The Mole

Drive the car yourself and make up your own mind. Most motoring hacks are just J.Clarkson wanna be's trying to make a name for themselves. It's your money, not theirs - judge for yourself. Car is sensational.

Yup..... Enjoy!

Still better spec for less money than Merc/BMW/Audi at any trim level, so if you think the Lexus is expensive you're in for a shock eslewhere.

You'll see some of the auto and sat nav back as I said, but not the roof or pre crash. Very few people have opted for the roof or pre crash though. My point is that to get to the basic SE spec in the Lexus involves lots of extras with the Germans, so no matter what spec you choose, you'll alway be ahead with the Lexus.

One thing to bear in mind when considering residuals is the options. They are calculated using the base price of the car, not including options. A case study:- BMW xyz model £23,000 new base price. £3500 optional equipment, £26,500 total 3 years and 36k miles later this car is now valued at £11,500. All the guides and figuers quoted will report a 50% residual, not the actual 43% the real customer gets. As Lexus have very few if any options, their owners don't suffer as much of this hidden depreciation. The only options that add any value to a used car are auto, metallic, leather and sat nav, and even then we are talking hundreds, not thousands of pounds. All your fancy seats, turbo phone, chrome plated steering wheel and super fury stereo make a car easier to sell, but not more valuable.

Car has a pre delivery inspection that includes:- Removing all the protective film, platics sheets, covers and protectors from all the exterior panels and interior that could be damaged in the long journey from Japan. The car is then de-waxed - a spray on coating to prevent any corrosion whilst in transit (or stored in a field, in the case of Ford, Vauxhall etc) Car then has all the tyre pressures set (they come from the factory at 60psi to prevent flat spots forming whilst stationary for weeks whilst at sea / storage. Then all the fluid levels are checked, filled, adjusted. The sat nav if fitted is then set up and calibrated. All the vehicle settings such as auto headlight sensitivity, seat belt warning buzzers, window motor bounce back ratings and position memories, etc, etc, etc, etc are set to comply with the UK market. Then a general condition report is carried out to confirm there is no damage or defects in the body, interior or any of the car's systems and equipment. The car is then taken on a small road test to make sure that there are no strange noises, rattles or handling irregularities etc Finally, the car is then fully valleted (4-6 hours to do it properly) and ready for the customer.... If your car is due to land on a Monday for instance, it might arrive at 5pm. Work then starts on Tuesday, and if the dealer isn't busy with 6 other cars arriving with yours, might be ready for the valleters Wed am. Your car is then ready Wed pm or Thurs am at the earliest. Hope this answers your question? :)

Okay guys, lets cut to the chase. Some of you may know this, some may not, but it is the truth, like it or not - confirmed recently by a very good friend of the Autocar editor (who will remain nameless)....... Car mags are a business - the cover price of the mag is peanuts in comparison to the income stream generated by big full / double page advertising. No advertising, no mag. BMW spend an absolute fortune on advertising in mags, autocar especially. Pick any car mgazine you have in your house right now and I bet you will come accross a big and expensive BMW ad sooner or later. When one of my best customers comes into the showroom, I don't to tell him his daughter is ugly. Simple as that. How many Lexus ads did you come accross trying to find the BMW ones? Lets get this straight, this is not my opinion, this is a fact, and a fact that has been rienforced to me on many occasions throughout my lenghty career in the motor trade. Also, it is known that most manufacturers wil fiddle and mess with diff and gearing ratios, ecu's, all sorts of things to vastly improve the car above what you and I will get in the showroom, just so the press give it impressive reviews and test figures. And yes you guessed it - Lexus don't. Trust me they don't. A very heated debate occurred a while back between two very senior Lexus officials about the very subject, where the winning argument ensured that the cars the press get are the cars you and I get. Simple as that. Moral of the story, put the mag back amongst the comics at the supermarket where they belong and drive the cars yourself - its your money!

As I say, can't please all the people all the time..... Try the Levinson..... end of story.

I ask for discounts in 5 star hotles too. and it works nearly every time. ← Not if they are fully booked... :winky: As for discounts of Mercs, they are into volume sales, and must have felt the need to discount? You'd never hear a Lexus centre offering a car at "cost plus £1!" on the radio. Very sad for them.

No folding rear seat is a very valid point, and one Lexus are more than aware of. The reason they choose against it is two fold. Firstly, strength, solid rear bulkhead is much stronger in a crash. Secondly, and this is the main reason, the whole concept of the new car was to reach unprecedented levels of smoothness, quietness and refinement. A solid rear bulkhead drastically compromises interior cabin noise. Can't please all of the people all of the time.... Tyre noise is as you say, only due to lack of any other mechanical or wind noise. On the superb French road I first tested the car on, at 120kph it was tombstone quiet - UK roads are just crap. If we had noiser and harsher engines and more wind noise like everyone else, you wouldn't notice any tyre noise. Engineers have done many tests, IS is definately much quieter. Smaller glove box is because of knee airbags, a sacrafice in the name of safety. Know what you mean about the wood - all down to taste, but it is beautiful quality, just too highly polished for some? Mark Levinson sound system is unbeatable. One of our customers has installed ICE systems in chav mobiles costing in excess of £12k! and says they are not as clear as the Levinson. Another customer has the Lynn system in his DB9 - "doesn't come close to the Levinson" If anyone out there is in any doubt, ask your dealer for a demo, I absolutely guarentee you will not have heard anyhting even close. BOSE and Harman Kardon set themselves a standard of 0.1% THD at max vol.... the Levinson is 0.01!!!! It is so good, you wouldn't dare even touch the bass/treble controls - thar would be vulgar, it is perfect out of the box.

SE does not have memory seats - definate, despite what earlier 'dealer' info suggested.

Imagine working in a very posh 5 star hotel. In comes Mr Bloggs who is looking for a comfy bed and a good nights sleep. No problem, we can help, but so can the travel lodge down the road, who can offer the same comfy bed and good nights sleep. However, for some reason, Mr Bloggs fancies having his good nights sleep in your 5 star hotel, but only wants to pay the same as the travel lodge.......

Most delays are only a week or two, but dealers should not have promissed any dates, we didn't have acurate info until very recently....

A day in the life of a car salesman is very misunderstood. All I can say is that if any of you tried it, it would change your opinion dramatically.

Yes I am in the "trade" (Lexus Dealer) Yes there are "two" margins The second of which is not guaranteed, it is based on acheiving very tough sales targets, customer satisfaction targets, random dealer inspection targets, telephone and video mystery shop targets, finance targets etc, etc. I am not compalining about people asking for discounts, feel free, fill your boots, I have no problem with that. But to 'expect' one automatically as a matter of principal? I can only speak from my own perspective here, but at our dealer, we have totally sold our allocation for this year, most orders from now on won't be satisfied until Jan/Feb. After the launch, this will be March/ April. It will be way into next year before the "D" word is even thought about, and even then we might only be talking about a small gesture of good will.... As I've said earlier, to sell on price is not to sell. A good sales person will offer such an exceptional level of service and care to the point that the customer will happily pay the little extra. Not everyone, but many, and enough to fill the order banks.

The margin accross a car is not there to offer discounts, it is there to pay the staff, bills, buy the coffee, buy the fuel for test drives, take customers on Golf days and other customer events. It is to pay for the excellent service we offer as a business. Anything left after all that is the proffit for the busniess, and a very modest one at that. Why do you see so many dealers closing around the country - it's because they no longer are commercially viable because there margins are erroded to unsustainable levels through dicounting to try and match rediculous deals offered from dot coms etc etc. Peolple want the full customer service, dealer facilities, proffessional demonstration and handovers followed by full customer support, and then want it at a price offered by an intenet company who offer no such thing, with next to no overheads or customer service.

I agree with this argument, you might as well try and get a car on the best deal you can at the time, as depreciation is the biggest cost in ownership. Besides there are other ways of discounting, it all comes down to cost to change, so they can just offer you over the odds for your part ex and keep list price for their car. ← Giving you more for your car than it is worth is the same thing to a dealer as giving a discount. They will still stand you p/x on their books at its true value. Any dealer needing to discount the new IS to sell it needs to assess the quality of their selling staff.

Thanks for taking the time to post such an informative and oh so helpfull reply, your input is truely valued and most appreciated. To everyone else, cheers :) ← No offence, it just saddens me that before a car is even launched, especially one as superb as the new Lexus, there might be a rogue dealer offering to dicount the product? The car is excellent, worth the money and already on a growing waiting list. There is just no need to discount it and risk residual values. I understand the consumers thirst for a 'deal', I am no different, but c'mon, the car isn't even launched yet! As for dealers discounting the new GS straight away....? Doesn't show much confidence in the brand or product does it?

Discount................? I despair, I truely depair.

I'm so glad someone has finally had the chance to experience what all the fuss has been about. Tailpipe, you now must have a totally different perspective on peoples comments that grumble about the price. I'm sure you will agree with me that even though it is less expensive than the competition spec for spec, it's vastly superior quality and precison engineering justifies it to be more expensive, which it isn't! I hope you enjoy your new car!

Spot on tail pipe....spot on. Do me a favour, when you look at the 3 series, have a look at the following and compare with the IS..... In no particular order. On the 3 series, look at and compare with the IS:- Panel fit Under bonnet only in primer Finnish of under bonnet metal work & welding (sharp crude rough edges etc) Under bonnet sealing - less of, poor quality. Wiring loom covered in insulation tape with bare wire ends! Two hands needed to get to poor quality bonnet catch and open bonnet Large seal needed between door handel and door to mask poor tolerances Poor finish to reverse of door handles Leather feels like a cheap wallet Switch gear not updated from 2 generations ago Boot poorly trimmed in cheap plastic Underside of rear parcel shelf left untrimmed No NVH reducing trim in boot Mediocre 6 speaker stereo! I could go on and on and we havn't even started it up yet or looked at what comes as standard. Part of the Lexus training event was a lenghty and thorough 'engineering' evaluation of the new IS versus its competition. It was done very fairly and objectively. But parking the two cars side by side, the difference was obvious. BMW make a car that is very involving to drive, and journalists love to thrash them round a track, hence give them raves. BMW sold last year more units than the Mondeo in the UK. Every penny they can save by cutting a corner here or there makes a big impact on the bottom line at these volumes. And it shows - big time. I'll say it again - the attention to detail, the exacting tolerances and precision build of the new IS is incredible. You really have to see it and compare to the competition to understand how superior it is. What people are doing is playing top trumps with stats, without looking at the bigger picture. Two restaurants may be the same size and serve fillet steak, but they can be worlds apart in taste, quality, service, ambiance etc. Wait and see..... As you say tail pipe, to an average hack who doesn't have to live with a car, it's greatness is determined by how controllable it is 45 degrees out, with an arm full of opposite lock. Meanwhile in the real world.....

The old car was a 2 litre, the new car is a 2.5 litre, hence should be more expensive, like everyone else. ....and having driven and inspected the new car, even if it was still a 2 litre, it would be worth the extra. It really IS that good. Please wait until you have seen / driven it before passing judgment?

Price has been out for a while now. IS250 £22400 SE £25400 SE-L £28000 Auto £1000 Metallic £510 Multi Media £2710

Price fell in 2000 due to the re-alignment of UK pricing in the UK - everyone else dropped their price too. It was not just a Lexus reduction. People bought the old IS for other reasons than just price. Service, equipment, quality, exclusivity, to name a few. New car is still less expensive than equivalent spec competitors - although it shouldn't be in my opinion. Wouldn't it be better to examine and drive one for yourself before making a fair and unbiased desicion on its value? Being in the fortunate position to have driven the new car back to back with its competitors, I can enthusiastically say that its quality, refinement, attention to detail and spec, more than justify its price.

Space saver:- Not only are the tyres different sizes fron to back, they also have directional tyres, which means you have a 1 in 4 chance of puncturing the correct wheel. If Lexus put a full size wheel in there and it had the wrong tyre for the punctured wheel, some owners wouldn't be in any hurry to change it back as it looks okay, and would happily drive at 70mph plus with uneaven tyres / treads on one axle, and that is simply dangerous. At least with the space saver, everyone knows you can only drive at a much safer 50mph - That is the reason, and the only reason. Don't even go there with the cost saving bit, having been lucky enough to drive the new car and compare it directly, back to back with the competition - trust me - the Lexus is by far the superior product, and I mean by far. If they were trying to save money, they wouldn't have finished the underside of the bonnet with the same quality of paint/laquer finish as the rest of the car - all the flanges have neat and smooth returns on them, the sealer is neat and tidy, and all the welds are smooth and continuous. The BMW for example has just got a rienforcement grid with uneven sharp edges tack and spot welded in place, and covered in a dash undercoat - the difference in the quality of finish, and the attention to detail is stunning. And that is just one of many, many examples of why this car is so good, and so suprior to the competition - stuff that you cannot compare just by playing top trumps with facts and figures. For those who have ordered a new IS250 - it will blow you away, you are getting a fantastic car that is so far in advance of the current model, it is as if there is a model in between that we didn't get to see. Enjoy!