Cronic Mpg

[Exiled]

Please don't take this the wrong way FinLex, but why should I have to "really concentrate" to get proper mileage from a car? I want to drive like to always have done - quickly, but smoothly, and without worrying "ooh, did I rev it too much? will it affect my mpg?". THat's just ridiculous.

I'm with you all the way on this JFB2. Does the car come with a warning, " New driving style must be adopted to obtain claimed consumption figures". Somebody mentioned folding in the mirrors and freewheeling downhill, surely that's not part of the new driving style.

On the last two Audi diesels I've had they never seemed to do less than 45mpg knocking about, usually a bit more, and on my annual pilgrimage to the Cote D'Azur which I religiously checked every year (home to home) they returned 51- 53 mpg year after year. One benefit I enjoyed funnily enough over the years was hardly ever having to queue up for fuel, a tankfull seemed to last forever.

Every diesel I've owned has got somewhere near claimed figures. I sympathise with you 220d owners on this and it's not surprising feelings are running high if I were in your position I'd feel just the same. It's bordering on a fraudulent.

[FinLex]

I'm with you all the way on this JFB2. Does the car come with a warning, " New driving style must be adopted to obtain claimed consumption figures". Somebody mentioned folding in the mirrors and freewheeling downhill, surely that's not part of the new driving style.

On the last two Audi diesels I've had they never seemed to do less than 45mpg knocking about, usually a bit more, and on my annual pilgrimage to the Cote D'Azur which I religiously checked every year (home to home) they returned 51- 53 mpg year after year. One benefit I enjoyed funnily enough over the years was hardly ever having to queue up for fuel, a tankfull seemed to last forever.

Every diesel I've owned has got somewhere near claimed figures. I sympathise with you 220d owners on this and it's not surprising feelings are running high if I were in your position I'd feel just the same. It's bordering on a fraudulent.

It seems to be quite common to think that car manufacturers can claim the consumption figures as they please. This, of course, is not the case. The test is carried out by an independent laboratory. That is to say that every single car will obtain the claimed figures, if it is driven in the same fashion as with the test cycle. It could be argued whether or not this test cycle is descriptive of everyday driving, but even so the blame is not on cars not reaching the claimed numbers, it's on the imperfect test. Besides, I for one am getting better-than-claimed mileage from my 220d Sport. Not because my car is more economical than the officially tested one, but because my driving style is nothing like the official test cycle.

[Northern Boys Luv Gravy]

Please don't take this the wrong way FinLex, but why should I have to "really concentrate" to get proper mileage from a car? I want to drive like to always have done - quickly, but smoothly, and without worrying "ooh, did I rev it too much? will it affect my mpg?". THat's just ridiculous.

I'm with you all the way on this JFB2. Does the car come with a warning, " New driving style must be adopted to obtain claimed consumption figures". Somebody mentioned folding in the mirrors and freewheeling downhill, surely that's not part of the new driving style.

On the last two Audi diesels I've had they never seemed to do less than 45mpg knocking about, usually a bit more, and on my annual pilgrimage to the Cote D'Azur which I religiously checked every year (home to home) they returned 51- 53 mpg year after year. One benefit I enjoyed funnily enough over the years was hardly ever having to queue up for fuel, a tankfull seemed to last forever.

Every diesel I've owned has got somewhere near claimed figures. I sympathise with you 220d owners on this and it's not surprising feelings are running high if I were in your position I'd feel just the same. It's bordering on a fraudulent.

I'd agree up to a point. I had 2 A4 diesels and they would average 47 mpg all day long - however, they were 115bhp and 130bhp respectively. I wouldn't expect to get the same mpg out of a 170bhp car - I can't even get those mpg figures out of our 140bhp 2.0Tdi A4.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

I've always complained about poor economy. I am vowing to stop harping on about it now. It won't improve that much - At least not until I change cars. And if that RS4 is affordable in 4 years, then it won't be getting better for many years to come yet!! Most cars (except the 320d/177) are only marginally better/more consistent....

The claimed (govt tests) figures can be matched on the "extra Urban" with a moderate driving style, the average Combined Consumption too can be matched, but I cannot get close to the 35odd MPG for urban. No matter how I drive - engine braking, no engine braking, gentle throttle, never using the brakes (or coasting with plenty of distance and trying not to until I have to stop...). The closest I got was 32mpg being really really careful and not stopping anywhere for more than 60 seconds (red lights), and over a town only journey at night over 8 miles in a london 'burb with zero traffic.....more often than not I get 28 in town (which incidentally is what I got from the IS250 Auto in my hands)!!

As a test comparison, a BMW320i (new shpe) is very close, averaging 30mpg (32 on the Trip computer) with a gentle driving style. If you tried to mimick the test i performed on the Lex, I reckon you could match 32mpg with that 2.0i Petrol engine. I know it's not apples and apples, but there is a point to be made there...

So I hear what everyone says, but I think Petrol engines have improved a lot over the years. As manufacturers have tried to get more and more performance out of diesels, the economy has gone south! On the other hand, Petrol engines of the VVTi type are proving incredible and over the last 2- years have moved on a lot.

I reckon that with Petrol prices the way they are now, and with Diesel being 3-5% more expensive, you really could be better off overall with a Petrol car. Even if not at the pumps, you could be better off with the extra refinement...and in the case oif the new IS, you can have an Auto!

I still maintain that lb for £, the VAG 1.9PDi 130bhp was probably the best diesel engine ever made by anyone. Powerful (enough in most circumstances) and incredibly thrifty. Not the quitest, but not the loudest either...just solidly good, cheap to run, well made (Taxis are running around all over the world with Intergalactic miles on that very engine).

PS - I too have never been terribly loyal to a brand. I just appreciate good design and value for money. On Paper the Lexus ticked the box's, and largely still does. especially as the cold weather = no rattles at all!! YIPEE! Whilst it's had more than it's fair share of dealer visits, it hasn't really missed a single beat mechanically. At 15000+ miles, the gearbox is sweet as a nut, the engine crisp with very low/no oil consumption, and a real world average of 40mpg over the last 5200 miles (over 4500 on the Motorway). Not bad I suppose, though it's 10mpg shy of what I had hoped for! Just need to get used to it!

On balance, do I regret buying the Lexus IS220d? NO! It's still gorgeous looking and keeps me safe...

[Matus]

I still maintain that lb for £, the VAG 1.9PDi 130bhp was probably the best diesel engine ever made by anyone. Powerful

but only until you never looked on the emisions, which are generally 5-10times higher than those on IS220d with 47hhp more...

In general somebody may think, that he hasn't have to worry about some emissions, but....diesels still polute more than petrol cars.

Look at Austria - I think 70% of new cars are diesels and their government decided to decrease max speeds on highway in northern Alps to 90km/h (56mph) - due to emissions.

All, when looking on consumption, you have to take into account three things (except driving style) 1. weight of the car, 2. power of the engine, 3. emissions

1. IS220d is heavy. Why? Because it is full of equipment, it wants to be safe, and it wants to be silent. No way the A4 is silent as IS220d, in terms of engine loudness and aerodynamic loudness. EuroNCAP - Audi A4 4*, IS 5*

2. 177bhp will always take more than 130bhp

3. mentioned many times

I definitely agree with Jamboo regarding the petrol engines - they are getting better amd better and still they are, and will be mode reliable than diesel cars, just because petrol engine is simple, what can't be said about modern turbo (twinturbo) diesels.

The biggest advance of the IS220d over IS250 is the price, where the diesel car is cheaper.

Anyway, I wonder when you people complain about the consumption, because generally said, IS220d is 1 liter over the diesel competition. You bought the car for 30 grand and you complain about 1 pound per 100kms

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Matus - you put it so well... :D

[Exiled]

Please don't take this the wrong way FinLex, but why should I have to "really concentrate" to get proper mileage from a car? I want to drive like to always have done - quickly, but smoothly, and without worrying "ooh, did I rev it too much? will it affect my mpg?". THat's just ridiculous.

I'm with you all the way on this JFB2. Does the car come with a warning, " New driving style must be adopted to obtain claimed consumption figures". Somebody mentioned folding in the mirrors and freewheeling downhill, surely that's not part of the new driving style.

On the last two Audi diesels I've had they never seemed to do less than 45mpg knocking about, usually a bit more, and on my annual pilgrimage to the Cote D'Azur which I religiously checked every year (home to home) they returned 51- 53 mpg year after year. One benefit I enjoyed funnily enough over the years was hardly ever having to queue up for fuel, a tankfull seemed to last forever.

Every diesel I've owned has got somewhere near claimed figures. I sympathise with you 220d owners on this and it's not surprising feelings are running high if I were in your position I'd feel just the same. It's bordering on a fraudulent.

I'd agree up to a point. I had 2 A4 diesels and they would average 47 mpg all day long - however, they were 115bhp and 130bhp respectively. I wouldn't expect to get the same mpg out of a 170bhp car - I can't even get those mpg figures out of our 140bhp 2.0Tdi A4.

I wouldn't expect to get those figures out of a 170bhp either, point I was trying to make was the mpg figures I got from my Audi's did bear some resemblence to those quoted in the handbook, therefore I wasn't disappointed, whereas mpg figures being obtained by the 220d brigade are all over the place and they are, justifiably, not happy.

[Exiled]

I still maintain that lb for £, the VAG 1.9PDi 130bhp was probably the best diesel engine ever made by anyone. Powerful

but only until you never looked on the emisions, which are generally 5-10times higher than those on IS220d with 47hhp more...

In general somebody may think, that he hasn't have to worry about some emissions, but....diesels still polute more than petrol cars.

Look at Austria - I think 70% of new cars are diesels and their government decided to decrease max speeds on highway in northern Alps to 90km/h (56mph) - due to emissions.

All, when looking on consumption, you have to take into account three things (except driving style) 1. weight of the car, 2. power of the engine, 3. emissions

1. IS220d is heavy. Why? Because it is full of equipment, it wants to be safe, and it wants to be silent. No way the A4 is silent as IS220d, in terms of engine loudness and aerodynamic loudness. EuroNCAP - Audi A4 4*, IS 5*

2. 177bhp will always take more than 130bhp

3. mentioned many times

I definitely agree with Jamboo regarding the petrol engines - they are getting better amd better and still they are, and will be mode reliable than diesel cars, just because petrol engine is simple, what can't be said about modern turbo (twinturbo) diesels.

The biggest advance of the IS220d over IS250 is the price, where the diesel car is cheaper.

Anyway, I wonder when you people complain about the consumption, because generally said, IS220d is 1 liter over the diesel competition. You bought the car for 30 grand and you complain about 1 pound per 100kms

The point is, they have bought a product that doesn't do what it says on the box.

[Matus]

so is it all just about the principle?

[FinLex]

The point is, they have bought a product that doesn't do what it says on the box.

The box says what it says, because EU has decided that all car manufacturers have to tell the results of that particular consumption test. It's not the promise of the manufacturer, it is the supposedly comparable figure from the standard test. Which, in real life, is not really that useful when one is trying to choose the car with the best fuel economy.

[Exiled]

so is it all just about the principle?

No, it's all just about being very disappointed.

[VrmmVrmm]

The point is, they have bought a product that doesn't do what it says on the box.

The driver is the most fuel efficient component in the car or as the case may be the most fuel inefficient...anyone who believes that driving style is unimportant is I believe making a fundamental mistake.

I firmly believe if any variable in an equation changes...then...so does the answer.

To make sweeping statements is a little misguided...I'm doing way BETTER than what it says on the box...I'm pleased...not disapointed.

This car is 2200cc over 2000 kg weight and 177bhp...complaints without a full understanding of all the variables is in my view unjust.

I do not agree with the gearing of the car...I could stay forever disagreeing with this variable...I could sell the car...I could never buy diesel again...I could never buy Lexus again...I could be stubborn...I could be misinformed.

OR....I could CHANGE and see is it me that's been at fault all along...IF NOT CHOOSE 1 OF THE ABOVE IMEDIATELY...and get back to driving and ordinary everyday car that appear all around you in their 1000s.

Its like watching B&W television when you're used to colour...persist give it a try...don't give in...there'll only be one victim and it won't be Lexus.

*** loves those who try...good luck everyone!

[Matus]

so is it all just about the principle?

No, it's all just about being very disappointed.

what is your current consumption?

[Exiled]

so is it all just about the principle?

No, it's all just about being very disappointed.

what is your current consumption?

You may have not noticed, but I think you have, Lexus Model: None yet.

Only airing my opinions, I thought that was what this forum was for?

[Matus]

Ok man, but losing 1 pound per 100kms is "very dissappointing" ?

Rattling can be (and it is) dissapointing, but whinging about 1 liter of diesel..sorry...I don't understand.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

The point is, they have bought a product that doesn't do what it says on the box.

This car is 2200cc over 2000 kg weight and 177bhp...complaints without a full understanding of all the variables is in my view unjust.

? IS IT really as heavy as an SUV ?

Kerb weight laden or unladen? I thought it was approx 25kg heavier only than a 320d, which is in at around 1500kg's unladen???

[Matus]

depends on the equipment level but it goes from 1660 till 1710, I think. That just kerb weight. Total weight, fully loaded is over 2000kgs

[VrmmVrmm]

depends on the equipment level but it goes from 1660 till 1710, I think. That just kerb weight. Total weight, fully loaded is over 2000kgs

YES.... I should have been more specific re: weight 2000 kgs...this would be the typical work load...it would be 2075 kgs fully occupied and shopping in the boot and tank full of fuel.

I know its less economic to fill up the tank because you're carrying the extra weight but stopping to put in 4 gallons etc is too much hassle...but thinking about it...it is another fuel saving measure...maybe just maybe...some of our owners/drivers are pretty hefty and this is another contributory factor. (I jest)

Jamboo you said last week you were going to try something like...no cruise...-60 mph...1500 revs...6th gear where possible ie down hill or level (won't work at all on any gradient uphill)

How did you get on?

[Exiled]

The point is, they have bought a product that doesn't do what it says on the box.

This car is 2200cc over 2000 kg weight and 177bhp...complaints without a full understanding of all the variables is in my view unjust.

? IS IT really as heavy as an SUV ?

Kerb weight laden or unladen? I thought it was approx 25kg heavier only than a 320d, which is in at around 1500kg's unladen???

No Jamboo, it really ISN'T as heavy as an SUV.

You probably know this, I'm sure VrmmVrmm does but on the off chance that someone doesn't here are few facts. The Kerb Weight is what the vehicle weighs with the fuel tank 90% full, driver, 68Kgs and luggage, 7Kgs. Tha Maximum Permitted GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight) is what it says, to reach it you probably have to have a big wife, a gaggle of big kids, a big grandma, the big kids bikes on the roof and the boot overflowing with the contents of a French vineyard. A good place to spot one of these is at the weighbridge inbound at Dover around about the end of July, the first clue is the headlights pointing skyward.

The IS220d SE-L has a kerb weight of 1570Kgs and a permitted Gross Vehicle Weight of 2075Kgs.

The Merc C220 CDI manual, kerb weight 1585Kgs, GVW 2070Kgs

The BMW 330 Coupe SE manual, kerb weight 1600Kgs, GVW 2005Kgs.

[Exiled]

The point is, they have bought a product that doesn't do what it says on the box.

This car is 2200cc over 2000 kg weight and 177bhp...complaints without a full understanding of all the variables is in my view unjust.

? IS IT really as heavy as an SUV ?

Kerb weight laden or unladen? I thought it was approx 25kg heavier only than a 320d, which is in at around 1500kg's unladen???

No Jamboo, it really ISN'T as heavy as an SUV.

You probably know this, I'm sure VrmmVrmm does but on the off chance that someone doesn't here are few facts. The Kerb Weight is what the vehicle weighs with the fuel tank 90% full, driver, 68Kgs and luggage, 7Kgs. Tha Maximum Permitted GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight) is what it says, to reach it you probably have to have a big wife, a gaggle of big kids, a big grandma, the big kids bikes on the roof and the boot overflowing with the contents of a French vineyard. A good place to spot one of these is at the weighbridge inbound at Dover around about the end of July, the first clue is the headlights pointing skyward.

The IS220d SE-L has a kerb weight of 1570Kgs and a permitted Gross Vehicle Weight of 2075Kgs.

The Merc C220 CDI manual, kerb weight 1585Kgs, GVW 2070Kgs

The BMW 330 Coupe SE manual, kerb weight 1600Kgs, GVW 2005Kgs.

Apologise, last missive should read, BMW 330d Coupe SE manual

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

The point is, they have bought a product that doesn't do what it says on the box.

This car is 2200cc over 2000 kg weight and 177bhp...complaints without a full understanding of all the variables is in my view unjust.

? IS IT really as heavy as an SUV ?

Kerb weight laden or unladen? I thought it was approx 25kg heavier only than a 320d, which is in at around 1500kg's unladen???

The IS220d SE-L has a kerb weight of 1570Kgs and a permitted Gross Vehicle Weight of 2075Kgs.

The Merc C220 CDI manual, kerb weight 1585Kgs, GVW 2070Kgs

The BMW 330 Coupe SE manual, kerb weight 1600Kgs, GVW 2005Kgs.

Apologise, last missive should read, BMW 330d Coupe SE manual

Aaah...this thread gets better!! I've always ignored the weight of a car, because things like driving style, tyre pressures etc count for more (or so I thought)....

SO when people say "...this Lexus car is so heavy, no wonder the fuel consumption is shyte..." they haven't done their homework? It's 0.27cd, just like (or very similar) to the rest too...so it can't be drag...

It appears from all of this that the IS220d with all the kit on it is 15kg lighter than a Merc that doesn't have even a 6 CD changer? OR 30KG lighter than a Beemer with a bigger engine and 2 fewer doors?

Hmmm... :shutit: Need to see what theoy're economy figures are like...

[FinLex]

Aaah...this thread gets better!! I've always ignored the weight of a car, because things like driving style, tyre pressures etc count for more (or so I thought)....

SO when people say "...this Lexus car is so heavy, no wonder the fuel consumption is shyte..." they haven't done their homework? It's 0.27cd, just like (or very similar) to the rest too...so it can't be drag...

It appears from all of this that the IS220d with all the kit on it is 15kg lighter than a Merc that doesn't have even a 6 CD changer? OR 30KG lighter than a Beemer with a bigger engine and 2 fewer doors?

Hmmm... :shutit:

The German Auto Bild did a group test of Alfa Romeo 159 2.4 JTDM, Audi A4 2.0 TDI (the old model), BMW 320d (the 163bhp version), Lexus IS 220d Sport and Mercedes-Benz C 220 CDI Avantgarde (new model). Alfa was the heaviest (1725 kg), then Lexus (1690 kg), Mercedes (1640 kg), Audi (1540 kg) and BMW (1540 kg). So Lexus is 50 kg heavier than Mercedes and incredible 150 kg heavier than Audi and BMW!

[Matus]

Finlex - true true.

I don't know where are Exiled's numbers, regarding IS220d, from.

1660kgs is from my technical documents to the car (I don't know the correct english word)

[Exiled]

Finlex - true true.

I don't know where are Exiled's numbers, regarding IS220d, from.

1660kgs is from my technical documents to the car (I don't know the correct english word)

As Jamboo says it gets better and better. I wonder if someone could put one on a weighbridge to end the confusion, however if your technical documents say 1660kgs then lets take that as the accurate figure and perhaps end the confusion.

With regard to where I got my numbers from, it was easy for the Merc and the BMW, I have the brochures infront of me. A little more difficult for the Lexus as their brochure gives the kerb weight as 2075kgs, I would say that is an error especially when comparing it to you technical documents saying 1660kgs. Trying to find an accurate kerb weight was a bit more difficult, for the model in question What Car have it as 1570kgs, Autocar also have it as 1570kgs, only figure I could get from Auto Express was for an Auto 250 SE-L which they have as 1600kgs.

For anyone interested there is a comparison test in Auto Express, IS250 against a Merc C200K.

[Matus]

regardfing the MPG

Yesterday my father took my IS so I had to take mums A180cdi (autobox - CVT)

I have 7kms to work, most od the time 70km/h and few stops. I do this trip there and back with the average of approximately 6l/100km (47mpg) on my IS.

With mums car I did 7l/100km (40,3mpg)

Maybe one of the reasons was, that untill the merc warmed up a bit, it hold constantly 2000rpm (while when warm 1500-1700 is enough). Maybe another reason is the electrical heater in the airconditioning system (car fully heats after 1 minute in 0 degrees celsius) which certainly has effect on the consumption.

Anyway, larger, heavier and more powered IS performed better. And this A-class has very very loud engine in the interior.