Rx400h 'sold Out' For 2005

[DieterML]

Hi,

According to this Sky News report:

http://www.sky.com/skynews/xml/article/0,,...-213918,00.html

The entry level 400h will be circa £33K (some £4K dearer than equivalent current model) and this years allocation (350 cars) is (almost) sold out.

The car will not be exempt from London congestion charge nor will it qualify for a grant under the Gov's powere shift scheme etc. Lexus expects that (up to) 50% of future RX's sold will be "h's". :D

Cheers,

[Lexxy_703]

Blimey! can't say i'd be prepared to pay all that extra for the 'H' from what i've read up to now...

[ColinBarber]

IS300 is about 4k more than the IS200

GS430 was about 4k more than the GS300.

and the 400h sort of compares to the X5 4.4i SE in performance terms and that starts at £48k (£51k if you try and spec it to a SE-L and falls short on quite a few options)

[merco]

Very intersting. I just enquired today and got a written quote with June-July '05 delivery. Shame the £5000 premium over the equivalent RX300 is off putting though.

[ColinBarber]

try another dealer, it may be your dealer has already sold their allocation.

[merco]

Colin Read my post again. Jun- July 2005 delivery is just after the launch. No need to try another Dealer. This one is just fine!!! PS. until my order is in I'm not revealing his location!

[ColinBarber]

Colin Read my post again.  Jun- July 2005 delivery is just after the launch.  No need to try another Dealer.  This one is just fine!!!  PS. until my order is in I'm not revealing his location!

←

I read it as you had a year to wait.

That a good date. I know a lot of dealers have had pre-orders. Maybe they think some won't be taken up due price, the launch delay etc.

[LexusEdinburgh]

The only people who will get cars in June will be those who had orders placed with their dealer and then LGB before a cut off date more than 6 months ago.

At this stage we only know that these early orders will get their cars in June, after that there will more cars but as dealers, we do not know how many or when.

The only way a dealer could offer a car for July is if they have a zero order bank.....and you would have to work really hard to keep your order bank at zero!

[fergy]

And I hear it drops the air suspension you get on the RX300SE-L in order to compensate for weight of batteries etc.

[LexusEdinburgh]

The SE-L does not have air suspension, we have not been told why yet.

The SE-L get ICE (DVD System) instead and all RX400h's get the new VDIM system as standard, I have not tried it yet but I understand it to be the next generation in stability management, it pre-empts a problem rather than reacts to one.

[merco]

Ian. Just goes to show that its worth ringing around to find dealers with few or zero orders if you want to place an order for an RX400h delivery this June.

However I the think the £5000 indicative price premium over the equivalent RX300 and the very average fuel consumpion figures will result in considerable drop out from dealers with wait lists.

The UK fuel consumption figures are Urban 31.4, Extra urban 37.7 and Combined 34.9.

Air suspension is definitely out.

[Lexusjohn]

Ian.  Just goes to show that its worth ringing around to find dealers with few or zero orders if you want to place an order for an RX400h delivery this June.

However I the think the £5000 indicative price premium over the equivalent RX300 and the very average fuel consumpion figures will result in considerable drop out from dealers with wait lists.

The UK fuel consumption figures are Urban 31.4, Extra urban 37.7 and Combined 34.9.

Air suspension is definitely out.

←

I agree with you, there will be cars available, the fuel consumption is an issue and that will put poeple off, the other thing is power delivery, from what i've read the pulling power can't be felt much ( very smooth) and engine revs peak and stay there whilst the gearbox sorts progress. don't think it will feel powerful as the likes of the V8's.

[ColinBarber]

However I the think the £5000 indicative price premium over the equivalent RX300 and the very average fuel consumpion figures will result in considerable drop out from dealers with wait lists.

The UK fuel consumption figures are Urban 31.4, Extra urban 37.7 and Combined 34.9.

←

Not really sure those figures are 'very average' for a 275bhp 4x4. I think they are about, or slightly better than, what people expected.

Remember the figures for the less powerful RX300 are:

Urban: 16.7 mpg, Extra-urban: 30.1 mpg and Combined: 23.2 mpg

[LexusEdinburgh]

.....and you would have to work really hard to keep your order bank at zero!

This was my attempt at sarcasm.......

Let's just take a look at what people might compare this to.

RX300 SE-L vs X5 3.0d SE

Price - RX est. £44k X5 spec'ed up £48k and it still would not have the Power Rear Door, DVD ICE System, ETA on the Nav or a Reversing Camera.

Urban Fuel - RX 31.4mpg X5 23.5, that's 34% better with.......

0-62 - RX 7.6 X5 8.8, 1.2 seconds faster.

So you are telling me that a faster, cleaner, more economical, less expensive, better spec'ed car from a dealer network that is voted by real customers to be the best in the land might be a problem?

[merco]

"This was my attempt at sarcasm......."

Ouch! I didn't think Lexus Dealers did sarcasm. It will take more that a free weekend car wash to get me to buy my RX400h from you now!

A whole raft of issues here, which may mean two posts.

There might be very good reasons why some Lexus dealers have low or no waitlists. If you live in a rural area, city mpg isn't much of an issue. Hence few orders. The point I was making is that if you are desparate to get your hands on one sooner rather than later, there are Lexus Dealers out there who have June/July availability. There is even a London area dealer giving August delivery dates for new orders.

Regarding MPG expectations, Lexus GB's brochure on the RX400h set the expectations high. Quote "RX400h...with the hybrid drivetrain giving stunning performance while delivering BETTER fuel efficiency than MANY COMPACT cars". Its not surprising that 34.9 is now seen as very average against the expectation Lexus set. A lowly 34.9mpg would be poor for most decent Compact cars in this day and age.

[merco]

Continuation

I don't like the BMW X5 and wont be buying one, but the car (like all cars) has some good points, and I don't think the RX400h will beat it in all areas.

Taking your X5 comparison to the Rx400h I'm not sure all your numbers stack up, but I'm not going to do an advert BMW to disprove your point here.

The extra fuel ecconomy of the RX400h is marginal. Just £200 pa for a car doing 10k miles per year. Even in the unlikely event of you doing all 10,000 miles in the city you would still only save £500 pa. Big deal - not.

Regarding faster, we all know that it's not the 0-62 time that matters but how it's delivered in normal driving situations. Most people would'nt notice the difference between the two in everyday driving. If LexusJohn's comments on power deliver are confirmed, it's points to the X5.

Regarding less expensive, most peoiple see beyond the sticker price. Based on your prices and What Car residuals of 65% for the RX300 and 70% for the X5 you would lose 18 grand on the Lexus vs 14 grand on the BMW.

Re your question do you have a problem? Answer quite possibly. This isn't leapfrog, but it might be catch-up?

[ColinBarber]

The statement about economy of a compact sedan has always come from the US where their compacts are bigger than ours and would be for an auto transmission.

Clearly it was never going to have better economy over a UK 1.4 Corolla but it does have better economy over a 1.8 Corolla.

People who are that worried about fuel economy aren't really going to be spending £35k+ on a vehicle in the first place.

Agreed 0-62 times aren't the last word in real-life performance but with the extra torque of the 400h there is no way you wouldn't feel the difference between it and a 300. That is like saying you cannot feel the difference between a GS300 and a GS430. Also the 7.6seconds time is a little conservative, a US car mag. has tested the car for themselves and achieved 6.9seconds.

As for residuals, all these book values only base the prices on standard spec vehicles. That extra £10k you had to spend on the X5d in extras to bring it near to the SE-L spec would nearly all be lost when you trade-in.

[Lexusjohn]

My average mileage is 9500/10000 miles per year, mixed town & country. If my RX300 gives 22MPG and the RX400 gives 30MPG, difference being 121Gals this over 52 weeks is 2.3 gals!!, If I trade my new Rx300 in today I lose 7/8K against the RX4ooh, add a price priemum of say £5000 and well thats just no go, making up the deficate would taking years and years of ownership. I agree with Merco in every day driving little difference in performance will be noticed, and I am not convinced about the economy figures, dragging the net for info on test drives ect, no one but no one, has seen 34.9MPG combined. Food for thought.

[Lexusjohn]

.....and you would have to work really hard to keep your order bank at zero!

This was my attempt at sarcasm.......

Let's just take a look at what people might compare this to.

RX300 SE-L vs X5 3.0d SE

Price - RX est. £44k X5 spec'ed up £48k and it still would not have the Power Rear Door, DVD ICE System, ETA on the Nav or a Reversing Camera.

Urban Fuel - RX 31.4mpg X5 23.5, that's 34% better with.......

0-62 - RX 7.6 X5 8.8, 1.2 seconds faster.

So you are telling me that a faster, cleaner, more economical, less expensive, better spec'ed car from a dealer network that is voted by real customers to be the best in the land might be a problem?

←

:shutit: Sorry to disappoint but my mates X5 deisel is returning 35MPG around town!

[DieterML]

Hi,

I bet it doesn't (X5 diesel that is) unless he/she lives at the top of a hill and lets it roll down etc. and gets it towed back up!!!

The 400h will NOT average 34.9mpg, like the Prius did not average > 60mpg, in 'real' usage. Mpg tests favour hybrid vehicles etc. That's not to say it won't be more economical than the 300.

The 400h gives more power with greater fuel economy (than its predecessor (300)) and that's unusual.

The real question is: is it worth the (your) money? That's down to you folks and it will be interesting to see what percentage of pre-orders are taken up.

Now that the reviews of the new ML are so good and the price(s) appear to be competitive etc. it will soon be make my mind up time! (put my money where my mouth is).

Cheers,

[Lexusjohn]

Hi DieterML, I live in Norfolk so around the town for us is not say around london, I asked my mate today at the golf club exactly what it does running around and he says 33.75 around the houses/ 38.5 on motorway runs under 80MPH!!, as you say the real question is money worth: the new ML with the new diesel V6 looks promising. I wonder if after sales service will be improved along with the car?

[DieterML]

Hi DieterML, I live in Norfolk so around the town for us is not say around london, I asked my mate today at the golf club exactly what it does running around and he says 33.75 around the houses/ 38.5 on motorway runs under 80MPH!!, as you say the real question is money worth: the new ML with the new diesel V6 looks promising. I wonder if after sales service will be improved along with the car?

←

Hi John,

That's still good mpg for such a big beastie :winky: . I once got 37mpg on a trip back from Scotland else its about 28mpg combined (that's with 270 CDi). New V6 diesel quoted @ 30.1 mpg so shouldn't be worse the old 270 (and probably close to 400h? :winky: )

As for Merc Dealers I doubt it (but I've not really had too many problems any way!!). Hopefully new ML will be more reliable than old :D , so point will be moot?

Cheers,

Dieter

[LexusEdinburgh]

"This was my attempt at sarcasm......."

Ouch! I didn't think Lexus Dealers did sarcasm. It will take more that a free weekend car wash to get me to buy my RX400h from you now!

A whole raft of issues here, which may mean two posts.

There might be very good reasons why some Lexus dealers have low or no waitlists. If you live in a rural area, city mpg isn't much of an issue. Hence few orders. The point I was making is that if you are desparate to get your hands on one sooner rather than later, there are Lexus Dealers out there who have June/July availability.  There is even a London area dealer giving August delivery dates for new orders.

Regarding MPG expectations, Lexus GB's brochure on the RX400h set the expectations high.  Quote "RX400h...with the hybrid drivetrain giving stunning performance while delivering BETTER fuel efficiency than MANY COMPACT cars". Its not surprising that 34.9 is now seen as very average against the expectation Lexus set. A lowly 34.9mpg would be poor for most decent Compact cars in this day and age.

←

I am sorry if I upset you, it was not my intention.

Let me re-iterate.

If you have not had an order in the system for at least 6 months, there is no Lexus dealer who can supply you a car in June. All of the June cars are accounted for.

As for delivery after that....it depends on the order bank and subsequent supply to your dealer, larger dealers will naturally get more than smaller dealer. After speaking to many of my friends in the network they all seem to have had a good enquiry rate and are building an order bank for this car. I have not heard of any dealer with zero orders. At the moment we do not know how many or when we get further RX400h’s, so I would advise being wary of anybody ‘promising’ a delivery date.

As for fuel economy, we can all see what it says on paper and I guess we all need to wait and drive it to see what it means in real life to us as individuals but can you really see Toyota not having this right?

[Lexusjohn]

Hi DieterML, I live in Norfolk so around the town for us is not say around london, I asked my mate today at the golf club exactly what it does running around and he says 33.75 around the houses/ 38.5 on motorway runs under 80MPH!!, as you say the real question is money worth: the new ML with the new diesel V6 looks promising. I wonder if after sales service will be improved along with the car?

←

Hi John,

That's still good mpg for such a big beastie :winky: . I once got 37mpg on a trip back from Scotland else its about 28mpg combined (that's with 270 CDi). New V6 diesel quoted @ 30.1 mpg so shouldn't be worse the old 270 (and probably close to 400h? :winky: )

As for Merc Dealers I doubt it (but I've not really had too many problems any way!!). Hopefully new ML will be more reliable than old :D , so point will be moot?

Cheers,

Dieter

←

Hey Dieter, just got back from being out in my mates X5 diesel, No wonder he gets good mileage, he don't drive over 55MPH!!, I'd need to plan my whole day around his jorneys , I feel my RX is prohaps better than I first thought.

[spwolfx]

Continuation

I don't like the BMW X5 and wont be buying one, but the car (like all cars) has some good points, and I don't think the RX400h will beat it in all areas.

Taking your X5 comparison to the Rx400h I'm not sure all your numbers stack up, but I'm not going to do an advert BMW to disprove your point here.

The extra fuel ecconomy of the RX400h is marginal. Just £200 pa for a car doing 10k miles per year. Even in the unlikely event of you doing all 10,000 miles in the city you would still only save £500 pa. Big deal - not.

Regarding faster, we all know that it's not the 0-62 time that matters but how it's delivered in normal driving situations.  Most people would'nt notice the difference between the two in everyday driving.  If LexusJohn's comments on power deliver are confirmed, it's points to the X5.

Regarding less expensive, most peoiple see beyond the sticker price.  Based on your prices and What Car residuals of 65% for the RX300 and 70% for the X5 you would lose 18 grand on the Lexus vs 14 grand on the BMW.

Re your question do you have a problem? Answer quite possibly. This isn't leapfrog, but it might be catch-up?

←

Sorry to intrude, but this post is full of bad info.

Only thing that you will really notice first in RX400h is thremendous power. Every time you hit the pedal, you will notice huge difference.

Its passing times - for example 50-70mph should be 1sec faster than anything else other than 4.8is which is much, much more expensive car...

You should also get significantly better mpg. Now you can claim it will "not" get same mpg as claimed, but does the V6 diesel get same mpg in town as claimed? surely not :-).

It should get some 30% better mpg than RX300, while being much, much faster vehicle... To me, that sounds pretty awesome...

and p.s. it is sooo quiet, even in cold mornings...