Satnav While Moving & The Law

[PCthug]

Good answer sir so why doesnt it happen like that.

My link

. that was me a while ago. as you can see i was less than a cars length through the line and no where near the junction of the road and in no danger at all or caused any danger to anyone else. You would believe the fuss i had getting of with it.

When the lights did change i followed the police van. It had stopped outside the local station. When i asked as to the nature of the police vans hurry (in the following days) i was told the emergancy was a prisoner in the cells and as it was a skelinton staff station they needed back up. Prisoner?? my local station doesnt have cells or even interview room. It was half nine at night ( i think) and my local station is only open office hours. I still even now dont understand the law of what to do if i was in the same situation again!

Its obviously difficult for me to comment on your situation.

Cameras at lights sometimes (i beleive) take 2 photos, to show that the car was going through the lights and not reversing back over the white line.

If the van was respondng to a job then there would have been a record of it on the intergraph message and the radio transmission too.

However, most cameras are automatic, and send the fines out themselves. The operator cant view everyone of them, it wouldnt be practical (in most situations).

Its only when someone like yourself makes the complaint and has a justified reason that its viewed.

The central tickets office is usually staffed by civilians.

No court in the land would convict you of doing this.

Hell, i have even seen fines being sent to police and other emergency services even though the photo CLEARLY shows the blue lights on.

If i ever go through a red light or speed camera when responding i will tell control, even if i dont see it trigger, just in case.

It does happen where we get a call to a situation, we will put the blues and twos on, go through red lights and long lines of traffic, only to be cancelled due to enough people being there, the person caught, the situation defused or what ever may have happened.

Its a little embaressing turning the blues and twos off as we know that people will think we only did it to get past the traffic.

Where I have not doubt that this can and does happen where they will do it just to get out of a traffic jam, the officer is stupid to do so, and could quite easily lose their job of even get a custodial sentance if it goes pear shaped.

Some satalite stations dont hold prisoners, but some do have interview rooms, and can accomodate voluntary attenders. Some may even attend the station to hand themselves in.

It is a 9-5 station, that will mean that the front desk is manned between 9-5, but officers will still work from there all night (most likely).

Are you sure it was the same van? Can you be sure that they werent cancelled? can you be sure you spoke to the correct person in the following days? The police get LOTS of emergency calls, and when a complaint comes in its notoriously difficult trying to locate the correct officer involved (unless you got the reg).

If it happens again, then play it by ear. I would pull over, edge through a red light, or even speed, as i know how frustrating it is when responding, only to be stuck behind 'driving miss daisy' or someone who pulls over for you 'right next to' a centre road island or opposite an oncoming vehicle doing the same, leaving you no space to get passed.

[fil4362]

I never even hesitated to drive through the lights, would do it again tomorow if it happened again.the picture is the second shot thats as far as i moved. I didnt ned to move any more as the copper had gone through. If the car in the left lane had been awake i wouldnt have had to move at all. If you look at the picture the guy in the Astra right out in the middle of the junction was way way in the middle of the junction he was causing the problem, he to only moved as the guy in the left lane didnt have a clue the copper was there. The ticket office were not very helpfull when i contacted them they said "it might not be a police car in the picture" They told me they had reviewed the picture and couldnt be certain !!! were they looking at the same picture as me?

I live just east of city centre manchester, they are currently putting the tram through here and the road works are terrible. Every time the blues and 2s come through some one some were panics. I know exactly what you mean when you say people pull over next to a bollard leaving you no room. sometimes it is beter not to stop at all just keep going until theres actually space to give you space. I have recently seen a few ambulances just turning the sirens of and waiting so as not to cause panic, on the other hand i have seen many coppers demanding the public get out of the way, saw one woman last week almost drive into the hole they had dug to get out of the way. Its usually beat bobbies in vans that i see trying to bully their way through and demand people move. I pretty sure the blue lights mean i am here move out of my way if its safe to do so, not GET OUT OF MY WAY NOW .

In the end i didnt get the fine but only because i went to the press about it i had rospa the police and all sorts of other governing bodies telling me i should have done this i shound have done that you should have seen the comments left on that web site giving me a hard time "mr lexus has to drive under the same laws as everyone else, shouldnt get of with it just because he has a lexus" weird people. I heard from people, on guy especially who got a ticket for driving in a bus lane moving over for an ambulance!!. He had to pay his fine took him months to get it back. Justs needs people in the ticket office that have comman sence and not just pen pushers.

[ihpj]

I pretty sure the blue lights mean i am here move out of my way if its safe to do so, not GET OUT OF MY WAY NOW.

Quite right, the Blues'n'Twos are part of the warning equipment - which by definition means they are there to alert others that an emergency vehicle is coming, please be on your guard.

Warning equipment is there to warn others...not bully them.

[04AAA]

Warning equipment is there to warn others...not bully them.

I wonder if that statement can be offered in defense of a charge of "failed to stop"

[fil4362]

Another very good point. If blues and twos means "be aware i am here" could it be used as a defence of failing to stop. What is the diffrence between the 2. As far as i knew only a trafic officer clearly displaying a "police stop" sign could make you stop. Anything else was mearly warnign you they are there. Is this right pcthug

[PCthug]

Another very good point. If blues and twos means "be aware i am here" could it be used as a defence of failing to stop. What is the diffrence between the 2. As far as i knew only a trafic officer clearly displaying a "police stop" sign could make you stop. Anything else was mearly warnign you they are there. Is this right pcthug

The law states that you must stop when directed to by an officer in uniform.

It doesnt actually say what the uniform consists of, or what the officer is, as long as the officer is recognisable as a police officer.

So when you hear that a copper has to be wearing their hat to stop you, its rubbish.

Failing to stop can lead to an arrest (for failing to stop, surprisingly).

No court would let you off for not stopping, as the officer is saying 'i am here' but for a reason (they want you to stop).

[fil4362]

so in that case any blue lights and sirens means stop? or does the car have to be clearly marked police?

if an off duty copper shows me his id card do i have to obey him? i was parked the other day, legally parked i might add. A car pulled along side me the driver showed me a police id card and told me to get of my phone. The car was a pt cruiser with mods so pretty certain it was his own car and he was in civies. He told em as the engine was running i was incharge of the car/ and at the wheel. Is this law correct and did i have to abey him?

[PCthug]

so in that case any blue lights and sirens means stop? or does the car have to be clearly marked police?

if an off duty copper shows me his id card do i have to obey him? i was parked the other day, legally parked i might add. A car pulled along side me the driver showed me a police id card and told me to get of my phone. The car was a pt cruiser with mods so pretty certain it was his own car and he was in civies. He told em as the engine was running i was incharge of the car/ and at the wheel. Is this law correct and did i have to abey him?

If you dont believe a car is a police car, but is showing blues and twos then you dont have to stop. But that doesnt mean speed off. If your that concerned drive to a police station and stop outside. Have your passenger phone the police (999) to express your concern. Acknowledge to the driver that you have seen them, so they have an idea what you are doing when you dont stop for them.

It sounds as though this guy was either very young in service, sad or stupid.

I try to distance myself from anything work related as i simply wouldnt know who i was stopping.

I would be worried that they caused harm to me, my family or damaged my car.

However, if i 'had to' perform my duty out of working hours i would do.

A police officer can put themselves on duty at any time, and indeed should NOT turn their back on a crime. But common sense has to prevail.

They are still a police officer, and should be treated as one if they show to you who they are.

Also, how do you know it was a police ID card? It could have been anything with 'police' wrote on it.

As for this case, it would depend on your version of parked legally.

If it was at the side of the road amongst other cars, then no, i wouldnt stop you, even if i was on duty. If you were stopped at a junction or at a set of lights then yes i would (when on duty).

I see people driving whilst using their mobiles EVERY day when off duty.

What is the point of stopping them unless you are going to do something about it? is it a show of force? or a 'look at me, i am a copper' type of thing?

You can be in charge of a vehicle in various ways.

Firstly, just having the keys in your pocket is showing that your in charge of it. This wont get anywhere in court though.

Secondly, parked up with engine running or even off, your still in charge. This probably wouldnt get anywhere either, unless they could prove you intended to drive off (seatbelt on, in gear, looking over shoulder etc).

lastly, sitting in as an experienced driver for a learner. You are in charge and can get a ticket if your on your mobile phone (despite being in the passenger seat). So be aware, if you let your learner significant other half drive after a night out when your drunk, you can be arrested for drunk in charge.

[fil4362]

So be aware, if you let your learner significant other half drive after a night out when your drunk, you can be arrested for drunk in charge

Very interesting point never looked at it that way before. But yes i guess its true.