Windscreen Update

[Pete Shawn]

Hi Everyone,

I've Y reg is200 sport and there's a chip on the middle of the windscreen which always worries me one day it turn to a big crack while driving on the motorways although it has been repair once since i notice the paste kinda falling off due to cold winter time.

what advised or tips anyone can share here with me so, i know what to do or go when things gone bad

one thing i know is that Pilkington windscreen is a no no :arrrggg-matey:

all are welcome to share

many thanks

[is200 Newbie]

I had AA insurance cover on my car and had the screen replaced a few months ago by them as a chip turned to a 7 inch crack on the way to work one day.

It took them 3 goes to replace the screen - the first go was a Pilkington screen which had a warp in the glass that the engineer could not see??? (guess he did not want to replace it) - i complained about it and they came out the same week to renew the glass with a Lexus screen which i insisted on which took me a couple of long phone calls through the insurer to organise. It was not easy. Anyway, they came to fit that and the engineer could not seat the rear view mirror properly - the clip on the screen broke while he was fitting it!!

A bit fed up now and the following week - 3rd screen later he replaced the Lexus one with a Shatterproof make one - i had all 3 replaced and it rained thereafter on each and they didnt have leaks on any of them.

I had initially asked the engineer on the first install to put a bit more sealant around the screen around the wires for the heating element after hearing that there could be a problem there.

He showed me what was involved when he had the screen off and to be honest for the screen to leak then it really needs to be a bad install - if getting your screen replaced ask the engineer to let you know when he has the bad one out and show him where to add the extra sealant which is around the heating wires, bottom right on screen but if its a competent installer then i should not imagine there would be a problem. Monitor the footwell for water after the job has been done - i did this for a few weeks after and no wet/damp patches.

The initial installs were a pain but have had no issue with this screen. Needed to pay the £60 excess though and it does not affect your no claims.

[Pete Shawn]

I had AA insurance cover on my car and had the screen replaced a few months ago by them as a chip turned to a 7 inch crack on the way to work one day.

It took them 3 goes to replace the screen - the first go was a Pilkington screen which had a warp in the glass that the engineer could not see??? (guess he did not want to replace it) - i complained about it and they came out the same week to renew the glass with a Lexus screen which i insisted on which took me a couple of long phone calls through the insurer to organise. It was not easy. Anyway, they came to fit that and the engineer could not seat the rear view mirror properly - the clip on the screen broke while he was fitting it!!

A bit fed up now and the following week - 3rd screen later he replaced the Lexus one with a Shatterproof make one - i had all 3 replaced and it rained thereafter on each and they didnt have leaks on any of them.

I had initially asked the engineer on the first install to put a bit more sealant around the screen around the wires for the heating element after hearing that there could be a problem there.

He showed me what was involved when he had the screen off and to be honest for the screen to leak then it really needs to be a bad install - if getting your screen replaced ask the engineer to let you know when he has the bad one out and show him where to add the extra sealant which is around the heating wires, bottom right on screen but if its a competent installer then i should not imagine there would be a problem. Monitor the footwell for water after the job has been done - i did this for a few weeks after and no wet/damp patches.

The initial installs were a pain but have had no issue with this screen. Needed to pay the £60 excess though and it does not affect your no claims.

wow, thanks for sharing the experience. never though replacing windscreen was such a long process ...

i haven't check which windscreen cover company i was on (tesco insurance)... i'll be sure remember which windscreen to choose.

not sure anyone ever had their windscreen replace by the main dealer... i bet it's gonna cost more then £60 excess on AA cover ( know it's silly thing to say ) but just really wanted to know more

thanks again

[matt-c]

I'm a windscreen fitter by trade, and have been for 8 years - done quite a few IS200's in my time too ;)

Firstly, the chip. Once a chip is repaired, it cannot be repaired again. When a chip is repaired, it's injected with a resin that fills the crater and the cracks, and then cured using a UV light. At the curing point, before the UV is situated over the top, we use a mylar patch with something called "pit fill" on it (it's a gel like liquid; dab a drop of it on the mylar, then lay it over the chip which is full of resin. The reason for this is to keep the resin inside the chip (so it doesn't leak out while still wet; it takes 3 mins to cure under UV), and also, the pit fill creates a "proud" surface over the chip. When the mylar patch is pulled off, the resin inside the chip is cured and hard, and the pit fill has gone hard also, leaving a square of it on the surface of the glass. We then cut this back with a single edge razor blade, and reduce it down to be completely flush with the glass - all the pit fill that's spread out on the surface of the glass is removed, and all that's left is the area of the chips crater (looks like a dry water-spot mark).

Now, over time, and sunlight exposure, the pit fill can shrink slightly, and warp, allowing you to feel it on/in the screen. In rare occasions it can fall out - although this is very rare as the two liquids (the resin and the pit fill) bond together, and the resin cannot fall out of the chip (despite what anyone tells you). This isn't a problem, as the resin has done it's job inside the chip. As said, the chip cannot be re-repaired once done, but you can have the area of the chip re-pit filled if it has shrunk and/or warped - new pit fill is applied, cured, then cut back flush.

Onto replacement screens; there's no reason any single brand of screen is a "no-no". Pilkington are the leading brand of replacement windscreen, but they do suffer the occasional QC problems, just as any other manufacturer, and dealer part screens suffer from this also. Why? Dealer part screens are made by the same companies as replacement company screens - same factory, same glass liquid, same laminate, same everything. Difference is, dealer designated screens are printed with the dealer logo and not the manufacturer logo, and replacement company designated screens aren't. Some cars have both - most BMW's for example with have the BMW logo on it, and under it a smaller Saint Gobain logo. On the replacement designated screens there is no BMW logo, and the Saint Gobain logo is larger.

Also, many screens brands are sub brands - just like there are hundreds of companies that "make" LCD TV's, only Sony and Samsung actually make LCD screens; like wise, there are a load of windscreen brands; Pilkington, Shatterprufe, Safevue, Armourplate, etc, but only three main windscreen manufacturing companies.

Onto the act of replacing a screen - it's not as simple as you'd think (nothing ever is!) The general process is the same for nearly all cars, the differences are in how things come apart and go back together, along with a few manufacturer/model specific things you need to look for (things you learn by fitting, as to the best way to do something based on a particular car - for example, the Range Rover (Vogue and Sport) have heated screens, and are prone to leaking from the heater terminals (which are located at two points on each side of the screen), the foil straps of which heat up when in use and can dry the primer used in the bonding process, which can lead to separation of the bond around the heater terminals, causing windnoise or leaking. The cure for this is once the screen is fitted, a thin line of bond is applied directly to the edge of the screen (the screen sits on the glue and has a few mm gap between the glass and the metal aperture - it's this gap, around the heater terminals that is filled) and smoothed in. This encases the heater terminals, stopping any windnoise or leaking due to the heat from the foil straps.

Anyway, an IS200 screen is, in comparrison to other screens, a pretty easy job. There should be no reason the heater straps on the IS would cause leaking as they are at the bottom of the screen - and although water does indeed run down the outside of the screen, and under the scuttle panel, it doesn't do a 180, run up the leading edge of the screen, through a gap in the glue, then immediately do another 180 and run down the inside of the bulkhead ;) Leaking is down to poor fitting, bad condition car (such as rust or overly worn parts) and in some cases, poor design of a car (example, Range Rover (Pegasus model) has a design flaw that lets the water collect at the top of the outer A-Post trims, which then runs and sits on the door seal in the top corner, which over time has aged, and lets is leak into the car. Also, Rover 200, old, square shape, have push fit clips under their outer A-post trims, and water collects under the trims, finds the holes the push clips fit into and drips inside the vehicle)

You cannot choose which windscreen is supplied - it is what it is, and is whats in stock. Having worked for all the major windscreen replacement companies over the years, we all use the same glass and same suppliers. As said, what brand logo is on the glass really has no bearing on it being a good or bad fit (in the exception of Armorplate door glasses for BMW E36 3 series' - there was a change over from 5mm for 4mm glass, but for some reason the Armorplate stamped glass comes up as 5mm all round, which is too tight in the rubbers on the cars that should have 4mm glass)

Any decent windscreen fitter will always put more bond on an area of the screen that needs it - be it a car with heater terminals, such as a focus, mondeo, or Range Rover, RX/IS/etc Lexus, Toyota's, etc etc, because of the heat from the ones that use the foil straps (as opposed to soldered wires, such as early Focus' (mk1) or early (mk1/2) Mondeo's)

General practice for replacing an IS screen is to strip off the wipers and scuttle panel (and rubber corner pieces), remove the screen trim (which is what's called a goalpost trim, because it is shaped like a goalpost; same as a Yaris or Avensis for example), then cut the screen out. Cut the glue back (not to bare metal, but leave a very thin, ~1mm, layer of original glue, and clean the aperture. Clean and prime the glass, prime any area of the aperture that may have bare metal or exposed paint, and apply two layers of this primer to any area that has visible rust. allow to dry for 2 mins, while fitting a new trim to the screen (you can sometimes use the original trim, if done on a very hot day when the trim is soft, which allows it to be removed without distorting. Generally a new one is used in most applications, but sometimes if a trim comes out really nicely, I'll reuse it because it can give a better looking fit. The trim isn't a water seal, despite what people say, but is there to hide the edge of the glass and the edge of the car. Look at newer cars - many many have what's called "floating" glass, where they have no trim at all, just a thin gap between the glass and the car metal, giving the effect it's floating. Anyway, then the aperture is glued, the screen lifted in and positioned, taped up (to hold position), the heater terminal connected, and scuttle and wipers refitted.

The only problem with an IS, isn't actually a problem, but fitter error; the mirror is a twist on (the new screen comes with the boss preinstalled, and the mirror twisted off it, and onto the new one) - the mirror only twists one way, unlike a BMW for example, which can twist either way. The error is if the fitter doesn't know which way that is. I've been guilty of twisting them the wrong way and damaging the mirror on a few IS' in my time. They aren't done often, and the sheer amount of cars us fitters work on, it's impossible to remember everything! I think, off the top of my head, to remove it, it twists off to the right, and twists to the left to refit, but even I'm not 100% sure on that, as it's been probably getting on for 2 years since I did one. However, it's easy to tell by just looking at the boss on the new screen and looking at the directions of the grooves. So wobbly mirrors are generally fitter errors. THAT BEING SAID, the metal tabs on the mirrors aren't the strongest ever, and can/will deform slightly when removing and refitting; more so if it's been on and off before, so any time a mirror is removed and refitted it's never 100% as tight as it was (same can be said for more modern Audi mirrors that have a rain sensor in the middle of their mounting point)

Lastly, main dealer replacements - main dealers do not do bonded glass replacements. Any glass that needs to be bonded is subbed out to replacement companies. Main dealers do not have the equipment for replacing bonded screens, their staff aren't trained to, and also, the replacement companies give warranties to glass they fit, so the dealer is covered if anything goes wrong (such as a leak). Excess is excess, regardless of what company does the work and what glass you have fitted. Your glass excess is £60, so you pay £60 for the small triangle window in the read door, and you pay £60 for the front screen, or rear screen, or sunroof, or door glass. If you have the AA do the work, or Autoglass. Only occasionally do you have to pay more for another company to do the work, and that's down to the insurance companies "approved" list. For example, Direct Line only direct bill with Autoglass, and as a result the excess if £60. If you refuse to have Autoglass do the work, and demand the AA do it, your excess might be £140, because the AA isn't on the direct bill approved list. Likewise, Saga only direct bill with the AA; you can book Autoglass to do the work, but you'd have to pay in full and then reclaim from Saga, but you'll end up paying more than Saga's £75 excess.

[Pete Shawn]

I'm a windscreen fitter by trade, and have been for 8 years - done quite a few IS200's in my time too ;)

Firstly, the chip. Once a chip is repaired, it cannot be repaired again. When a chip is repaired, it's injected with a resin that fills the crater and the cracks, and then cured using a UV light. At the curing point, before the UV is situated over the top, we use a mylar patch with something called "pit fill" on it (it's a gel like liquid; dab a drop of it on the mylar, then lay it over the chip which is full of resin. The reason for this is to keep the resin inside the chip (so it doesn't leak out while still wet; it takes 3 mins to cure under UV), and also, the pit fill creates a "proud" surface over the chip. When the mylar patch is pulled off, the resin inside the chip is cured and hard, and the pit fill has gone hard also, leaving a square of it on the surface of the glass. We then cut this back with a single edge razor blade, and reduce it down to be completely flush with the glass - all the pit fill that's spread out on the surface of the glass is removed, and all that's left is the area of the chips crater (looks like a dry water-spot mark).

Now, over time, and sunlight exposure, the pit fill can shrink slightly, and warp, allowing you to feel it on/in the screen. In rare occasions it can fall out - although this is very rare as the two liquids (the resin and the pit fill) bond together, and the resin cannot fall out of the chip (despite what anyone tells you). This isn't a problem, as the resin has done it's job inside the chip. As said, the chip cannot be re-repaired once done, but you can have the area of the chip re-pit filled if it has shrunk and/or warped - new pit fill is applied, cured, then cut back flush.

Onto replacement screens; there's no reason any single brand of screen is a "no-no". Pilkington are the leading brand of replacement windscreen, but they do suffer the occasional QC problems, just as any other manufacturer, and dealer part screens suffer from this also. Why? Dealer part screens are made by the same companies as replacement company screens - same factory, same glass liquid, same laminate, same everything. Difference is, dealer designated screens are printed with the dealer logo and not the manufacturer logo, and replacement company designated screens aren't. Some cars have both - most BMW's for example with have the BMW logo on it, and under it a smaller Saint Gobain logo. On the replacement designated screens there is no BMW logo, and the Saint Gobain logo is larger.

Also, many screens brands are sub brands - just like there are hundreds of companies that "make" LCD TV's, only Sony and Samsung actually make LCD screens; like wise, there are a load of windscreen brands; Pilkington, Shatterprufe, Safevue, Armourplate, etc, but only three main windscreen manufacturing companies.

Onto the act of replacing a screen - it's not as simple as you'd think (nothing ever is!) The general process is the same for nearly all cars, the differences are in how things come apart and go back together, along with a few manufacturer/model specific things you need to look for (things you learn by fitting, as to the best way to do something based on a particular car - for example, the Range Rover (Vogue and Sport) have heated screens, and are prone to leaking from the heater terminals (which are located at two points on each side of the screen), the foil straps of which heat up when in use and can dry the primer used in the bonding process, which can lead to separation of the bond around the heater terminals, causing windnoise or leaking. The cure for this is once the screen is fitted, a thin line of bond is applied directly to the edge of the screen (the screen sits on the glue and has a few mm gap between the glass and the metal aperture - it's this gap, around the heater terminals that is filled) and smoothed in. This encases the heater terminals, stopping any windnoise or leaking due to the heat from the foil straps.

Anyway, an IS200 screen is, in comparrison to other screens, a pretty easy job. There should be no reason the heater straps on the IS would cause leaking as they are at the bottom of the screen - and although water does indeed run down the outside of the screen, and under the scuttle panel, it doesn't do a 180, run up the leading edge of the screen, through a gap in the glue, then immediately do another 180 and run down the inside of the bulkhead ;) Leaking is down to poor fitting, bad condition car (such as rust or overly worn parts) and in some cases, poor design of a car (example, Range Rover (Pegasus model) has a design flaw that lets the water collect at the top of the outer A-Post trims, which then runs and sits on the door seal in the top corner, which over time has aged, and lets is leak into the car. Also, Rover 200, old, square shape, have push fit clips under their outer A-post trims, and water collects under the trims, finds the holes the push clips fit into and drips inside the vehicle)

You cannot choose which windscreen is supplied - it is what it is, and is whats in stock. Having worked for all the major windscreen replacement companies over the years, we all use the same glass and same suppliers. As said, what brand logo is on the glass really has no bearing on it being a good or bad fit (in the exception of Armorplate door glasses for BMW E36 3 series' - there was a change over from 5mm for 4mm glass, but for some reason the Armorplate stamped glass comes up as 5mm all round, which is too tight in the rubbers on the cars that should have 4mm glass)

Any decent windscreen fitter will always put more bond on an area of the screen that needs it - be it a car with heater terminals, such as a focus, mondeo, or Range Rover, RX/IS/etc Lexus, Toyota's, etc etc, because of the heat from the ones that use the foil straps (as opposed to soldered wires, such as early Focus' (mk1) or early (mk1/2) Mondeo's)

General practice for replacing an IS screen is to strip off the wipers and scuttle panel (and rubber corner pieces), remove the screen trim (which is what's called a goalpost trim, because it is shaped like a goalpost; same as a Yaris or Avensis for example), then cut the screen out. Cut the glue back (not to bare metal, but leave a very thin, ~1mm, layer of original glue, and clean the aperture. Clean and prime the glass, prime any area of the aperture that may have bare metal or exposed paint, and apply two layers of this primer to any area that has visible rust. allow to dry for 2 mins, while fitting a new trim to the screen (you can sometimes use the original trim, if done on a very hot day when the trim is soft, which allows it to be removed without distorting. Generally a new one is used in most applications, but sometimes if a trim comes out really nicely, I'll reuse it because it can give a better looking fit. The trim isn't a water seal, despite what people say, but is there to hide the edge of the glass and the edge of the car. Look at newer cars - many many have what's called "floating" glass, where they have no trim at all, just a thin gap between the glass and the car metal, giving the effect it's floating. Anyway, then the aperture is glued, the screen lifted in and positioned, taped up (to hold position), the heater terminal connected, and scuttle and wipers refitted.

The only problem with an IS, isn't actually a problem, but fitter error; the mirror is a twist on (the new screen comes with the boss preinstalled, and the mirror twisted off it, and onto the new one) - the mirror only twists one way, unlike a BMW for example, which can twist either way. The error is if the fitter doesn't know which way that is. I've been guilty of twisting them the wrong way and damaging the mirror on a few IS' in my time. They aren't done often, and the sheer amount of cars us fitters work on, it's impossible to remember everything! I think, off the top of my head, to remove it, it twists off to the right, and twists to the left to refit, but even I'm not 100% sure on that, as it's been probably getting on for 2 years since I did one. However, it's easy to tell by just looking at the boss on the new screen and looking at the directions of the grooves. So wobbly mirrors are generally fitter errors. THAT BEING SAID, the metal tabs on the mirrors aren't the strongest ever, and can/will deform slightly when removing and refitting; more so if it's been on and off before, so any time a mirror is removed and refitted it's never 100% as tight as it was (same can be said for more modern Audi mirrors that have a rain sensor in the middle of their mounting point)

Lastly, main dealer replacements - main dealers do not do bonded glass replacements. Any glass that needs to be bonded is subbed out to replacement companies. Main dealers do not have the equipment for replacing bonded screens, their staff aren't trained to, and also, the replacement companies give warranties to glass they fit, so the dealer is covered if anything goes wrong (such as a leak). Excess is excess, regardless of what company does the work and what glass you have fitted. Your glass excess is £60, so you pay £60 for the small triangle window in the read door, and you pay £60 for the front screen, or rear screen, or sunroof, or door glass. If you have the AA do the work, or Autoglass. Only occasionally do you have to pay more for another company to do the work, and that's down to the insurance companies "approved" list. For example, Direct Line only direct bill with Autoglass, and as a result the excess if £60. If you refuse to have Autoglass do the work, and demand the AA do it, your excess might be £140, because the AA isn't on the direct bill approved list. Likewise, Saga only direct bill with the AA; you can book Autoglass to do the work, but you'd have to pay in full and then reclaim from Saga, but you'll end up paying more than Saga's £75 excess.

well spoke Matt... very kind of u sharing all this to us

thanks