Transmission Rough Spot

[Platypus]

My IS300h is 3 months old now and I've driven about 3800 miles. I noticed this first about 2 months ago and it seems to be appearing more and more: When driving between 50 and 60mph in Economy mode the transmission gives a kind of vibration that one can just about feel. I could only describe it as a kind of light harmonic distortion, as if the electric motor and the engine are not in sync. If you stay at the same speed it gets quite irritating, especially compared to the car's usual smooth and quiet composure. In Normal or Sport it seems to occur less, or at least for a smaller speed range.

I haven't discussed this with my dealer yet as it might be 'normal,' so I'd like to hear if it's just me, my car, or more that us!

Has anyone else a similar experience?

Many thanks

[Clearline]

I have not heard and noises like that. I usually drive in Eco mode most of the time.

[dannemare]

My IS300h is 3 months old now and I've driven about 3800 miles. I noticed this first about 2 months ago and it seems to be appearing more and more: When driving between 50 and 60mph in Economy mode the transmission gives a kind of vibration that one can just about feel. I could only describe it as a kind of light harmonic distortion, as if the electric motor and the engine are not in sync. If you stay at the same speed it gets quite irritating, especially compared to the car's usual smooth and quiet composure. In Normal or Sport it seems to occur less, or at least for a smaller speed range.

I haven't discussed this with my dealer yet as it might be 'normal,' so I'd like to hear if it's just me, my car, or more that us!

Has anyone else a similar experience?

Many thanks

Oh no. I certain hope this is something what will be rectified for you asap. If there is something I cannot live with, it is engine/drivetrain issues.

Before looking into the 300h, I was hooked on the new BMW 328i, but try a search for "malfunction" on http://www.f30post.com/forums/ and a million posts pop up with owners who have problems causing limp mode and whatnot.

John, please keep us posted on how things turn out.

[Platypus]

Many thanks Clearline and Dannemare. I think I'll bring it back to the dealer then.

[dannemare]

Many thanks Clearline and Dannemare. I think I'll bring it back to the dealer then.

What did the dealer say?

[Platypus]

Haven't been back to the dealer yet and wasn't using it for the last few weeks. Will be bringing it in for winter tyres week after next and will hand in the list of defects. Are you feeling absolutely nothing, even a slight shudder or vibration; I noticed something similar on my girlfriend's Auris hybrid?

[dannemare]

Haven't been back to the dealer yet and wasn't using it for the last few weeks. Will be bringing it in for winter tyres week after next and will hand in the list of defects. Are you feeling absolutely nothing, even a slight shudder or vibration; I noticed something similar on my girlfriend's Auris hybrid?

I don't have a 300h (yet) myself. ;)

[dblacha]

My IS300h is 3 months old now and I've driven about 3800 miles. I noticed this first about 2 months ago and it seems to be appearing more and more: When driving between 50 and 60mph in Economy mode the transmission gives a kind of vibration that one can just about feel. I could only describe it as a kind of light harmonic distortion, as if the electric motor and the engine are not in sync. If you stay at the same speed it gets quite irritating, especially compared to the car's usual smooth and quiet composure. In Normal or Sport it seems to occur less, or at least for a smaller speed range.

I haven't discussed this with my dealer yet as it might be 'normal,' so I'd like to hear if it's just me, my car, or more that us!

Has anyone else a similar experience?

Many thanks

Hi!

It seems to we've observed the same issue: http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic/86868-potential-manufacturing-defect/

Regards,

Dominik.

[dazed]

I had an IS300h out for a test drive a few weeks ago and noticed an annoying whine/very slight vibration when the car reached about 65mph.

It wasn't particularly loud or intrusive, but it was definitely there and after a dozen miles or so became rather irritating.

I couldn't be totally sure where it was coming from, but I didn't think it was the tyres - it felt to me like it was coming from somewhere under the bonnet (although I appreciate that's not very helpful).

For me it was a dealer breaker, which was a shame as there was a lot about the car that I liked.

[Platypus]

I had an IS300h out for a test drive a few weeks ago and noticed an annoying whine/very slight vibration when the car reached about 65mph.

It wasn't particularly loud or intrusive, but it was definitely there and after a dozen miles or so became rather irritating.

I couldn't be totally sure where it was coming from, but I didn't think it was the tyres - it felt to me like it was coming from somewhere under the bonnet (although I appreciate that's not very helpful).

For me it was a dealer breaker, which was a shame as there was a lot about the car that I liked.

Hi Dazed, we've moved this topic over to "Potential Manufacturing Defect" if you'd like to follow it. Everybody reporting the problem (just 3 of us so far, unfortunately, so welcome to the club!) agrees it happens between around 80 - 90kph when the engine is between 1300 and 1400 rpm, and it goes away if you paddle down a 'virtual' gear. I'm pretty sure there is a solution because most owners don't have the problem - perhaps a little electronic tweaking of the CVT. Please don't let this turn you off the car. I'm bringing mine in to the dealer in a few weeks, and will be taking all the comments with me, so watch this space.

[TED]

I had an IS300h out for a test drive a few weeks ago and noticed an annoying whine/very slight vibration when the car reached about 65mph.

It wasn't particularly loud or intrusive, but it was definitely there and after a dozen miles or so became rather irritating.

I couldn't be totally sure where it was coming from, but I didn't think it was the tyres - it felt to me like it was coming from somewhere under the bonnet (although I appreciate that's not very helpful).

For me it was a dealer breaker, which was a shame as there was a lot about the car that I liked.

Hi Dazed, we've moved this topic over to "Potential Manufacturing Defect" if you'd like to follow it. Everybody reporting the problem (just 3 of us so far, unfortunately, so welcome to the club!) agrees it happens between around 80 - 90kph when the engine is between 1300 and 1400 rpm, and it goes away if you paddle down a 'virtual' gear. I'm pretty sure there is a solution because most owners don't have the problem - perhaps a little electronic tweaking of the CVT. Please don't let this turn you off the car. I'm bringing mine in to the dealer in a few weeks, and will be taking all the comments with me, so watch this space.

Hi Dazed, at least three more of us in France have reported this vibration problem, two on F-Sport and one on Executive version. And as stated on the other topic, it has been reported an other Toyota hybrid models as well.

[dblacha]

I had an IS300h out for a test drive a few weeks ago and noticed an annoying whine/very slight vibration when the car reached about 65mph.

It wasn't particularly loud or intrusive, but it was definitely there and after a dozen miles or so became rather irritating.

I couldn't be totally sure where it was coming from, but I didn't think it was the tyres - it felt to me like it was coming from somewhere under the bonnet (although I appreciate that's not very helpful).

For me it was a dealer breaker, which was a shame as there was a lot about the car that I liked.

Hi Dazed, we've moved this topic over to "Potential Manufacturing Defect" if you'd like to follow it. Everybody reporting the problem (just 3 of us so far, unfortunately, so welcome to the club!) agrees it happens between around 80 - 90kph when the engine is between 1300 and 1400 rpm, and it goes away if you paddle down a 'virtual' gear. I'm pretty sure there is a solution because most owners don't have the problem - perhaps a little electronic tweaking of the CVT. Please don't let this turn you off the car. I'm bringing mine in to the dealer in a few weeks, and will be taking all the comments with me, so watch this space.

Hi Dazed, at least three more of us in France have reported this vibration problem, two on F-Sport and one on Executive version. And as stated on the other topic, it has been reported an other Toyota hybrid models as well.

Hi, and please add to the list three reports from Poland - my IS300h, the "demo car" from a Lexus Salon which I drove with service mechanic who heard this issue from a first seconds, and random info from the IS300h owner when I met him on a gas station.

[AussieBee]

Hi, my name is John (from Sydney, Australia),

I purchased a Lexus IS300h in August 2013 and have also experienced the transmission "rough spot" in this car. I'm a retired automotive steering/suspension engineer, and drivetrain NVH (indeed any NVH) really, really annoys me!!

Yes, there is undoubtedly a drivetrain vibration problem in the IS300h when the engine is operating at low load at about 1200 - 1300 rpm, which corresponds to about 80 - 90 km/hr on an open flat freeway. It is most noticeable in ECO mode where the planetary "CVT" response is designed to be sluggish (on purpose). In Normal or Sports mode the problem is masked somewhat because the rpm advances through the 1200 - 1300 speed range - so you just get a shorter "kick" in the vibration.

As one of the other LOC bloggers say, the vibration resembles a "rumble" or interior "boom" and sounds a bit like driving a manual transmission car in top gear at excessively low revs. As an automotive engineer, my guess is that it is caused a drivetrain vibration resonance, which interacts with a fundamental frequency of the air volume in the passenger compartment. (hence the audible "boom"). I wish I had my old spectral analysis equipment, and then I could tell you the exact frequency!!

Anyway, "Mr Lexus Drivetrain Engineer in Nagoya", you have clearly missed this problem in your exhaustive testing, and there is a number of Lexus IS300h new owners in the world quite annoyed by it. The local Lexus service guys cannot do anything about it. We need an engineering fix, may be a remapping of the drivetrain ECU or changing of the transmission mount spring-rates to eliminate/attenuate the problem.

[gtb5]

Hi, my name is John (from Sydney, Australia),

I purchased a Lexus IS300h in August 2013 and have also experienced the transmission "rough spot" in this car. I'm a retired automotive steering/suspension engineer, and drivetrain NVH (indeed any NVH) really, really annoys me!!

Yes, there is undoubtedly a drivetrain vibration problem in the IS300h when the engine is operating at low load at about 1200 - 1300 rpm, which corresponds to about 80 - 90 km/hr on an open flat freeway. It is most noticeable in ECO mode where the planetary "CVT" response is designed to be sluggish (on purpose). In Normal or Sports mode the problem is masked somewhat because the rpm advances through the 1200 - 1300 speed range - so you just get a shorter "kick" in the vibration.

As one of the other LOC bloggers say, the vibration resembles a "rumble" or interior "boom" and sounds a bit like driving a manual transmission car in top gear at excessively low revs. As an automotive engineer, my guess is that it is caused a drivetrain vibration resonance, which interacts with a fundamental frequency of the air volume in the passenger compartment. (hence the audible "boom"). I wish I had my old spectral analysis equipment, and then I could tell you the exact frequency!!

Anyway, "Mr Lexus Drivetrain Engineer in Nagoya", you have clearly missed this problem in your exhaustive testing, and there is a number of Lexus IS300h new owners in the world quite annoyed by it. The local Lexus service guys cannot do anything about it. We need an engineering fix, may be a remapping of the drivetrain ECU or changing of the transmission mount spring-rates to eliminate/attenuate the problem.

Yes I have the exact same problem in my 300h, they definitely have to do a recall.

[AussieBee]

This problem which we are all talking about here is not a "manufacturing problem", it is a design problem. There needs to be a recall of all cars back to Job 1, and a rectification implemented. This may include remapping of the transmission ECU, changes to mechanical connection between the transmission case and the chassis (e.g. engine/transmission mounts), or even implementation of anti-noise to cancel the low frequency "boom". Who really knows, but the Toyota/Lexus chassis engineers in Nagoya would certainly be aware of the problem, and are probably working already on a fix for the next model release!!

[gtb5]

This problem which we are all talking about here is not a "manufacturing problem", it is a design problem. There needs to be a recall of all cars back to Job 1, and a rectification implemented. This may include remapping of the transmission ECU, changes to mechanical connection between the transmission case and the chassis (e.g. engine/transmission mounts), or even implementation of anti-noise to cancel the low frequency "boom". Who really knows, but the Toyota/Lexus chassis engineers in Nagoya would certainly be aware of the problem, and are probably working already on a fix for the next model release!!

Yeah just like the recent massive Prius recall, usually the problem has to be not just "irritation" but concerning safety and other more detrimental issues.

[mille]

Now, this has me increasingly worried. Should I cancel my order? Didn't notice any such phenomenon during my several test drives, but I guess it would be there in all cars, right?

PS. John, thanks for excelent description of the problem. Anyone can perhaps make a short clip with the sound of it?

[Platypus]

Hi John and Jimmy,

Welcome to the club!

John, many thanks for that clear explanation of the problem; do you think Lexus engineers or marketing people actually visit this site - I know my dealer doesn't! So far we're considering a letter to Lexus Europe, and the more people I have with the problem, the better they will hear us, I suppose.

We've got two forums going at the moment for the same problem, would it be better to move everything under one roof - any suggestions?

[Platypus]

Now, this has me increasingly worried. Should I cancel my order? Didn't notice any such phenomenon during my several test drives, but I guess it would be there in all cars, right?

PS. John, thanks for excelent description of the problem. Anyone can perhaps make a short clip with the sound of it?

Hi Adrian,

I don't know it's on ALL the cars, just the unfortunate ones - I posted this problem last year and there hadn't been much reaction until now, so I guess most members don't have it. If you want to buy an IS300h and think you'll be doing a lot of driving at between 80 - 100km/h I'd recommend you make darn sure you have a written guarantee from your dealer that he'll replace it immediately if this phenomenon appears.

[mille]

Hi Adrian,

I don't know it's on ALL the cars, just the unfortunate ones - I posted this problem last year and there hadn't been much reaction until now, so I guess most members don't have it. If you want to buy an IS300h and think you'll be doing a lot of driving at between 80 - 100km/h I'd recommend you make darn sure you have a written guarantee from your dealer that he'll replace it immediately if this phenomenon appears.

Hi there,

Thanks for your thoughts! The other John describes this rather eloquently as a design issue, in which case it should be there on all cars, only it occurs in very specific conditions, also, not all dirivers may notice / care about it. The point is I'm very attentive to detail and I will notice for sure and the other sure thing is it would drive me crazy. So there I am. I'm not so much wanting to buy but rather waiting for collection, in 4 weeks time or so, still I guess I can walk away from transaction, but I do want this car... Good point about speaking to the dealer about guarantees.

[TED]

Hi, my name is John (from Sydney, Australia),

I purchased a Lexus IS300h in August 2013 and have also experienced the transmission "rough spot" in this car. I'm a retired automotive steering/suspension engineer, and drivetrain NVH (indeed any NVH) really, really annoys me!!

Yes, there is undoubtedly a drivetrain vibration problem in the IS300h when the engine is operating at low load at about 1200 - 1300 rpm, which corresponds to about 80 - 90 km/hr on an open flat freeway. It is most noticeable in ECO mode where the planetary "CVT" response is designed to be sluggish (on purpose). In Normal or Sports mode the problem is masked somewhat because the rpm advances through the 1200 - 1300 speed range - so you just get a shorter "kick" in the vibration.

As one of the other LOC bloggers say, the vibration resembles a "rumble" or interior "boom" and sounds a bit like driving a manual transmission car in top gear at excessively low revs. As an automotive engineer, my guess is that it is caused a drivetrain vibration resonance, which interacts with a fundamental frequency of the air volume in the passenger compartment. (hence the audible "boom"). I wish I had my old spectral analysis equipment, and then I could tell you the exact frequency!!

Anyway, "Mr Lexus Drivetrain Engineer in Nagoya", you have clearly missed this problem in your exhaustive testing, and there is a number of Lexus IS300h new owners in the world quite annoyed by it. The local Lexus service guys cannot do anything about it. We need an engineering fix, may be a remapping of the drivetrain ECU or changing of the transmission mount spring-rates to eliminate/attenuate the problem.

Yes I have the exact same problem in my 300h, they definitely have to do a recall.

Yes, I have the very same problem too. Looks like it is a design problem that all new IS have. Some drivers will notice, some won't. But before going through the recall process, Lexus engineers have to FIND a solution, and that may take some time. That may not even happen on our Gen 3 Lexus but on the future "release".

As far as I know, it has been reproted an other Toyota/lexus hybrid vehicles.

[DJP]

I've done 5500 miles and never heard a rattle/rumble/vibration or anything else at any speed. As previously posted, there have not been many reports of the problem, and I'm not in anyway trying to diminish the problem being encountered by those that are suffering it. I am reluctant to jump to the conclusion that there should be a mass recall though.

I've tried to replicate it, but with the F Sport I only have a rev dial in Sport and the problems seem to be when in Eco mode, so it's impossible to match the revs and speed accurately.

Mille, why not go back to the dealer and test drive another one aiming at the specific conditions others have reported? Of course that doesn't mean yours wouldn't be affected but might put your mind at rest (or otherwise I suppose).

It does remind me a bit of the 2nd Gen 220d diesel which received quite a hammering on this forum at times, despite many owners reporting trouble free and very happy motoring. These forums do tend to attract those of us that are suffering problems, that's human nature.

I'm not quite sure what I'm trying to achieve here as nothing I can say takes away form the fact that some owners are experiencing something out of the ordinary, but I suspect most of us aren't. Except maybe for the nav/infotainment issues.

[Platypus]

DJP,

I've 17,000km on the clock and can confirm it occurs in all modes: Eco, Normal and Sport. So, if you haven't noticed it then you most likely don't have a lemon. If you would like to check, this should work (you might want to set your measurements to km): on a relatively flat - or very slight uphill - smooth road, when in D take the car up to about 80-85km then ease off - you should be at about 1300rpm. Slowly accelerate and you'll hear a slight rumble from the transmission; ease back to where the rumble was and stay at that speed, then the resonance occurs. Now, let it resonate for a while and then paddle down a gear and it disappears. Of course, I hope the above bears no result!

John,

Maybe you could improve on this "how to" so other members can check their cars. We could put it under a new topic.

[DJP]

Platypus,

Many thanks for the step through. Tried it a couple of times and pleased to say nothing untoward to report. Thanks again though.

[Tel]

No issues either but only drive in D & D-Sport.

Tel