Ls430 Height Sensors

[racingclub]

Ive got a LS430 (2003 Vintage!), which had the height sensors replaced at c60k when 4 years old. Lexus stumped up cos they recognise this is an area where the normal high LS stds of care and quality are not what they would want. Now the difficult bit..the things have failed again within 18mths of replacement and with less than extra 22k miles on the clock.

What are peoples feelings on this issue... how can I best go about getting the dealer/Lexus UK to play ball on what will be a second significant failure in the lifetime of this car.

Other than the alloy wheels blistering worse than a 16 year old boys face the rest of the car is a credit to the land of the rising sun...

Would really appreciate any helpfull input as I am looking down the barrel of a £1500 bill!!!! :shutit:

Cheers :winky:

[racingclub]

Ive managed to find some information about this issue which I thought I would check with you experts.

a)Seems this is a common fault.

B) Water gets into the "sealed" system

c) Lexus modified the part and now think the mod has sorted out the problem (Ive got a £1500 bill which kinds dones not support this!)

d) Damage to bellows is a common issue after the system defaults to open and the suspension becomes as hard as rock!

What I am not certain about is linkage to Toyota LX 4x4's who seem to have the same fault and the parts dont half look the same?

Found this interesting link...any thoughts anyone...

http://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruiser...-dead-05lx.html

Would be good to chat through this and any other LS430 issues, my car is 6 years old and c80k... keep with main dealer or go with a local garage...or does anyone know a good lexus specialist in the North West?

[racingclub]

Guys, Ive made a little headway with this sensor issue.

It would appear that is a MASSIVE issue within the Toyota network with dealership memos from head office etc.

The part is faulty and they know it but a recall is bad for business.

Given that Lexus and Toyota are the same thing at head office level what do you think to this thread from a Toyota site

http://www.tlocuk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=749

Im explain to Lexus that I dont mind paying for repairs on parts that have reached the end of life or have developed faults through reasonable wear however I do have a BIG ISSUE with paying a significant four figure sum for a part that is not of the qulaity it should be and they know it....

:tsktsk:

Thanks in anticipation of any help you can offer....

[racingclub]

No wonder Lexus/Toyota are not keen to be spending money on looking after older cars, looks like they have got hands full with the new stuff...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8281981.stm

[Ruud]

Have you already been back to the Lexus dealer with this issue?

If yes, what did they say?

[racingclub]

Have you already been back to the Lexus dealer with this issue?

If yes, what did they say?

Ruud, hi

Yes have got my dealer and Lexus GB (who in effect are the Toyota Customer Service Team) involved as this was a know and recurring fault on my car.

Main dealer (Chester) are sympathetic and indeed the engineers on site admit that this is an issue they have to deal with on a regular basis. They have pulled out the stops but even after taking off most of the parts mark up (they dropped from 15% to 5%) and doing the whole job for c£250 labour the fact of the matter is that lexus GB know this is a design fault that they have kept quiet with warranty repairs and throwing money at the problem rather than sorting out the design fault. I can’t see what more the dealer could do and to be honest I can’t ask for more from them...even though they know that it’s highly unlikely that I will do my next service at the dealership as I can save £300 by getting my local garage to fit the parts I can buy for buttons on the web...

Lexus GB have taken a defensive position. They claim that modifications to the parts I had fitted 18 months ago have got rid of the problem...I have £1400 bill that kind of says that the problem might still exist! They say that they only give a 12 month warranty on the new and improved parts even though they have a 5 year warranty on the original items...which makes me feel like the modification was like pushing a plank out over a river rather than building long term solution like say a bridge. What happens as you push the plank out further and further...yes...it falls into the river and gets you wet...but just outside the warranty period so it’s not our problem. Within 5 minutes of my first call the Lexus a very curt and unfriendly man told me that Id better take the issue to trading standards...even though their internal customer service charter plumbs for arbitration....small claims court is cheaper and lower risk all round so I guess its no surprise they don’t mention this....

The annoying thing is that both the dealer and Lexus GB are kind of saying (reading between the lines) if I had extended the warranty (which would have cost £1400...does everything cost this much on this car!!!) then they would prob do the work...although I suspect they would want a contribution from me so warranty plus parts/labour contribution would give me a c£2k bill...so I would be worse off by taking the extended warranty?

I guess the main dealers are the ones who will suffer most. Lexus GB attitude is making me check out the Jag/Audi/Merc/BMW options rather than the LS460. Personally I usually buy 2-3 year old cars and run them for a further 5-6 years....I’ve kind of hinted to both dealer and Lexus GB that taking a "buyer beware" attitude on my Ls430 means that I am going to get picky on my nearly new Ls460 (which has the same damned height sensors so beware all u guys!)...

In simple terms I will be asking for a further 2k off the car to pay for the extended warranty as it appears that you have to purchase your goodwill in advance from Lexus in order to ensure that your impeccably reliable ex£65k luxury saloon does not bite you in the behind...lets put it this way BMW are practically giving away their 7 series and Jag are not far behind. Audi play is cool as the new boys on the luxury circuit. Having had big Mercs in the past I have told Lexus that even the poor manners of the Merc head office have been nothing compared with the non interested approach Lexus have shown...now that’s something I didn’t think I would ever say!!!!

I’ve had some feedback from the Lexus sales guys who are basically saying that shifting 3-4 year old LS460's is already tricky without buyers like me coming in with a hit list of four figure repair faults that they want longer term indemnification against going wrong. It’s fair to say that main dealers make a shed load more from selling nearly new stock than brand new stuff, and an indifferent attitude from Lexus GB will impact on the dealer...

Personally I feel that Lexus does have a good product in Ls430 but has three issues that they just throw money at to stop people complaining about...however given tight budgets and Toyotas reliability coming into question they are changing their position.

Three mains faults =

1. Height sensors that can destroy your rear suspension = £2k fix every 18 months

2. Alloy wheels - they replace them at the drop of a hat in warranty period but the things blister like hell after 12-18months...another modified part that’s replaced to keep you sweat but the part is not a long term fix...

3. Wing mirror electrics - about as reliable as a MP's expenses claim and main dealer has never got sorted out so I just don’t use the parking mode any more...

As the car was only on the list for 3 years I guess they will be glad to see the back of them as they slip into 2/3/4th ownership and out of the main dealers and into independents or DIY garages, buy guys the parts are only avail from Lexus and you cant get them scrap...trust me I’ve searched...unless you know better and can help?

Unfortunately unlike the bullet proof Ls400 range I think the complexity of the Ls430 is showing that long term running costs of the newer LS's mean that you need a bullet proof warranty for as long as you can keep one going for....which in turn means that the resale value of the new LS460 will drop as hopeful people will seek to recoup this cost at point of sale rather than waiting for the electrics to give up the ghost one by one...

Long answer to a simple question I know...thanks for reading...if you got this far!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[racingclub]

Bit more info, I asked my old mate Honest John (loved his column for agesand find the advice is sound and direct)

His replay was

Found out the reason why, by referring to my own car by car breakdown at

hjuk:

Carbon can build up inside rear active suspension height sensors, preventing current getting through and causing the suspension to malfunction. Sometimes they only last 18 months, and cost £1,400 to replace.

HJ

Now I had run into the water ingress causing rust and associated failure (see other posts and links) but this was a new one on me...any thoughts anyone?

Looks like the height senor which Lexus claim is not a problem actually has TWO underlying faults that cause failure...not a good week for Toyota bosses all round

[TigerFish]

Carbon can build up inside rear active suspension height sensors, preventing current getting through

this was a new one on me...any thoughts anyone?

Carbon coming from where? If it is carbon in the height sensor itself, then it would be more than likely conductive carbon for the contacts, so that argument kinda falls over at that point IMO. Rust/corrosion from water ingress sounds much more feasible.

[racingclub]

Found another car with new height sensors going about the same time as mine, interesting that Lexus say this is NOT a problem.... bit like Amercian foreign policy...if you deny stuff for long enough...guess what...it always catches up with you!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT

This car was sold soon after the height sensors went...another £1200 bill for a problem that lexus claim they have sorted out!

[racingclub]

Carbon can build up inside rear active suspension height sensors, preventing current getting through

this was a new one on me...any thoughts anyone?

Carbon coming from where? If it is carbon in the height sensor itself, then it would be more than likely conductive carbon for the contacts, so that argument kinda falls over at that point IMO. Rust/corrosion from water ingress sounds much more feasible.

TF, I agree that the carbon explaination does sound off the mark...I got my car back today and insisted on having the faulty parts returned. BOTH rear height sensors are rusted up and the engineer said that he's seen alot worse. Also the bellows had kinda exploded at the bottom rather than cracked at the top which Lexus dealer said they had never seen b4?

I'll post some pictures and get some thoughts going (picture = 1000 words etc)... the parts and rust look exactly like the Toyota LX/Amazon problem.

Main dealer also confirmed that they get them all the time on the RX....the plot thickens!

[conradlexus]

Ive got a LS430 (2003 Vintage!), which had the height sensors replaced at c60k when 4 years old. Lexus stumped up cos they recognise this is an area where the normal high LS stds of care and quality are not what they would want. Now the difficult bit..the things have failed again within 18mths of replacement and with less than extra 22k miles on the clock.

What are peoples feelings on this issue... how can I best go about getting the dealer/Lexus UK to play ball on what will be a second significant failure in the lifetime of this car.

Other than the alloy wheels blistering worse than a 16 year old boys face the rest of the car is a credit to the land of the rising sun...

Would really appreciate any helpfull input as I am looking down the barrel of a £1500 bill!!!! :shutit:

Cheers :winky:

Thats shocking. Always thought the LS range was rock solid, but Ive had alot of electrical problems with my LS430. It does surprise me that Lexus have taken such a strong view and seem to be missing the point that the part is faulty and the fix does not do what its surposed to.

It seems amazing that they are risking losing all that reputation over such a minor issue, bet the bits cost them nothing. Ive looked at the Toyota stuff you posted and it looks basic mechanical parts that should be a few pounds not thousands, if the parts has been reworked then Lexus will be passing the pain back onto its supplier as I bet they dont make these themselves,if they do then its just poor quality and shows they are no better then Fiat

Its interesting that lexus is unaware of any other issues than yours but the dealers say it happens alot, Ive heard that the RX is the same from my local dealer.

Shame on Lexus.

[ManicMark]

Ive got a LS430 (2003 Vintage!), which had the height sensors replaced at c60k when 4 years old. Lexus stumped up cos they recognise this is an area where the normal high LS stds of care and quality are not what they would want. Now the difficult bit..the things have failed again within 18mths of replacement and with less than extra 22k miles on the clock.

What are peoples feelings on this issue... how can I best go about getting the dealer/Lexus UK to play ball on what will be a second significant failure in the lifetime of this car.

Other than the alloy wheels blistering worse than a 16 year old boys face the rest of the car is a credit to the land of the rising sun...

Would really appreciate any helpfull input as I am looking down the barrel of a £1500 bill!!!! :shutit:

Cheers :winky:

Hi just noticed lexus Guildford are selling new height sensors on eBay for 49.95 might be of help to you

[mikesands]

oooo-er .... just bought a 2001 LS430 .... how would I know if there's a problem with the height sensors. When I adjust the ride height, I don't notice any difference, but maybe it's subtle?

I bought the car as an approved lexus used car from Lexus teesside so I would imagine they are covered.

Mike

[runbly]

oooo-er .... just bought a 2001 LS430 .... how would I know if there's a problem with the height sensors. When I adjust the ride height, I don't notice any difference, but maybe it's subtle?

I bought the car as an approved lexus used car from Lexus teesside so I would imagine they are covered.

Mike

The first LS430 I test drove I pressed the height raise button and nowt happened - I was a bit suspicious and the salesman didn't know what should happen. Either way I didn't buy the car.

The LS430 I have now - I tested the height button and when you are still, nothing happens - I suspect the raise takes place when you move. I have a tennis ball hung in the garage so it hits the windscreen when I am far enough in - with the height button raised the ball hit the bonnet first so it does work.

Maybe press the button drive forward a bit then get out and have a look - hopefully the gap between tyre and wheel arch will have grown!

Equally, doesn't the suspension lower at high speed - has anyone noticed that happening?

[mikesands]

I sat in the car on the drive last night and pressed the button. It does indeed move even when you are still. I'd say it rises or lowers by about an inch but it takes up to 60 seconds so is almost imperceptible. I thought I read somewhere that it's anything above 25mph and the hi ride is cancelled. On the basis I guess that you wouldn't really be going faster than 25mph down a rutted road.

on the whole ... pretty impressed, especially as I knackered my last GS300's exhaust system on our cart-track of a drive.

Mike

[sparkyhx]

are the sensors accessible to inspect and maybe add some anticorrosion stuff to

[mikesands]

are the sensors accessible to inspect and maybe add some anticorrosion stuff to

My question exactly .... but I don't think we'll get it answered. If the service interval is about 12 months and the only effective way of protecting the sensors is to clean them (say) every month, then Lexus is never going to suggest this to the punter, as he is going to turn up every month and demand that the dealer does it. And anyway it would be the same as admitting that there is a problem which apparently they are refusing to do.

What we need is someone on here who has actually stripped the things down and found them corroded, to say whether he thinks that regular cleaning and application of wd40 or acf50 would help .... and would be unlikely to cause any electrical problems.

Mike

[sparkyhx]

are the sensors accessible to inspect and maybe add some anticorrosion stuff to

My question exactly .... but I don't think we'll get it answered. If the service interval is about 12 months and the only effective way of protecting the sensors is to clean them (say) every month, then Lexus is never going to suggest this to the punter, as he is going to turn up every month and demand that the dealer does it. And anyway it would be the same as admitting that there is a problem which apparently they are refusing to do.

What we need is someone on here who has actually stripped the things down and found them corroded, to say whether he thinks that regular cleaning and application of wd40 or acf50 would help .... and would be unlikely to cause any electrical problems.

Mike

so I take it from this answer that we are not talking a connector in the wheel arch that can be unplugged sprayed and put back together then.

[mikesands]

are the sensors accessible to inspect and maybe add some anticorrosion stuff to

My question exactly .... but I don't think we'll get it answered. If the service interval is about 12 months and the only effective way of protecting the sensors is to clean them (say) every month, then Lexus is never going to suggest this to the punter, as he is going to turn up every month and demand that the dealer does it. And anyway it would be the same as admitting that there is a problem which apparently they are refusing to do.

What we need is someone on here who has actually stripped the things down and found them corroded, to say whether he thinks that regular cleaning and application of wd40 or acf50 would help .... and would be unlikely to cause any electrical problems.

Mike

so I take it from this answer that we are not talking a connector in the wheel arch that can be unplugged sprayed and put back together then.

Good news bad news.

The bad news is that what I thought was a bush is in fact one of the ride height sensors. The good news is that it's covered on the Lexus used car warranty. The worrying news is I have to hope the other 3 sensors go in the next 11 months. The technician says the monting b bolt had snapped. The service manager says that the usual problem with them is that people drive through puddles and they internally corrode. Who knows what the real problem is. I'm going to take a good look at the new one on Friday before they fit it, and see if I can come up with some way of regularly protecting it.

Mike

[ManicMark]

are the sensors accessible to inspect and maybe add some anticorrosion stuff to

My question exactly .... but I don't think we'll get it answered. If the service interval is about 12 months and the only effective way of protecting the sensors is to clean them (say) every month, then Lexus is never going to suggest this to the punter, as he is going to turn up every month and demand that the dealer does it. And anyway it would be the same as admitting that there is a problem which apparently they are refusing to do.

What we need is someone on here who has actually stripped the things down and found them corroded, to say whether he thinks that regular cleaning and application of wd40 or acf50 would help .... and would be unlikely to cause any electrical problems.

Mike

so I take it from this answer that we are not talking a connector in the wheel arch that can be unplugged sprayed and put back together then.

Good news bad news.

The bad news is that what I thought was a bush is in fact one of the ride height sensors. The good news is that it's covered on the Lexus used car warranty. The worrying news is I have to hope the other 3 sensors go in the next 11 months. The technician says the monting b bolt had snapped. The service manager says that the usual problem with them is that people drive through puddles and they internally corrode. Who knows what the real problem is. I'm going to take a good look at the new one on Friday before they fit it, and see if I can come up with some way of regularly protecting it.

Mike

So what he is saying then is you shoud not drive through puddles. Me thinks that would be a little bit difficult living in the UK. maybe an email to watchdog might help, Lexus being a premium brand ( you would reasonably expect a major suspension component to last about 10 years on a £60k car).

[mikesands]

Just thought y'all might like to know that Lexus Teesside have diagnosed another of my ride height sensors as faulty. I took it to them with the gripe that the gaps between tyres and wheel arches on all 4 wheels were different. They have diagnosed the worst (highest) one as the ride height sensor having a similar problem to the last one. Not a problem with the sensor itself but a looseness at the mounting point. The other one they replaced (n/s front) had actually snapped at the mounting point. Can't quite understand what they are telling me about this one (o/s front) - I think they said it was loose. Sounds like these are going to cost me when the 12 month warranty runs out :-(

Mike

[reayb]

one of the height sensors on my 07 plate 600h needs replacing 75000miles on the clock, so problem still about, £400 plus to replace

[mikethebike]

ManicMark,

are they still on eBay? I cannot find them, do you know the item number.

erm...forget that...just noticed the date you posted :) doh!

Cheers

Mick

[mikethebike]

Well...even breakers are looking for £150 for a single sensor.

Took the old one off, got the local garage to weld the bracket back on as it had broken off.

The plastic rod from the sensor to the bracket (with balljoint at each end) had also snapped...I am guessing the rod is made of plastic so its a weka point in case of seizure?

Anyhow, plenty of WD40, as the sensor had seized, has got it moving fine, plenty of grease around the moving parts to keep the majority of muck out and an improvised rod and balljoints the same length as the left side one (8cm between joints)....seems to be working just fine.

Took about 15 minutes to make the rod and balljoints, and 10 minutes to fit :)

[tonyflynn1]

Nice job Mick!

Where in Surrey are you?