Speaker upgrade wanted

[Rodders_UK]

Can anyone recommend a speaker upgrade for my GS300-2 please, and where to get the stuff in the UK?

Thanks:bounce:

[Rodders_UK]

C'mon guys - someone must know summink!!:bounce:

[Stevie]

I'm surprised nobody has responded yet.

Your best bet is probably to visit the American Lexus site, where they go on at length about Focal and Dynaudio.

I'm currently upgrading my GS300 Mk1 speakers and am using Vifa and Audax components. These are quality components from the actual manufacturers - not some marketing organization. That doesn't help you much, however, as I am designing my own crossovers. I will be posting the information on the Internet when I'm finished - in a couple of months.

Suffice it to say that the stock Lexus speakers are absolute garbage. For another 5 - 10 dollars at cost, they could have installed real quality drivers, which would have put the sound system into a different league. I don't understand how the Japanese corporate purchasing manager thinks.

Stevie

[Zee007]

I've u2u'd you Rodders... :)

[Rodders_UK]

Thanks Zee:tumble:

[DaVitch]

Hi there,

changing the factory speakers in a Lexus is not as simple as it seems. The stock amplifier is not up to the job of powering aftermarket speakers as they provide too much impedance to the AC signal coming from the amp.

It is, however, possible to connect a speaker to RCA converter to the existing wires in the car which will allow installation of a power amplifier.

The signal down the speaker wires is very small, barely a few hundred millivolts, so good quality amplifiers are needed as the input signal will affect the level the amplifier has to work at. A higher level of operation can cause colouration of the sound, anamolies in the signal and lessens the lifespan of poor quality amplifiers.

It is preferable to indstall an aftermarket head unit with an RCA preout to run to the amp, but as yet no fascias are available for any Lexus models and the only way to replace the front is a custom build, so for now the only option is the converter.

Once this converter has been installed and an amplifier wired into place the car will happily accept speakers of quite substantial size into it's factory locations.

The choice of speaker will of course depend on the budget of the customer. :D

Chris

[Rodders_UK]

Thanks Chris - speaker upgrades seem to have been done quite often of GS300s though, without changing the head unit or amp. Surely is you replace the speakers that are there with bigger ones of the same impedance, there won't be a problem?

Standard speakers are only 4inch - that's why they sound so dull - apparently there's room for 5inch or 6inch speakers in the doors if you replace the pods.

What do you think?

[Zee007]

I agree Rod,

I have upgraded speakers in my old Peugeot, and as they were dual cone were very bad at picking up High-pass frequencies and Low-pass frequencies. As soon as I dropped a set of 2-ways in at the front and 3-ways in the back, the quality and output improved dramatically without changing the head unit.

Any joy with the u2u I sent you?

[Rodders_UK]

Thanks Zee and thanks for the U2U. In the end, I found a specialist ICE place in Milton Keynes - the chap there obvioulsy knows a HUGE amount about this stuff. He's gonna take my car in next Wednesday and fit the biggest/best speakers that he can.

He's recommending MB Quartz component speakers/tweeters in the front and Kicker duals in the back doors. I might replace the subby too - we'll decide on the day.

Cheers again for your help mate.

Rod

[Zee007]

mmmmmmmm.....Kickers (good choice).....

No probs mate - any time... :tumble:

[DaVitch]

Originally posted by Rodders_UK

Thanks Chris - speaker upgrades seem to have been done quite often of GS300s though, without changing the head unit or amp. Surely is you replace the speakers that are there with bigger ones of the same impedance, there won't be a problem?

Correct. The amplifier standard in a Lexus will still produce power, but less than it was making into the original speakers. (Assuming that all the speakers are nominally rated at 2 ohms.)

I know that the subs used are 2 ohm units, meaning that their average impedance while playing will be around that mark...changing to a speaker which has a higher average impedance reduces the output of the amplifier.

The reason that some speaker units can work in place of the originals is that they suffer less from improper power matching...that is, they have more excursion and a greater power handling, so do not produce impedance to the amplifier when being pushed hard. The amplifier also has a higher damping factor, lower harmonic distortion level and the output transistors do not produce as much heat, making it somewhat easier on the amp.

Kinda evens things out. ;)

However we have tried higher power speakers and anything of real quality does not fare well due to inadequate power...I am not suer if the amplifier in the IS is the same as a GS though.

In GS300-2 demo car the factory holes are for 6" components up front and 6" coaxials in the rear...where did you see these fours mate? :)

In any case, I just thought I'd comment on your dealers choice of speakers...the MB Quarts (or any speakers for that matter) NEED to be listened to.

Sound quality is a purely subjective thing, which you cannot take anyone's opinion; in the case of the MBs the tweeters are a little sharp and they can be overly bright at volume...especially on axis, and the mids are not as capable for kickbass as most peoples offering for the same money.

The only MBs I personally enjoy is the QSD range but they are not my choice for the money they cost. I think they're around £1000 in this country.

What tweeter you use is crucial to the sound quality of any car as (due to ear canal resonance) the ear is most sensitive to frequencies between 3-4 khz which is where the tweeters begin to play...the wrong tweets will ruin frequency response in the crucial region...make sure you get a listen before you buy.

Chris

[Rodders_UK]

Thanks again for your views Chris - you obviously know a lot about this stuff.

I'm assuming that the spekers will be changed for ones of the same impedance, but bigger diameter - if that's the case, surely the amp will not have any problems?

On my GS300-2, I've actually looked at the speakers, and they do seem to be 4inch. They're mounted in pods and there seems to be plently of room in there if the pods are removed - I think I've read that you can get 6inch speakers in there.

There is a Nakamichi upgrade for the GS3 - perhaps the demo you saw had that fitted, with bigger speakers??

Are you absolutely sure that stock speakers on the stock Pioneer amp on a GS3-2 are 2ohm??? - if that's true - then I agree there may be a problem?

The reason I want to upgrade is that the 4inch speakers sound faily flat and distort at high volumes. I'm looking for a fuller, brighter sound, which I'm hoping I'm going to get from 6inch cones.

Cheers mate

Rod

[DaVitch]

Originally posted by Rodders_UK

Thanks again for your views Chris - you obviously know a lot about this stuff.

I'm assuming that the spekers will be changed for ones of the same impedance, but bigger diameter - if that's the case, surely the amp will not have any problems?

I didn't really make it clear...the amp is designed to put out its power into a load of around 2 ohms per hcannel.

Most car speakers are 4 ohm drivers and their impedance can reach 16 ohms at times, especially when playing low frequencies, which also sap the most power.

Also, the GS demo car is OUR demo car....L3X JG also had a an IS200 whcih we did a few things to...:)

It had 6s as standard, but I think his is a Premium or something....I don't know much about the individual models mate. :?::D

We have also had experience with the LS400, LS430 and RX300 if anyone was wondering.

Back to what you were saying mate...6s will give you around twice the cone area of a 4"...this is definitely needed, especially for the better response at the bottom 4-5 octaves.

A brighter sound will be achieved by changing tweeters, they deal with the high frequency sound...the fuller sound would be down to the material of the midrange cone and it's breakup characteristics during operation; the standard speakers in 99% of cars are very thin paper cones which will eventually wear out.

Whilst it is good for the cones to be paper, they MUST be reinforced so that distortion is not induced when playing at high levels...this is again caused by cone breakup or flexing during heavy excursion. Unfortunately they must also be LIGHT or the transient response (speed and clarity of reproduction) will suffer.

There is nothing else in your audio system that will affect the overall sound as much as the speakers...they are the most important and critical element fo any install. They should be chosen with care.

Assuming you upgrade to a 6" speaker and you are getting components, i would recommend something like Pioneer TSC series components for a budget of £175, Rockford FNX1514s for around £230 or Digital Designs DDWs for around £350.

For rears I would look at a pair of sub or mid bass drivers in a low Q infinite baffle configuration for around £200.

There really is no need to spend much more than that as the Digital Designs speakers can easily match the sound quality of far more expensive speakers...they really are a bargain.

If you want to read about the DDs you should beable to copy and paste this.

www.termpro.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=13&t=000910

They're rather good mate.

I can help if you need to know what speakers would suit your tastes if you like...I have had a listen to most of the stuff out there.

Chris

[Rodders_UK]

Thanks Chris - very helpful stuff.

Cheers

Rod

[DaVitch]

No problem mate.

Nice rubber by the way...

:D:D:D

[L3X JG]

The reason I want to upgrade is that the 4inch speakers sound faily flat and distort at high volumes. I'm looking for a fuller, brighter sound, which I'm hoping I'm going to get from 6inch cones.

Cheers mate

Rod

The best sound from a GS is to turn the volume up only just over 2 thirds of the way any more than this and it sounds sh*t listen to what da vitch has to say and ask him any questions you can and He will most likly have an answer for you.

If you would like to picture him he looks like like one of the sumo guys off the new pepsi add.

He is also head off our tech dept so he will be happy to help any one from team lexus.:D:D:D:D:D

He does sod all allday anyway:lol:

[Rodders_UK]

Thanks!!

Actually I've had my replacement speakers fitted now - and they're fantastic - there's no distortion whatever and the sound is much fuller and purer than it was. I hear stuff of CDs now that I have never heard before.

[Stevie]

So you decided against replacing the sub?

Stevie

[Rodders_UK]

Originally posted by Stevie

So you decided against replacing the sub?

Stevie

Yeah - I asked to guys that did the upgrade to let me know if they reckoned they could improve on the sub by replacing it with another free-air one - they said that they thought it was doing pretty well anyway (and I'm not a particular bass-head) - so we decided it was probably not worth it.:bounce: