Need Advice - Parking Wardens And Private Car Parks

[petayV8]

I work at Sainsbury's part time. I park in there car park which is privately owned by Excel Parking. I recived a code 24 fee for not parking with the lines provided!! I park right at the back in a very sparse part of the car park next to a bush. So i park over 2 spaces. My last car recieved dents, dings and scratches from trolly's, cars and those car washing carts. It was only a ford focus and it was in bad shape anyway so didnt really care, but theres no chance im letting my pride and joy subject that! I also have a parking permit in the window saying i work at sainsbury's. The security guard told me he even parks in the child bays because sainsburys and excel parking refuse to take responsibility for anyones vehicles.

Anyway im they want £100 fine, emailed them telling them im not paying and my reasons for it. What do you think they will say?

[The-Acre]

I remember watching a TV programme some weeks ago about the parking tickets issued across the country and the way people are fighting back in various ways (as I'm in the process of doing) But what I remember clearly was the presenter saying that although the tickets issued in private car parks (in other words, anywhere other than a public road) look official they're not. And as far as I know they have no legal ground for making you pay. They just hope you will pay because the tickets look like official parking tickets.

Phil

[dave1]

Is the car park actually OWNED by excel or are they the company managing the car park for Sainsbury? My understanding is that you should not give any info to them as it is the driver not the owner/registered keeper who might be liable. Also does it state "fine" because Excel cannot issue fines.

If it was me I would certainly ignore totally the notice but it is entirely up to you to check legalities and decide on your actions.

[petayV8]

Pretty sure its owned by excel. Its definitely not owned by Sainsbury's, but i will find that out - thanks for the input. I know i should of ignored the notice but i couldnt help myself emailing them. All i gave was my reg so they could find the record which they already had anyway.

[dave1]

Check also if there is any signage relating to parking within the marked lines (I don't remember seeing these at supermarket car parks) and if no signage then how can you be issued with ticket for code 24?

[The-Acre]

Check also if there is any signage relating to parking within the marked lines (I don't remember seeing these at supermarket car parks) and if no signage then how can you be issued with ticket for code 24?

Absolutely. Bad signage is one of the main reasons that councils are having to cancel fines when it comes to being decided by an adjudicator.

[jpjsavage]

Measure the width of the space, the width of your car, and if the bush is overhanging the space measure the overhang as that reduces the available space for parking your car. Conduct all your correspondence with them in email AND letter, never phone, and make a reasonable case for owning a big car that has to fit within a potentially reduced sized space. You don't have to say why you want to park in that particular spot. That's your choice! I've got off a ticket for taking this reasonable approach with my local council (who had decided to count a half space where they'd installed a ticket machine as if it were a parking space).

[jpjsavage]

Sorry, meant to add, take photographs too of the reduced space, and your car in it.

[Bluesman]

Who owns the car park is neither here nor there.

All that has been issued to you is an Invoice.

The only people who can issue fines are Magistrates or Crown Courts.

They work on the principle that they will scare most people into paying by deluging you with official looking paperwork, but it isnt.

Remember all you have is an invoice and for them to get anywhere with it they will have to take you to the County Courts, this is your time to then get involved and believe you me the courts do not like these people.

They know this and rarely take anyone to court.

If you contact them at all just say you are in receipt of their invoice. Thank you.

There are lots of websites that will shown you the way to go. Mike

[matt-c]

Measure the width of the space, the width of your car, and if the bush is overhanging the space measure the overhang as that reduces the available space for parking your car. Conduct all your correspondence with them in email AND letter, never phone, and make a reasonable case for owning a big car that has to fit within a potentially reduced sized space. You don't have to say why you want to park in that particular spot. That's your choice! I've got off a ticket for taking this reasonable approach with my local council (who had decided to count a half space where they'd installed a ticket machine as if it were a parking space).

By all means do this if you're fighting a council imposed ticket. But don't even bother if it's a private one. Not worth the paper it's printed on. They may threaten to take you to court, but they won't as they know they can't win, and it's a waste of time and money. Just bin it; don't even acknowledge them.

[jpjsavage]

I'm not sure that approach would give me peace of mind.

[dave1]

There is a growing trend for parking areas at retail parks and supermarkets to be "contracted out" to private companies. Excel are one such company and do in fact take matters to court on some occasions although they don't always win. There is a case on BBC watchdog which makes interesting reading but am struggling to get the link to work.

[matt-c]

I've thrown away probably 5 or 6 park "fines" from private car parks, and never had ANY follow up from any of them. The only ones I've not been able to get out of paying were two in MacDonalds carparks (two separate occasions), but that's because both times, I was in a company vehicle, and the "fine" was sent to the lease company, who automatically pay it, then bill me for later (adding a nice admin charge onto it, for the pleasure). If they had been sent directly to me, I'd have filed them with the rest; in the bin.

I've only ever received two proper fines I couldn't get out of - 1 for parking with two wheels up on the kerb, and one for stopping in a bus lane. I did once recieve one that I got out of, fining me for parking on a double yellow. I contested it saying I was parked in a marked bay and had a legit parking ticket from the machine for the time of my stay. The council agree'd and dropped it. Turns out, when I went back to the same place a month or so later, I wasn't actually parked in a marked bay, I had indeed parked on the double yellows. But I thought I was in a bay, and thus bought the ticket and went to the shops! Silly me. Still, fine overturned, so all's well that ends well!

[ChrisIS200SportTTE]

Yeah what Matt says.... Bin it.

I got one in morrisons in Bath about 3 years ago. I left my car in there overnight as I'd been to the pub opposite and had one too many.

Did some research online and found out they have no legal power and all that was issued to me was an invoice as stated above. I binned the ticket and 3 years later I've heard nothing! :)

[petayV8]

Thanks for all replies. Very good info. I am taking matts approach and ignoring them, even though i did email them im not taking it any further. I did bin it, but because i was so mad just through it in that bush! sorry i dont ever litter normally! i was just so angry.

I have recently found out sainsbury's have told Excel to bugger off out of their car park and is now managed by someone else, apparently after them hassling there customers and staff over this type of crap. I also had a closer look at thier signs, there is no mention of having to park within the lines but does state there are terms and conditions. Now the car park i used at the time is still excel but is away from the Sainsbury's and is technically in the retail park, its just a quiet spot.... but anyway ill be using the sainsbury's car park from now on

[Lexmanic]

I work at Sainsbury's part time. I park in there car park which is privately owned by Excel Parking. I recived a code 24 fee for not parking with the lines provided!! I park right at the back in a very sparse part of the car park next to a bush. So i park over 2 spaces. My last car recieved dents, dings and scratches from trolly's, cars and those car washing carts. It was only a ford focus and it was in bad shape anyway so didnt really care, but theres no chance im letting my pride and joy subject that! I also have a parking permit in the window saying i work at sainsbury's. The security guard told me he even parks in the child bays because sainsburys and excel parking refuse to take responsibility for anyones vehicles.

Anyway im they want £100 fine, emailed them telling them im not paying and my reasons for it. What do you think they will say?

No matter what they might claim they ARE responsible for any damage cause either by their employees OR their agents Also when you say Excel "OWN' the CP do you mean OWN or manage? AND does the 'ticket' refer to a charge or 'penalty'?

For 1st class help go here http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

[dave1]

Measure the width of the space, the width of your car, and if the bush is overhanging the space measure the overhang as that reduces the available space for parking your car. Conduct all your correspondence with them in email AND letter, never phone, and make a reasonable case for owning a big car that has to fit within a potentially reduced sized space. You don't have to say why you want to park in that particular spot. That's your choice! I've got off a ticket for taking this reasonable approach with my local council (who had decided to count a half space where they'd installed a ticket machine as if it were a parking space).

The problem with that approach is that the IS200 can in no way be classed as a big car.

[Bluesman]

Thanks for all replies. Very good info. I am taking matts approach and ignoring them, even though i did email them im not taking it any further. I did bin it, but because i was so mad just through it in that bush! sorry i dont ever litter normally! i was just so angry.

I have recently found out sainsbury's have told Excel to bugger off out of their car park and is now managed by someone else, apparently after them hassling there customers and staff over this type of crap. I also had a closer look at thier signs, there is no mention of having to park within the lines but does state there are terms and conditions. Now the car park i used at the time is still excel but is away from the Sainsbury's and is technically in the retail park, its just a quiet spot.... but anyway ill be using the sainsbury's car park from now on

Well done. Doesn't matter which company they use to manage their car parks they are all the same. Supermarkets don't pay them they get their revenue by leaving litter on your car. Mike

[Derekosb]

The basis of these "Parking Charge Notices" the parking companies issue is the Law of Contract. As long as they have provided sufficient signage (and that is an important point) then, by parking your car, you are deemed to have read and understood the "terms & conditions" and if you breach the terms (usually by overstaying any free time or by not buying a ticket) you are "liable" for the charge issued.

The reason not many end up in court is the level of proof required on the management companies to establish they had sufficient signage and that the offender did indeed "breach" the terms of the "contract".

There is often a legitimate reason car parks have these "management companies" and it is usually to ensure that the owners of the car park are able to provide car parking facilities to their customers (or tenants, which is my experience) rather than their car park being filled all day with either local staff or park and ride commuters looking for all day free parking.

Not all companies manage purely on the basis of "revenue". As this is, as noted above, difficult to collect, many Landlords or owners pay a management fee as well.

Parking control is a necessary evil I'm afraid, however, as with many things, it can attract "shady" operators who will merely look to maximise their revenue. That is rarely what the owner of the car park wants (particularly in a retail environment) where all they want is to provide spaces for their customers to use, not people to abandon their cars all day.

Parking always seems to evoke strong emotional reactions, particularly when it is hard to find a space.

Derek

[Lexmanic]

Thanks for all replies. Very good info. I am taking matts approach and ignoring them, even though i did email them im not taking it any further. I did bin it, but because i was so mad just through it in that bush! sorry i dont ever litter normally! i was just so angry.

I have recently found out sainsbury's have told Excel to bugger off out of their car park and is now managed by someone else, apparently after them hassling there customers and staff over this type of crap. I also had a closer look at thier signs, there is no mention of having to park within the lines but does state there are terms and conditions. Now the car park i used at the time is still excel but is away from the Sainsbury's and is technically in the retail park, its just a quiet spot.... but anyway ill be using the sainsbury's car park from now on

Well done. Doesn't matter which company they use to manage their car parks they are all the same. Supermarkets don't pay them they get their revenue by leaving litter on your car. Mike

If they have taken over ownership it throws a different light on the matter

This particular firm lost a civil action because according to the judge not being the owners of the CP they had no standing to bring the action & their claim was dismissed with costs going to car owner. This is why a number of firms, including some NHS Trusts, are giving/selling their CP's to thse companies so that their actions can be deemed legal HOWEVER this is being challenged the argument being that the Trusts cannot sell the CP's as they have been built with public money so are not the Trusts to sell

[Lexmanic]

PS don't ignore them If it does go to court the judge will not be impressed. At least respond by telling them you have no intention of complying with their demands AND won't be entering into any further correspondence with them