doog442

An excellent piece of research @LenTand thanks for having the patience to write a clear and concise summary with links to back it up. My speciality (if you can call it that ) was covert video surveillance and the myriad of hoops one must jump through in that regard including RIPA (just don't go there :-)

Notwithstanding the study and examinations required to reach a certain rank certainly puts paid to the assertion by our learned friend Linas that 'the police have no clue about the law'...extremely insulting for those of us who  studied and passed several detailed examinations in 'evidence and procedure' amongst other chapters of brain jarring tyranny (Video footage is evidence as we all know)

Its refreshing to see that Police forces are utilising dash cam evidence (I'm long since retired) and any defence solicitor worth his salt should tell his client to just admit it if the evidence is blatantly obvious rather than look for technical reasons to buck the system. Luckily the courts are wise to it.  The bane of my life were the hard core of solicitors who would rather take a client to trial (and risk a much stiffer sentence) simply because it financially benefited the practice - and then tell them to admit it on the day.

That said if you genuinely believe you were Innocent then plead not guilty and let the magistrates view the evidence. Don't forget that if it reaches that stage it would have passed all of the necessary CPS criteria to offer a realistic prospect of conviction. 

Sigh. There's no requirement under CPS guidelines to have time or dates on videos and if these aren't present it doesn't Invalidate it, its not thrown out and the sky doesn't fall in. The courts accept its impossible to always have an accurate time / date stamp on footage. I know some Police Forces say ideally you should have it on a dash cam but its not a deal breaker in any way, shape or form as long as you can account for the discrepancy as pointed out by Len.  The primary evidence is what you saw with your eyes, the video simply supports it.None of us have a time / date stamp in our memory and witness statements aren't Invalidated simply because you got the time wrong, the same with footage. 

You basically need to prove continuity with video evidence which is done by way of a statement. 

In other words the approx time you started your car (and the dashcam started filming), the description of the Incident itself with time / day / date /place in other words what you witnessed. The time you concluded your journey and the time / date you downloaded the footage .The footage (in whatever format) is produced as an exhibit. 

The Police will (if they decide to investigate) send a Notice of Intended prosecution (NIP) and Requirement for name and address of the driver under S172 of the Road Traffic Act. 

The owner has to respond, if he says he was driver at the alleged time of the Incident then that's evidential in itself, as well as the video and statement of the witness. Quite compelling I would argue dependant on the nature of the offence. 

Quite a few cyclists have been successful in using camera footage to support prosecutions against dangerous or inconsiderate drivers. I think the frustrating thing is that there's no common policy across all Police forces. This may be down to resources, budget or force policies. Reducing road accident casualties was always a top priority filtered down from the Government because as I said its an extremely expensive thing for the taxpayer to deal with.  

That said a camera is ideal in relation to incidents or accidents at Insurance level with no police Involvement where the burden of proof is much lower (balance of probabilities).

Oh hang on I've just read two posts up that police have no clue about the law  ...

43 minutes ago, ALAW said:

I once lived happily a few years ago down a road opposite a school with a cross roads about 200 metres past the school 30mph limit. My next door neighbour was a retired police inspector. Many a time we would be in our front gardens doing the garden cutting a hedge passing time of day having a chat. lost count of the number of RTC,s at the cross roads. We asked how many there had been one year. We challenged what they told us. Apparently not all RTC,s are recorded they changed the way or criterea what is recorded apparently or that is what we were told. Just saying.

It tends to be Injury RTC's that are recorded then graded slight/ serious etc. If there are no allegations, Injuries, and names and addresses exchanged then they were rarely recorded. Injury RTC's were always recorded and these formed the basis for any improvement work by the LA if required.

2 hours ago, wharfhouse said:

It's too simplistic though to say that speed is the cause of death in one third of fatal accidents - as I was trying to say in my post it's not speed per se it's idiotic driving in many cases - yes they may have been speeding by some arbitrary speed limit but more often than not the accident occurs through the driver making a stupid manoeuvre or losing control. Simply lowering a speed limit further still will not stop the idiots. Neither will more speed cameras or vans. A few more patrol cars actually out on the roads might help more as they would stand some chance of stopping the idiots before they actually cause an accident. I appreciate the police are pulled from pillar to post and have a lot of respect for what they have to do but until we simply stop dealing with the symptoms and get to the root causes where do we stop lowering the speed limits? In my 4 days in Devon (including travelling there and back from Berkshire) I didn't see any police patrol cars but did witness some shocking and downright dangerous driving. 

It's not too simplistic, they're the facts I'm afraid although its a decent debate. There's an intrinsic link between speed and road traffic casualties. Reduce speed and you reduce the risk, even if its an idiot behind the wheel , adverse weather or someone with bad eyesight and slow reactions. Its basic stuff and not all victims are idiots. 

Speed cameras are far more effective than a police patrol and that's the reason RPU's have all but disappeared. You only have to look at fatality rates since the Introduction of this technology to see that it actually works it pains me to say. 

Here's a few links but nothing exhaustive.

https://www.rospa.com/media/documents/road-safety/speed-cameras-factsheet.pdf

The first speed cameras in Great Britain were installed in West London in 1992. In the first three years of operation14 , at the camera sites they:  Reduced the number of people killed by 70%  Reduced the number of people seriously injured by 27%  Reduced the number of people slightly injured by 8%. A 1996 study15 found that speed cameras reduced casualties by about 28%.

Conclusion The evidence for speed cameras shows that they are effective at reducing speeds and preventing accidents, especially in preventing more serious and fatal accidents.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tanyamohn/2018/03/30/speed-kills-new-global-study-confirms-strong-link-between-crash-risk-and-vehicle-speed/?sh=611e6df6529e

9 hours ago, wharfhouse said:

but the mantra is still speeding kills. Nope, idiotic driving of any type kills. Which can include speeding but is as likely to be for many other reasons that no-one can be bothered to investigate or change the behaviours.

 

Speed is a cause of death in one third of fatal accidents. So that's 1200 a year.  All fatalities are Investigated in an extremely complex manner so that conclusion is probably accurate. We can argue over what's 'acceptable' but to me this figure isn't. 

(Trust me I'm a natural petrolhead and can't quite resort to an IS300h so have no desire to quash things down to zero)

20 mph limits are totally justified in certain areas, schools etc. My lad lives in Devon and we visit quite often, even last weekend . We must have done 200 miles and  I'm not sure I saw a 20 mph limit unless it was warranted.  So why people are getting their knickers in a twist is slightly beyond me, I'd move there tomorrow. ...

I'm not a sure a 20mph limit will stop tourists, it might even slow the buggers down. 

In relation to 20mph limits. I appreciate not many on here cycle, however it's not until you cycle down a street at 20mph that you realise that its actually quite fast in a built up area or residential street . It certainly seems faster than driving along in a 1.5 ton car entombed in a world of A/C , apple car play and the rest. 

Of course the point of a 20mph limit is mainly down to fatality rates and the associated costs of fatal or Injury accidents. A 2.5% chance of fatality at 20mph , rising to 20% at 30mph. Naturally more chance of this outside schools or in built up areas. 

A cost is put on every accident. A fatal accident cost more than a life, it's a considerable amount of money to deal with and Investigate, amounting to several million pounds. If a particular location suffers a certain number of say Injury accidents, its looked at in detail and improvements are made to road Infrastructure, traffic calming etc so more expense. 

In relation to UK motorways and nitrous emissions, yep that sort of loony decision doesn't surprise me in the slightest  

9 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

I wonder how many RR owners will shout "Hooray, its gone! come and have a look dear, its finally gone!

My personal worst fear would be thieves entering the house. In the end its only a car so if they really want it take it. My BMW was stolen some years ago. I walked towards the car in the morning and i noticed a car parked next to it with a guy sitting in it. As we live in a very quiet neighbourhood this was strange. Never saw him before. Next morning my car was gone. I am convinced he was reading my key with an infrared scanner when i opened it up.

Glad he didnt enter the house looking for the key though!

Indeed back in the day they would sneak through the unlocked back or side door and simply take your keys. I recall this guy who had just bought a brand new Mitsubishi EVO 8 in red. 

The first call was that there was a sports car that had collided with a lamp post on a notorious estate. The second call was from the owner 3 miles away saying his new car had vanished, the 3rd call was that someone had set said stolen car on fire. All happened within minutes.   

3 hours ago, Linas.P said:

To be fair this is problem which only exists in UK. In most other countries where proper self-defence is premitted this would be expectioanlly rare, but in UK seems to be quite common relativelly speaking.

Disagree. You can use reasonable force in the UK to prevent Burglary theft or criminal damage. If someone broke into your house, short of killing them you'd be justified in your actions as long as you felt it was reasonable and that includes grabbing anything to hand to complete the task.  Shooting them as they legged it down the garden path might not pass that threshold test however and that was probably our most famous case. 

Just now, paulrnx said:

I also can’t get my golf clubs and trolley in the boot without dropping one of the rear seats. The latter is probably a deal breaker for me because it means my clubs would always be on display. As has been said by many, the boot is quite poor.

 

That's the deal breaker for me as well. In the IS and now the 340i I can keep the trolley tucked back out the way and the bag will go sideways.

My dealer do this daft thing of cramming in tiny suitcases in the UX, like they're trying to convince you that silly tiny space can hold more than two jack Russels.

That said I looked in the boot of an NX last week and walked away. How do you get a set of clubs and a trolley in there ? 

1 hour ago, NemesisUK said:

I didn't know there were differences in VED (Vehicle Excise Duty)between automatics and manual cars?

A manual IS250 is £585, auto £340.  It might explain the manual cars at rock bottom prices, that's hard to stomach on a cheap car.  The manual gearbox appears to have been discontinued in the UK in 2008/9 for the mark 2.

On 7/14/2021 at 12:17 PM, Killysprint said:

Must admit with the prices that are being achieved at the moment, I'm thinking about selling my car as its not being used, wait for the market to normalise, then replace it. Question is what with?

I was thinking the same. My first thought was an IS250 to knock around in for £2-3 k . Auto obviously for VED reasons. There are loads out there for under £5k.  They wear the mileage well so I guess with a decent MOT history and the usual forum checks its a cheap way to perhaps gain from the current situation. The problem is how long will this go on for ? 

1 hour ago, LenT said:

I agree with some of your post, Doog.  There can be no doubt that the scrap merchants handing over cash to buy a truckload of sawn off catalytic converters can have any doubt about how they were obtained.

Marking these items is only effective if the merchant is caught with them on the premises.  But that only has to happen once to form the basis of a case against them.  Which I suggest makes it worthwhile.

As for the warning sticker, I'd compare it to fitting a dummy burglar alarm box to the outside of your house.  A casual passing chummy may or may not think it's real, but may be more inclined to try the place next door - which doesn't have one.

But in any case, the converter thieves cruising around for a target are looking for a specific make and model.  These aren't random attacks.  So they spot their victim long before they clock the warning sticker.

Whether knowing it may be marked is a deterrent or not probably depends on how likely they are to be caught in possession.  Or the scrap dealer to refuse to handle it.  Now we may all agree that both events are unlikely, but as I say...it only has to pay off the once.

Being in possession of a large number of old, sawn off converters is not a criminal offence.  Being in possession of one associated with a recent theft, is.

So on balance, I suggest the cost and effort of marking is worthwhile.  

Excellent points Len, I guess I just had my cynical head on after years of fighting losing battles.  We tried all sorts, threw a lot of public money and resources at it, including installing tracking devices with limited success. 

However that was before vehicle and most acquisitive crime was knocked on the head as a priority by the Government during their swinging cuts and various units dealing with this sort of stuff disbanded. Unfortunately cat theft is simply classed as a theft from a motor vehicle and often won't even warrant a police visit. So the next step down is crime prevention, a little like stamping post codes on bicycles. Massively labour Intensive for little reward that had absolutely zero impact on cycle theft. However it made the bicycle owner feel better and it ticked plenty of boxes in relation to policing plans and public engagement.

The solution is simple, lock it or lose it. However at least these initiatives are raising awareness so people can take their own preventative measures. In relation to pro active targeting of these Individuals, more patrols to respond to these thefts, start treating vehicle crime as a priority, multi agency approach - in short more cops. The government have policing on a string. When they cut numbers they change crime priorities and record things differently, when they add numbers then suddenly it changes and they turn around and tell the public how they're now reducing crime - hence the cynicism. There was however some recent success I understand with a Joint initiative on this issue and probably a few more unpublicised.   

John mentions the scrap metal Industry. The biggest drop in scrap metal thefts happened when cash transactions were made illegal. All money had to go through bank accounts (cheque or electronic transfer)  however we found an awful lot of stuff was clearly going through the back door. The Police do actually have powers to enter scrap metal dealers, examine the books etc but as with everything it comes down to priorities and resources. Vehicle crime simply isn't a priority, facebook threats on the other hand . 

7 hours ago, MadJam250 said:

Just had my cat watermarked at Lexus and a security window sticker applied to that effect. Is that really going to act as a deterrent and/or reduce insurance premiums? 

My mother in law had a Police letter inviting her to several named local garages to have her cat watermarked on her Honda Jazz. 

The cynic in me told me that vehicle would never get out of there without some 'advisories' on tyres, brake pads / discs or phantom leaking shocks. 

I'm going to be brutally honest here having had a career dealing with all sorts, including scrap metal dealers .Its a complete waste of time marking any parts, simply a public relations exercise but I guess you appreciate that looking at your post. These people have outlets that simply won't check / care if its marked and the Police rarely seize stuff from scrap metal dealers.  I'd argue the security sticker would actually be an advert to the scum that you have the cat they want and to whip it off. 

9 minutes ago, Ace8800 said:

I bought a ISF of Lexus in Hull.. they drove to me to Birmingham to show me the car after a £500 deposit (refundable if i didn't like it). Anyway was told it will have new pads and disks and full service. Cant go wrong. . . Or can it. . ? 

A month later i hear a noise from the brakes, took it for Birmingham Lexus and they told me the pads are low and disks are new. I drove the car about 500miles in that month (family driving). No way could the pads get less then 70% IN 500MILES. 

Cut a long story short i had emails to back up the work they said they will do, which they refused initially they did. Cant believe they used old pads on new discs on a 400+ bhp car. I got some money back for the pads. So my experience with Lexus Hull... never going back.

That's nuts ! I can understand new pads on part worn discs but the other way around  .To change the discs you need to remove the calipers and the old pads just pull out or fall out even, a simple job to ease the piston back and slot new pads in, takes minutes. That's truly unforgivable, as you say on a performance vehicle as well.  

19 hours ago, Initial P said:

I see Lexus Stoke has a Solar Flare GSF 23k miles for just under £40K.

No pics up yet I wonder how long it will last?

It's not Lexus Stoke but an Independent. The price is daft for a non main dealer vehicle but reflects the current market stupidity / shortage of pre owned vehicles. 

Good for those offloading but not those buying. 

26 minutes ago, First_Lexus said:

To be fair, the last World Cup was in Russia and the one before that in Brazil - neither of which are exactly known for human rights and democracy! 

If events such as this are to be held in places other than Western Europe, US, Australia or Japan then they have to choose some slightly dubious locations. Argentina 1978 anybody?

I think the organisers believe - corruption aside - that this sort of event can act as an enabler for better behaviour. I do tend to agree, but only if there are agreements in place for the future. When it comes to a country like Putin’s Russia (as an example) we can point out the flaws and our concerns, but we also need to understand that he won’t be in power forever and that sometimes the diplomatic approach can be beneficial. It’s tough to penalise the ordinary people for the actions of their leadership. Mind you, if I was Ukrainian living in Crimea I might not exactly agree with that!!!

Yep I understand the ethos of awarding these tournaments to countries that might benefit from the exposure, the money and the idea that it may bring improvements to society, plus the diverse nature of it happening in various places that ordinarily miss out on the circus that follows it. 

A little like the Olympics. When it was held in the UK the sailing venue was Portland down here in Dorset. Apparently Weymouth and Portland would suddenly morph into the Monaco of the south coast as a result of being on the world stage, Investment and new jobs would follow etc. They got a new road and that was it, Portland is still one of the most deprived areas down here.

I think as a football fan this grates quite a bit. No history of football, however it ticked a diversity box as the first Muslim / Arab nation to host a finals which isn't a bad thing of course but we have the alleged corruption, mistreatment of migrant workers with 6500 deaths over the last decade. One may ask how or why they deserve to hold such a prestigious tournament. 

The beauty for England fans are the excellent transport links, with numerous daily flights from  Birmingham, Heathrow, London and to be fair a very good airline to boot. That's really about it as far as I'm concerned but hey ho we never have a say in these things.  Now its on the horizon I wonder how things will play out for the actual fans ie accommodation, hospitality etc with strict rules on alcohol. I don't doubt for a minute Qatar will manage the tournament exceptionally well. 

I must admit I was almost tempted to bin the run flats on my BMW three years back when the car was new(Bridgestone Potenzas) simply because apparently that's what people allegedly do. However I thought I'd wait until at least they were showing some kind of wear to justify it but the bloody things won't wear out 

That said its on 19" tyres and I doubt I'd feel much improvement, especially with M Sport suspension.

Surprised to hear Lexus use them, there's talk of a vast improvement in the feel of modern run flats but that's rarely reflected in various online forums.  

On 7/12/2021 at 1:07 PM, dutchie01 said:

Anyway here's to Qatar next year, the country with an exciting football league of its own!

The press will go into overdrive over human rights Issues and the deaths of migrant workers. There's already talk of players boycotting. What an absolutely appalling decision to award them a World Cup. I guess we will never really get to the bottom of how much was handed out in backhanders as I understand Investigations are still ongoing.     

1 hour ago, Arnett said:

That's ridiculous... 😂😅 

Mine was sold to the Swindon for the price I purchased it from Hull and then inflated up for 36995. 

 

Monzo sold the blue one at sub 34 & the previous black one at 36. Both had impeccable mileage. (I offered them my GSF for less than what lexus purchased it off me but they said no due to them struggling to shift the blue one & they came back offering me 28 which I laughed off )

 

We are seeing a beautiful inflation of price, but personally I wouldn't buy one again till it drops down to 2020 prices again 😅. 40k can buy a LOT of decent second hand motor. 

Second hand prices across the board are completely nuts. There are people selling new cars to WBAC they purchased on finance and walking away with hefty cash in hand profits. If I sold now I'd be looking at 16% depreciation from new over 36 months which is practically unheard of. 

15 minutes ago, First_Lexus said:

I’m fully aware that opinions about the (Italian owned, Pozzo family) Watford management structure vary - to say the least - but they do know when to ruthlessly move a manager on if it isn’t working or if they feel a different manager could do better. I can’t help feeling that time is now for England if we’re going to have a real chance of reaching the World Cup semi-finals or beyond. I hope I’m wrong, I really do!

From an AFCB ST holder...enjoy Josh King - not a bad transfer on a free if you can get the best out of him. I'd say best of luck for next season but the silly little rivalry that's built up between us prevents me ..(only joking I'm above all that but it seems large sections of our respective support on both sides aren't -at least on social media )

As for last night - frustration. Frustration that we could ALL see Italy getting back into the game and Southgate did nothing to counter it. The subs were too late and I won't comment on the penalties as I took the dog around the block knowing what would happen so missed them on purpose.  You could hear the roar from nearby houses when the Italians missed then silence, a very long silence. That said we're all armchair experts, fair play to England for making the final, at least the win over the Germans buried a few demons. 

20 minutes ago, rayaans said:

Am I missing something 

You are correct in your observation. The situation got quite delicate today and at risk of identifying the dealership I asked for my post to be removed.

20 minutes ago, rayaans said:

I suppose you pay your money, make your choices but its always handy to have a FLSH if something does manage to go POP, even if it is your fault!

My thoughts exactly, especially during the manufacturers warranty period. 

9 hours ago, steveo1973 said:

I bought a Lexus IS300H back in January on a 15plate and no it wasnt from a main dealer but full main dealer history and battery health check. Is that a good thing.....Im not so sure. Personally I would never get my car serviced at a main dealer and wont with this one. Their are plenty of specialist garages out their who probably employ ex what ever dealer technitions who will probably make a better job and do over your car as they appreciate the business. All I do is pay my 60 pound a year to Lexus to look after the battery and service it at a specialist!. Enough said 60k service at main dealer wanted 650 pound. Done at specialist using service pack from Lexus 220 pound!

Although I kind of agree with your assertion I personally get my cars serviced at main dealers until the warranty expires then I go down the Independent route if I still have the car. I do have a trusted Independent for the family hacks but there's no way he can update the idrive with the service history. Only a few Independents can do this (I'm talking BMW) and their prices aren't that far off main dealer prices.

It's worth more to me when I move my cars on to have a full dealership history up until at least three years old. I know it isn't required for warranty purposes but its certainly paid off when part exchanging in the early years. No issues like yours at 5/6 years old.   

3 hours ago, 200h said:

since starting this post i looked at buying an Rc300h with the levinson system installed

the dealer left a cd in the head unit and to be honest i wasnt blown away with it

i thought it would of sounded soo much better than it did, i'm presuming the cd

was left in the car intentionally to demonstrate the sound system.

Likewise took an RC300h with ML for a long test drive recently and was unimpressed with the sound system. It didn't compare with my Harman Kardon. That said you probably have to do some fiddling with the settings to try and hit that sweet spot, that takes time and although I tried I couldn't find anything approaching the HK.  What is noticeable across all brands of vehicle is that a certain system can sound far superior or inferior in different models.  

I was casually looking at the silver one at Hedge End. I guess you were given the heads up on yours before it reached the forecourt. Lovely colour, spec and of course that mileage !