Paypal Is ***** Take!

[DJ Wozza]

Shame that honest sellers don't get anything other than little wheels to run around in like a mouse......

[VVProtocolVV]

LOL Got this email from paypal today after waiting for 4 days...

"Dear #########,

As you know, we have been reviewing the transaction detailed below. Our

investigation is now complete. This payment has been reversed because the

tracking information provided did not confirm delivery to the sellers

address.

We appreciate your cooperation, this inquiry is closed."

It actually beyond a joke, i've just finished calling royal mail and they said it's not possible to send me a scan of the tracking number, signature AND the address because the code is the address. Now, back in 11-07-08 and 09-08-08, i have already provided the recipt of the sent item which has the date, time, tracking number, location and address of the sent item. On 1st October i sent them the PDF from Royal Mail with tracking number and signature of the buyer. Now they have eveything that is possible to have to proof it is delivered, yet they have turned round and bascially said, we need a form that has ALL the requirements...signature, address and tracking information all on ONE form. BUT they already have everything!! Royal Mail also said that it is a unreasonable request by paypal and they already know what is and not possible, and they are requesting something that is not possible to have. Talk about mission impossible .Over and Out.

[DJ Wozza]

Watchdog. This is a saga that needs to be heard nationwide for E-Bay & Paypal to take notice.

[redz_UK]

can you not reverse the transaction from your bank account to paypal?

[VVProtocolVV]

No, cos paypal has taken back the money, which the buyer has given me and apprantely it's the buyer that has said i have not sent item...but i get the feeling it's paypal who is doing all of this. I contacted paypal to pass me onto the call back centre to find out why they said i have not provided enough info, but as yet not rung me back yet. I have now got so much evidience that paypal is blantely brushing me off with empty promises, even when they say it on teh phone, email it's all bull****. Now i am in no better position than day one. They keep coming up with lame excuses at their end and basically putting me back. Hope someone with a bit of law enforcement power will see this and decide to act on it cos i have done everything i can, gave them all they wanted and yet they come up with bs excuses...everytime!! Heres basically the cycle of what they do...

1) Open the case.

2) Request information via fax

3) Wait 3-5 working days for fax to attach to case.

4) Email replay saying infomation not provided, has not been recieved or not recieved within timeframe.

5) Goto 1.

So bs...

[shake]

post up the address you despatched to. you wouldnt be breaking any rules as its in the publics best interest to know ;)

[Geoffers]

Wozza is right - go public. You have to with all this.

Even if it only highlights their stupidity. You could even go as far as fraudulent concealment of the evidence you have provided.

If you aren't personally successful, hopefully it will urge others to come forward and they won't be able to operate this way. Although they aren't covered by our banking laws or the FSA, they still need their licence to operate and this should be called into question judging by the antics here.

[VVProtocolVV]

They never phoned back that night or today, so much for the call back requested. So today I have resent everything they already have in 3 pages of faxes, page 1 is a brief desciption of what has happened and what will happen if they don't refund me under the sellers protection program as they are fully aware that they have all the information that is needed and i have the backing of Royal Mail. Page 2 is the tracking code and signature of the so called fraudulent buyer and page 3 contains the reciept of the Royal Mail special delivery, which has the date it was sent, postcode of the location of where it has been sent, the post office used, the weight of the item and how much it was covered by if it was lost etc which is the amount paypal owns me for my losses, as a last bid to win this, i know it will get nowhere fast as the next monkey that recives the fax will either bin it, laugh at it or totally ignore it or send me another email that says, "not enough information, not within timeframe" etc , but i have tried again and again to try to get some justice out of this and lets say im fighting a lossing battle as they have full control of the situation.

Shake - as much as i would like to post up his address, i think it is paypal who is allowing this to happen and they are as corrupt themselves, i wouldn't be surprised if it is a inside job, done by paypal themselves, cos it really does seem like it as they would rather refund the fraudulent buyer than refund me, even when i have provided all the evidence before them and should be fully covered by their bs sellers protection program.

Like you guys say unless a large amount of people can get together with their cases and take it up in court, i am nothing but a grain of sand on a beach of what is so called paypal. As much as i would like to carry on, i really have done everything i can, at least 4 times over for what most people would put up with over the 3 months! So until there is someone with a bit of power to convince the court to do something about paypal and their antics, im am powerless. I have spent so much time and phone call time to this cause that it is mounting to a reasonably large amount. I will have to maybe re think another way for this to go in the future, or give up until i can be called upon when a case can be brought up. I will see how this goes within the next week or so, but i really don't expect anything now at all. Don't let me meet someone who works for paypal cos tbh u won't know what will hit you.

[DJ Wozza]

I still say Watchdog mate, please don't let this red tape circular nonsense

"fax this, send that, duplicate this, wait 4 days, stand on one leg, mothers maiden name" bs put you off.

You have collected all the documents any sensible system would require, and sent them as ordered.

You have done all any repectable organization would expect you to do.

Expose the payment protection programme & Paypal for exactly what it is......

Time for Watchdog !!

[ibby]

Its paypals way of warying the customer thin ...

So you give up

[Geoffers]

If you are going to give up, at least point them at this thread. You might get someone with a midges digi of a conscience.

Also, http://www.nopaypal.co.uk/

They are listing all issues and want to hear from people. Nothing may come of it but you never know.

Has the usual links to paypalsucks.com, aboutpaypal.org, etc.

There might be some useful info there?

[Steve ( West Mids )]

I'd reasthis and associated stuff from google and put in a Small Claim for what you lost plus other costs, supply copies of all evidence and sit back and wait ....... you can do it yourself, it won't cost a fortune and you don't need a solicitor .........

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/consumer/arti...mp;in_page_id=5

[eXOBeX]

Watchdog. Or report the "buyer" to the police for fraud.

[DJ Wozza]

c'mon contact Watchdog and be the one to make a difference, be the Bosman of Paypal

[VVProtocolVV]

Well, time for an update. After the last email from paypal, i said i was going to do what i can left, so i asked them to open a what they call a "service request", where upon my case will be looked at with all the details they have in front of them rather than the BS i've had for the last 2 months saying i haven't provided the details. Although the mails i've got from before all said the case is closed, you can by right re-open them IF they are not settled, which in my case is definltely not! So after a few more emails and calls to paypal with the same BS they give, i finally had a break through after reading the website posted by Geoffers (cheers bud). Got reading into what i should do when paypal refuses to payup even when all the evidence is there before them to show i should have been protected by their so called "sellers protection program". So in reply to paypal with this :-

"But i did send the fax within the time frame that was asked on the 10th July :-

10-07-08 - Paypal sends mail to ask me to fax the proof of delivery to them.

11-07-08 - Faxed Royal Mail delivery reciept to paypal together with case number and my user ID etc. Also asked for them to confirm this.

14-07-08 - Mail from paypal to confirm they have the tracking number and are still investigating the case.

I personally phoned up on the 10-7-08 to asked what information was needed and they told me that i only needed to fax the reciept of the postage, they never asked about the signature of the buyer! Further more the signature was tied to the tracking number which i had fax to you, which is available online at the time, if you'd have checked. Also on the 11-07-08 i phoned up again if any other information was needed and was told the reciept is all that was required, but they told me it will take roughly 2 days before they can confirm that they have the fax and a further 3-5 working days for it to be attached to the case and looked at. on the 14-7-08 I got an email to wait for 10 days, if i was sent an email to wait for 10 days then obviously i am to wait for that length of time. Even with that aside overall i can still provided you with all the necessary details and IS within the buyer sellers program, if i was asked by the paypal representative that a signature was needed then i would be happy to provide it, but like i said before i was not asked as they said the tracking number is sufficient. It doesn't change the fact i can proof it was sent at the time. I should not be held responsible for false information given to me by the paypal person i was speaking to, nor the lost of the faxes i have sent to paypal. I was also told a dispute can be re-opened at any time and information can be provided, which i have done for the 3rd time, so why are you refusing me refund due to an error on your side and ignoring the new information in this NEWLY re opened case?

So this will have to move to the next stage as it clearly seems like even when i have all the proof that the item was sent, i am still not covered by the sellers protection program, due to the the mis guided requested for the information. If you can look over the case i have said many times i was getting different answers everytime i phone up and empty promises for a call back. So you won't take this into account when it was clearly i was being held back again and again by error on your behalf?"

To which i got this reply :-

Dear ************,

Thanks for contacting PayPal in relation to the transaction that has been

reversed. I appreciate the opportunity to assist you with your questions.

Mr ********, firstly, I do apologise for the inconvenience and I regret that

you had this experience.

Mr *********, I realise that this is not the outcome you would have wished for

and I know it may not meet with your approval but I do hope you will

understand that this decision was made in accordance with our company

policy. While I cannot change this as an agent I can help you make a formal

objection if you so wish.

Please let me know if you need further assistance.

So bascially i had no choice but to get their attention :-

"Hi,

A formal objection is what i think is needed as i have said before, the sellers policy requires that all the information can be provided which proofs that the item has been delivered, which i have at hand and has been sent to paypal via fax and attachment 4 times. As i understand a case like this can be re-opened as it has done on the 28-07-08 even after the payment has been reversed back to me. If i can provide all the information which shows that the item has been sent, then why is this not fall within the guidelines of the sellers protection program? Also as i have mentioned i have phoned on many occasions to paypal to ask what i needed to fax to put me in the under the sellers protection program and i was told that only the recipt was needed (which included the tracking number, date it was sent and address it was sent to). The tracking number is tired to the signature of the buyer, which i have sent. I have been told not to worry as i was definitely be protected under the sellers protection program, and yet im getting replies saying i didn't send the information within timeframe? But i have sent everything i was told to by the paypal represenative on more than 2 occasions. Not only a formal objection is needed, the trading standard needs to be involved in this as clearly i have all the proof that is needed to show i have sent the item to the liable address, yet you at paypal are saying i don't fall within the policy. Why should i lose out because you at paypal approved the fraudulant buyer in the first place with an account at paypal? I think the best way to deal with this will be for me to contact the police about the fraudulant user and settle this in a small claims court, but as paypal has been the middle of all this a paypal representative will be needed in court. Ofcourse the trading standard will be informed for the hearing and this should be published in the business section of a national newspaper like News Of The World or Independant about how people like myself has not been protected under your sellers protection program, even when all the evidence can be brought up and has been done over the 3 months.

Thanks"

Over dramatic? No, not really if you was in my position and was cheated out of hundreds of pounds and lost your item, you would do whatever it takes to get it done. As i have said before its not about the money, but the justice of it all. The innocent should NOT be punished! I really hope noone has to go through what i had to over the 3 months, with loads of phone calls to paypal and getting empty promises of a refund, they are such a faceless company that really can get away with alot if they so desired to. But the mail must had some affect as i finally got this on the 20th Oct:-

"After reviewing the claim again, we have issued a refund in your favour.

Please allow 5 business days for any adjustment.

Thank you for your patience and co-operation regarding this matter."

Result i thought, but im not going to believe them just because of the email as i have been told i would get a refund 3 months ago and was still getting emails from paypal saying im not. So waited the 5 days....6 days past, 7 days past...8.. Something not right, so a call to paypal and was told that they are in the process of the refund and will take 72 hours to make the arrangements. I took this with a pinch of salt so to speak. Finally 31th Oct i got my refund in my paypal!!! 3 bloody months to get justice!!! Just in time for Halloween and not just that i have exactly 666 emails in my inbox! Anyway, yes i suppose theres a happy ending after all. Maybe you can tell this story to your sons and daughters as a bedtime story or something. Anyway thanks for the moral support and the guidance everyone and thanks for reading my post...and drink your tea its getting cold!

[DJ Wozza]

Mate that is terrific news !!! Well done you for sticking to your principals :D

[Steve ( West Mids )]

Good news, have you pulled the money from paypal so they can't snatch it back?

[VVProtocolVV]

Cheers wozza! Steve, not yet as i know it makes no difference as 3 months ago when i got the refund and transfered it to my bank, paypal re-opened the case and deducted it from my paypal account, putting it in the minus. I might sound a bit paranoid or negative, but i went through alot of hassle and have now seen it for myself what paypal can do. Alot of you are probably thinking why I don't i just transfer all the asset to my bank and close my account? Well because i do quite a bit of trading (buying and selling) on eBay and even if i did close my account, i know for a fact paypal still keeps the details of your bank account etc on file (yes they do) and if they so decided to re-open the case again for whatever stupid reason they have up their sleeve they will either deducted out of my bank or sent me a letter saying i own them x amount. It's just that i wish there was an alternative to paypal that eBay uses. It's almost like a monopoly where we have no other choice but to use paypal when doing eBay. Thinking about it, microsoft got sued for having whole of the market against apple, why isn't there an alternatives to paypal, so they will have to fight for their customers and treat us with a bit more respect. I signed up for "google checkout" a while ago, but it seems like noone is using them. Paypal should re write their sellers protection program and they should also take into account of the positive feedbacks the user has in eBay and other related factors before deciding on the outcome, rather than their robotic approach they have at the moment. At the moment, buyers have so much advantage over sellers, thats why alot of scammers are cashing in on the act.

[sparkystav]

Well done mate, glad you got the cash back.

Now you need to shut your paypal account and cancel the direct debit from your bank.

Then leave it a month or so and open up a brand new account.

Stav