I wonder if he's DP there as well?). I have left my letter on his desk at the none Lexus site in town, at his request, for him to collect when he gets there some time after 1600. May be the ordure will at that point fly out of electrical rotary air cooling appliance?

When he rang me he was very amiable etc and during our brief conversation I learnt that he didn't know that I had not yet had my replacement, so nothing has been said to him by the SM.

The DP has promised to ring me back on Tuesday, so I will await developments.

I will post again in due course for the benefit of those of you who have been good enough to give me your thoughts and advice, and for anyone else who might have a passing interest.

Steve, it's an '06 220d SE with MM. The problem all along has been the extensive stone chipping, otherwise it's pretty much as I would expect a car of its age, mileage etc.

Thanks again to you all

Boothby

[Boothby Coggles]

Latest on this saga.

I'm not going to go in to great length about the latest developments as it would probably only be a bit on the boring side.

Suffice to say that I haven't had my money back, or a replacement vehicle, despite one "false alarm", when I was told that they had found a car ehich then became unavailable. I was left in the position of them continiuing to look for one but "it might takle some time!. I subesquently sent another 3 pager to the Principal and waiting for his reply, (deadline Monday).

In the meantime I have spoken again to my local Trading Standards who advised to take it to a solicitor under the Sale of Goods Act, and the credit card companies involved as they have a liability, the deposit for the car having been paid by credit card.

AND the T.S. civil section has also referred it to their criminal section under the Trading Standards Act as a matter of misrepresentation of goods.

[Parthiban]

Damn I can't believe this is still going on! :o

What have Lexus GB had to say about all this? This is totally unacceptable in my view, I think it's time you get your solicitor to fire a letter to the dealership in question with intent to legal proceedings

[Boothby Coggles]

Hi Parthiban,

Yes it is :shutit:

Won't go on at great length about it unless you want me to.

After going nuclear at the Sales Manager a few days ago I walked out of his office with the parting shot that I would take the matter to Lexus, Company Group HQ & deal with it thro' the sale of goods act. 30 minutes later he rang me at home & accused me of having spoken to him as if he were dirt . He then said he had found 3, (after nearly 3 months of not being able to find one :arrrggg-matey: )! I opted for one at a higher price, subject to inspection etc.. 9 days later I hadn't heard any more so I fire off a 3 page letter to the DP. He said he would get back to me when he had read it, (about 4 days hence). However he rang me the day, (Saturday of the Bank Holiday from the garage) with a story about not being able to get the car until the following Tuesday due to a bereavemnt associated with the seller.

Bumped in to the SM on the Wednesday who told me that the car had been sold by the seller's partner :eerrrmm: . That and other things the SM said was enough. I sent the DP another 3 pager saying I wanted my money back in full giving a deadline. That is up tomorrow.

I've been in touch with local Trading Standards & updated them & it has been referred to their criminal section in relation to isrepresentation of a motor vehicle under the Trading Standards Act. In the meantime, depending on the response I get tomorrow I'm going to Lexus, probably the relevant company director & a solicitor.

Regards

Boothby

Damn I can't believe this is still going on! :o

What have Lexus GB had to say about all this? This is totally unacceptable in my view, I think it's time you get your solicitor to fire a letter to the dealership in question with intent to legal proceedings