The Mole

911, where from how much?!?!?!?!? ← Depends on what you want to spend, but £10 - £15k gets a really nice, well looked after '85-'89 911 Carerra with loads of performance, it will harldey depreciate at all if you look after it, it is a true classic car, has loads or street cred, and thanks to clubs and specialists, doesn't cost too much to run. Look in the back of 911 world magazine, or Classic & Sports car etc, etc. Avoid the auto trader that is full of 26 owner, 113k miles (yeah, whaterver) modified scrap metal. Don't get me wrong, it's just that 'little euro fuzz box' cars that only go quick at a million revs are just so, well, chav... Sorry if I offend anyone. It's just that driven quickly, they just give the wrong message in my humble opinion. If it was me, and fuel wasn't so expensive, I'd be in a 60's muscle car for sure. But it isn't me, and fuel is too expensive, so I'll stick to roller blades.

Curious..... Type R is mental, a friend has one and it is fairly quick, and fun to drive, but once the novelty wears off, you are left with a small hatchback. Also bear this in mind.... Have a guess what everyone thinks, as you wheelspin away at a million revs? Surely you don't want people calling you that? We've had a couple of supecharged IS's in our place over the years and to be honest, they aren't very impressive - maybe nearly as quick as the IS300, but without the torque, and torque is what you want. The IS 6 cyl block is just not a good basis for tuning, sure it has a strong bottom end, but the whole breathing of the cylinder head is too restricted and doesn't lend itself to tuning, well not without considerable expense. The RS motor in the Altezza is a real beauty - they used that motor in the privately entered touring car a few years back as it proved much easier to tune than the 6, it is lighter and has a much better head and valve trian. Still, pulling all those revs just to go quick will always make you look like an idiot, just no way around it. Here's one to upset the apple cart.... if you look hard enough, and avoid the auto trader, it's amazing how much 911 you can get for your money these days.... :mat:

Lets just see what happens then.... but I'm not holding my breath. On the brighter side of the news though, there are plans for a coupe and a convertible..... and the possibility of a mini RX - Kind of an IX250 ish sort of thing to replace the sportcross. Thant should cheer you all up No reason why a superior car should be cheaper though.

Yep, I'd love to see a high performance version too. No plans yet for the UK though. Unfortunately, in the UK, everyone gets very enthusiastic for big engined versions and when the manufacturer gives in and launches one, nobody buys it. To make a model commercially viable, you need to sell thousands of units over a few years to make it worth while. It's no good just selling 500 to die hard enthusiasts. Lets just say they did, how much would an IS350 cost? £32k? £35K? I've no idea, but you can bet that if there is an argument against the price of the 2.5 lite model, there sure would be one against a 3.5....? How many people would pay the same for an IS350, if they could have a GS300 for the same or a little more? As the IS350 is basically a US model, I doubt there will be a manual model, and lets face it, that's what the brits want isn't it? - paddle shifts just don't do it do they? What I think people want to see is a 400bhp IS500 or similar - an M3 rival. Problem is though, this sort of car is getting too far away from what Lexus is about. BMW produce more of a performance based car where Lexus produce a car biased more towards luxury. I have seen pictures of such a beast, covered in padding being tested, but I have a feeling that this might be a touring car mule or similar? Only time will tell, but I'm not holding my breath.

Preferences are preferences, but no one can argue that the RX400h is the ONLY 4x4 in the world to offer 30+ mpg, 7 sec bracket 0-60, saloon car emissions and the smoothness, quietness and refinement of a lux saloon. To get the same power you've got to go to 4 to 5 litres with the competition and that will give you less than 20 mpg and huge emissions. To get the same economy you need a diesel that is slower, noiser, smellier and less refined and still with high emissions when in a 4x4. Hybrid really is a leap forward.

As we cannot change the price / spec, shall we just look forward to what I'm sure will be a splendid car? Just in case any of you didn't know, the sport version of the diesel will have a lower final drive ratio to give sportier acceleration at the expense of slightly higher emissions - relevant to you co-car drivers.

Thanks for asking this - you are a rare breed..... If you contact Lexus directly (number is on the back of every brochure) and ask to speak to someone from the corporate department, they will put you in touch with someone that can offer a demonstration of suitable length. As for performance - Lexus see it perhaps further down the list of priorities than say BMW. Lexus' core brand values are smoothness, quietness and refinement. And Lexus have that in spades. If 0-60 is a big thing for you, best bet is to wait until you can drive one and see how it goes. Paper figures only tell half the story. Really need your bum in the seat to assess a car properly in my humble opinion. Car is still yet to be homologated in the UK. Hasn't had the government tests yet, so emissions, insurance and fuel economy are yet to be established. By the way, who's to say Lexus won't bring out a less expensive 1.8 litre 150bhp version...

Evenin' all..... Did a little research today with reference to spec vrs price vrs competition. Some think the IS250 SE spec is too basic Some think the car is too expensive Some think it is no longer better value than the competition. I take it we would all agree that a reasonable competitor would be a BMW325i SE Manual....? BMW325i SE Basic price £25,525 - more expensive before we start. Extras to bring it up to the same spec of a standard IS250 SE are:- Leather - £1,220 CD autochanger - £295 Climate comfort screen - £230 Comfort Access - £430 17" Alloys - £435 Folding Mirrors - £165 Electric fromt memory seats - £890 Floor mats! - £75 Heated front seats - £260 Headlamp wash system - £185 Lumbar support front seats - £195 Front armrest - £110 Grand total £30,015....... Vrs £25,400..... A saving of £4,615 !!!!! If you want a BMW sunroof or metallic, that will make the difference even bigger as their extras are more expensive too. Don't even start on the SE-L spec - same story there. Merc C230, over £3,800 more expensive Audi A4 2.0FSi, over £2,400 more expensive And when you come to sell those cars, theres a lot of extras to lose money on. Therefore:- Better equipped, better value. All the extra equipment I guess makes it a bit heavier. Wonder what a BMW325i would weigh with all those expensive options and how much slower it would be? Also, the auto BMW is 0.7 sec slower than the manual. Lexus isn't all about speed though is it, I mean, we could spend all night playing top trumps with tech data.... e.g. Lexus is quieter, more aerodynamic and statistically better quality for instance - all depends what you are lookng for. M

Sniff, scratch, scrape..... who left that flymo there! Oh boy.... discounts! One big ugly monster you know, and one that could run and run and run, so this is is my one and only comment on the matter as I can't afford any more therapy. To save this reply lasting 10 pages, I'll have to get to the point. A dealer will only reduce the price of a car if he is unable to sell it at the full price. Basic rules of economics. Lexus allocate a certain number of cars to each dealer per quarter, per year, per model. This is based on the size of the dealer and the size of the area they sell into. Using our dealer as a case study (most dealers are in a similar position), We know that already we have confirmed orders (who know the price) for more than half of this years supply. At the rate we are selling them, this supply will be exhausted way before the launch in November. Therefore there is no need to discount the car. With the diesel coming next April and taking a large percentage of sales due to the fleet market, the situation shouldn't change... So basically, there will be no need to discount until dealers have cars sitting there that they cannot sell. And that could be a long way away. Your suggested figure of 4% is very large, and somthing that I only ever saw once or twice on the current IS200 as we were selling the last few cars, and even then we were still able to sell many of them at the full price. Lexus really aren't about discounts, and history shows that the vast majority of Lexus owners did not buy their car because it was discounted, but because it is a good car and we offered great service. I'm in a very awkward position here and really don't want to get caught up in a huge debate about something that I feel very strongly about, so I best leave this one alone. Now, which hole to scamper down before the shotgun fires...

Tailpipe, I agree with your last coments, however, I am talking UK figures alone, figures that are not published directly. The 2001 figures you quote are for total unit sales, not IS alone. I am not at liberty to quote exact UK figures, but I can assure you they are close to the mark. The VAST majority of European IS sales were in the UK. Mainly because the rest of Europe are on diesel / German bias. Anyway, yes, can't wait to drive it.... rear wheel drive should sort the A4 out surely?

No - doesn't make a difference to the leg room at all. I have driven an RX400h for a month now - what a piece of kit ! As for the price, cheaper than other similar spec 4 x 4's with that performance, not to mention Lexus' quality or the mpg!

Hey! Less of the squinty eyes! All of our confirmed orders are aware of the price. One or two may not go ahead, but this is the case with any new model. We genuinely haven’t had a negative response to the pricing. You say that the SE is too basic? Apart from the sunroof, it has more spec than the old model... If you only wanted parking sensors as an add on, we, and most other dealers would be happy to fit these to an SE model when the car arrives at the dealer. With regard to how many people would have bought the IS300 if it was the only model available is a good point, but please remember, it was only available in auto, so that is 60% of the manual customers gone, it was not as economical as the IS200, so there goes a few more, and also, it was not available in a reduced spec at a lower price. Therefore, if it was available from £23 upwards, and in a manual, and did 30+ mpg, and was group 13 insurance, then yes, we'd have sold plenty. And that is where the new car is.... As for volumes - Lexus had their best year ever last year with approx 6,000 IS units sold. The diesel car alone will double that in 2006, so volume really isn't a worry at this stage. I'm glad to hear that other dealers are contacting customers to tell them about the new model, at least they are taking an active interest, rather than a take it or leave it attitude. We would never like to think that this was considered aggressive though? All the people I have spoken to so far are really keen, and appreciate that we have taken the time to contact them.... I do take on board your comments about having the various spec items grouped together though. Bare in mind though, as soon as you offer too many stand alone options, every car ends up having to be a 4 month custom factory order from Japan. Remember the last time you bought a Merc or BMW? Lexus try to stop waiting lists for cars - part of their customer service thing. It's tough trying to strike the correct balance. Not sure where your dealer has got his info from Andy, but officail specs where released today that are identical to those published originally. sat nav is only part of the multi media pack. Sorry. Now excuse me whilst I go and comb my fur....

Erm.... The new IS250 isn't £3-4k more than the old IS300... It is if you load it up, but the SE with the auto box is pretty similar, with the exception of the HID lamps and the auto dimming mirrors, but the new car has lots in its favour too.... Both approx 200 bhp too.... With reference to keeping valued Lexus customers and not putting the price up too much, can I ask a genuine question? Would a typical IS200 owner decide not to buy one, and instead buy a more expensive German car that they know is an inferior just to make a point? And did the typical IS200 owner buy their car instead of a German brand just because it was less expensive? Badge snobbery is an issue in Europe (not is the USA), but the tides are turning. You wouldn't believe the amount of times we here that people "wouldn't be seen dead in a BMW" or, "Mercs are poor quality these days" or "yeah, but everyones got one of those" Customers out there are much more aware than you might think, and Lexus' reputation of fine quality and service really is starting to draw customers from elsewhere, irrespective of price. Best thing I can suggest is that whenever any of you are ready to change your car, have a go in the new IS250 then ask yourself the question, is the alternative better or worth more money? Only you can answer. Also, how many of you would buy a less expensive 1.8 4 cyl version in a year or so.....? just curious ;)

"really gets my back up IMO"....... Fair point, well made. Was written tongue in cheek, post edited, no offence.

Only two responses... 1) Why should Lexus try to undercut? Surley the best product with the best service and the best reliability should be the most expensive? However, the IS250 is less expensive than the same spec 325i at any trim level. Remember - Lexus have not got where they are today by selling cheaper cars - they are growing faster than any other luxuary brand because they build the best cars and offer the best service. 2) By offering more than your car is worth to keep your business is commercially identical as offering a discount of the same amount, which is in turn saying that the car is not worth its asking price. Plus, what is a dealer supposed to do with a car that he has traded in at the price he should be selling it at? Sell it at no proffit? Remember, 1) 2.5 litres costs more than 2.0 litres, as with EVERY other brand 2) Lexus build higher quality, more reliable cars than the Germans (J.D. Power) 3) Lexus offer better service (J.D.Power) 4) New IS is cheaper spec for spec. (Trust me it is, many hours research) 5) Deisel will restore the company car market and boost volume Fortunately, current Lexus owners, and owners of other brands, are placing and confirming orders at a very encouraging rate, I just hope some of you will join them.

Ah, yes... HOWEVER..... What if it was a tastier pizza, served on a nice plate, by friendly staff, in a nice restaurant with ample parking facilities and that whatever combo is on offer it is still cheaper than the one served next door with only half the ingrediants, seved in a soggy box by an arrogant waiter? Cars are not at the docks waiting, petrol or otherwise - they are still testing the deisel! Your dealer is not correct. As for the current model, production stopped months ago, and last time I looked on the computer, there were only a few left in a few showrooms. We sold our last one weeks ago. Lexus manage supply into the UK very carefully - always just enough to satisfy the demand so customers aren't asked to wait, but never too many so that heavy discounting is needed to clear them - and please tell me that we all know that discounting just makes the car depreciate faster so that you don't gain in the end - see Jaguar for a good example. As you say, the IS200 is not a friendly car for company car tax and therfore most of the cars on the road are indeed privately owned, which to be honest for many dealers is a blessing in disguise - it can be VERY frustrating to offer someone the full treatment, demonstrations, test drives, quotes, hours of your time for them to go to and buy from a leasing company..... ask the leasing company for a test drive? Rocky ground here I know, and ground without an easy solution, so lets save it for another day - just our side of the fence?

Oh no, they're MUCH better than BMW..... and still cheaper spec for spec! How do they do it? Maybe many on this forum won't decide to buy one, but in a year or so they will be available used at a lower price. We have sold all but a few of this year's allocation so far and the car hasn't even been launched! - Hope we don't get a waiting list too long! One of the things nice about supplying Lexus is that normally customers aren't asked to wait for their new cars, but hey, if demand exceeds supply I guess we'll just have to manage as best we can. Most customers understand when a new model is launched. We shall see.

I believe in the product, simple as that. Having worked for other 'luxuary' brands in the past, I am in the privileged position to make direct comparisons between them, not just at face value, but all the behind the scenes info that only we get to see. Out of all the different brands I have worked with, Lexus is the only one I'd recommend to a family member. I'm not here to try and pursuade people to buy another Lexus, but often you see people who miss the point, or fail to see the bigger picture, where an insiders view point might bring a little clarity?

Just a few coments. Residual values. Okay they have slipped a little in the last 12 months due to the new model, but that's life. However, for most of it's life the IS has had better residuals than any of its competitors and by some margin. Don't forget, when residuals are calculated, they are based against the cars new list price for that model, and don't include all the extras that you add on. Adding £3k's worth of extras won't make it worth any more when you come to sell it, therfore the 3 series or C lass or whatever is worth less in percentage terms than the percentage guide figures suggest, and even they are lower than the IS. As for Honda as a direct competitor, I'm sure they think so too. Best to compare it once the new IS is out, then we'll see I guess... Model line up - comparing one manufacturer against another using how many drivatives they have a factor is only valid if you are trying to compete on volume and therefore profitaiblity. Lexus are not chasing volume like the Germans - Toyota does that for them and wins hand down, end of story. A competitor is judged using factors of quality, performance, ride, smoothness, refinement, quietness, engineering, technology etc. In the end, the price is the price, Lexus have built and designed a fabulous new car which peolple will either buy and enjoy or they won't. No amount of discussion will change colours, specs or prices. So far, everyone I have spoken to has confirmed their order and are looking forward to their new car.

"I'm not prepared to pay Lexus how much they want just for the privilege of RWD and a V6" With respect, you are paying for more than just RWD and a V6 engine. It's all the other things that made your old IS200 the "best car I ever owned" that make the Lexus worth the money, plus the quality, refinement, design, build, stronger residual value, customer service..... But you can't please all the people all the time, good luck with the Honda though, still a good quality car.

Hi Tailpipe, 18" wheels where reserved for the sport spec because: a) to help differentiate this trim level B) they will give a ride too hard for the SE-L spec, but okay for a "sport" model IS350 may well come to the UK....? However, please bear in mind that whenever a manufacturer launches a new model, the public are very enthusiastic about large engined versions - it was the same with Lexus - the public screamed for the IS300, then when it was launced, bought the IS200 instead. The market for larger engined versions is suprisingly small. Most people would go for a GS300 instead - market fact I'm affraid. There is a whisper or two about an M3 beater though..... As for colours, due to very borinig manufacturing, and marketing reasons, there are only so many colours you can offer on one model, I guess you can't please all the people all the time? Thanks for the good service comment - we really do try, and if the customer has an open mind and is receptive to the fact that car dealerships are not the same, we can all have an easier life. Unfortunately, some customers walk into a Lexus centre all angry and frustrated, with a big guard up, already on the back foot before we can even say hello because they have just been to a "traditional" German showroom. Advice to any customer out there - the world is a much nicer place if we are pleasant and friendly. Just picture how you like to deal with people in your job - we have feelings, wives/huisbands, families and lives outside of work too.

A bit late on in the thread now but..... Anyone thinking of leaving Lexus for a Jag X-type probably deserves one! Please bear this in mind 1) Massive discounts - you only discount what doesn't sell 2) Factory on long term 'short week' 3) Jaguar suffering massive losses 4) Depreciation to make a grown man cry 5) The 'trade' hate them almost as much as Freelanders 6) Jag are stopping production and ditching the model because it has been such a success... And all this before you actually drive it and feel the cheap Ford plastics and switch gear, pretty soon you will remember why you bought your Lexus.

Cause of corrosion is due to more than one factor. 1) Salt on our roads - only UK suffers the problem 2) Sharp edges on wheel design doesn't help 3) Higher magnezium content premotes corrosion once laquer penetrated. Same with most fancy or exotic alloys that use high magnezium content to aid light weight. Notice how Ford wheels seem to escape? - Soft curvy designs that weigh a tonne! Merc AMG's or BMW Alpina's? - High magnezium and complicated 'edgy' design... you can watch them flake! As the UK is the only market to suffer (mainly due to the salt) it is cheaper to replace under waranty than change the whole design and manufacturing process..... but they're on the case.

As I work for Lexus...... All B mode does is double the gearing to the electric motrs when in a 'trailing throttle' position - this increases the feel of 'engine breaking'. Yes it will charge the battery more quickly, but because you slow down quicker, you are charging for less time, hence no better off. The only time you would use it is for long decents that required prelonged breaking - the B mode just allows the motors to take some of the strain off the discs and pads - just like keeping a manual in 3rd gear down a hill....