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Camber Problem After Fitting Eibachs


oedipus
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HELP! :(

Recently I got my car lowered with an Eibach pro kit. Now I have a geometry problem...

My street approval (or how is this called in EN) ends next Wednesday, must be sorted by then or... :megaangry:

What happened?

Lowering with Eibach Pro kit, installed from Belgian Eibach dealer, incl. a geometry checkup.

Street approval (you call it MOT?) at the testcentre > NOK, front camber is out of allowed tolerances!! :duh:

Camber : L -1°45' >< Lexus tolerance = -0°51'<x<+0°09'

R -1°44' >< Lexus tolerance = -0°51'<x<+0°09'

I though, ok, errors happen so I take it to the shop to get it within the fork. But my tyrecenter couldn't get it within the tolerances! The concentric axis on the suspension to adjust the camber is maxed out. He could adjust the camber to a maximum of -1°01'. So where should I get the remaining 10' from?? :hocus-pokus:

Did anyone have this problem before? I already PM'd WIM with this, but I think this could be interesting for others out there facing the same problem now or in the future.

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There's something wrong there, because you still should be able to adjust camber within range with something like an Eibach Pro kit (that's the same springs as the TTE springs, I think). I have TTE springs and my geometry was set by WIM without problem.

Maybe you've got damaged suspension, or maybe you've just got an operator who doesn't really know what he's doing ?

You might want to join LOC as a Gold member if you want Tony from WIM to help you though, because in effect he's going to be helping your garage to increase their knowledge, as well as helping you, and he's previously said he can only really justify the large amount of time to do this for LOC Gold members.

EDIT - you can read Tony's own words on this here.

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Maybe you've got damaged suspension, or maybe you've just got an operator who doesn't really know what he's doing ?

Yep, these thoughts also crossed my mind. Another thought is whether the used specs were right for my car. Called dealer, who got me in contact with the aftersales manager. He sent me three scans from workshop documentation about different camber settings according to chassis numbers. My car is one of the earlier, so the settings specified in some pinned topic here apply.

Next, I'll visit the Lexus dealer next Friday for a checkup. Then I can be sure that the operator knows what he or she is doing.

As a last resort, maybe this could help me out.

http://eibach.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.exe/04310...335276300019176

I had contact with the Eibach importer too. They knew about this problem on some Alfa's, but it's the first time he hears about it on a Lexus. Must say that he probably doesn't sell this Lexus kit so often either...

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but do they measure youre setup when going for the test? i wouldnt have thought so.........

even over here which is the most rule and paperwork regulated country i know they just have a look as the PN's and if u have the approval papework thats it......

how does it work in belgium?? i guess you have also posted on the european part of this site??

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oedipus, Tony may well not be willing to help you unless you join as a Gold member. How much has your ride height dropped by ? If it's around the normal ranges of drop, then I don't think it can be the springs themselves that are the problem, unless your suspension has been reassembled wrongly. It could still be damaged suspension, as I said.

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but do they measure youre setup when going for the test? i wouldnt have thought so.........

even over here which is the most rule and paperwork regulated country i know they just have a look as the PN's and if u have the approval papework thats it......

how does it work in belgium?? i guess you have also posted on the european part of this site??

Oh, I thought Belgium was the most rulecrazy country in Europe?

Yes have posted on EU forum.

To lower a car in Belgium, you have several rules to respect:

1. GOCA document (GOCA is the Belgian automotive industry representative >> TüV is not valid here)

2. Installation document (confirmation of installation by official installer, if diy, you need to go & have it checked up by a pro)

3. Lowering inspection at the automotive inspection where they check: both documents, the numbers on the modified parts, the ride height (min 11cm with 2cm tolerance), the geometry.

I passed everything except the geometry. Now I have to get the car within range on Wednesday. Their advice was: put it back on OEM springs. Haha. Very funny. :tomato:

The ride height seemed very low to me. They check it by driving the car over a 9cm high bar. I looked myself and was surprised that the Eibach kit lowered the car by this much. I had 1 to 1,5 cm clearance over the 9cm bar. That is very low. But hey, it's an Eibach Pro kit, installed by an official Eibach dealer. What do they want more?

About the Gold membership, I have considered that, but I can't expect WIM to come over to Belgium to sort my geometry...

Btw, wasn't the UK also part of Europe? Or is it dangerous to say that? :shutit:

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The ride height seemed very low to me. They check it by driving the car over a 9cm high bar. I looked myself and was surprised that the Eibach kit lowered the car by this much. I had 1 to 1,5 cm clearance over the 9cm bar. That is very low. But hey, it's an Eibach Pro kit, installed by an official Eibach dealer. What do they want more?

Clearance where ? At the bottom of the front bumper ? Do you have a lip spoiler on there ?

About the Gold membership, I have considered that, but I can't expect WIM to come over to Belgium to sort my geometry...

I wasn't suggesting that they need to come over, but if your guy was having problems with the WIM settings then they might be able to help by phone.

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I just did a quick and rough measurement on my car (fitted with TTE springs, which are supposedly the same as the Eiback sprinigs), and it has approx 15cm of ground clearance.

So your car does sound very low, which would help to explain why the camber has gone so far out of range.

The main question is, why on earth is it so low now ? I wonder if the wrong springs have been put on by mistake ? Might be worth checking if there is a model number on the springs themselves, e.g. maybe you've got a box which says "IS200" but the springs inside aren't for an IS200 ?

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I just did a quick and rough measurement on my car (fitted with TTE springs, which are supposedly the same as the Eiback sprinigs), and it has approx 15cm of ground clearance.

So your car does sound very low, which would help to explain why the camber has gone so far out of range.

The main question is, why on earth is it so low now ? I wonder if the wrong springs have been put on by mistake ? Might be worth checking if there is a model number on the springs themselves, e.g. maybe you've got a box which says "IS200" but the springs inside aren't for an IS200 ?

The springs have been checked and double-checked by the Eibach dealer and technical control center that delivers the road authorisation. All that part was ok, it's the geometry that wasn't ok.

I don't mind it to be so low. Didn't measure it, they just drive it over a bar. The clearance was measured under the lowest point that should be just underneath the gearbox. The plastic engine cover was dismounted for this.

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Lowering with Eibach Pro kit, installed from Belgian Eibach dealer, incl. a geometry checkup.

Street approval (you call it MOT?) at the testcentre > NOK, front camber is out of allowed tolerances!! :duh:

Camber : L -1°45' >< Lexus tolerance = -0°51'<x<+0°09'

R -1°44' >< Lexus tolerance = -0°51'<x<+0°09'

Re-reading your posting, and checking this versus my own geometry settings, unsuprisingly these are the OEM settings that your garage is using. The WIM settings for front camber would require even *more* adjustment.

However, I've got TTE springs (i.e. Eibach) and my front camber is at -0°23' on one side, to give you an example. Before lowering it was at -0°12' !

Although I'm severely lacking in knowledge on this, it still sounds to me like your car is much too low for some reason and that's why it can't be adjusted back into range. The OEM adjusters will only go so far. If you lower the car too much then it'll be impossible to adjust the geometry back into range without the aid of some sort of aftermarket adjusters.

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which wheels do you have fitted?

I had 18" Speedline GT One's with 225/40 ZR 18 tyres when the Eibach Pro kit was fitted. At the technical control centre, they made me fit the 17" OEM wheels (215/45 ZR 17), because 225/40 ZR 18 has a larger radius (0,26% out of tolerance, sigh) and should have been 215/40 ZR 18. I also had the geometry adjusted with the 17" wheels.

Would wheel size make a difference for the geometry?

(...) it still sounds to me like your car is much too low for some reason and that's why it can't be adjusted back into range. The OEM adjusters will only go so far. If you lower the car too much then it'll be impossible to adjust the geometry back into range without the aid of some sort of aftermarket adjusters.

Indeed, it seems very low to me too. What is causing this is unclear. I did see in the geometry that there is a difference in caster too. I don't remember the side, but one side is almost 1° difference with the other. But since this is not adjustable, they didn't make a problem out of it. My tyreguy told me the car probably took a (big) bump. Explaining why one of my OEM wheels was beyond repair lately...

The current action plan is: go back to technical control centre tomorrow to see if and how far it's out of range. Friday checkup at Lexus Brussels to see if everything is ok with the suspension. Meanwhile, Eibach is informed and investigating. Eibach Germany apparently has no knowledge of the Eibach camber kit (googled) or Eibach spherical balljoint adjusters (WIM's advice). This, together with a product review remark on myIS forum that the adjusters' finish is not up to level with the usual Eibach product quality, makes me think it is a US product that is not developed/produced in Germany.

Man I would like to have a WIM in the neighbourhood...

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By the way, I calculate that 225/40R18 compared to 215/45R17 is 1.9% difference in overall circumference/diameter of the tyre, which sounds ok to me.

Sounds ok to me too, but that appeared to be 0,26% too high to be allowed on the road... I'm busy trying to get this sorted with the Lexus Import division and the federal department of mobility. But that's another story.

About the geometry, went to Lexus Brussels on Friday and they set it up within tolerance. They told me you have to start sorting things on the rear axle to make sure you can get the front axle within tolerance. Let's hope they got it right this time, 'cause it cost me dearly... :blink: I think a trip to WIM would have been less expensive, I could have even flown him in I think. :eerrrmm:

Since the proof of the pudding is in the driving, I tested it out on the way home and was very surprised how the handling improved! Excellently spent money (although shamelessly expensive): they eliminated my understeer (on 17", must see what it gives on 18") and the oversteer is very controllable, exactly the way I like it. Oh yes baby! :D

Now let's see what the technical control people think about it... :luck:

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ummm going by your post above about starting the geo on the rear.... the first time you had it done did they start at the front??

First AND second time. First time was after lowering, second time was at tyre "specialist".

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ummm going by your post above about starting the geo on the rear.... the first time you had it done did they start at the front??

First AND second time. First time was after lowering, second time was at tyre "specialist".

well then they have no clue at all.........

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  • 2 weeks later...

Finally I passed my MOT (=what we call 'technical control'?) yesterday. It's final, I won't have to pass the geometry test again until I change the lowering. Which I am NOT considering.

Lexus and my local tyre dealer (not the ones that f***ed up the geometry) explained me that most (FWD) cars only need a front geometry from time to time. But RWD cars, certainly after lowering, need 4-wheel geometry. If the geometry at the back is not good, you can't fit the front in the Lexus tolerance range. Which was mandatory to pass the MOT "lowering procedure".

Since I had the Eibach kit fitted, I experienced understeer. At first, I thought it was due to my new tyres (PZero Rosso) on the front, but after fitting the OEM wheels again, I experienced the same understeer I didn't have before the lowering. Since I had the geometry done at my Lexus dealer's, I found the car a lot more agile and collaborative while cornering. Happy happy joy!!

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